TF:TM Deleted Scene?

Cliffjumper · Post by **Cliffjumper** » Fri Jan 11, 2008 4:30 pm

Is this new to anyone else?
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=xyTQsJJcs8Q

If that's genuine (I mean, for my recall, it might not even be missing from the DVD), I wonder why it got cut? It's a bit interesting.

Disclaimer #1: If it is old news to you, don't bother commenting... I don't bother having a go at you when you post something I already know, do I?

Disclaimer #2; ...and please don't bore us to death with the usual turgid list of scenes that probably weren't planned to be in the film at a particularly late stage. Thats what the YouTube commentators are for, and YouTube comments have officially taken over from football forums as the lowest form of intelligence on the web...

Halfshell · Post by **Halfshell** » Fri Jan 11, 2008 4:33 pm

Originally posted by Cliffjumper
If that's genuine (I mean, for my recall, it might not even be missing from the DVD), I wonder why it got cut? It's a bit interesting.

Flow? Stylistic issues? I mean it doesn't really fit with the editing used in the rest of the movie.

Odd.

I can't even remember what the next shot's meant to be?

RUNAMOK · Post by **RUNAMOK** » Fri Jan 11, 2008 4:34 pm

Interesting indeed, maybe they planned a scene where they get prime form the battle field to the lab/repairbay where he dies? but I'm just geussing.

Cliffjumper · Post by **Cliffjumper** » Fri Jan 11, 2008 4:36 pm

Originally posted by Halfshell
I can't even remember what the next shot's meant to be?

I did think it was a straight cut to the medi-lab, as Runamok says... but then I couldn't place the bit where Arcee suddenly emerges from hiding for the whole fight and pretends she's helping to drive the Decepticons off. I'd be lying if I said I could remember much of what happens after fight itself with much clarity.

Was there a bit in the comic where everyone runs over to Optimus as the Decepticons take off?

Of all of that, it's only the zoom over to whatever that didn't make the cut, isn't it? Or ddoes it cut away from Astrotrain quicker than that?

Halfshell · Post by **Halfshell** » Fri Jan 11, 2008 4:41 pm

Originally posted by Cliffjumper
but then I couldn't place the bit where Arcee suddenly emerges from hiding for the whole fight and pretends she's helping to drive the Decepticons off.

I think that's part of Kup's "Prime turned the tide by getting himself killed before Starscream decided running away was the best strategy" speech... which takes place whilst the 'cons are still gathering themselves up. I think. Because I'd be lying too if I said I could remember much of what happens after the fight itself with much clarity.

Of all of that, it's only the zoom over to whatever that didn't make the cut, isn't it? Or ddoes it cut away from Astrotrain quicker than that?

I think it's just the zoom pan. May have cut away a bit faster. Blitzwing will probably know. Or one of those people who watch it twice a day on the grounds that it's the greatest film ever made, but haven't ever watched anything else.

Cliffjumper · Post by **Cliffjumper** » Fri Jan 11, 2008 5:01 pm

I'd put it down to a bit of trickery with a high-res rip if it wasn't for what looks like Kup running up to Springer (which would possibly mesh with his "turning the tide" line - IIRC he then runs in the vague direction of Astrotrain). The bit that doesn't match up, actually, is how Springer and whoever else actually gets over there so quickly in the time it takes the Decepticons to bug out... my main recollection of the aftermath is Soundwave calmly walking towards Astrotrain carrying Megatron with a hail of lasers around him (which was actually quite cool). Maybe that's why it was edited, because there aren't enough Autobots left to both gather around Prime and keep firing on the retreating 'Cons... mortally wounded leaders or not, that fragment does stand out slightly for the fact both sides are a stones' throw away from each other without trying anything - either shooting down Astrotrain, or swinging back around for an attack run...

Blitzwing · Post by **Blitzwing** » Fri Jan 11, 2008 11:16 pm

That scene is from the Deleted/Alternate footage reel on the 20th Anniversary DVD. I just popped it in, the narrator for the Deleted scenes feature said it was the largest piece of animation that was removed from the movie. Basically he said it was removed because it was too hard to tell who was up there, and why they were there. In the storyboards, it was supposed to be the Autobots crowding around the fallen Optimus Prime.

The 'turn the tide' line happens pretty much right after the Soundwave carrying Megatron scene, and right before the clip of the last Decepticons boarding Astrotrain and Starscream telling him to take off.

Post by **inflatable dalek** » Sat Jan 12, 2008 12:42 am

Originally posted by Blitzwing
That scene is from the Deleted/Alternate footage reel on the 20th Anniversary DVD. I just popped it in, the narrator for the Deleted scenes feature said it was the largest piece of animation that was removed from the movie.

IIRC correctly what Chris says is that is the only known deleted footage from the film, there could well have been other trims and whatnot that haven't made it into Century 21.

Halfshell · Post by **Halfshell** » Mon Jan 14, 2008 4:20 pm

Originally posted by Blitzwing
The 'turn the tide' line happens pretty much right after the Soundwave carrying Megatron scene, and right before the clip of the last Decepticons boarding Astrotrain and Starscream telling him to take off.

See. I said Blitzwing would know. Go me!

Cliffjumper · Post by **Cliffjumper** » Mon Jan 14, 2008 6:34 pm

Yeh, cheers for the info Blitzy. I wonder what rock I was under when that came out... also wonder why it isn't bought up regularly as "evidence" for why Sparkplug's funeral/Red Alert's death/Brawn farting into a pint was definitely animated, yessiree.

Owen1s · Post by **Owen1s** » Sun May 11, 2008 7:42 pm

In the fight between Prime and Megatron there is a slight continuity error before Megatron jumps at Prime Dirge is suppose to creep up on him and attack him. That is why Prime stands up all of a sudden for no apparent reason I think I saw the storyboard on a website but can't remember which one it was. This was supposibly animated but lost after the movie came out. Could be wrong though.

Chris McFeely · Post by **Chris McFeely** » Sun May 11, 2008 8:16 pm

inflatable dalek wrote:IIRC correctly what Chris says is that is the only known deleted footage from the film, there could well have been other trims and whatnot that haven't made it into Century 21.

That what I said, but the specific quote Blitzy's given is what was said on the Yank disc. Me, I like to be a bit more vague about stuff that, y'know, can't be remotely backed up.

Owen1s · Post by **Owen1s** » Mon May 19, 2008 10:06 pm

Does anybody know why it is so hard to find deleted scenes from TF:TM?

another tf fan · Post by **another tf fan** » Mon May 19, 2008 11:10 pm

Mostly because the film was over budget and running late so not much footage was cut.

Cliffjumper · Post by **Cliffjumper** » Tue May 20, 2008 4:45 am

Yeh, animation is basically so epxensive that cuts to cel-animation are few and far between - the shooting script would already have had just about any unwanted material cut out of it. Most of the scenes featured in drafts and/or storyboards were never even filmed, for budgetary and/or time reasons - for the wide majority of them, there's no reason why they would have been removed from the final cut anyway, it's not like the film was drastically over-length.

Notabot · Post by **Notabot** » Tue May 20, 2008 5:00 am

Wat 'bout that seen where Spik says the potty werd? Have u seen tat???2?

Owen1s · Post by **Owen1s** » Thu May 22, 2008 6:07 pm

I was always under the impression hasbro destroyed most of the additional material when the film was finished

Cliffjumper · Post by **Cliffjumper** » Thu May 22, 2008 6:21 pm

I'd be interested to know where you heard that... I can't see why Hasbro would go to the effort to commission the footage and then destroy it. I mean, despite it being years before DVD extras (or even Director's Cut releases being common) they'd no doubt have archived it - or the studio would have. Again, there's no reason to actually cut most of the scenes we hear amount - the only one that's a bit iffy is Dirge's death. The rest of it - Mirage being visible defending the city, Magnus & co versus Devastator, Shockwave's tower being attacked and so on, is far less harsh than some of the bits left in (Prowl's internal combustion, Ironhide's implied execution-style death, Starscream being disintegrated)...

TF:TM was what, 86 minutes long. I'd say 90 minutes was their maximum length for the thing, so the scenes wouldn't have been cut for timing reasons, and there seem no other logical reason for removal of much of the draft material other than it simply wasn't animated to cut costs.

Cel animation of that quality at that time was very, very expensive, which is why high quality was rarely seen on the TV series (or most other series of the period, including the vast majority of Japanese stuff). Animating scenes for the film and then cutting them for no particular reason, and then destroying the footage would be a lot more time-consuming than simply destroying a bunch of dead presidents to start off with... Cel-animated films aren't made like most films, with rushes and first edits* and the like involved... the scripts and storyboards are worked out precisely beforehand, and only when they know exactly what they want do the animators start up. it's much more cost- and time-effective that way.

* Well, at least not in the sense of, say, a four-hour version of all the usable stuff stitched together in order which will then be trimmed down into something watchable... I daresay the animated equivalent of a first edit is largely the film as completed, without overdubbed soundtrack...

Post by **inflatable dalek** » Thu May 22, 2008 7:21 pm

I'd say it's likely the actors recorded the entire script, if you've only got Robert Stack for one day and you'll have to pay him extra to get him back in it's sensible to have him do everything- even stuff you're planning to cut- rather than have to cough up if you change your mind.

But as far as missing animation goes, i don't think there's very much more.

Cliffjumper · Post by **Cliffjumper** » Thu May 22, 2008 8:05 pm

Yeh, I believe that's the reason for Magnus clearly voicing the drawn-and-quartered death (shown in the original comic adaptation), which obviously got cut before animation - it doesn't quite sit right with being shot... It's also probably how Don Messick and whoever voiced Inferno wangled credits - as they were presumably hired, recorded stuff and never had their scenes animated...

For cut material, we'd have heard a lot more about it by now from official sources - DVD commentaries, conventions and the like. Even if it was destroyed or lost, people involved with the film would probably be a bit more forthcoming about it existing in the first place.

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