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Some time ago I learned that Mother Goose is actually CODED HISTORY of actual people and events.

Other ppl have come up with the idea (and I've seen this in MANY places) that many old Myths and Legends are based on some kind of occurrence that really happened.


For instance:
Greek myth of Phaeton: Sun scorches the earth when Phaeton loses control of the chariot of the SUN. This may refer to astronomical phenomena that the ancient Greeks or their ancestors witnessed. Various places on Earth have vitrification of sand, stone, and other materials in places like the Gobi Desert, the Sahara, and many other places. Temperatures were hot enough to make a glassy mass pretty far down from the current surface. Possible that the vitrification was caused by meteorites--however the effect is similar to that seen of a NUCLEAR bomb exploding like in New Mexico (nuke tests). Many sites like this exist around the world. Records of strange fires in old forts, egyptian tombs, and old temples (including in Sumeria but in many other places as well) are not well explained by any known phenomena other than Nuclear energy (or something falling out of the sky).

The Celestial Dragon in myths often refers to astronomical phenomena but in some stories the references cannot be construed in this way.

There are the old English tales of Beowulf. Two of these stories (Beowulf & Grendel; Beowulf & the Dragon) I have been able to get my hands on for some time. There is also the persistent tale of St. George and the Dragon. The origin of these stories is uncertain but both monsters in the stories may be reference to humans and dinosaurs coexisting at the same time (at the very least, not all the dinosaurs may have died out at the time we thought they ALL did--there are reports out of Africa in the densest swamps of Apatosaurus-like creatures. This is a place infested by Tsetse flies and the area is generally too hazardous for any but the native population. Verification is therefore next to impossible at this time).

Dragons in China are pictured as having 3 toes. Incidentally, so do a lot of Dinosaurs. Coincidence?

Stories of Sea Monsters abound in literature--and only the Giant Squid seems to exist today in terms of scientific verification. (it was claimed that the rotting carcass the Japanese dragged up in 1979 of what appeared to be a pleisosaur was actually a shark, but the problem with that is that Sharks are 100% cartilage and have no bones. Reptiles have true bones) The Talmud ( a Jewish Book) tells of Leviathan as a giant fish or sea monster. It killed with a blow of its fins and breathed fire. (like a DRAGON!!! ) Now I guess it has yet to be worked out how a living creature can "breathe fire" since the phenomenon does not occur in any living creatures we know about. (Perhaps it is the reaction of two different chemicals, such as the "exhaust" explosion created by the Bombardier Beetle). Now where would such an idea come from? No matter where the literature comes from in all the stories of Dragons they are all in agreement in one thing--"Dragons" BREATHE FIRE.

The Arabian stories of the Roc bird--a monster capable of lifting 200 pounds--mirror other stories of giant birds. Many of the giant birds in these old stories conjure up images of the Pterodactlys that we read about in dinosaur books.

Ovid's METAMORPHOSES tells a gruesome tale of people turning into monsters at the will of the gods. This great transformation could well be a hint of the terrible consequences of the curse at the time of the Fall of Man (as enumerated in the Bible). Perhaps some rapid change--mutations--and quickly enough to be witnessed? Babylonian writings paint a similar picture:

Ummu-Khubur, who formed all things...has spawned monster-serpents, sharp of tooth and cruel of fang; With Poison instead of blood she has filled their bodies, Fierce monster, vipers she has clothed with terror, With splendor she has decked them, She has caused them to mount on high. Their bodies rear up, None can withstand their attack--from the Babylonian Creation Hymn

In the Greek myths it states that the Titans were a race spawned of a cross between gods and Men. This is interesting in that some theologians believe that during the time before the Flood that demons actually crossed with human beings to produce the wicked giants of the time. That is not a widespread opinion since the translation of the phrase "Sons of God going in unto the Daughters of Men" can be read in more ways than one. Traditionally it has been interpreted that Believers married Unbelievers and the Unbelievers won out in the battle of the family religion. On the other hand, the more untraditional view is that "Sons of God" means fallen angels (since the good angels would NEVER do such and such if it was possible) and that this contributed to the corruption of mankind. There are problems with this interpretation, however the fact that the Greek stories have a phenomenon that might parallel that interpretation is very intriguing to say the least.

Man remembers and combines but does not "create."

...it's amazing how our species mythologizes natural phenomena.

Originally posted by Sheba


Dragons in China are pictured as having 3 toes. Incidentally, so do a lot of Dinosaurs. Coincidence?

This has nothing to do with your post, sorry, just wanted to say...

I think the number of toes on a dragon in Chinese art has something to do with the status of the person they were done for, or something... can't remember... emperor's dragon has five...

Um... that's it...

Originally posted by Sheba
(it was claimed that the rotting carcass the Japanese dragged up in 1979 of what appeared to be a pleisosaur was actually a shark, but the problem with that is that Sharks are 100% cartilage and have no bones. Reptiles have true bones)

It was a shark alright. Nobody saw any bones, and the sample a fisherman took from the carcass' back is what you'd expect from a shark. Too bad they threw it overboard after snapping a few photos, we'd have one myth less to confuse people.

The Talmud ( a Jewish Book) tells of Leviathan as a giant fish or sea monster. It killed with a blow of its fins and breathed fire. (like a DRAGON!!! ) Now I guess it has yet to be worked out how a living creature can "breathe fire" since the phenomenon does not occur in any living creatures we know about. (Perhaps it is the reaction of two different chemicals, such as the "exhaust" explosion created by the Bombardier Beetle). Now where would such an idea come from? No matter where the literature comes from in all the stories of Dragons they are all in agreement in one thing--"Dragons" BREATHE FIRE.

Even though I think that's rubbish, in all fairness I should point out that simple breathing could be mistaken as "smoking". I saw a BBC documentary about dinosaurs where they used this nifty computer animation to make them seem really life like, and one thing I noticed was that they kept "snorting" (sorry if I don't know the proper english word:)), and if a primitive man saw that he just might think that it's smoke, and where there is smoke there's fire...

At least that's more plausible than assuming dragons actually breath fire, that's very difficult to arrange biologically.

The Arabian stories of the Roc bird--a monster capable of lifting 200 pounds--mirror other stories of giant birds. Many of the giant birds in these old stories conjure up images of the Pterodactlys that we read about in dinosaur books.

Hmm, to me they just conjure images of giant birds. I just don't see pterodactyl lifting 200 pounds, no way.

Ovid's METAMORPHOSES tells a gruesome tale of people turning into monsters at the will of the gods. This great transformation could well be a hint of the terrible consequences of the curse at the time of the Fall of Man (as enumerated in the Bible). Perhaps some rapid change--mutations--and quickly enough to be witnessed?

Then why did it stop? How did the guys who recorded this event survive? Ovid is a rather recent source as well...

Ummu-Khubur, who formed all things...has spawned monster-serpents, sharp of tooth and cruel of fang; With Poison instead of blood she has filled their bodies, Fierce monster, vipers she has clothed with terror, With splendor she has decked them, She has caused them to mount on high. Their bodies rear up, None can withstand their attack--from the Babylonian Creation Hymn

Sounds more like "intelligent design" rather than random mutations.

In the Greek myths it states that the Titans were a race spawned of a cross between gods and Men.

Nope. Titans were the elder gods which the Olympians overthrew, before humans were around. I'm not quite sure how the greek mythology handled first humans, but I know the Prometheus who became the protector of mankind was originally a Titan who swtiched sides. But anyway, if there is something in Greek myths that remind you of biblical creation, I'm afraid Titans isn't it.

Man remembers and combines but does not "create."

Just if some myths were partially based on real events doesn't mean all myths are... Do you think Transformers must be real because no human could come up with something as wacky as giant robots that change into vehicles and household appliances, hmm?:p

Most myths are true, but the governments of the world don't want you to know that because it would cause mass chaos, orgies, and the releasing of monkeys from zoos.

Originally posted by Stuart Denyer
...it's amazing how our species mythologizes natural phemomena.

Funny... I was thinking something very similar.

Of course, I was thinking it in normal-speak...

well it is interesting that yes indeed astronomical phenomena gets stuck in myths as something else.

(and no I wasn't trying to see if some of all this proved something. most of it's just an interesting read)

For instance in the Illiad, Homer tells that the goddess of the moon was warned not to battle Mars but to leave the task to the Earth. But the goddess got involved anyway and was smote on the breast and her heart melted. It is startling to read that in 1973 there was an article by none other than Isaac Asimov, stating that the surface of the moon was once heated quite strongly causing low-melting compounds to boil off, leaving high-melting compounds. This explanation is offered to explain the larger proportion of glassy material on the moon as the surface melted and solidified again. The evidence seems to be moon-wide.

Could it be possible that Homer told of eye-witness accounts, that men on earth saw the firey event happen on the Moon? Similar blasts of heat have evidence on earth.

I've always liked mythology by way of the values and ideas they convey, rather than bother myself with whether they actually happened or not. I guess it helps dating the myths if they incorporate a stellar event or something like that, but that doesn't change the meaning of the stories.

Gilgamesh's search for immortality is one interesting theme. As if biblical creation story and fall of man. But most of all I think I can relate to the norse mythology... those guys know that when ragnorok comes, they'll be kicking the bucket, but they're still going to give it a shot. "It's not whether you win or lose, it's how you play the game."