Is the Marvel Universe dead?

Cliffjumper · Post by **Cliffjumper** » Mon Nov 11, 2002 3:46 am

Does anyone who reads many Marvel books think that the books generally seem to have individual universes right now? I mean, I know the New/Uncanny books are allegedly set in the good ol' 'near-future' which explains to some extend how the X-Men were able to kinda feature in the Kang War, and that Earth's surrender in that story didn't seem to bother those at Westchester, and similarly the Avengers not even registering the destruction of Genosha... While I don't read X-Treme, that seems to be set in the 'present', explaining why Storm and Thunderbird could show up in New X-Men without mentioning it in Claremont's piece o' ****.

But while I'm not a F4 reader, I don't think they mentioned the Kang War, and you'd think Kang levelling citys left right and centre would disrupt Marlo's comic business... or that the Avengers might have mentioned Hawkeye's incarceration, escape and whatever [I've stopped reading T-Bolts]... while I'm not lamenting the lack of crossovers or anything, I was wondering if anyone knew anything official...

BlueBlaster · Post by **BlueBlaster** » Mon Nov 11, 2002 9:51 pm

The writers are ignoring other writers.It seems most of the writers has an own "Marvel Universe".

RID Scourge · Post by **RID Scourge** » Tue Nov 12, 2002 3:16 am

I've heard a rumor that they're going to scrap the original universe, and just use the Ultimate Marvel Universe.

Ultimate Weapon · Post by **Ultimate Weapon** » Tue Nov 12, 2002 3:52 am

Or the Movieverse which will take over next year with 4 Marvel movies! Can you say, "True believers in money making?" Nuff said

Cliffjumper · Post by **Cliffjumper** » Tue Nov 12, 2002 7:53 am

They're a company. The whole bloody point of a company is to make money.

They won't scrap the stanard books for a few years at least, especially as most of them are at such a high in terms of accolade... They'd be risking a major fan buoycott, and New X-Men regularly outsells Ultimate...

angloconvoy · Post by **angloconvoy** » Tue Nov 12, 2002 11:15 am

That Ultimate Universe rumour is bull. They've stated that there will never be more than 5 ultimate books at any one time.

The universe isn't really tying together at all any more. I mean, in thor, asgard has come to earth, but none of the other comics seems to have noticed this. But you should read thor though, he got well pissed off with the state of the earth so he decided, what with him being lord of the asgardian gods now, that he'd reign things in a little.

The only reference to any of this that I've noticed in Avengers is that he was wearing his battle armour in a recent issue, instead of his standard super hero get up

BlueBlaster · Post by **BlueBlaster** » Tue Nov 12, 2002 12:20 pm

Yeah the Ultimate universe conversion was bs,that rumor was lured to the fans and they had big discussions about this in many Marvel message boards and then Jemas said it was only a rumor.

Cliffjumper · Post by **Cliffjumper** » Tue Nov 12, 2002 12:47 pm

Marvel aren't going to chop the likes of Avengers, Captain Marvel, New & Uncanny X-Men, T-Bolts, the Knights books, Amazing Spidey etc. when they's spent so long gathering such powerful creative teams... I mean, can you imagine?

MARVEL: Oi, Peter David. We're cancelling Captain Marvel and replacing it with Ultimate Captain Marvel. You can come onboard, but you'll have to start from scratch.
PETER DAVID: Fergoff!

The daftest thing about zeroing the continuity with the Ultimate line is that in five years they'll be full of continuity themselves... and it's not like Grant Morrison's rolling around in back issue refernces or anything, is it? Plus if Marvel think the Ultimates is going to come close to busiek's avengers, they're in for a sore surprise...

angloconvoy · Post by **angloconvoy** » Tue Nov 12, 2002 2:58 pm

The Ultimates is a good comic tho.

Post by **Hound** » Tue Nov 12, 2002 5:22 pm

That doesn't mean they have to cancel the other title though.

Ultimate Weapon · Post by **Ultimate Weapon** » Tue Nov 12, 2002 9:34 pm

Originally posted by Quicksilver
They're a company. The whole bloody point of a company is to make money.

And you hate Dreamwave because of this? Oy vay:eyebrow:

Post by **Hound** » Tue Nov 12, 2002 9:50 pm

There is a difference between making money by producing a creative product that people can leave satisfied that their money was well spent and producing 32 alternate covers for the same damn book so that you can bleed extra money out of the completist morons.

Cliffjumper · Post by **Cliffjumper** » Tue Nov 12, 2002 10:56 pm

Couldn't have put it better meself. If you did go out and buy 5 copies of X-Men #1, at the end of the day you'd have one decent comic. Not so if you bought all the covers for G1 #1. And how many Marvel comics have had simultaneously released alternate covers in, say, the past 10 years? There's a fistful, I grant you, but Busiek's Iron Man #1 was infinitely more worthy of a variant than, say, G1 #3. And as I've said before, give me a Marvel series, limited or otherwise, that had at least two different covers for every issue. That's not simply making money, that's extortion.

Besides which, we're talking about selling movie rights for original characters, not bleeding money out of completists. Maybe one day DW will come up with an original character someone will want to turn into a movie, and that'd be fine. Maybe one day DW will come up with a character rather than pin-ups.

Ultimate Weapon · Post by **Ultimate Weapon** » Wed Nov 13, 2002 12:45 am

Give me a Marvel limited series that actually comes out on time.

Post by **Hound** » Wed Nov 13, 2002 12:55 am

Give me a Dreamwave anything that comes out on time...

or are we not comparing to DW anymore?

If you want to criticize Marvel go ahead, no one is saying that Marvel is perfect but watch whom you compare Marvel's quality of books to, you'll not find many that are better.

Ultimate Weapon · Post by **Ultimate Weapon** » Wed Nov 13, 2002 1:03 am

I wouldn't compare many Marvel books unless I were comparing lumps of coal. Both are used as fuel for fires and barbeques. The Ultimates line is the only thing that Marvel has going. Hell I'll even say that Ultimate Spiderman is the best comic out today. Yet G.I. Joe is superior.

Post by **Hound** » Wed Nov 13, 2002 1:14 am

Having not read a single Ultimate title, for want of any desire to, I'll not comment on their quality. However I wonder how many of the regular Marvel books you've bothered to actually read before you condemn them. I for one can only speak for New X-Men, Uncanny X-Men and Wolverine and while not the best comics out there they are better than most. I'd be interested to know what you consider to be good as far as comics are concerned because you come off as someone who only reads the Ultimate titles (the popular stuff) and doesn't even give anything else a chance. Along that line of thinking, you pick up Wizard magazine every month don't you?

Oh and GIJoe? The current title? Are you nuts? Oh you should go out and buy a Sandman TPB it'll change your whole view on what makes a comic good. I know go pick up the Mike Grell's run on Green Arrow, good stuff that. The Killing Joke by Alan Moore, that comic has the funniest ending. Claremont and Byrne's run on X-men, it beats any of that Ultimate crap you subject yourself to.

Ultimate Weapon · Post by **Ultimate Weapon** » Wed Nov 13, 2002 1:20 am

Bah, I have no use for Wizard I stopped picking it up around #22. As for the rest its mainly garbage. X-men used to pique my interest when I was in 7th grade. I have almost all the Wolverine issues and have probably read more about the character than you have. And have come to the realization that he is grossly one dimensional. Im the best their is and all that babble gets boring the 50th time you hear it, but then again you probably live with your parents.

Been their done that, and didn't you just say that you have not read The Ultimates and therefore cannot judge it? Granted the X Ultimate title is the worst piece of crap I have ever come by. G.I. Joe is great it has fresh stories and new concepts and angles. The Ultimates are about rehashing old classics giving them twists and turns they never had the 1st time around. Anyway the new Batman is better than all I have read.

BigMaki · Post by **BigMaki** » Wed Nov 13, 2002 1:32 am

Originally posted by Ultimate Weapon
Bah, I have no use for Wizard I stopped picking it up around #22. As for the rest its mainly garbage. X-men used to pique my interest when I was in 7th grade. I have almost all the Wolverine issues and have probably read more about the character than you have. And have come to the realization that he is grossly one dimensional. Im the best their is and all that babble gets boring the 50th time you hear it, but then again you probably live with your parents.

Dude, what's with you acting like a dick all of a sudden? Your argument loses a lot of steam when you turn to personal attacks... Though I do agree with you about Wolverine, you probably don't realize that he seems to have quite a minor role in most X-Men issues these days. I think the powers that be at Marvel realized that they'd oversaturated the market with him and have backed off, choosing to focus on other characters instead. Of course, you still seem to be damning Marvel without offering many alternatives. If you said, "The Authority is a much better book than X-Men ever was," then I'd listen. If you said, "Sandman had more depth than any Marvel book I've read," then I'd listen. If you mentioned 100 Bullets or My Monkey's Name Is Jennifer or Y, The Last Man or any of a number of great books out there, I'd listen. But you didn't. So...

Ultimate Weapon · Post by **Ultimate Weapon** » Wed Nov 13, 2002 1:39 am

G.I. Jack is better than most Marvel books. I didn't mean to attack anyone I was mainly refering to comic book audiences living at home in high school and finding these stories interesting. I would like to find these stories interesting and also live at home rent free and forever go to high school. You and I know this is not gonna happen. I have to move on and find something interesting or it will become stale.