League of Extraordinary Gentlemen: Black Dossier discussion

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Terome
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League of Extraordinary Gentlemen: Black Dossier discussion

Post by Terome »

Any chance that any of you lot have got your hands on a super top-secret-illegal copy as I have (well, actually it's not illegal to sell down here) and we can all have a good chat about it? I've tried gabbering to my friends and family about how utterly ridiculously great it is, but they can only respond with a faint bemusement. Though my dad did quite like the Coronation Street reference on the first page.

Will TFArchive be my rock? Please?
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Denyer
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Post by Denyer »

Montage of bits of comments from elsewhere...

I'd recommend it. Probably a lot less so for people who haven't read the first two book, as this is very much a 2.5 and a scrapbook of very fun ideas (and lots of stories) rather than one big story -- but provided you have, this is enjoyable to dip into repeatedly, for things like the Lovecraft/Wodehouse mix.

There's a lot of the book that feels like self-indulgence, particularly the end section. The thing I'm most surprised about is that after so many delays it wasn't a disappointment. It's also not a bad rounding-off point if Century doesn't appear.

Leaving in the golliwog with his roar and tacking on a huge phallus stereotype didn't stand out any more than leaving in Drummond with his multitude of bigotries but a few shreds of virtue and stand against the amoral next generation. More "it was in the fiction, so not unexpected in a mash-up of the fiction." Not stuff to give to kids without impressing upon them the context in which it was created, but also a huge block of history that happened.

The first scene Bunter felt a bit too forced with the references, though I guess that might be because I remember the stories quite well rather than each name/reference lighting up dusty memories (or summaries. Wikipedia's great, but I really must get around to reading the originals of a lot of stuff I tend to look up.)

Absolutely loved Prospero's "We are the tales ... who from us substance stole?" -- I'm a sucker for sententious, regularly-metred dialogue and it made up for the more playful Shakespearean bit earlier.

I think it comes down to Moore not getting any younger, and a bit more sentimental these days. Though I hope the next one won't disappoint either. :)

Particularly liked the interview where he pointed out that those annotating were coming up with a bunch of references he hadn't intended, but still made sense...
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Terome
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Post by Terome »

I've got to say, it's put a *lot* of books on my to-read list. Having plucked up my courage and finally read the Paradyse bit, I'm pretty keen to delve into the Keroac / Burroughs / Kesey crowd. My girlfriend's apparently got a few of those Upton Golliwogg books at her mum's house which I definitely want to read. I've got a radio production of The Tempest ticking down on uTorrent and I've got to find a copy of Orlando Furiso somewhere (And Orlando The Marmalade Cat, which was a reference that particularly tickled me). I feel that I've absorbed so many Lovecraft references and allusions by this point in my life that I don't really need to actually read any of his books but my conscience prickles at the conceit.

I read the thing while off on a camping trip so my access to Wikipedia and Nevins' site was cut off and I was pulling my hair out over stuff like Billy Bunter (thought he was from the Dandy, but turns out I was thinking about Winker Watson) and Harry Lime. To my utmost shame, I didn't get the 'Doctor No' joke either.

The way the timeline's been all jiggered about is really quite fascinating. It's very Vonnegut to have the entirety of a plotline given to you in a paragraph (like the business with George VI's coronation or Captain Nemo's death) and then have all the details of the plotline meted out over the rest of the book and beyond through incidental references and little mentions from different perspectives. The teases of Captain Nemo being present at the Blazing World long after his death are particularly delicious. It's either his daughter or Jenny Diver or something, but not knowing for sure is a strangely pleasant feeling.

Even though Moore's conceits (people ****ing, time being meaningless, fiction being real) are becoming more and more shopworn, he's still quite far from falling into the Heinlein humdrum of repeating the themes without innovation. Though I'm almost certain that his apparent desire to be Orlando is only going to become more pronounced.

Can't wait for Volume 3 to trickle out. Looking forward to the Brecht stuff and Moriarty's predicted paranormal horror fest eating the world.
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Post by Denyer »

Yeah, seems to be coming along nicely.

http://www.comp.dit.ie/dgordon/League/loeg0028.html
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Post by Cliffjumper »

Black Dossier... I quite enjoyed, even if great big piles of it went over my head (hey, I was reading X-Men comics five years ago, give ma break) and I have a tendancy to glaze over during prose.

Only bit I thought was a bit daft was Allan and the Fountain of Youth, or more specifically the postcard Mina sent M, which comes within a few words of "We couldn't find the fountain of youth so Allan died, thankfully at the same point I found his son". Unless I'm missing something and the intent was for that bit to be utterly unbelievable.

Took me a while for Emma Knight to click. Bunter was mildly terrifying... I'm scanning various Fleetway annuals ATM before ebaying, if anyone wants me to put a 1960s Bunter strip to plate for a little companion piece let me know.

Annotations irritate me.
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Post by Denyer »

Intended to be in keeping with similarly ridiculous conceits in popular fiction (characters turning out to be related to each other being plot twists, etc) at the time it's set?
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Post by Cliffjumper »

Possibly, though IMO that one jolts me out of the story a bit too much.
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Post by inflatable dalek »

Emma Knight? That's got to be fairly close to the wire in terms of copyright surely? No doubt Studio Canal don't have a direct trademark on the name but it can't be as easy as calling a married woman by her maiden name to get around using a character owned by someone else can it? Or would this be one of those reasons this hasn't gotten a proper UK release?
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Post by Cliffjumper »

Probably the latter. Making her Drummond's daughter, look nothing like Diana Rigg and act very little like Emma Peel probably gives them a fair bit of plausible deniability too.
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Post by Denyer »

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Post by Cliffjumper »

Outstanding!
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Post by Hound »

Y'know it's going to be like 2 years before that comes out in tpb. That being when I'll buy it. So you guys can't mention it at all till then and will have to be ready to talk about it lots when that time arrives.
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Terome
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Post by Terome »

Yes. Unlike the majority of the Transformers stuff, I am severely reluctant to graze on previews and interviews and oh my god I am so excited about Century.
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Post by Denyer »

Hound wrote:Y'know it's going to be like 2 years before that comes out in tpb.
Three installments of 80 pages each is basically three slim trades.
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Post by StarscreamX »

Why does everyone seem to treat this thing as if it's hard to get hold of? Where I live book stores and comic shops have it on full display. Is it banned out of the United Kingdom or something? I've seen people on various forums talking about how they couldn't get a hold of it because of "legal issues" which I just don't get.

But anyway, I enjoyed parts of it at least. The "What ho, God's of the Abyss" section was pure genius, simply for giving us a Cthulhu tale starring Bertie Wooster and Jeeves. It perfectly captures the feel of the Jeeves and Wooster books, while just happening to feature eldritch abominations and Gussy getting his head sawn open, Sylar-style (And not suffering any ill affects from losing his brain)

I always enjoyed the scenes of "Jimmy" Bond getting what was coming to him. Especially Mina smacking him around. Having never liked the James Bond film/book series (Highly overrated in my opinion) I got a good chuckle out of that.

However the plot that tied the whole thing together seemed a little thin compared to the first two volumes. It seemed more like an excuse to cram in as many famous and obscure characters as Moore could.

I'm looking forward to the new volume coming out soon though. Already put it on order from my comic shop
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Post by Cliffjumper »

It wasn't released outside the US due to legal issues. Therefore, yes, it is hard to get hold of for anyone who doesn't live in America.
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Post by Denyer »

StarscreamX wrote:I've seen people on various forums talking about how they couldn't get a hold of it because of "legal issues" which I just don't get.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Black_ ... gal_issues
http://forum.newsarama.com/showthread.php?t=124381

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Post by Cliffjumper »

As a curiosity, is there any word on which of the myriad copyright violations caused it yet? Was it Jimmy for being just like the one in the books? I'm hoping the same thing doesn't clobber Century...

Actually, that's an exaggeration... as long as it comes out and gets put to a scanner plate by someone somewhere, that's enough for me.
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Post by Denyer »

AFAIK, the cancellation has more to do with DC management hating Moore than legal problems -- elements were checked as it was being put together. It's possible something genuinely came up later, but more likely internal politics.

It's cheap to import, you just won't see it on shelves over here. Much.
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Post by Cliffjumper »

Oh, I did see Black Dossier on a shelf here in an independant. For eighty quid...

I can buy DC management hating Moore, TBH - it's only fair, after all. Anyone like to put an advance bet on what exactly he falls out with Top Shelf over?
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