Dreamwave 1-3 & Preview Reviewed [SPOILERS]

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Cliffjumper
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Dreamwave 1-3 & Preview Reviewed [SPOILERS]

Post by Cliffjumper »

This is gonna be on my site, but I thought I'd give it a dry run here:

PREVIEW

Plot Summary:
Somewhere in the Arctic, a mysterious man named Lazarus is leading a business man named Ratzenberg to a rendezvous, in order to persuade him to invest in a new project. After both philosophize, Lazarus tells Ratzenberg about a race of transforming warriors who arrived on Earth millions of years ago. Lazarus' excavation team reach their goal, and Lazarus explains to Ratzenberg the possibilities of controlling such warriors. As the pair reach the site, the workers uncover the dormant Soundwave. Ratzenberg is impressed enough to invest on the spot.
Notes:
Although at the time of writing Dreamwave have given no official word, Soundwave's colour scheme would hint at a cartoon-based continuity. Soundwave is the only Transformer seen. Although there is no date given in the story, later issues will show that this prelude takes place in 2001/2002.
Review:
Total non-event. It makes absolutely no difference whether you read this 7-page strip or not. The tediously obvious Lazarus waffles for most of it, and so far the forthcoming plot is hideously exposed - Lazarus is the standard arrogant Earth scientist who thinks he can control a dreadful technology for his own good. Gee, I wonder if it'll backfire on him... Then we finally get past the cod-philosophizing of him and the equally uninteresting Ratzenberg, we get a single page of Soundwave under a pile of ice, and the thing finishes. The art is good, but to be honest in 21st century comics, that's par for the course, and Lee hasn't shown anything he didn't in the similarly style-over-substance Dark Minds series. A cynical money-making exercise, which does not bode well for the limited series. If you haven't got it, don't buy it.
Issue 1

Plot Summary:
A South American rebel camp is wiped out by a mysterious robot. Back in Ohio, Spike Witwicky is picked up for an interview by an army general named Hallo, from the Development of War Technology Department, who tells Spike he must accompany him to his base. Out in Canada's Northwest Territories, Lazarus takes a terrorist named Bishop to see his weaponry. After the humans depart, their jeep transforms into a robot to guard their backs. Lazarus shows Bishop the a controlled robot, and tells him it is the future of warfare. Spike now visits the DWT at the Pentagon, where he discusses the Ark II tragedy with Hallo [see notes]. He then shows Spike satellite footage of the rebel camp's destruction, which shows Megatron to be responsible. Lazarus explains to Bishop that he controls the Transformers, but as the humans walk away, a flash of life comes to Megatron's optics. Back in Washington, Hallo shows Spike that they have been able to recover one Transformer - Optimus Prime.
Notes:
The Transformers show in this issue are Megatron, Hound [jeep mode, and robot mode torso], Starscream [lower legs only] and Optimus Prime. The continuity this story takes place in is unclear - if indeed it is set in any particular continuity. In 1998, the Earth's governments unified to join the Autobots in defeating the Decepticons. The battle was initially a stalemate, until a pilot named Rudy "Red" Kingsley sacrificed himself to give the Autobots an opening. The Autobots then planned to leave the planet on the new Ark II spaceship, with the Decepticons their prisoners. The Ark II tragedy took place on June 24th 1999. The Ark II took off from Earth with the Autobots, their Decepticon prisoners and seven human guests [Mark Marsh, an American engineer; Akira Yashimura, a Japanese biologist; Rolf Meyer, a German chemist; Linda Richards, an American sociologist; Rudolph Vesic, a Russian architect; Henry Lanson, an Oxford professor; and "Sparkplug" Witwicky, Spike's father and one of the Autobots' first allies], bound for Cybertron, but exploded several minutes after launch for unknown reasons. Spike's brother Buster, a comic-only character, is mentioned, and as yet the story is reconcilable with the Marvel run - in the UK G1 continuity, there's a long gap between 1995 and 2006 where we have no idea what happens to the Transformers. The scale of the Transformers relative to the humans would also seem to favour the comic over the cartoon. However, Spike doesn't quite feel the same as the comic counterpart. Aside from changing his hair colour, this Spike certainly seems more involved with the Transformers than he did in the Marvel comic [where he was a latecomer, then left after about a year], unless after returning to Fortress Maximus his relations with the Autobots improved a lot.
Review:
A big disappointment. Dragging out the plot in this way suggests padding, which beggars the question why produce a six-issue series if there's the plot for four issues? The pedestrian pace is further ridiculed by the unbelievably crass infodump of a two-page mock-newspaper story at the back of the comic. Forgive me for being naïve, but shouldn't the comic tell the story itself? Lee's visuals are again aesthetically pleasing, but often unnecessary - for example, for the good on the narrative the indulgences on page 2, 4, 14 and 21 should have been slimmed down for expediency's sake. It would have been infinitely better to have shown Spike having a flashback to the events leading up to the Ark II [What a stupid name for a spaceship! The thing crashed on its maiden voyage. It's like someone building a Titanic II.], far preferable to a large number of redundant frames and the article - it's almost as if Saccarini doesn't think readers would be able to work it out for themselves, and need it literally spelt out for them in black and white. Lazarus continuities to grate - the denouement is currently so obvious that you begin to wonder if it's going to be the twist that he does get away with it. This issue is the sort of thing that should have been in the preview. Basically, Dreamwave don't seem to have learned from Marvel. This seems incredibly obvious, but they haven't realised - it's not humans that make a Transformers comic interesting, it's Transformers. Or, a little more obvious, I quote Monty Python and the Holy Grail: "GET ON WITH IT!".

Issue 2

Plot Summary:
Hallo explains to Spike that his men have been unable to revive Optimus Prime. Spike places a piece of the Matrix given to him by Prime in the Autobot's chest, and he awakes. Meanwhile, an Arctic oil refinery is attacked by a squad of controlled Transformers, both Autobot and Decepticon. Laserbeak relays the footage to Lazarus, who uses it as a pitch to various terrorist leaders at an auction. However, Megatron reveals himself to be in control, and prepares to take control of the operation. Optimus Prime, Spike and Hallo are in the Arctic, where Prime uses the Matrix to revive a handful of his warriors left unfound by Lazarus. Meanwhile, the team who raided the oil refinery return to base, only to find it in chaos - the Decepticons have taken over.
Notes:
Optimus Prime gave Spike a fragment of the Matrix. Prime also uses the Matrix to revive a handful of dormant Autobots - Jazz, Mirage, Sunstreaker, Sideswipe, Wheeljack, Trailbreaker and Superion. The controlled Transformers used to raid the base are Grimlock, Soundwave, Bumblebee, Starscream, Thundercracker, Rumble [presumably - the blue cassette-robot is unnamed, but as generally the cartoon colour schemes are used, I'm going with Rumble until proven otherwise. Also, the comic Frenzy showed no pile-driver capability], Ravage, Prowl and Laserbeak.
Review:
This is much better. It's still not classic, and Lee still wastes too much of the book in pointless frames, but at least the plot moves. Megatron coming to his senses and taking over from Lazarus was painfully obvious ever since the Preview, but at least it's out of the way now and the main plot can be expounded upon. Sadly, some of Saccarini's dialogue is risible [most notably, Optimus Prime's "Welcome back, boys. It's been a while" nonsense], but at least then Transformers are beginning to get lines, as opposed to the hypocritical Spike [who willingly places himself in a war, and is then embittered by the consequences], the stereotypical decent-guy-but-with-a-job-to-do General Hallo and the tedious Lazarus. If the mini-series can continue this upwards trend, it might cut the mustard yet.
Issue 3

Plot Summary:
The military take Optimus Prime to the Arctic oil refinery. The Autobot is shocked by the devastation, but Spike is adamant that he contributed to Earth being in such a position because of his part in the war. The military locate Lazarus' base, and Prime leads the Autobots to confront Megatron. The Decepticons are settling into the base, and Megatron has revived four warriors to back him up. He has rigged up a device which will turn the planet into a replica of Cybertron, and sets it working. Lazarus is swept over by the metallic liquid. Megatron then prepares to meet Prime's force. He confronts the Autobots, and gives them the choice to join him in ruling the new-look planet. Optimus refuses, but is shaken when he finds that the reactivated Grimlock sides with Megatron. Both sides scuffle, but Hallo takes the chance to deploy a massive bomb on the Transformers, and Megatron's advancing device.
Notes:
Megatron has revived Starscream, Thundercracker, Skywarp, Soundwave, Laserbeak [spelt incorrectly, as Lazerbeak] and Grimlock. The three jets amuse themselves by dismembering the bodies of Cliffjumper and Bumblebee, amongst others. Megatron uses Ironhide, Hound, Prowl, Ratchet and possibly others to power his device. The story is almost certainly set in neither continuity - if it was set in the comic continuity, Prime is already by now well aware of the damage the war has caused to Earth, whereas Spike refers to Sparkplug having a negative first reaction to the Transformers, which contradicts the cartoon... That said, the comic Sparkplug would probably have never agreed to get on the Ark II in the first place.
Review:
Typical. Lee gets to the action, and makes a mess of it. Visual padding's as prominent here as ever before, and when the factions finally clash, it's totally mishandled. Autobots and Decepticons scuffle with each other like extras from a bar fight scene in a forties film, and Grimlock just disappears after his scene. Taking of whom, why are Lee's most prominent plot points so far lifted from cartoon episodes? Grimlock did the defection thing in "War of the Dinobots", and the device seems ripped from "The Key to Vector Sigma, Part Two". Would it be too much to ask for a few new ideas? Talking of which, where does Megaton get the device? Did he make it when Lazarus wasn't looking? Has it been kicking around for 17 years, like the plot for this thing? The dialogue's terrible, from Starscream's pathetic "Evil is always fun!" [chew on that, Raksha...] to the incredibly lame comedy with the Radio Operator and Hallo ["Forward me the exact coordinates immediately" "What?" "Forward me the exact coordinates immediately" "What?... I'll forward you the exact coordinates immediately"]. It's almost as if Lee's art came first, and Saccarini had to fit his plot to the visuals. Again, the art's good in general, though it's nowhere near as expressive as, say, Geoff Senior, and falls down big-time when it should deliver in the fight scenes. Spike's even more hypocritical too, while Hallo is now just a stereotypical military buffoon. Maybe if Dreamwave spent less time trying to bleed money out of the fans with multiple covers and posters, and more time on actually making a decent comic, this would be a nice run-around. But they didn't, and it isn't.
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Post by Shrapnel Clone »

Spelling check:

Preview plot:
Line 3: philosophize = philosophise
Line 18: cod-philosophizing = cod-philosophising

Issue 1 plot:
Line 5: the a controlled robot

Issue 1 review:
Line 4: infodump = info dump

General remarks:
I'd remove the names of all the irrelevant scientists, only Sparkplug is important here.
Might want to mention the whole Superion thing....

About the fights: I like them. Because we only get flashes of all scenes, it makes the impression to me that it's more, well, active.
Also, the fights are finally cool. Superion tries to splatter Soundwave, one of the jets is getting strangled by I think it was Jazz... Didn't see that kind of stuff in the cartoon, for example (and rarely in the comics).
"I dunno about you, but whenever I get confused I always mutilate the person next to me."
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Post by Cliffjumper »

Cheers for the typo look-out Kickback... bloody Dreamwave Us spell check :)

As for the scientists, I think I'll cut it at the end of the series if it's proven irrelevant... At this rate, Saccarini's going to claim Lazarus was one of them... I might just type up the info dump, ooops, newspaper article to a seperate page...

Whole Superion thing? Hmm, unless I missed something he didn't do a lot more than get revived, and get involved in a lame comedy scene with Prime... Apparently Op's quite easy to sneak up on, even if you're about 100 ft tall...

Oh, and I'm not keen on the fights ;)
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Re: Dreamwave 1-3 & Preview Reviewed [SPOILERS]

Post by MeGrimlock »

Originally posted by Quicksilver
This is gonna be on my site, but I thought I'd give it a dry run here
I really appreciate it, because haven't got issue 1 and 2.
Thanx very much,
:)
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Post by Cliffjumper »

Aaah... if you're gonna be expecting the scans as well... well, fraid not... for a start I've only just got my bandwidth under control... and while I have no problem with stopping Dreamwave from getting money, Pat cares only for his bank balance and would close my humble site down like that... erm, if you really can't get them , I can have a look at filesizes and see about mailing them to you, but no promises :)
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Post by MeGrimlock »

Originally posted by Quicksilver
if you're gonna be expecting the scans as well... well, fraid not...
Don't worry, summaries are what I was looking for.
:)
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Post by Cliffjumper »

Cool cool... If ya interested, the G1 Preview's at http://geocities.com/tommy_the_saint_uk/index.html :)
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Post by Starscreamsghost »

I think Kickback's referring to the fact that Superion hasn't separated into the individual Aerialbots, and that he was inexplicably in formation when the Ark II went down...might also want to take this chance to vent about Mirage's head...
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Post by CounterPunch »

i do not like the mouths in this series, i found that when superion is fighting sounwave his mouth is too round, im sure prime is coloured purple a the beginning of issue 3, i would say the new comic fits into varying continuities because it has aspects from both comic and cartoon. mirages head is made to look more like the comic version i think. i like it, oh and quickie im growin to really love ur site i like the comic biographies and well most of the other stuff as well.
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Post by Shrapnel Clone »

Originally posted by Starscreamsghost
I think Kickback's referring to the fact that Superion hasn't separated into the individual Aerialbots, and that he was inexplicably in formation when the Ark II went down
What's the word again? Yeeeeeeeeessssssss.....
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Post by Osku »

Originally posted by Starscreamsghost
I think Kickback's referring to the fact that Superion hasn't separated into the individual Aerialbots, and that he was inexplicably in formation when the Ark II went down...
It could be a hint to what caused the destruction of Ark II. It´d have no sense them being combined if there was not a fight aboard the ship. The other explanation is Lee´s/Saccarini´s laziness. I´ll give them a benefit of doubt yet. ;)
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Post by Scourge »

-I think some of you guys are just taking this new comic a little too seriously . . . or at least more seriously than Pat does (and I do.)

-In this series, I think he is trying to take the 'best of both worlds'-- comic and cartoon (which I'll admit leaves a LOT to debate, but he's gone with what he likes from both series) and create his own vision of the Transformers. He draws heavily on the simple action-based cartoon while throwing in a few plot bones for the comic fanatics. The plot is *about* on par with the cartoon. Any disagreement there? Nothing much happens and the story is easy to follow. We have very cartoon villains and very cartoon heros. They are simple and exaggerated--good guys--good but stupid; bad guys--bad but smart. The 'twists' are mild enough for even the youngest of readers to follow and the story does not get in the way of appreciating the main event: giant robots that turn into stuff and fight. Comic references are made so that this series can fit into the comic continuity somewhat. Cartoon references are also made so that the series can fit into the cartoon continuity somewhat . . . many would point out that the two worlds contradict each other. And really the two stories do not mesh, but that's what Pat's trying to do. He's just trying to make a chunk of story that is not strictly comic or cartoon in basis. He wants it to be more universal. So he takes parts of both. A bunch of good ol' cartoon action and a tiny bit of comic continuity. Additionally, there are new plot points thrown in, though they don't seem to contradict anything (take Pat's position for a second--do you want to do something the exact same way it's been done before?) This bothers people more . . . but why? I really don't understand it . . .

-Dialogue? Well, I think that was for those fans who haven't paid any attention to the Transformers since the 80s. Just imagine it sounding like it were a movie . . . yes, I know, it's not the same, but who cares? If one thing's clear by now, it's that 'Transformers' is not confined to one way of storytelling. The early Marvel series definitely had its stupid points, plot and dialogue-wise. You're all expecting it to be like the older iterations, well, I'm sure we could find some parallels here too.

-Then there's the art. It's probably the most important thing to Pat, as one of the head artists behind this series. And it shows. It's not perfect for sure, but the art is pretty and it's fun to look at, even if it doesn't always make perfect visual sense . . . but then, it is a comic afterall. Honestly, what more do want? Does it matter that much that Prime isn't looking straight up at the bomb dropping? Do you really care that a Transformers comic has a few visual idiosyncrasies?

-And this whole 'they're trying to rob us' thing? That is complete and utter silliness. You don't have to spend anything on these comics, and if you don't like them, that's what I suggest you do. Dreamwave has paid for the rights and they're within those rights doing what they want with the series. They're putting out the posters and other tie-ins out because the fans want them, which is the same thing is 'because they sell.' See, in order to get money out of people, they have to provide what those people want. Maybe they are trying to make money, but that's ALWAYS been what Transformers is really about. Hasbro, Takara, Marvel and everybody else who's carried the TF banner has used what we all want to make money. That's just how it is. Don't gripe because they're making money by providing people with the Transformers stuff they want. And the multiple covers? They make them because (again) people want them. Yes, it's a gimmick and yes it's another means of getting money out of us, but at the same time, with each unique cover we get something else. If we think it's worth $3 for another cover and piece of poster, then it's worth it for them to make them. They can do these things because people will support it. But, again, if it's not worth it to you, don't buy them!

-But after all is said and done, one thing is obvious: this is Pat's baby. He was excited about doing this, and I really don't think it was just to line his pockets. From reading about him and his reaction to getting to do the TF comic on the net, it sounded as if he was genuinely excited about drawing Transformers. And the comic will be what it is. You can either try to appreciate it as Pat intended it, or you can gripe about how it's not what you would have done. I for one will try to enjoy it to the fullest.
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Post by jetscream1001 »

what Scourge said;)
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Post by Osku »

Originally posted by Scourge
-In this series, I think he is trying to take the 'best of both worlds'-- comic and cartoon (which I'll admit leaves a LOT to debate, but he's gone with what he likes from both series) and create his own vision of the Transformers. He draws heavily on the simple action-based cartoon while throwing in a few plot bones for the comic fanatics. The plot is *about* on par with the cartoon. Any disagreement there? Nothing much happens and the story is easy to follow.
The story is written by Chris Saccarini, not Pat Lee. Lee isn´t doing the wole series by himself...
Much of what I criticize is just what you say; It´s like a cartoon episode, not very good plot and nothing much happens.
Originally posted by Scourge
Additionally, there are new plot points thrown in, though they don't seem to contradict anything (take Pat's position for a second--do you want to do something the exact same way it's been done before?) This bothers people more . . . but why? I really don't understand it . . .
There are not very much new plot points. That´s the problem IMO. Most of the plot we´ve seen so far has been done in Transformers already.
Originally posted by Scourge
-Dialogue? Well, I think that was for those fans who haven't paid any attention to the Transformers since the 80s. Just imagine it sounding like it were a movie . . . yes, I know, it's not the same, but who cares?
I do care. One issue costs me 4.80 euros, which is a lot in my opinion. I´m buying a comic book, not a cartoon/movie. The dialogue that might work in movie isn´t usually good in comics.
Dialogue isn´t terrible, but it leaves a lot to hope for. Plus transformers speak like humans "Welcome back boys. It´s been a long time." It doesn´t sound like Prime, does it?
Originally posted by Scourge
-Then there's the art. It's probably the most important thing to Pat, as one of the head artists behind this series. And it shows. It's not perfect for sure, but the art is pretty and it's fun to look at, even if it doesn't always make perfect visual sense . . . but then, it is a comic afterall. Honestly, what more do want?
"It is a comic afterall." Ever read of good comics? ;) I want a comic book, not pin up pictures. Posters by Lee are nice, but there´s no sense of movement in his pictures, his perspectives are not very imaginative(?). Style over substance, not to my liking.

Still this is the first mini-series they´re making. It´s not perfect, I haven´t liked it so far (3 first issues). But they are listening to the feedback (impression I have had) and hopefully do better in the future.
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Post by Cliffjumper »

Originally posted by Scourge
-In this series, I think he is trying to take the 'best of both worlds'-- comic and cartoon (which I'll admit leaves a LOT to debate, but he's gone with what he likes from both series) and create his own vision of the Transformers. He draws heavily on the simple action-based cartoon while throwing in a few plot bones for the comic fanatics. The plot is *about* on par with the cartoon. Any disagreement there? Nothing much happens and the story is easy to follow.
Yes, it's on par with the cartoon. trouble is, at least half the time the cartoon was utter rubbish. Lee & Saccarini don't have the excuses that the cartoon writers & animators have [rushed, pressure from Hasbro etc.].
Additionally, there are new plot points thrown in, though they don't seem to contradict anything (take Pat's position for a second--do you want to do something the exact same way it's been done before?) This bothers people more . . . but why? I really don't understand it . . .
Erm, I'd love it if he did something new. But I can't spot anything new in the first 3 issues or the Preview....
-Then there's the art. It's probably the most important thing to Pat, as one of the head artists behind this series. And it shows. It's not perfect for sure, but the art is pretty and it's fun to look at, even if it doesn't always make perfect visual sense . . . but then, it is a comic afterall. Honestly, what more do want? Does it matter that much that Prime isn't looking straight up at the bomb dropping? Do you really care that a Transformers comic has a few visual idiosyncrasies?
When the Hell did I say any of that? Stop making **** up, for lawd's sake... The art is pretty, but undynamic.
Hasbro, Takara, Marvel and everybody else who's carried the TF banner has used what we all want to make money. That's just how it is. Don't gripe because they're making money by providing people with the Transformers stuff they want. And the multiple covers? They make them because (again) people want them. Yes, it's a gimmick and yes it's another means of getting money out of us, but at the same time, with each unique cover we get something else. If we think it's worth $3 for another cover and piece of poster, then it's worth it for them to make them. They can do these things because people will support it. But, again, if it's not worth it to you, don't buy them!
I don't buy them, and it is as simple as that. How many people here would be happy with a single comic per issue, with a wraparound cover? I dare you to point out somewhere Marvel, Hasbro or Takara released the same thing SIX times in different packaging. I think even Bumblebee only got out 3 times....
You can either try to appreciate it as Pat intended it, or you can gripe about how it's not what you would have done. I for one will try to enjoy it to the fullest.
Appreciate it as how Pat intended it? Surely this negates criticising anything?

"Oh, Monstercon from Mars is a pile of ****"
"Ah, you just aren't appreciating it from how Bob intended it."

I am trying to enjoy the series. But it's proving difficult. So I express my opinions on it. And you've basically said to me "you don't like it, shut up!". Which isn't how I work.
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Post by BigMaki »

I think my problem thus far has been that the limited series has been an incredibly shallow affair. How long does it take you to read an issue? 5 minutes, tops? Sure, you can linger on the art, I guess, but as far as following the story, there's not much there.

My main problem is that this was billed as a more mature version of the TF's, since they know that all the G1 fans are into adulthood now. What has been more mature about this series? The fact that some humans get squished in issue 1? Now we're saying it's like an episode of the cartoon, which is decidedly immature. There are so many ways they could have explored deeper territory regarding Lazarus and what his goal was, as well as its implications on our society, but it becomes simply a cool way to have Megatron take over and start a speech.

And with Lazarus -- why spend a couple issues introducing the guy only to have him coated in metal stuff an issue later? It seems they had some ideas, but never took them anywhere, since the fight scenes had to last for so many panels and pages.

I've been disappointed up to this point. It's nice to have a good artist drawing TF's, finally. (Sorry Cliffy, but I have to admit I never thought Senior was that good.) But even with Lee's art, the inking seems to be off. Edges get thicker or thinner from panel to panel (Optimus seems to exhibit this most often.) Not sure what the deal is there. Granted, I'll get the next 3 issues to see how it wraps up, but I'm looking forward to Furman's series immensely at this point. We know he's capable of doing great things with it. The question is: will Dreamwave let him?

With that said, what is the ETA for issue 4 in the US?

Edit: Can you notice that I work at a newspaper, breaking paragraphs as often as I can? :)
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Post by Cliffjumper »

The pace has been my biggest problem. The 4 issues so far [including the Preview] could have been condensed to one and a half... And i think issue 3 has given us the only worthwhile cliffhanger so far. Lee uses whole pages to show what a decent visual storyteller would have done in a frame. It's padded.

And with Lazarus, how derivative is that character? The "I'll revive alien warriors as my weapons, boy I hope they don't regain their senses" angle has been used about 10-20 times in Doctor Who alone... As I said above, it's so obvious you begin to wonder if the twist will be that he gets away with it.

I'd also like to name the newspaper article as the single most pathetic, lazy piece of storytelling I've ever seen in a comic. And I own the Avengers Strikefile.
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Post by Scourge »

Originally posted by Osku

The story is written by Chris Saccarini, not Pat Lee. Lee isn´t doing the wole series by himself...
Much of what I criticize is just what you say; It´s like a cartoon episode, not very good plot and nothing much happens.
I agree that the plot for the Dreamwave run is not as engaging or even as 'good' as the end of the Marvel series, I just ask that you concede that a gripping storyline might not be what Saccarini was shooting for. He wanted to stay away from too complex a story that would cut off his audience. He wanted a popcorn or candy comic, not a meal of a comic with real substance. The story isn't what satisfies here. It's not an epic; it's not a myth. It's a summer blockbuster. But the story is generally unobtrusive enough not to bother . . . well, unobtrusive for me anyway. (Oh, and I understood Lee wasn't writing, he just seems to be getting the brunt of the blame, plus, I'm sure he has a strong influence.)

There are not very much new plot points. That´s the problem IMO. Most of the plot we´ve seen so far has been done in Transformers already.
Yeah, that comes with the cartoonish territory. How much of an over-arching story did we get from the three years of cartoon? It (and the new comic) was largely episodic--again, so that the casual fan can pick up an issue and not miss out on too much becuase he/she hasn't read the reast of the mini-series. Not saying that's great, but it has its own charm.

I do care. One issue costs me 4.80 euros, which is a lot in my opinion. I´m buying a comic book, not a cartoon/movie. The dialogue that might work in movie isn´t usually good in comics.
Dialogue isn´t terrible, but it leaves a lot to hope for. Plus transformers speak like humans "Welcome back boys. It´s been a long time." It doesn´t sound like Prime, does it?
I respect the fact that 4.80 euros is a lot for a comic, but the sad fact is: the writers won't change things just for you. You have to be willing to buy into the vision of the comic creators to fully enjoy the comic. You could imagine the characters moving as if they were animated, with ambient noise, and a movie delivery of the lines . . . you just don't want that? That's fine, but my whole point is that you should accept the comic as is or not bother with it. Write what you want, but try to appreciate different aproach. Do what you can to change the experience for the better. Wouldn't you rather get your money's worth and imagine it in a new way? But again, it's your choice. You have to decide when it's not worth 4.80 . . .

"It is a comic afterall." Ever read of good comics? ;) I want a comic book, not pin up pictures. Posters by Lee are nice, but there´s no sense of movement in his pictures, his perspectives are not very imaginative(?). Style over substance, not to my liking.


Sure I've read good comics. I think Lee just doesn't think it's that important to have solid story-telling imagery. It's not about the story as much as the simple action figure kicks. It's fun . . . nothing more. It's not a refined story or refined story-telling like other comics. And clearly, it's not what you guys wanted . . . sadly, they ain't gonna do nothin' about it. They're looking to sate the masses, not the followers. But eventually, we'll get ours too . . . (at least I hope we will.)

Still this is the first mini-series they´re making. It´s not perfect, I haven´t liked it so far (3 first issues). But they are listening to the feedback (impression I have had) and hopefully do better in the future.
;)

I too hope to get some good stories out of Dreamwave, but I'm not holding my breath for the G1 series. That doesn't mean I won't have fun with it.
Originally posted by Quicksilver

Lee & Saccarini don't have the excuses that the cartoon writers & animators have [rushed, pressure from Hasbro etc.].


Do you know how many series Pat's working on? Or how much time that entails? There's pressure to get this stuff done. Maybe that's his fault for taking on so much, but to say he's not working under time constraints is ignorant.

Erm, I'd love it if he did something new. But I can't spot anything new in the first 3 issues or the Preview....


Well, there is the whole 'leading up to' storyline. Nobody's ever tried to tell that story (this time is a gap in the cartoon and largely unexplored territory in the comic.) I'll admit it's none too original, but I think we've established that the story is no masterpiece. And what's wrong with the name Ark II? Named after the Autobot's original ship to Earth? A reference to the old comics? (other post)

When the Hell did I say any of that? Stop making **** up, for lawd's sake... The art is pretty, but undynamic.


So you're the only person I might be responding to? . . . I'd read it on other threads. I'm not trying to be confrontational here.

I don't buy them, and it is as simple as that. How many people here would be happy with a single comic per issue, with a wraparound cover? I dare you to point out somewhere Marvel, Hasbro or Takara released the same thing SIX times in different packaging. I think even Bumblebee only got out 3 times....


I respect that you don't like or buy the comics and that you trash them online. You have your opinions and I have mine. Mine is that the alternate covers, interior posters, etc. as a means of reprint is valid. The covers, interior posters, etc. are all a part of the final product and a different cover makes a different product. You guys have said it yourselves. Pat is best at poster art. So that's what you're buying the second time around--a poster. You'd still spend $3 for it if it was all by itself in a poster rack (or I would.) None of it is ultimately discarded (maybe by you ;) ) but my point is: you can't make the comparison to toy packaging. Most people do not care about just the packaging. While we just about all like MISB toys, most of us could care less about the box by itself. I like the variant covers and posters. PLUS, the last two reprints of issue one were so that comic retailers could get them in stock. Around here, they've been selling out the moment they get in. These re-issues were not initially planned.

Appreciate it as how Pat intended it? Surely this negates criticising anything?

"Oh, Monstercon from Mars is a pile of ****"
"Ah, you just aren't appreciating it from how Bob intended it."

I am trying to enjoy the series. But it's proving difficult. So I express my opinions on it. And you've basically said to me "you don't like it, shut up!". Which isn't how I work.
Actually, I should have listed three options. The first two I listed were: enjoy it the way Pat intended it or gripe about it. I never said you should shut up, though you are free to make use of that option . . . though as you say, that's not your way, is it?
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Denyer
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Post by Denyer »

Originally posted by Scourge
-I think some of you guys are just taking this new comic a little too seriously . . . or at least more seriously than Pat does
That's a bad sign, when fans can script more believable dialogue and plot structure then paid writers.

Currently the only reason to buy this title is the art, and even that went downhill in issue #3.

Bring on The War Within.
Cliffjumper
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Post by Cliffjumper »

Right, stuff I've edited out of the quotes isn't because I disregard it, but because I'm trying to keep this readable :)
Originally posted by Scourge
I agree that the plot for the Dreamwave run is not as engaging or even as 'good' as the end of the Marvel series, I just ask that you concede that a gripping storyline might not be what Saccarini was shooting for....But the story is generally unobtrusive enough not to bother . . . well, unobtrusive for me anyway. (Oh, and I understood Lee wasn't writing, he just seems to be getting the brunt of the blame, plus, I'm sure he has a strong influence.)
That's the point. They should really have gone for a better storyline. It's possible to write a great story, and make it easily accessible for new readers [when I read New X-Men's "E is for Extinction", my knowledge of X-Men was about the same as your average comic-buyer's of Transformers, and it left me with no questions]... If you ask me, Lee is clearly calling the shots, and Saccarini writes what he's told to. That might not be true, but that's what it feels like. The storyline almost seems an afterthought.
Yeah, that comes with the cartoonish territory. How much of an over-arching story did we get from the three years of cartoon? It (and the new comic) was largely episodic--again, so that the casual fan can pick up an issue and not miss out on too much becuase he/she hasn't read the reast of the mini-series. Not saying that's great, but it has its own charm.
Yes, and the cartoon is poor on the whole just for treating its audience generally like they're stupid. Yes, the Dreamwave comic is as cerebral as an average cartoon episode. But frankly, that's not good enough. I have no problem with the series being episodic - generally the Marvel comic often was, but do DW have to be so painfully slow about it? Lee's constant visual padding/self-indulgence means we get whole pages were absolutely nothing happens.
Sure I've read good comics. I think Lee just doesn't think it's that important to have solid story-telling imagery. It's not about the story as much as the simple action figure kicks. It's fun . . . nothing more. It's not a refined story or refined story-telling like other comics. And clearly, it's not what you guys wanted . . . sadly, they ain't gonna do nothin' about it. They're looking to sate the masses, not the followers. But eventually, we'll get ours too . . . (at least I hope we will.)
The fact that Lee values art over story is the main reason I'm not too keen on the comics... I can't think of a single worthwhile comic that takes this approach. And as for DW not listening, that's accepted, but it doesn't mean we shouldn't say it. This whole board is full of people saying "Why don't X do Y?" or "I'd like it if A did B with C". It's part of what this board's about :)
Do you know how many series Pat's working on? Or how much time that entails? There's pressure to get this stuff done. Maybe that's his fault for taking on so much, but to say he's not working under time constraints is ignorant.
Well, I phrased the original badly. He's not under the same time constraints as the cartoon animators, where many many frames ahve to be done in a short period of time... But contstraints obviously do exist. That said, maybe he would find more time if he wasn't constantly banging out alternate covers and posters?
And what's wrong with the name Ark II? Named after the Autobot's original ship to Earth? A reference to the old comics? (other post)
Exactly what I said about it.
So you're the only person I might be responding to? . . . I'd read it on other threads. I'm not trying to be confrontational here.
No, no I don't. I just hadn't seen it elsewhere. Maybe a few thread names? :)

Pat is best at poster art. So that's what you're buying the second time around--a poster. You'd still spend $3 for it if it was all by itself in a poster rack (or I would.) None of it is ultimately discarded (maybe by you ;) ) but my point is: you can't make the comparison to toy packaging. Most people do not care about just the packaging. While we just about all like MISB toys, most of us could care less about the box by itself. I like the variant covers and posters.
Why not? It's the same thing in different packaging... I fail to see a real difference. And the poster idea begs the question why not release it as posters? Becuase posters wouldn't boost sales maybe?
PLUS, the last two reprints of issue one were so that comic retailers could get them in stock. Around here, they've been selling out the moment they get in. These re-issues were not initially planned.
So why give them different covers? If they wanted to alleviate the demand a little, why not reprint one of the first-run covers with "2nd printing" inside the cover, like Marvel did back in the 1980s? If they're doing it solely for demand, why issue another variant which the fanboys will all want too?
Actually, I should have listed three options. The first two I listed were: enjoy it the way Pat intended it or gripe about it. I never said you should shut up, though you are free to make use of that option . . . though as you say, that's not your way, is it?
It wasn't actually referring to you personally, but a comment made by Ultimate Weapon in an older thread [I think Decepticon MEGATRON's Issue #3 [SPOILERS!!!!] thread]...
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