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What the Hell is this about?

Why is Ingrid Pitt going for a Jamaican accent?

Why did they let Mike Yates survive being doodlebugged?

Why is the nominal heroic lead such a ****?

Why was Jo Grant able to live to this sort of age without slamming her head in a fridge or something?

Why didn't anyone just stop Barry Letts?

People may know my trenchant views on why I shouldn't pay for Doctor Who DVDs, but another big factor is that it's often utter, utter shite. The Mutants is rubbish as well.

One of the ones I've never seen. Plot synopses make it sound insanely bad though. But then I thought The Damons was terrible as well so what do I know?

I'm going to put this here because it's as good a place as any, but I've done three McCoys today and have some questions:

- If the Dalek Emperor is actually Davros in a disguise so ridiculous not even Ainley's Master would go for it, what the hell was that thing in Parting of the Ways?

- If Skaro got torched, where did the Master get executed in Doctor Who vs The Horror of Eric Roberts?

Battlefield was fun. I especially like the notion that the Brig was replaced by Female Lister.

inflatable dalek wrote:One of the ones I've never seen. Plot synopses make it sound insanely bad though. But then I thought The Damons was terrible as well so what do I know?

The Daemons is shit... All of Letts' hippy Buddhist diatribes are. The Time Monster has something like six different plots, and they're all rubbish. About halfway through Delgado (Delgado, who gave his all to toss like Terror of the Autons, Colony in Space and Axos) just gives up. If you watch him, he can barely believe what he's saying.

Halfshell wrote: - If the Dalek Emperor is actually Davros in a disguise so ridiculous not even Ainley's Master would go for it, what the hell was that thing in Parting of the Ways?

The Dalek Emperor - Davros is presumably just impersonating him (was the thing in Evil of the Daleks the Emperor as well?). I could dress up as Tony Blair if I wanted to, but Tony Blair could still exist... Davros is in charge of just one of at least two Dalek factions at that point, and given their mental chronology (which was a bit mental before the Time Wars, what with Genesis possibly altering everything screened before then, even if Day of the Daleks hadn't), there are so many possible explanations it isn't even funny (remember, the white Daleks go from arresting Davros in Revelation to being his mob in Remembrance, without onscreen explanation).

If Skaro got torched, where did the Master get executed in Doctor Who vs The Horror of Eric Roberts?

Skaro before it got destroyed?

Battlefield was fun. I especially like the notion that the Brig was replaced by Female Lister.

Battlefield's awesome. You can pick all sorts of holes in some bits (notably the effects, which stand out because most of the McCoy stuff is rather well made), but it's much greater than the sum of its' parts. And I'm kinda glad Courtney never came back to the TV show, as it's such a great last outing - bantering with a mad maybe French chopper dolly, "Get off my world!", decking the Doctor...

Halfshell wrote: - If the Dalek Emperor is actually Davros in a disguise so ridiculous not even Ainley's Master would go for it, what the hell was that thing in Parting of the Ways?

Before he came back properly the most popular theory was the emperor in the Eccles show (and possibly even back in Evil of the Daleks if it was set after) actually was Davros. Obviously not the case now (decanonising the McGann BF audio where he turns fully into the emperor) so it's likely either what was in charge of the renegade Daleks given a grand title or something Davros created especially to co-ordinate things in the time war.

- If Skaro got torched, where did the Master get executed in Doctor Who vs The Horror of Eric Roberts?

The Master was executed before Skaro's destruction (it being about a Time Machine and all) is the most popular theory. Though if the Time War had started by this point (and there's nothing to say it hadn't, and if the Master was working for the Time Lords it'd explain why the Doctor would be bothered to go get his body) Skaro could have been retroactively saved and then blown up again repeatedly.

Battlefield was fun. I especially like the notion that the Brig was replaced by Female Lister.

Shame.

My memory's surprisingly sketchy (I watched Remembrance religiously for a couple of years and then haven't watched in a while), doesn't the Hand of Omega travel forward in time as it destroys Skaro, so it's not, like, wiping out the 1963 version of Skaro (which might have created a paradox assuming Davros appeared later in the planet's history), but the one contemporeanous to the time-travelling Davros and Daleks? Or was that some sort of fan thing?

There is a over dubbed nicely vague "Entering Skaro timeframe" style line that's clearly there to try and stop people worrying about that sort of thing. It didn't of course. Assuming all prior Dalek stories are still part of the timeline (and haven't been altered by all the time travel) it must be destroyed at some point after the year 4000.

Riiiight. I've not seen Day of the Daleks, so assumed that was the first appearance of the Emperor. Logic wins through!

Though there were massive bits of Remembrance that I just didn't get (The Doctor intuiting that it was the Daleks and that there were two sets). Not that it's gonna keep me awake at night.

Cliffjumper wrote:decking the Doctor...

Why couldn't he have done that to Pertwee? WHY COULDN'T HE HAVE DONE THAT TO PERTWEE????!!

The Seventh Doctor... you've just kinda got to assume that he knows what he's doing and ride with it to a certain extent. The guy's got plans, a shitlist, a time machine and access to some insane ancient Gallifreyan weaponry, and can basically do anything he likes. And yet the new stuff asks us to think he's a bit of a nutter because Martha joins UNIT...

Watch Fenric, it's the best one.

And the Brigadier really should have decked Pertwee. I'm not sure what exactly Letts and Dicks thought they were doing, but it seems the third Doctor just goes out of his way to be rude and idiotic, doesn't he?

The thing I hate most about the incarnation is probably the humiliation of perfectly nice 1970s human techies with a load of patronising bullshit. It's like when he's talking to Max from Deathwatch about his paper and he's going "No, I mean your work was very good for the age you live in", and you can tell Max from Deathwatch is just thinking "You mad, patronising ****, what the **** are you talking about, dressed like a paedo?".

The name-dropping comes a close second, though - what exactly does twattering on about Nelson or whoever achieve? It just makes everyone think he's a mad wanker. Even Jo probably thinks he's a bit of a dick, as I don't think she met anyone remotely interesting on her trips

Halfshell wrote:Riiiight. I've not seen Day of the Daleks, so assumed that was the first appearance of the Emperor. Logic wins through!

The Emperor isn't in Day (where they're lead by a blinging Gold Dalek), Cliffy just means that was a time paradox story that could well have altered some of the Dalek history we already knew about. The Emperor's only prior TV appearence had been in the now missing Troughton Evil of the Daleks, as part of their last grand hurah before being all killed and wiped out forever never to be seen again so Nation could sell them to American TV. Writer David Whitaker had created the Emperor before that though in the Dalek comic strips. Apparently Terry Nation stopped a emperor appearing on at least one occasion prior to Remembrance as he hadn't created the character, I guess he relented there because it was really Davros.

Though there were massive bits of Remembrance that I just didn't get (The Doctor intuiting that it was the Daleks and that there were two sets). Not that it's gonna keep me awake at night.

The Doctor knew there were going to be Dalek's, but he didn't know about the two factions till he saw them did he? For all people go on about him as the master chess player 7's scheme's almost always go wrong pretty much from the off. The idea of Hartnell have nicked all the Time Lords biggest and most dangerous weapons so he can twat a load of monsters is strangely apt for him though.

Why couldn't he have done that to Pertwee? WHY COULDN'T HE HAVE DONE THAT TO PERTWEE????!!

My favourite Brig moment in Battlefield is one that didn't even make it to broadcast, his reaction to the ashes of his pilot ("I want a full burial for those") on the DVD version is just lovely.

Cliffjumper wrote:Watch Fenric, it's the best one.

On at the mo.

And the Brigadier really should have decked Pertwee. I'm not sure what exactly Letts and Dicks thought they were doing, but it seems the third Doctor just goes out of his way to be rude and idiotic, doesn't he?

The Doctor in general's always had a bit of a rude, arrogant and patronising streak... the difference with Pertwee is that there's absolutely no other aspects to his personality whatsoever.

Most of the time he's contrary for no other reason than the sheer sake of it (Claws of Axos is a great example, he spends the opening episode doing nothing but making sly digs at the Brig for wanting to destroy the aliens in case they're evil... wanders around being all smug and cottoning onto them being more than they seem... then when it turns out that, shock horror, they are in fact teh evilz, well it all just sort of gets forgotten and he's the hero. Huzzah. The Brigadier should have just shot it down in the first place and saved us 100 minutes of "hey, we're in colour now - let's have lots of orange and gold to distract from the shit script").

It speaks volumes that the actor stole Sarah-Jane's "all teeth and curls" line in The Five Doctors for no reason at all other than to **** with continuity. The Master's better in that story than he is.

The name-dropping comes a close second, though - what exactly does twattering on about Nelson or whoever achieve?

Same thing as "Ha! Venutian Karate!" does when somebody's unconscious. I mean why? What's the point?

The Doctor knew there were going to be Dalek's, but he didn't know about the two factions till he saw them did he?[/QUOTE]

When he examined the remains of the one in Totter's Yard, he made a comment about it being "the wrong Dalek" or somesuch. But, unless I'm misremembering, it was a standard one - the enhanced version wasn't discovered until later.

I probably need to watch it again. Bonus points for the whole "Ace's radio picks up the Dalek transmissions" though - thought that was a lovely notion.

What I really, really love about Remembrance is we don't spend the first half of the runtime with the Doctor trying to convince people there is an alien invasion going on. And the way that just because Alison and Rachel are miles out of their depth, he isn't a total cock towards them.

The colours in most Pertwee stuff is stomach turning... All that dayglo. Just because you can shoot orange and brown is no reason to actually do it...

Mind, Claws isn't too bad, relatively - it's only four episodes. I usually end up rooting for the Master because even though he's a murdering genocidal maniac at least he has some charm to him... Him or Benton, anyway. It's the unholy trinity of Pertwee, Manning and Franklin that really gets on my tits.

How dare you humans criticize my efforts to save your species? Why I never!! (joking) Honestly I have not seen the Time Monster yet mainly due to the fact it has not been released on DVD in the states yet. I always love to see Ingrid Pitt in a prime, I may can catch some scenes on youtube though. Actually I like (obvious) the earlier Docs. The 2nd and 3rd were not as wishy washy as some that came later.

Halfshell wrote: When he examined the remains of the one in Totter's Yard, he made a comment about it being "the wrong Dalek" or somesuch. But, unless I'm misremembering, it was a standard one - the enhanced version wasn't discovered until later.

Ah, there you go then. He was expecting the Davros Dalek's and hadn't been counting on the others. How Hartnell knewto set a trap specifically for Davros I have no idea, but there's lots of later evidence to show he clearly knew more about the Daleks than he was latting on in their first story, if nothing else their reputation was firece enough for them to not be used in the Death Zone games.

I probably need to watch it again. Bonus points for the whole "Ace's radio picks up the Dalek transmissions" though - thought that was a lovely notion.

I love her "Who you calling small!" bit as well. Shame the combination of the original 60's casings looking battered and the new white casings looking flimsy and light means it's hard not to feel sorry more sorry for the Daleks when Ace goes up against them.

Plus she spends most of it completely battering one poor sod...

Personally I didn't pick up on the trap being set particularly for Davros - more the Daleks, and the Doctor was just totally unsurprised that Davros was involved with them being at war with each other. Letting Davros live in "Genesis" is a great long-term move for the universe, as it means the Daleks are usually too busy with internal strife to become a galactic force.

To all concerned: Do Not Watch The Time Monster. You can live without it - after all, Ingrid Pitt's impressive mantelpiece is in plenty of things that won't hurt your brain. Well, okay, not that many, but some. I'm actually mildly amazed she was in the thing, that must have been a pretty big catch for the show at the time seeing as I think around then she was a genuine film star... And Who being Who, it bungs her in a right crock of shit.

inflatable dalek wrote:Ah, there you go then. He was expecting the Davros Dalek's

Why? Why was he expecting the Dalek to have been enhanced with cybernetic implants? When did he learn about that?

And given that Davros is the rogue, surely the adapted Daleks are the "wrong" ones.

How Hartnell knewto set a trap specifically for Davros I have no idea

What trap's that then? The failsafe that McCoy rigged into the Hand of Omega at some point after picking it up from the funeral home, by which point he'd learnt of the Dalek involvement? That one?

Cliffy wrote:What I really, really love about Remembrance is we don't spend the first half of the runtime with the Doctor trying to convince people there is an alien invasion going on. And the way that just because Alison and Rachel are miles out of their depth, he isn't a total cock towards them.

I like that, rather than go off on a rant about arrogant apes believing they're the centre of the universe, he just basically lets them look inside the Dalek casing and leaves them to it. Sort of "there you go then."

I've thoroughly enjoyed the McCoy stretch of my journey through classic Who. I'm left with the strong urge to watch them all again straight away, which I never really got from any of the others.

One other bit of Battlefield I loved was the whole "Who's it signed by??!!! / "The Doctor..." / "Oh, well that's alright then" bit.

Really enjoyed Fenric, dodgy acting from the two vampire chicks aside. Thought the "It's Ace's mum" bit was a bit telegraphed and as such the flashback to ten minutes earlier utterly gratuitous, but other than that quality. Didn't quite get why The Doctor needed to destroy Ace's faith in him, seeing as the Great Serpent waltzed straight past her anyway.

Ghost Light was a mad one. Really enjoyed the first two parts, but the last episode was just a bit bizarre. Liked the complete lack of any real exposition - works on the assumption that the audience has seen this sort of thing for thirty years and has the capacity to think for itself.

GL and Fenric would have sat quite nicely in the "gothic horror" bit from the Tom Baker years that they were asked to stop doing.

... I've just got a few random Hartnells and some eight-day-long Troughtons to catch up on now, then I'll have done all the complete stuff they've stuck out on DVD that isn't The Key to Time.

Ghost Light is mental. You have to watch it intently for the whole run time, blink and it stops making sense. Imagine watching it over three weeks with no I-Player, online commentary, filesharing networks, etc, etc though - as much as I love the McCoy stuff, you can sort of see why viewing figures got so low, the broadcast format was just too primitive to support the plots.

Never minded the Cockney girls too much. They're not great, but I never found them that much of a bother... Easily outweighed by Wainwright and Soren (the latter is maybe, just maybe my all-time favourite guest character) - "I still have my faith...". The whole thing scared the shit out of me when I was 8, especially the underwater bodies.

The BBC archivists must have really hated Troughton - not only did they junk his stuff to the extent that only about half a dozen stories are still complete, they made sure the ones that did survive were largely shockers. "The Mind Robber" is class, "Tomb of the Cybermen" is alright, the rest not so much (the best thing to happen to "The Invasion" was the BBC wiping a quarter of it). All the good stuff's gone, probably forever. They did a similar number on Racist Billy, TBH - junked the Massacre, the Smugglers, the Myth-Makers; kept the Sensorites, the Web Planet and the Keys of Marinus. Buffoons.

Cliffjumper wrote:(the best thing to happen to "The Invasion" was the BBC wiping a quarter of it)

I was quite impressed by the animated Part 1. I was sucked in by this artful, broody almost noir piece full of suspense... then... well. Yeah.

For eight bloody parts.

Mmmm, the basic plot is pretty good, it's just that everything that happens seems to happen three times...

I generally agree with Cliffy's assessmet of the 3rd Doctor, however weirdly I loved him in his first series.

In those stories I've read that Pertwee wasn't to sure how to play the doc and so what comes across is a 3rd Doctor who appears mysterious and clever. The 'John Smith' line is possibly the examle of how the 3rd Doctor had the potential to be good. Add in character wise his legimate frustrations at being forced to stay on one planet, what is easily the best writing of his era and an assistant who was a bit fiesty relative to most then his first 4 stories and extremely likeable.

Ghost Light is my favorite story of the 7th Doctor I think. Genius from start to finish.