Allardyce Gone.

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Cliffjumper
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Allardyce Gone.

Post by Cliffjumper »

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/footbal ... 179847.stm

Wow, that's actually a bit of a shock. Very short-sighted of Newcastle too... I mean, they gave born losers with very little pedigree (Roeder, who managed to relegate a ludicrously talented West Ham; Souness, who single-handedly demolished Liverpool) a longer run than that. It's stupid, even by their standards - Allardyce didn't just walk into Bolton and take them to the UEFA cup... I mean, who have Newcastle actually got lined up to replace him? I really don't think Shearer would be a decent coach - the man's career was built on selfishness, and if his punditry's anything to go by, he has very poor tactical grasp of the game. And he's only likely to inspire the Geordies in the squad... TBH, if Shearer comes in, I can see Newcastle being genuine relegation candidates, especially as his first step's likely to be to freeze out all the Allardyce signings and try to get the team to play attacking football (which they don't have the players for...). Sam might be obnoxious and a little arrogant, but I can't help feeling sorry for him. Imagine what he could have done with the sort of money Souness was given. TBH, I think they deserve to go down after the short shrift they've given Allardyce.

On a more general note, is it me, or does this seem to stem from a weird sort of media whispering war? It's difficult to describe, but it's a bit like Pardew at West Ham last year, a case of some hack just rolling a stone down a hill with the idea that he's not up to scratch, and it just picks up so much moss that the pressure and constant talk in itself seems to actually make the manager's position untenable.

What now for Sam, do we think? I can see his next job being in the Premier Division, to be honest, rather than obscurity. I can actually see him going to Boro if they get shot of Southgate, TBH.
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Halfshell
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Post by Halfshell »

It's about right for Newcastle, isn't it?

Injuries and poor form lead to a bad start to the season. People get antsy. January rolls around, the guy gets axed. New manager gets brought in and given a shedload of money to throw around in the transfer window. Glorious new dawn, guy walks on water, gets them out of trouble. Comfortable midtable finish. All eyes on the campaign ahead.

And repeat to fade.
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Post by Cliffjumper »

The thing is, you'd think they'd have learned by now... Mind, I remember reading somewhere (probably on GU) about the way a new manager always inspires a few good results, even if after a month it turns to manure (Chris Hutchings, Roeder, Souness, Megson, Stuart Pearce, McLaren with England and so on). Maybe Newcastle are just going to fire their manager every month and make a play for the title? Only sensible explanation I can think of.

More seriously, I realise he wasn't the current owners' choice, but you have to wonder why they'd persevere, and then fire him mid-window. I mean, by the time it's settled down, the next manager's going to have a fortnight to buy in whatever he needs... So it'll be overpaying for guys who've had a good three months wiht little long-term plan as they just need bodies. Didn't exactly work out last time they tried that, did it?
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Post by Halfshell »

I hope they get relegated.

Part for poetic justice. Part out of spite. But mostly because of the fact that they bought their way into the Prem, tried to buy the title and failed, and since then have spent all their time throwing the GDP of several Eastern European countries at mediocrity. Yet their fans still proclaim them to be title material.
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Post by Cliffjumper »

Mmmm. Oddly, as I was saying in that there thread the other day, because Newcastle were in their pre-Keegan rut when I started getting really into football, I've always considered them a smaller club punching above their weight. And, TBH, a few seasons under Keegan aside, they've not really done much better than a host of clubs, but with a lot more fuss. I mean, remember when they fired Robson for missing out on the CL spot? Silly, really, wasn't it?

TBH, Allardyce has been let down by the players, and unless the new manager is top-drawer (and how many top bods are going to jump for such a fickle club that's in such a state?), they're the sort whose heads will drop if they get dragged into the relegation dogfight (like the overpaid wasters Leeds had in their last year).
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Post by MikeB »

I can't say as I feel that sorry for him, what with the previously mentioned obnoxiousness and arrogance, but I do agree that the timing stinks, unless they've already tapped up another manager and have potential signings already being instigated.

Shearer's surely too smart to take this job on, he's Newcastle's favoured son at the moment, why ruin that with an impossible job?

For some reason I can see Allardyce ending up in a different country given that the only Premier league club remotely likely to sack the manager between now and year end would be middlesbrough (I'm not including Liverpool in this as I don't want the depressing thought of 'Big Sam' taking the helm there), and I don't even think that's actually going to happen.
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Post by Cliffjumper »

Yeh - if Liverpool do give Rafa the elby-bow, it'll be for someone guaranteed to bring more success - basically Mourinho. I think the owners have made their point with him, and will now sit back and see how he goes this year (the title's already a write-off, but see if he can close the gap... why get someone else in and risk almost-guaranteed CL football?).

Sam's sort-of missed the boat - pretty much any of Wigan, Brum, Derby or us would probably have gone for him if he'd been avaliable - maybe even Bolton would have had him back, though that would have been dicy for both parties. Oddly enough, I can see him washing up at Sheffield United. Not sure why, I can just picture it.

Southgate I reckon is fairly safe unless Boro totally implode. Gibson's a patient, sensible bloke, and he's likely to think that if Southgate can get a team to play like they did against Arsenal, there's got to be some serious talent in there somewhere. Besides, I kinda want it to all work out for Boro, despite them being a bit dull (and quite likely to survive at the expense of Fulham) - they've got a level-headed chairman (possibly the only one in the division...), Southgate seems like such a nice bloke and they always seem to be bringing homegrown players through.
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Post by MikeB »

Originally posted by Cliffjumper
Oddly enough, I can see him washing up at Sheffield United. Not sure why, I can just picture it.
I could actually imagine that. Robson won't last all that long, given that he's not managed to do anything of note at any of the other clubs he's ever managed, especially post middlesbrough, where he didn't have the player rep or the money to spend any more. It's a club tailor made for Allardyce really, Bolton mk2 so to speak...
Southgate I reckon is fairly safe unless Boro totally implode. Gibson's a patient, sensible bloke, and he's likely to think that if Southgate can get a team to play like they did against Arsenal, there's got to be some serious talent in there somewhere. Besides, I kinda want it to all work out for Boro, despite them being a bit dull (and quite likely to survive at the expense of Fulham) - they've got a level-headed chairman (possibly the only one in the division...), Southgate seems like such a nice bloke and they always seem to be bringing homegrown players through.


Completely agree. I really want Southgate to do well, even though I kind of suspect he might not, and Middlesbrough have a good track record of keeping faith with their managers.


Re Liverpool, if all this messing around means we fail to sign Mascherano then that's a real blow frankly, especially if it means Sissoko gets more games, the man's a bigger donkey than Carlton Palmer ever was. If we could keep Masher and maybe get another winger of genuine current class (Babel's one for the future, and maybe even someone who'll get converted to playing upfront) all we'd need then is to actually play Peter Crouch instead of Dirk "Hard Working" Kuyt once in a while and we'll be ok.
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Post by Cliffjumper »

I think Liverpool have a decent chance of pipping Chelsea to third... on paper. You seem to have an unfortunate habit of dropping a lot of points you perhaps shouldn't, but on the day can give any other team a real game... The inconsistency must be infuriating.

Robson must have one of the biggest budgets in the Championship, and (I think, I must confess I didn't pay that much attention) pretty much the same squad that got promoted nearly stayed up (Phil Jagielka was the only big out, wasn't he?), with the addition of Beattie (who may be past his best, but could probably command a starting place with half a dozen Premier outfits). He really should be walking the Championship on paper. He's one of those blokes that you just can't see how he keeps getting work. He spaffed all that money at Boro, did a lot of damage to Bradford, largely kept West Brom up by fluke (us beating Norwich 6-0 was a very bizarre result, and Norwich were by far the better team over the season but irritatingly suffered from playing football) then legged it when they did go down. And yet he still gets work at a fairly big club.

Hmmm, maybe Newcastle will give him a call.

Megson and Souness are other ones who somehow always seem to come around in a job, however shocking they were in the last one. Megson's bizarre promotion run earlier in the year was just unbeliveable.
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Post by Halfshell »

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/footbal ... 172817.stm

Well, obviously giving Sam the boot has stopped the rot.

Like the use of the word "stunned" in reference to 'arry not wanting the job. Gives a good insight into the mentality of the average barcode.

Why would he possibly not want it? Maybe because he's awake?
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Post by redman prime »

nice to see the magpies bounce back today, strong performance for the interim guy....
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Post by Cliffjumper »

Hey, they played it on the floor a bit, though. That Magpies said they'd take that over results.

Ha ha...

Personally I think part of Allardyce's problem with the Newcastle fans is that he'd effectively been humiliating them with little ol' Bolton for years. I think he'd probably made too many enemies with being such a fortright bastard over the past few years that a fair few people wanted him to fail, which wouldn't have helped. At least today's result should show people the problem wasn't simply Sam; they can't even blame his signings, as it's not like he shipped out half-a-dozen better players in the summer.

Not even remotely suprised about Redknapp. Partly because he probably had something to do with the betting spree in the first place, but also while he may be a mercenary ****, he's also a bit canny. He's in a nice comfort zone with Portsmouth, whose fans will be happy as long as they finish higher than Saints. I mean, if Pompey fall away to 17th it'll be all "Well, African Nations Cup is wot dun us in, init? Small club on the coast. Good ride while it lasted, seven goals against Reading, when was the last time you had an England defender at little ol' Pompey?". If the club ricochets around midtable till he retires he'll be considered to have done pretty well.
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Post by redman prime »

Originally posted by Cliffjumper
If the club ricochets around midtable till he retires he'll be considered to have done pretty well.


Which is why he said hell no to that god-forsaken job up north.

Heard on the soccer channel here that redknapp was going to fly up daily in a private jet form his house on the coast.
REALLY? that's ****ing ridiculous....

too much damn money in sports, why cant' they make a good living and lower ticket prices?
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Post by CounterPunch »

I read an article on the BBC site in which a close friend of Redknapp (he is in the profession, cant remember if it was a chairman of a team or one of Harrys former assistants) stated he thought Harry was at a cross roads in his football career and he believed Harry would take the job as he wants the challenge of managing a big club....

Whoa....

A big club? Newcastle? Maybe a few years back, not at the moment though. Harry Redknapp is on to a winner at Portsmouth, as Cliffy said, people will be happy with Portsmouth no matter where they finish, for me it just seems strange theyre still in the Premiership and doing very well.

Just looking at things and to put it in to context, people look at Portsmouth's place and say that theyre doing well. Whereas Newcastle, who I would say are on fairly the same level at the moment, are 2 points behind, 2 places behind and are managerless because of their place.

I can understand why people want success, Newcastle have had some very good finishes in the history of the Premiership (2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th) but theyre dreadfully inconsistent, one year they could be 3rd and the next theyd be 13th, the people calling the shots should have realised this before giving Big Sam the boot, they may be in 11th, but for Newcastle thats about average half the time.
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Post by Cliffjumper »

Fully agree. Way I see it is there are the Big Four, then the solid UEFA teams (Spurs, Everton, Villa, possibly Man. City) and then next there's the group who, given a good season or a big drop in form for one of the above, might sneak a UEFA place - Blackburn, Pompey, West Ham. At best, since Robson left, Newcastle have been in the third group. And TBH whoever manages them they're highly likely to stay there, unless a lot more money avaliable for a good coach - whatever you say about Allardyce, he's certainly a better manager than at least his two predecessors, and yet when he arrives the purse strings got tightened... Yeh, I know, fat Freddy left, it's just ironic.

According to the tabs, it'll be a Keegan/Shearer dream team at Newcastle. So the team will be suicidally attack-minded, but do its' tackling in the opposition's six yard box, using the elbow as its' main weapon. It'd have half a chance if Newcastle had a single attacking player with any particular skill. Obviously Owen, but he's always injured. Erm, Ameobi?
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Post by redman prime »

Graeme Sounness

Hasn't happened yet, but for someone to politik for a job that most sensible people wouldn't want.. well, sounds like a winner to me.
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Post by CounterPunch »

Souness was god awful, if he is rehired then Newcastle deserve to be demoted and never re-promoted
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Post by Cliffjumper »

Christ all-cocking-mighty.

http://football.guardian.co.uk/News_Sto ... 90,00.html

Erm, wow. My early feeling is that this will be an utter disaster. Should be fun to watch.

Best bit: Sparky's dodged a bullet, which is also good for my "2nd team" :)

EDIT: And according to the comments on one of the Guardian blogs, that could be the thing that finally belts Newcastle's one halfway decent outfield player, Owen, out of the club. Shay Giben will be sidelined by February just from sheer exhaustion...
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Post by MikeB »

it's got the potential to be a disastrous appointment really hasn't it? If keegan doesn't get pretty major amounts of money i can't see anything except further mediocrity and a short tenure as manager.

Presumably owen leaving would be because he doesn't rate kev, not the other way round. Can't see where he'd go though, who out of the "big clubs" are going to want to spend money on the biggest injury risk since darren anderton.
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Post by Cliffjumper »

Nah, I can see him ending up at another big money chaser - Spurs or Man City or something.

I forgot about Damien Duff... but Kev can't build a team around him, surely? Thing is, when Kev had his run, the league was totally different - from memory, Man. Utd were about the only MASSIVE MASSIVE team in the division, with Arsenal/Blackburn/Leeds/Villa/Norwich/Newcastle all having their little challenges here and there. They were never really a solid top 4 team, they just had a couple of years where everything clicked... And now, the top 4's locked out. I mean, look at Man City - it's taken a lot of money, a canny manager (with a good understanding of not losing games) and a lot of luck to keep them within touching distance. Everton has a very synched team who are very used to each other, and able to rind out results, and they're only in and around the UEFA places. Spurs have spent a fortune, Blackburn are stuffed with talent (Keegan would love to have Bentley, Pedersen and Santa Cruz, but Hughes is smart enough to put Mokoena, Warnock, Friedel Samba and Nelsen behind them), Villa are monied and so on. There's just no room, really.

Keegan's going to have real trouble recruiting the sort of players he wants - pros are likely to be even more cynical about a return to 1995 as we are. Personally I think Newcastle are currently about where they should be, and I just can't see how Keegan's going to drag them above that. I mean, people criticise Sam's signings, and they aren't much cop - but then what realistic alternatives were there?

I can see it turning out like his Man City tenure, TBH. No absolute disasters (I can't see them being relegated), but lots of big-money flops due to desperation at not having the pull of bigger teams, lots of vague disappointment. I kind-of feel sorry for the bloke - after his antics with England, Fulham and City, Newcastle is the one managment job he left with a fairly respectable reputation, and he's probably going to ruin that. I mean, wait until a few games have gone and he's having trouble comprehending why the likes of N'zogia and Ameobi aren't playing like Rob Lee and Les Ferdinand...
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