Catholicism, good idea or bad idea?

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Catholicism, good or bad?

Good
9
41%
Bad
13
59%
 
Total votes: 22

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Sir Auros
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Catholicism, good idea or bad idea?

Post by Sir Auros »

Look at this link before you vote

http://www.cnn.com/2002/US/04/28/church ... index.html

I really loathed Catholicism before, but this has really built on that.
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Jim
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Post by Jim »

<<Air conditioner is on>>
Blaster_86

Post by Blaster_86 »

Indeed auros. Never liked it before now it's just a laughing stock and insulting the the christian faith.
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mkay0
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Post by mkay0 »

many of the common practices in catholicism would be considered sacrilage if they were practiced in many other denominations.
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Post by ~*ShadowDancer*~ »

Neither Catholics nor Protestants want anything to do with me. Both faiths refused to bless me as my mother hadn't been living in this country for more than 3 yrs before I was born. Catholicism is a laughing stock, look at its history.

Before anyone bites my head off I have no problems with anyone of either faith or any other faith for that matter. Myself I am now a Pagan...no I do not dance around a fire in the woods at night in my birthday suit before anyone makes that suggestion...

So far all my meetings with priests of either faith have lead to the priest in question all but shredding my faith to ribbons without giving me chance to defend myself, and I quote: "Sounds like your religion is pointless." (Courtesy of a priest that visited my school)

After having read this article it has only re-inforced my view that this particular religion is Hypocritical. Who was it that said "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you" ?
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Houbatron
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Post by Houbatron »

While I'm an atheist (or more or less someone who just doesn't care about religion), I don't think you can judge an entire religion, an entire culture that is so important to so many people based on a few of its bad aspects...
Maybe religion on itself is slowly losing its influence and necessity in the modern world nowadays, it's still around in large numbers, all around us. It's about more than only radical extremistic supporters or schandals... It's not just ridiculous old-fashioned ideas, a religion is much more, it's a way of life, an entire culture. The bible isn't just a book of laws you have to follow by the letter, it's how you interpret it, reflected on your own living conditions and your world-view.
And catholicism does not equal child abuse. Just like the islam does not equal terrorism. Or, to reflect it on politics, being right-winged does not equal racism, being left-winged does not equal communism.

Just a question out of curiosity Sir Auros, why exactly do you loathe catholicism? Is it only a general loathing of the bad aspects of Catholicism (those hate mongering tv "priests" or this child abuse affair), or does it also affect your opinion about those who support Catholicism? :confused:
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S
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Post by S »

Originally posted by ~*ShadowDancer*~
Who was it that said "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you" ?
Buddha? :p

I agree with Houbatron... a few bad apples don't condemn the whole religion. I kind of like catholicism, sure they've messed up in the past but I think this has made them a bit more mature. And catholics have some cool historical glamour, with all the rituals and saints and pagan blasphemy...:D
- S
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Post by BigMaki »

This is a well-worded topic by Sir Auros. I'm glad you're getting the result you had hoped for in your poll. I have to disagree with you, though. The catholic church is the only reason that I am still on this earth. I am as certain now as I was 6 years ago, that the priests and ministers who spoke with me and eventually befriended me are the only reason I am alive today. I was raised as a catholic, but wandered away for a while in high school and early on in college, and got into quite a few things that I heavily regret now. The counseling and friendship that I (reluctantly) received set my life straight, and redirected me to be a better person, and someone with a much better spiritual sense. Now, before you dismiss me as one of the "born again" types, I'll admit that I'm certainly not very religious, and go to church these days only if it's convenient. I swear like a sailor. My favorite movie is Fight Club, apparently something we agree on. (go figure :)) I don't go around pushing my faith on others. Whatever works for you works for you. One thing I will not do, though, is lay down and listen to others bash myself and those who have dedicated their lives to our faith. I have spoken with a few of my friends who are priests, and you can't possibly have any idea what they are going through now. We've termed it "religious racism". I know these men. I know that molesting a child is something they would never, ever, ever consider, much less act out on, and would never allow in their churches. I know that they despise the priests who have molested children. If my friends were in charge, they would have dismissed these priests immediately. Unfortunately, all of the rules above them don't allow them to do this. Now they have to walk down the street and have total strangers swear at them and call them child molestors when they see that they are priests. Can you imagine that? You have no idea what these men have gone through in the past few months. No f#@king idea. It's the same thing as racism now, for them. They are being judged by their faith, and not who they are. It sickens me to know that this has happened in my faith, and now people will turn away from the church, no doubt. All I know is that my friends in the catholic church have never judged me for anything that I have done with my life, and have allowed me to become a better person. For that, I will defend them with every ounce of my being.

I know this is long and rambling, but when you get passionate about something, you tend to lose your focus when writing (as I have). Just to clear some stuff up, though, I will say that there are a lot of teachings from the highest levels of the church that I disagree with. Their first decision on whether or not to ban offending priests was one of them. Keep in mind that the church moves at a GLACIAL pace when it comes to making decisions. They have 2000 years of tradition to uphold, and they take that seriously. They are moving incredibly fast right now, compared to usual, but they are not done yet. Please remember that. Just because it didn't happen in a weekend doesn't mean that it won't happen...

Edit: Thanks to Houbatron for saying what I was trying to say in about 1/4th the # of words. :)
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Post by RID Scourge »

As a Catholic, I'd have to say, these clergy that are child molesters don't represent us. Sure, we have some bad leaders, but don't dump on the whole faith for the failing of those that are in charge. There are many good men of the cloth, but you don't hear about them because it doesn't make news. Also, I'm sure that there are leaders of other religions that do the same thing, but no one ever hears about it.

I'd just like to say that I'm insulted that you would make such a gross generalization, based on a few misguided souls. :mad:
Originally posted by Blaster_86
Indeed auros. Never liked it before now it's just a laughing stock and insulting the the christian faith.
Trust me, everything that is an insult to the Christian faith is an insult to Catholicism as well. You can't make a judgement based on a few misguided souls.
Originally posted by mkay0
many of the common practices in catholicism would be considered sacrilage if they were practiced in many other denominations.
Ah yes, but many of the common practices in many other denominations would be considered sacrilidge if they were practiced in Catholicism. It's all a matter of perspective.

In closing, catholic priests aren't the child molesters that the media portrays them to be.

Personally, I find this topic to be disciminatory, and I'd like it closed.
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Sir Auros
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Post by Sir Auros »

Well, wasn't that an intelligent rebuttal? :rolleyes:

But then, I really don't expect anything intelligent to come from you paladinprime and yet again, you've simply proven your stupidity.

This thread should NOT be closed because it is not discriminatory and was intended to spark some sort of a debate, but then if you are too damn stupid to argue your case, I can see how you'd want it closed.

As for why I loathe catholicism:
1-Crusades
2-Inquisition
3-Rape of the New World
4-Policies that greatly influence human overpopulation
5-Continued subservience of women
6-Pope abusing power (the reason priests can't marry in the first place)
7-A policy of allowing child molesters to be priests.

If you read the article, paladinprime, you supreme idiot, then you should understand how most sane people would disagree with the policy that the church has decided to have. They're going to continue to allow child-molesting priests to remain in the priesthood. It should also be noted that I didn't say that they were child molesters, but I am STRONGLY against their decision to allow those who are in the priesthood.

As for the other reasons, just ask me about them and I'll explain them as well as give examples, just like any other rational person can, a person who can have a civilized debate and not simply cry about how his views have been questioned while offering no counter points.

If this thread is closed because he can't have his beliefs questioned, then I'll have lost all respect for this board...just when I was getting it back over Plasmodium and SS's ban too...
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RID Scourge
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Auros, you're a real angry SOB, you know that?

Post by RID Scourge »

I'm just saying that that you're basing your judgement of Catholicism on the actions of its leaders, not its followers. You can't do it.
Originally posted by Sir Auros
Well, wasn't that an intelligent rebuttal? :rolleyes:

But then, I really don't expect anything intelligent to come from you paladinprime and yet again, you've simply proven your stupidity.

This thread should NOT be closed because it is not discriminatory and was intended to spark some sort of a debate, but then if you are too damn stupid to argue your case, I can see how you'd want it closed . . . If you read the article, paladinprime, you supreme idiot,
I can brandish insults too, deusch bag!!!

And once again, you've proven yourself to be a jacka$$. I'm saying that it is insulting to me to see you dump on my faith, based on what the leaders do.
Originally posted by Sir Auros
If this thread is closed because he can't have his beliefs questioned, then I'll have lost all respect for this board...just when I was getting it back over Plasmodium and SS's ban too...
Not because they are being questioned, because they are being dumped on. As far as I'm concerned, this discussion is just as bad as what Plasmodium said.

Mods, please close this.
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Actually...

Post by Denyer »

...it's my personal opinion that the teachings are at best misguided and at worst dangerous to others.

Catholicism is not THE Christian church. Catholicism (as far as my understanding goes) relates to the institution as well as the faith. That cannot be defended from critique on the grounds of personal religious freedom.

People choose their faith and opinions. They do not choose their gender, sexuality or race.

Both of you: Less of the weighted language.
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Re: Auros, you're a real angry SOB, you know that?

Post by Sir Auros »

Originally posted by PaladinPrime

I can brandish insults too, deusch bag!!!
Ok, first off, it's spelled douche, second, you're still not defending your viewpoint. We're not dumping on it, we're arguing against it, there's a difference. If I said that I hate Catholics and I wish they were all dead, THEN that would be like what plasmodium did. I haven't even said that I hate Catholics or even anything about disliking them in general, what I said was that I loathe Catholicism, as in the religion, the idea, not necessarily the people. That's like saying I dislike Nazism, and then having someone getting all pissy because I said that without defending the merits (if there even are any) of the idea.

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Houbatron
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Post by Houbatron »

Originally posted by Sir Auros

As for the other reasons, just ask me about them and I'll explain them as well as give examples, just like any other rational person can, a person who can have a civilized debate and not simply cry about how his views have been questioned while offering no counter points.
Actually, don't you think you could show a bit more respect for someone's religion? PaladinPrime made a few valid points from his point of view that the bad apples are not representative for the entire religion, which I fully agree with. Not every Christian is a fanatical orthodox and following the bible by the letter, living by old-fashioned and sometimes even disgusting points of views (like the one about the position of the woman in Society)... Like I said above, catholicism is more than what you're trying to portray here. You may not support it (neither do I ;)), you may disagree with some of its aspects (that list of yours) but once again: do you loathe the religion because of the things you listed or the people supporting it? Do you think that being a modern Catholic means that they actually agree with the inquisition, the crusades and the rape of the New World?Those were different times. I think that a lot of those past crimes were merely made in name of catholicism.
And does that list mean that you're implying that every catholic thinks that women belong in the kitchen? Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think you're judging a large group of people way too easily... ;)
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Post by Shrapnel Clone »

Sorry to say this, but some of the Christian idea's seem somewhat ..... outdated to me. Are they still claiming that the earth is the centre of the universe, by the way?
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Post by Sir Auros »

Originally posted by Kickback
Sorry to say this, but some of the Christian idea's seem somewhat ..... outdated to me. Are they still claiming that the earth is the centre of the universe, by the way?
Actually, it was just LAST YEAR that the CATHOLIC church officially declared that they were wrong about the Earth being the center of the universe. So there Houbatron, there's something more recent, and yes, I pretty much hate the people in power, but you also have to remember that the people who have been in power all this time have also perverted the teachings to their own ends so that it serves them.

Edit-And yes Houbatron, I realize that not all Catholics (or anyone else in any category) is exactly like every other, and I'm not trying to generalize about all of them, I'm arguing with the ideology, not the people. I also realize that they don't necessarily follow the same rules they did before, but do you believe that if we were to discover say a form of sentient extraterrestrial life, that they (as well as other christians) wouldn't try to convert them? And in this need to convert, there has ALWAYS been instances of violence forcing conversions, sometimes there have been less and sometimes (Inquisition & Rape of the New World) there have been more. Thank you Houbatron for being able to argue so aptly on this matter, because I find it a great deal of fun :)
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Post by Houbatron »

Originally posted by Kickback
Sorry to say this, but some of the Christian idea's seem somewhat ..... outdated to me. Are they still claiming that the earth is the centre of the universe, by the way?
Of course they've got a lot of outdated ideas. But once again, I don't think that being a catholic means that you are following every bibletext, every "catholic" law literally. Religion is free for people to interpret, people can be disagreeing with a lot of things catholicism was responsible for or was/is standing for, but they can still believe in a God from a Catholic perspective. Religion nowadays isn't that black and white anymore, it's modernizing... People realize that older ideas are proven wrong by science, that presumptions made in earlier centuries aren't really that plausible anymore.
I don't think for instance that there are that many Catholics left in the world that still believe that the Earth is the centre of the Universe... ;)
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Sir Auros
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Post by Sir Auros »

But the thing is, the OFFICIAL stance on things still tends to be backwards, it's become too stagnant and I still think that it (like pretty much all organized religions) tends to serve the people in power the most and just sedate the worshippers.
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If they don't actually follow...

Post by Denyer »

...they're not practising Catholics, but are simply inspired by a particular set of teachings.

To apply Dilbert logic, it's the difference between pledging support for Hitler's ideals and simply saying that I agreed with him on vegetarianism.
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Post by Houbatron »

Originally posted by Sir Auros
But the thing is, the OFFICIAL stance on things still tends to be backwards, it's become too stagnant and I still think that it (like pretty much all organized religions) tends to serve the people in power the most and just sedate the worshippers.
Agreed. The problem I think is indeed that the official stance on a certain subject is always the last thing to change in Catholicism, the Vatican isn't really that progressive... :( Afraid to alienate itself from the more fanatical supporters I think.
Anyways, fun talking to you Sir Auros, but it's 1:50am over here and I think my bed is calling me... Good night! ;)
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