Most under-rated writers...

Post by **Hound** » Sat May 08, 2004 1:21 am

Well, why the hell not?

Judd Winick, this guy hasn't yet done anything I didn't think was great.

Peter David, how come none of his books ever do well? I loved Supergirl and Young Justice.

Chuck Dixon, this guy doesn't get the credit he deserves

Steven Grant, what a great follow up to Ellis on X-Man. Plus I've met him, nice guy. A bit of an ego though...

Cliffjumper · Post by **Cliffjumper** » Sat May 08, 2004 2:18 am

Steven Grant does rock.

Mark Waid never seems to get his dues.

David Michelene, for making Iron Man really work.

Scott Lobdell could, more often than many admit, really turn out some amazing scripts, ditto Fabien Nicieza.

Alpha Trion · Post by **Alpha Trion** » Sat May 08, 2004 2:29 am

Bob Budiansky?

Originally posted by Cliffjumper
Scott Lobdell

Cliffy beat me to it.

Jetfire · Post by **Jetfire** » Sat May 08, 2004 3:50 pm

Larry Hama.

While the mid to late 90's X-men is heavly critisied Wolverine under Hama was a consisently good comic. It was a perfect sidekick comic to X-men and really developed Logan beyond the 'I'm th best at killin' dimension. It even had a likeable Jubilee in it playing the perfect girl-sidekick to Wolverine. Hama could really write Sabertooth to be a mad killer but with much charmisa and he was really able reveal a lot about Logan but still keep much of him mysterious.

Also his G.I JOE work was always entertaining. The were more joes introduced than TF's but Hama somehow made the book a good snapshot at lots of different characters and then snapping back to the central cast

Larry Hama.

Transfannabeel · Post by **Transfannabeel** » Sat May 08, 2004 4:59 pm

agree about Waid and Judd Winick. I'd put Chuck Austen just because I he's an okay writer, and it seems like people hate him for some reason.

CounterPunch · Post by **CounterPunch** » Sat May 08, 2004 9:23 pm

i havent read any of him but would you say geoff johns is underrated? ive been hearing absolutely fantastic things about his jsa work in that its been consistently excellent since it started... again i dont know if hed be considered 'overrated' but thats who i throw to the table

the thing about chuck is that what i read is good but i do find myself skipping large numbers of pages in his issues...

Post by **Hound** » Sat May 08, 2004 10:36 pm

I'd say that that Cliffy under-rates Geoff Johns but that's only out of ignorance. Johns gets plenty of praise from Wizard, he's actually a bit over-rated probably. His Hawkman, JSA, Flash and Teen Titans books are all pretty good. I don't read Avengers...

I completely forgot about Hama, GIJoe and Wolverine by him were great in my opinion.

Scott Lobdell is fine if you ask me. He did good work on X-Men. Though any other series he's worked on weren't as good.

Chuck Austen is inconsistent. He has a tendency to mistreat characters. He's an average writer and deserves to be treated as such.

Michelenie is great!

Waid? Oh c'mon this guy was the hottest thing around for like 10 years. I don't think there's many who will say that he's anything less than great. I think he's just been low profile after being screwed around with so much lately. He's not under-rated he's under the radar...

Cliffjumper · Post by **Cliffjumper** » Sat May 08, 2004 11:08 pm

I hate Johns, but I do make it totally clear that's entirely because of what he did to The Avengers... that said, I have no desire to read anything else he did.

Austen's a hack.

Scott Lobdell did some amazing stuff - I'd actually weigh something like Fatal Attractions against a huge chunk of Claremont's work. Claremont's original run had more duff stories than many admit - immediate examples being that idiotic leprechaun storyline, and most of the Rachel stuff [oooh, the Beyonder, I give a toss...]. Some of his character development was a bit, erm, juddery too. Someone won't change for a decade, then something'll happen and they flip altogether.

Baxter · Post by **Baxter** » Sun May 09, 2004 8:41 pm

Peter David's Hulk: Future imperfect is one of the best Comics I've ever read.
I at one point had his entire run on Hulk and his run on X-factor. Both of which were great reads.
Too bad I lost alot of them as well as my entire Infinity Gauntlent series in an apartment fire in college.

Cliffjumper · Post by **Cliffjumper** » Sun May 09, 2004 10:38 pm

Peter David's Hulk run was under-rated? Then how come every time David's mentioned the phrase "definitive acclaimed Hulk run" is always almost in there somewhere. If anything, stuff like his Captain Marvel gets under-rated, because as soon as you mention it, someone starts banging on about the Hulk...

Hawkeye · Post by **Hawkeye** » Sat Jun 05, 2004 2:35 pm

Yeah peter david's books should really do better than they do everything i've read by him i greatly enjoy....as for austen yeah i dont know what he's like for other books but he must hate his job writing avengers its way worse than geoff johns avengers on principle or writing the characters ****ty in itself. theres a online comic reviewer that has coined the term "austen-verse" a universe that exists alongside the regular marvel universe in which avengers act completely different than they are "supposed" to...

one of the case in points hawkeye for soem reason is caught with the wasp by hank .......his excuse for it is that "after hank hit janet back in the day he stopped being friends with hank" now that sounds liek a good excuse till you remember that when hawkeye formed the west coast avengers he vouched for hank suggesting that even after the abuse incident that he maybe wasnt up to super-heroing he should at least join on as resident scientist....... anyway austen basically ignores everything that happened before his run and although writers shouldnt be completely bound by continuity in the face of a good story they should still have to keep it in character. anyway i rambled on a little too much but their are other worse examples of the manns ignorrance he even ignores events as far along as busiek's run. however i havent really read anything else the man has done so maybe he's better on other stuff ......*takes deep breath* waiting for brian bendis.....

Cyberstrike nTo · Post by **Cyberstrike nTo** » Sat Jun 05, 2004 10:19 pm

Peter David- The Fallen Angel this is some of his best work in years!

Barry Winsdor-Smith Some people only think of him as the Conan
artist but I dare you to try and not like Weapon X and BWS: Storyteller was one of the underrated books of all time.

John Byrne: Next Men was one of the thought-provoking books of
the 90's and still is in my opinion his masterpeice.

Jim Starlin-Lets see he killed Captian Marvel off for Marvel Comics
killed Jason Todd (Robin II) for DC, two characters that for the most part have stayed dead (outside of flashbacks or afterlife stories) He gets no way near the credit he deserves.

Cliffjumper · Post by **Cliffjumper** » Sat Jun 05, 2004 11:24 pm

What? How the Hell are John "Dark Phoenix Saga" Byrne and Jim "Captain Marvel/Thanos/Warlock" Starlin under-rated?

I reiterate my Peter David argument. He's got a huge rep as the comic fan's comic writer.

I'm gonna throw in Alan Moore, Warren Ellis, Neil Gaiman and Frank Miller as under-rated.

Come ****ing on...

Other writers that are actually under rated, in that people under rate them: -

Ann Nocenti's Daredevil run was great, even if she was as depressing as Hell [some of her Classic X back-ups were really good too]

DK Chesterton wrote some great Daredevils too - especially Last Rites. DD has had great writers for at least 75% of its run.

Alan Davis gets hailed as a great artist, but he could wheel out a few good scripts as well [late Captain Britain, his run from the 40s on Excalibur].

Dan Abnett is full-on diamond in the pile of turds stuff. UK Knights of the Pendragon = superb. Second series? Dire. Ditto DH2. And just about anything else the chap wrote.

Post by **Denyer** » Sat Jun 05, 2004 11:39 pm

I'm going to say Ellis is insufficiently rated, insofar as I'd never really heard of him until you pointed me towards The Authority.

I have difficulty remembering what Alan Moore's done, although I have more of a handle on Ennis, Morrison, Gaiman and Miller.

Despite having a reasonable spread of X-Universe knowledge... I never paid any attention to who wrote the majority of what I've read. Lobdell should get props for early Generation X stuff, though. It helps he has Bachalo and Buckingham on his team, of course, but the setup really makes it work until AoA comes along and f*cks everything up.

Does anyone read Peter David's Star Trek novels?

Cliffjumper · Post by **Cliffjumper** » Sun Jun 06, 2004 12:29 am

Originally posted by Denyer
I'm going to say Ellis is insufficiently rated, insofar as I'd never really heard of him until you pointed me towards The Authority.

Not many modern comic book writers are known beyond the comics field, to be honest, unless they work in other forms of media [my primary exposure to Gaiman was Good Omens and Neverwhere - the former, I'd say, is one of the main reasons, in the UK at least, he's close to a household name], such as J Michael Stracynski, Stan Lee. Alan Moore only gets much of his recognition through film adaptations like From Hell and League of Extraordinary Gentlemen. A very highly-regarded comic writer like, say, Kurt Busiek, will get little recognition from someone who isn't into comics...

Ellis is one of the most highly acclaimed writers in the field, reflected in that he can consistently sell a brand new universe to comic fans. He has suffered a bit of blacklash of late, but to be honest the slow dribble of Planetary will keep him in plaudits for some time.

BigMaki · Post by **BigMaki** » Sun Jun 06, 2004 12:33 am

Originally posted by Cliffjumper
He has suffered a bit of blacklash of late, but to be honest the slow dribble of Planetary will keep him in plaudits for some time.

That and his return to superhero comics with Ultimate Fantastic Four, or as he's termed it, his "year of corporate whoredom." I'll still read it. I've read some weak work by Ellis, but nothing that I've been able to consider flat-out bad.

I agree on Ann Nocenti and Daredevil, btw.

Post by **Warcry** » Mon Jun 07, 2004 5:14 am

Originally posted by Denyer
Does anyone read Peter David's Star Trek novels?

*raises hand*

His New Frontier is probably the second-best Trek lit ever produced (the DS9 relaunch is significantly better, IMO). The fact that he uses mostly minor characters or ones that he created himself lets him develop them as he sees fit, so his work seems a lot more 'real' then most of the other Trek books.

DrSpengler · Post by **DrSpengler** » Mon Jun 07, 2004 5:45 am

Sam Kieth.

The Maxx was simply awesome yet is just about forgotten. It still stands as my favorite comic series of all time.

Cyberstrike nTo · Post by **Cyberstrike nTo** » Mon Jun 07, 2004 12:53 pm

Brian K. Vahugn (I've might have mispelled his last name)
Y, The Last Man is a great and downright scary read.

Andy Diggle The Losers could be one easiest comics to movies and
his run on the new Swamp Thing series looks very intresting.

My 2 cents on Warren Ellis: He's an ok-to-average writer in my opinion on the stuff of his I've read which is basically His run on Stormwatch vol.1, Ministery of Space, Planetary/JLA and Atmospherics

Stormwatch vol.1-I'm sorry but his stuff I don't remember much about it and frankly what do remember was that I didn't like it.

Ministery of Space- Great concept but would've worked a lot better in a graphic novel. I let down by a weak ending.

Planetary/JLA: The only reason I bought this book was because of the JLA and like Cliffy said it sucked.

Atmospherics-This book sucks and is only saved by Ellis' funny as
hell afterword.

angloconvoy · Post by **angloconvoy** » Mon Jun 07, 2004 1:50 pm

Originally posted by Cliffjumper

Austen's a hack.

True, but he has struck gold a couple of times.