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OK...
I JUST received my copy of TFTM R2 DVD from Amazon.co.uk TODAY ! ;:-) But since I live in Canada it cost me a whoppin' 12$ canadian of customs import fees... Damn bloodsuckers.. ANYWAY... I already owned the Séville (Canadian) and RHINO versions of the disc,.. and I must say... this was GOOD ! For one thing, it has the BEST sound ! (yes, I compared)... the AC-3 5.1 soundtrack on the RHINO version was REALLY AWFULL compared to the Maverick's audio.. And it figures... Because since it's the different cut of the film with Victor Caroli doing some more narration, it HAD to be redone. The background details were MUCH clearer this time around, and the voice was mostly coming from the center speaker. (as opposed to the Rhino that has voice comin' through the rear speaker,... !!). No bother comparin' it to the canadian version either, since that piece of s**t was 2.0 Stereo only... The picture on the Maverick DVD was OBVIOUSLY NOT digitally remastered, ..BUT.... looks (in some ways) better than the Rhino because there is no colour bleeding on the laser bolts,... ALSO.. for those who said the PAL version sucks.. THINK AGAIN !!! Film standard is 24 fps... NTSC is almost 30 fps, and this causes an ugly "ghost" effect on the NTSC versions of the disc... but PAL has a MUCH better resolution as it is 25 fps (practically no ghost effect) and a frame size of PAL is 720x576 pixels as opposed to the smaller NTSC frame size of 720x480. And let us not forget that I really prefer the bonus material on the UK disc... The picture gallery was lame, but I thought the "Oh shit" music was Hillarious !... The short documentary was cute ... interesting for me, anyway, to see the brit's toy commercials I never saw as a kid. And the Widescreen theatrical trailer... now THAT is a TREAT !!! AWSOME !!! And last but not least, the Takara episode... funny and interesting as it was never broadcast here (thank God) and although the english dubbing is as bad as puke, the animation is still superd... I always wanted to see those in better resolution than the crappy Real video .RAMs on the internet.
All in all,... I give the DVD 3 and 1/2 stars out of 5 stars... a BETTER average than the other 2 DVDs... OH... and as was earlier mentioned in this discussion board... it IS a UNIQUE cut of the film,... because it has the Extra Victor Caroli dialogue AND has the swearing in it,... Anyway..... I'm not from the UK but I still encourage brits and TF collectors worldwide to buy this disc... I think it's worth it...

1.For one thing, it has the BEST sound ! (yes, I compared)... the AC-3 5.1 soundtrack on the RHINO version was REALLY AWFULL compared to the Maverick's audio.. And it figures... Because since it's the different cut of the film with Victor Caroli doing some more narration, it HAD to be redone.

I believed it was mentioned by Maverick that they used the same 5.1 track from Rhino. It's not to hard to copy and paste the opening narration into the beginning of the Dolby Digital track.

As far as quality of the audio is concerned, I haven't heard the track coming out of the rear speakers only. On my setup, I get total 5.1 surround with audio coming out of center with vocies hitting the side speakers depending on position of the character on screen. Action/Music Score/Vocal Songs are well balanced, and appear to make good use of the subwoofer.

2. No bother comparin' it to the canadian version either, since that piece of s**t was 2.0 Stereo only...

I believe it was mono only, or 1.0 track pumping out of both channels. It sounded so weak on my speakers... To its credit, it had no distortions, drops in the quality (of course, none of the other DVDs had that problem).

I'm curious, was there any cross colouration or digital tape drop outs anywhere on the image?

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I kinda prefer the PAL one also as the Rhino one looked waaay to bright in comparison with the original version.In the PAL it is still distinctvly sharper than the VHS one and extras on both sides of the alantic were a let down.Not that it matters as I tend to look at DVD extras as a once time novelty then I rarely return to watch them again (ONe exception is the Superman DVD) so I more often than not get the VHS if a freind has the movie on DVD.

I still prefer getting VHS. Its cheeper, I'm not to bothered with the sharpness of picture as it will neither make a movie better or worse.

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Thanks to Skywarp-again for the pic below.


I wonder....

Originally posted by Jim:

I believed it was mentioned by Maverick that they used the same 5.1 track from Rhino. It's not to hard to copy and paste the opening narration into the beginning of the Dolby Digital track.

As far as quality of the audio is concerned, I haven't heard the track coming out of the rear speakers only. On my setup, I get total 5.1 surround with audio coming out of center with vocies hitting the side speakers depending on position of the character on screen. Action/Music Score/Vocal Songs are well balanced, and appear to make good use of the subwoofer.

OK... Listen, buddy... You're probably downmixing your 5.1 to Dolby PRO LOGIC... Yes.. that would do.. it would give you more subwoofer and put voices through the center speaker. the 5.1 IS screwd on the Rhino disc and IGN.com and several online DVD websites once reviewed the disc and said the EXACT same thing: the 5.1 is BAD but PRO LOGIC will solve the problems (only then, it's no longer authentic 5.1 but SIMULATED surround). As for the Maverick, Rhino MUST have re-touched the AC-3 because if you compare the 2 discs using the SAME settings, there IS a REAL difference,... As for what is "mentioned" we all know by now that they say one thing and do another...

I'm still looking for these sites. As for IGN.com:
http://dvd.ign.com/articles/37249p1.html

"All of this is presented in 5.1, which is pretty well-mastered. One problem (and this was there in the original film, so not a knock on the DVD per se) is that some of the bigger sound effects, like a giant planet eating another, were buried under cheesy synth pop. This is the style of the film, but it would have been cool to hear a little planet chomping rumbling through the speakers. "

Thats pretty far from saying its bad, or there actually being anything wrong... I'll keep checking for them other websites.

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[This message has been edited by Jim (edited 12-15-2001).]

Originally posted by Jim:



Thats pretty far from saying its bad, or there actually being anything wrong... I'll keep checking for them other websites.

My apollogies.. Good point.. Listen.. I hadn't read that in a while, but I REALLY DO remember some reviews that specified the 5.1 sounded weird... In ANY case... I'm just saying.. I have all 3 versions of the DVD and when it comes to the audio, I really prefer the R2 DVD.. I'm telling you... it really DOES sound different... Can anyone confirm this please ? Anyone else but me has all 3 DVDs on this board ?

I have 5 different versions of the movie on DVD.(Rhino USA, Seville CAN, Chinese bootleg CHI, Maverick UK, Pioneer JAP)

Rhino(USA) and Japanese(Pioneer) have the best video. Rhino(USA) has the best audio. I have a 5.1 Surround sound system and a 62inch HDTV. I watched both the USA and UK versions of the movie in just Left and Right(2.0) then put it on Surround(5.1). The difference was HUGE! Sound is so much better on 5.1 it's amazing. Video was the same too. Rhino's version was clear and crystal clear audio. It was GREAT! UK was a little worse in both respects, not by much though.

So, before you make judgements on quality of DVDs please, listen and watch them on their maximum capability. 5.1 Surround Sound w/ an HDTV.

If you want to get a TF:TM DVD and can get a regionless setting on your DVD player(if you live outside of the USA), I suggest Rhino's version.

[This message has been edited by G1 Megatron (edited 12-16-2001).]

pal is better,, the only reason america does not use this format ist the same reason they do not use the metric system.
:-)

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G1 Megatron, are there any bonus material on the Japanese Pioneer DVD?

Originally posted by Djar][aCho:
pal is better,, the only reason america does not use this format ist the same reason they do not use the metric system.
:-)

Yea, umm, right. PAL sucks compared to NTSC. If you look at the specs on the quality of the 2 different TV "modes" NTSC is better. PAL=yuck.

Originally posted by ottoegil:
G1 Megatron, are there any bonus material on the Japanese Pioneer DVD?

Pioneer TF:TM DVD release info:

Audio tracks: Mono Japanese / Mono English
Picture aspect ratio: 1.33:1
Region 2 (for Japan, Europe and Middle East)
No extras

[This message has been edited by G1 Megatron (edited 12-16-2001).]

this is fact so don'e f*** me here but the reason pal has taken off in eurpoe is the same reason the internet is so popular (i.e porn). NTSFC (or whatever the f*** it is called is actually a better quality but pal took off cause off the porn (according to my lecturer). As such NT?????:? is better than pal. However I do think the UK dvd of tftm has an awsome sound but I will verify on x-mas day when I get 6 speakers and dolby 5.1

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Originally posted by G1 Megatron:
Yea, umm, right. PAL sucks compared to NTSC. If you look at the specs on the quality of the 2 different TV "modes" NTSC is better. PAL=yuck.

Man,... you do NOT know what you are saying. PAL and SECAM is SUPERIOR to NTSC. PAL has a LARGER frame size and is MUCH CLOSER to FILM standard than NTSC. NTSC is UGLY 30 fps... remember... there is more "ghost" effect with FILM to NTSC because of the 24 to 30 frames/sec dilemma. PAL is 25 FPS.. BETTER.. Closer to film standard and this is a FACT. America is behind when it comes to TV. And so is Japan. Analogy: BETAMAX is BETTER than VHS.. but VHS won because it was used by more people... NOT because of quality reasons.. And no... we do not have PAL in Canada.. we use NTSC... I, however, am not afraid to admit the truth... PAL is better.



[This message has been edited by Xilef_Darklight (edited 12-17-2001).]

You are wrong sir. NTSC is better. There is no "ghost effect" at all. At least I cant see it. Maybe im blind.

Originally posted by G1 Megatron:
You are wrong sir. NTSC is better. There is no "ghost effect" at all. At least I cant see it. Maybe im blind.

OK .. Let us end this. Here are the facts wither you (or I ..) like it or not
NTSC: 720x480, 29.97 fps
PAL : 720x576, 25 fps (Film is 24 fps)
Now let me ask you a question, G1 Megatron:
Your giant TV,... do you use a converter to playback PAL or is that big TV of yours multisystem ? I can tell you PAL looks HORRIBLE on MY TV, but that is because I use a third-party converter... a CMD-850 (the best converter, but still bad). In that case it is normal to think PAL is bad. That is because the PAL signal is re-converted to NTSC before it hits your TV. BUT... if you own a MULTISYSTEM TV (like my friend has) then there is NO conversion involved because it can read PAL as it is and then you can truely compare the two... A little note here: MAYBE... Maverick used a NTSC version of the TFTM and reconverted it to PAL. In that case, you are certainly right to say the picture is not as sharp as NTSC. (NTSC-to-PAL-to-NTSC must look ugly... ;:-) But big companies like Universal (Castle home video in the UK I believe)- when they release a film on R2 DVD, they don't use a NTSC master, but a FILM master. This is converted to PAL and the transfer of FILM (24 fps) to PAL (25 fps) is very smoothe. now, when they convert FILM to NTSC, the reason why you don't see a "ghost" effect is because they don't convert the frame rate when they do the NTSC MPEG-2 version,... This process is similar to VCDs,... you have PAL standard VCD, NTSC standard VCD as well as... FILM standard VCD... (23.976 fps). I hope this answers your question...(NO,. you are NOT blind, NTSC looks good on your TV).

NTSC? Well, for everything I want video for, I prefer PAL.

Cinema framerate is generically 24fps, so upping to PAL (25) is easy enough, and unlikely to be noticed.

When doing net downloads, 25fps is always preferable, since you can throw more bandwidth at fewer frames... which, even if they don't change, still take up space (especially with any noise in the signal.) Unless you're discarding every second frame, in which case 30 downgraded to 15 is easier to do well with a direct mathematical ratio.

IIRC, it has something to do with differences in electrical interference in this country too... you tend to get 50Hz cycle flicker in the UK, but 60Hz in the US. The fact that TV framerates are multiples of this probably isn't pure accident.

Can someone tell me why colour seems to be always so poor in NTSC? There's a noticeable washing-out in everything I've seen, from tape to DivXs of Buffy & Voyager... or does no-one know how to use the saturation control on their capture cards?

Personally, I care little for DVD quality or film effects; the further Hollywood moves towards slick camera angles, pristine make-up etcetera, the more unrealistic it is and the more films are saturated with style-by-numbers. I and most film students I've spoken to are anticipating a backlash against uncreative use of technology placed ahead of plot or acting considerations. Remastering often falls victim to this kind of sloppiness; when you lose non-incidental parts of the original signal as Rhino did with their release, you should recognise that you've been twiddling with the knobs on the software for too long.

Film nostalgia as far as I'm concerned involves a quality reproduction of existing material, not screwing around with it as I encounter far too much in the audio market. Re-masters of bands like Iron Maiden and Bon Jovi simply don't have the warmth of the originals, but what really made me laugh was the attempt to make the Sex Pistols sound good... someone really missed the point there...

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Check out my collection & trade list and other TF stuff @ denyer.cjb.net!
Later, when I was hanging from the tree... — Bill Hicks

Oh please SHUT THE HELL UP!!!, this is so silly and trival. Its like being back in school again, I don't care if PAL is better than NTSC, or NTSC better than PAL. Its Transformers, and I have a copy finally which I can cherish forever, instead of some tatty tape. Please don't take this the wrong way, but someone had to say something!

Ah, don't mind us, we're just techogeeks... personally, the Canadian DivX rip was enough for me, but I wanna support UK releases...

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Check out my collection & trade list and other TF stuff @ denyer.cjb.net!
Later, when I was hanging from the tree... — Bill Hicks

Overall, the Rhino picture is superior. However, there are a few instances of interlacing problems displayed, thats because of the fact that it is NTSC. This isn't as big of a problem for Pal cause its only 1 FPS faster.

However, if a TF:TM DVD were released using the restored Rhino print, and encoded Progressively, then you would have the best image around. No interlacing, gibb effect or macro blocks. Of course, the cost would be much higher. It would be pristine quality... Sadly, I doubt many companies see the point into putting that much effort into a kids 'toon from the mid 80s.

yakumo, please don't outlash at people. It might cause a flame war. Thanks

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[This message has been edited by Jim (edited 12-17-2001).]

Originally posted by Stuart Denyer:
the further Hollywood moves towards slick camera angles, pristine make-up etcetera, the more unrealistic it is and the more films are saturated with style-by-numbers. I and most film students I've spoken to are anticipating a backlash against uncreative use of technology placed ahead of plot or acting considerations. Remastering often falls victim to this kind of sloppiness; when you lose non-incidental parts of the original signal as Rhino did with their release, you should recognise that you've been twiddling with the knobs on the software for too long.

Man,... I TOTALLY agree with you there... And let us not forget that the WIDESCREEN trailer on the UK DVD seems to be the BEST... really nice colours... the original darks.. RHINO erased many of the japanipation "shadows" when they "digitally remastered" it. Plus, they didn't COMPLETELY remaster it as they stated on the disc,... you will ALL notice here that the fight with the Junkions is AWFULL and you really can see they omitted to retouch it. You see analog noise, for God's sake !! This means they actually digitally remastered a TAPE !! If they had used the original WIDESCREEN print, they wouldn't even have had to remaster it anyway,.. (I think,.. referring to the amazing quality of the trailer on the R2 DVD here). And I don't believe that crap they couldn't find it... as if...