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Old 2017-05-24, 05:11 PM   #661
Clay
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Originally Posted by Brendocon 2.0 View Post
Well the Omnigonix one looks awful (so it's original toy accurate there, kerching). Plus every review I've seen has slated it. And when Kapow got it in stock they basically sent out an announcement saying "er, this is garbage so we've discounted the price massively from the off and are asking for a credit from our distributor".

So, yeah. Splitting hairs.
Ah, didn't know that. I was just going by the comparison collage of the three figures on the big board. Barring that, I think you still know what I mean. It's not like the Warbot Defender that was made irrelevant by the official Springer or other similar cases; all the MP Sunstreakers look spot on (fragility aside) to what they're attempting, so the mass firesale of Sunsurges because "OMG OFFICIAL" is a bit disheartening. And I don't mean to sound like this is a sudden realization. It's just an example of, "oh, that again."

Of course, I've long been the type that'll accumulate multiples of the same character just because I like to see what's done different for each attempt, so my point of view isn't going to be that of someone who's after a "definitive version" or anything like that.


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How've the humanoids responded to the fake chest? Obviously it was the end of the world when Badcube did it, despite it being the only sensible design route and even MP-10 having a fake stomach grill.
Media fans are inconsistent and contradictory?! Oh noes!


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Yeah, it's a really good figure. I'd decided to get rid of mine because I'm slimming down my toy collection massively and the third party stuff like Sunsurge is where the money is (out of print Marvel omnibuses don't pay for themselves). Now I just look like I'm ditching it because there's an official one. Yay. (It's not 200 of the Earth Dollars)
Oh, don't hide it. Be proud of your bandwaggoneering.

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Originally Posted by Denyer View Post
Can't for the life of me see why people buy 3P as placeholders. I try not to double up either, but all of the different Combaticon versions, for instance, achieve different things.
Yeah, I mean I don't see how the inevitable official versions of masterpiece Insecticons are going to be qualitatively different than the three or four sets of third party figures, but I expect people to flog the unofficial figures at that time too.


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Whilst I remember, still have any interest in that spare set of individually boxed Quantron members?
Maybe. It'd be later in the summer before I can commit. If you have another buyer lined up, by all means...
 
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Old 2017-05-24, 07:56 PM   #662
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So Sunstreaker... Not keen on that head sculpt. Also a little disappointed there doesn't appear to be a wrist rocket, just that piddly gun. Hmm, on the fence with this one.

I'm sure it's been expressed by others elsewhere on here, but I really can't understand the shift in aesthetic to cartoon accuracy with the MP line. The earlier releases took the best cues from the toy, cartoon and comic representations to give a definitive design, a true "Masterpiece". Are there really fans out there that want a shelf full of Sunbow Transformers? Who are the designers catering to?

With each new release I'm becoming less enthused with the MP line, which is disappointing as it is really the only line I collect nowadays. I've picked up a few of the Titans Returns releases, but am seriously considering selling off my classics collection to make some space. And the few G1 toys I don't have are either out of my price range, or I simply don't care enough about the character to justify tracking one down on ebay.
I would focus purely on MP, but if the designs are going to continue to be watered down I may have to put an end to a 30 year hobby!
 
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Old 2017-05-24, 08:57 PM   #663
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Originally Posted by Clay View Post
Ah, didn't know that. I was just going by the comparison collage of the three figures on the big board. Barring that, I think you still know what I mean. It's not like the Warbot Defender that was made irrelevant by the official Springer or other similar cases; all the MP Sunstreakers look spot on (fragility aside) to what they're attempting, so the mass firesale of Sunsurges because "OMG OFFICIAL" is a bit disheartening. And I don't mean to sound like this is a sudden realization. It's just an example of, "oh, that again."
I can't wrap my head around the logic either. If Sunsurge was worth spending $100 or whatever on to begin with, then surely he's worth keeping? Especially since you'll probably be losing half of what you paid for it now that the cheaper official option has gutted demand for the 3P options. On the other hand, if it's so bad that zillions of people are dumping it at a loss the second a better option presents itself (And really, we don't even know that until someone has it in hand. Just judging from the pics Sunsurge still looks like the nicer choice.) then why did anyone buy it to begin with?

Are people really so insanely impatient that they'll spend three figures on a toy they don't actually like just so it can fill a spot on a shelf for a couple years, because they just can't wait for the official version to come out? Is that actually what's happening, or am I missing something here?

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Originally Posted by Sunrunner View Post
I'm sure it's been expressed by others elsewhere on here, but I really can't understand the shift in aesthetic to cartoon accuracy with the MP line. The earlier releases took the best cues from the toy, cartoon and comic representations to give a definitive design, a true "Masterpiece". Are there really fans out there that want a shelf full of Sunbow Transformers? Who are the designers catering to?
As incomprehensible as it is to me...yeah, there really are. A ton of them. Honestly, I don't know how anyone could say with a straight face that the newer cartoon-slavish MPs are better than stuff like MP-10 or Soundwave or Sideswipe or Prowl. But a lot of of folks do. Nostalgia is a hell of a drug.

For me at least, it totally puts me off of the line. A big part of the appeal of the good MPs was that they looked like the 80s designs, but better. Like what the cartoon might have looked like if there was more budget and effort put into it. The new stuff has none of that extra polish, and more often than not it looks just as ugly as the source material. But a lot of people are absolutely giddy over it, saying that these are the toys they fantasized about having when they were little kids, so there's definitely a market.

Ah, well. At least they're making Beast Wars MPs for me now. At least with those the strict adherence to the dated, low-res CGI designs is kinda funny instead of depressing.
 
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Old 2017-05-24, 11:15 PM   #664
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Originally Posted by Warcry View Post
Are people really so insanely impatient that they'll spend three figures on a toy they don't actually like just so it can fill a spot on a shelf for a couple years, because they just can't wait for the official version to come out? Is that actually what's happening, or am I missing something here?
Yes, basically, seems to be the answer. It's astonishing, especially as it keeps happening - MP clearly has legs, HasTak are clearly mining G1 and IDW for Generations... MP isn't moving at a bad rate either - with Hoist and Trailbreaker locked down we're waiting on Jazz (clearly earmarked for a sales dip IMO), Skids, Hound and Mirage, so we're surely looking at the cars at least being done, possibly even by the end of 2018. It'd be less baffling if 3P were even close to MP prices. I guess a lot of people in the fandom just have money to burn and no sense of value for money or any patience; they want that Sunstreaker to fill the space in the cabinet NOW.

But even then I can't get my head around people selling NOW. I mean before there are even video reviews; Ratchet was apparently made out of polystyrene, there's the Rodimus and Megatron issues... there's even the slim chance that something will go wrong like a licensing hitch or financial trouble and the toy will simply not come out... You'd seriously think people would at least want to evaluate side by side.

The only 3Ps I've bought are Mirage and Impactor; the former because I think the official will have shitty injoke advertising on him and it would particularly annoy me, the latter because at the time it looked like there was no chance of a real one coming out. Now it wouldn't surprise me but it'd need to be a Voyager and those things are about 25 now which means it'd have to look pretty spiffy (and not randomly be a Headmaster or something) to bump the old one.

EDIT: I do think the colour schemes are a shame, though - looking at Ironhide I think all-red would have actually worked better as would a red head for Ratchet; not crazy about how gigantic they are compared to everyone else either. Or how tiny Bumblebee is; I'd love Bumblebee if he was just a head or so shorter than the rest but he looks like he's from a different line and I don't particularly see the point in collecting the Minibots as they'll just display terribly with the rest of the cars.
 
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Old 2017-05-25, 02:39 PM   #665
Brendocon 2.0
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Originally Posted by Cliffjumper View Post
Yes, basically, seems to be the answer. It's astonishing, especially as it keeps happening - MP clearly has legs, HasTak are clearly mining G1 and IDW for Generations... MP isn't moving at a bad rate either - with Hoist and Trailbreaker locked down we're waiting on Jazz (clearly earmarked for a sales dip IMO), Skids, Hound and Mirage, so we're surely looking at the cars at least being done, possibly even by the end of 2018. It'd be less baffling if 3P were even close to MP prices. I guess a lot of people in the fandom just have money to burn and no sense of value for money or any patience; they want that Sunstreaker to fill the space in the cabinet NOW.
Recently 3P prices aren't actually that different from regular MP rates, tbh. Sunsurge is currently on BBTS at $80, while Tracks, Hot Rod and BLUEstreak are around $75-80 (no indication as to whether those have been discounted though). Sunstreaker has just gone up for preorder at $120.

Though yeah, a lot of it is impatience. A lot of it is enraptured by the shiny. Personally I've been a bit of a victim of preconditioning from years of previous lines like Binaltech, Classics, etc, so it's taken a long time to adjust to the fact that Masterpiece isn't just going to randomly stop when Takara get bored 65% of the way through and switch to something else.

I think them announcing Inferno was the point I realised "holy ****, they're actually serious about this".

Now watch as Trailbreaker, Hoist and Skids come out in the wrong colours with tentacle rape decals all over them.

[quote]But even then I can't get my head around people selling NOW. I mean before there are even video reviews[/quote

But yeah, this. 3P as a cheap alternative (or a premium alternative, depending on where you are in the world), or a "y'know what, I actually prefer this" deal is absolutely fine. But if you're just going to sell it at the first indication that there's an official one on the horizon, then literally what is the point.

Especially based on photos of a magazine piece. Especially after the great Tracks "strategic photography angle" incident. If Sunsurge is good enough to stay on someone's shelf now then surely it's good enough to wait until you know Sunstreaker is good before throwing it on eBay (even more when everyone else has done the same thing so you're contributing to the market value being dirt).

As said, I was about to get rid of mine because I'm fundraising and clearing space. I like Sunsurge but the lack of an official version meant there was still a market for him and I might be able to replace him "properly" at some point later down the line. That's obviously no longer the case so he's back on the shelf.

Hey ho.
 
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Old 2017-05-25, 07:32 PM   #666
Warcry
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Originally Posted by Cliffjumper View Post
I guess a lot of people in the fandom just have money to burn and no sense of value for money or any patience; they want that Sunstreaker to fill the space in the cabinet NOW.
That's what it seems like to me too, but the idea is just so mental that I was hoping there was more to it. The amount of money involved in third-party stuff (or even legit MP stuff) is high enough that I can't fathom buying something that you don't actually like, but I suppose for some people "completing the set" is more important than the quality of the figures they're completing it with.

I mean, I might have thought twice about buying Hexatron if I'd known that Hasbro was going to put out their own (apparently pretty good) Sixshot a couple years later, but at the end of the day I bought it because it looked like fun and it never even occurred to me to try and flog mine when Hasbro announced TR Sixshot.

On the other hand, I'd never buy a third party figure without seeing positive reviews from people whose opinions I trust (mainly you lot) so my experience is probably a lot more positive than people who go "ZOMG SUNSTRAEKAR MUST BUY" as soon as a preorder appears.

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Originally Posted by Cliffjumper View Post
EDIT: I do think the colour schemes are a shame, though - looking at Ironhide I think all-red would have actually worked better as would a red head for Ratchet; not crazy about how gigantic they are compared to everyone else either.
I'm sure I've griped about this before, but if these figures were actual Masterpieces they'd come with a lot more swappable parts to let you customize their appearance. Parts to make an all-red Ironhide might be asking a lot, but there's absolutely no reason why they couldn't have included an alternate comic-coloured head for Ratchet, or a toy-accurate Smokescreen head, or given Wheeljack the toy-accurate launchers that Exhaust wound up with, or included toy-accurate shoulder cannons with all the Datsuns rather than just Blue Bluestreak.

I understand that Transformers are more complex, but Hasbro can include alternate heads and hands with mass-retail Marvel figures, so it's really disappointing to see the collector-oriented TF subline skimp so much on that. None of this stuff would be new tooling, so it wouldn't drive the price up too much. And it would be a nice touch for people like me who want something other than blandly slavish cartoon accuracy.

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Or how tiny Bumblebee is; I'd love Bumblebee if he was just a head or so shorter than the rest but he looks like he's from a different line and I don't particularly see the point in collecting the Minibots as they'll just display terribly with the rest of the cars.
This is another case where "show accuracy" (or rather, accuracy to the cartoon scale chart that Sunbow nerds take as gospel even though the on-screen characters were drawn to be whatever size the artists wanted) really hurt a toy. Size-wise he fits better with mainline stuff, but the fancy paint job and licensed alt-mode make him stand out like a sore thumb there too. Having the other Minibots might make things better though, since in that case you'd have a whole lineup of tiny guys you could put on a separate shelf somewhere.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brendocon 2.0 View Post
Recently 3P prices aren't actually that different from regular MP rates, tbh. Sunsurge is currently on BBTS at $80, while Tracks, Hot Rod and BLUEstreak are around $75-80 (no indication as to whether those have been discounted though). Sunstreaker has just gone up for preorder at $120.
Yeah, the cost of third-party stuff has come down over the last few years (probably because of the massive amount of competition) while the cost of official MPs has gone up (probably due to profiteering after seeing what people were paying for 3P figures), so the gap is a lot smaller than it was five years ago.

I think MP Megatron actually wound up costing significantly more than the leading third-party alternatives, didn't he?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brendocon 2.0 View Post
Though yeah, a lot of it is impatience. A lot of it is enraptured by the shiny. Personally I've been a bit of a victim of preconditioning from years of previous lines like Binaltech, Classics, etc, so it's taken a long time to adjust to the fact that Masterpiece isn't just going to randomly stop when Takara get bored 65% of the way through and switch to something else.
I'd argue that they did randomly switch to something else when they started to go hardcore Sunbow, honestly. It's at least as big of a stylistic switch as what we're used to seeing between different Generations sub-brands.

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Originally Posted by Brendocon 2.0 View Post
Especially based on photos of a magazine piece. Especially after the great Tracks "strategic photography angle" incident. If Sunsurge is good enough to stay on someone's shelf now then surely it's good enough to wait until you know Sunstreaker is good before throwing it on eBay (even more when everyone else has done the same thing so you're contributing to the market value being dirt).
On the positive (for me!) side, if the Sunsurge market crashes deeply enough I may actually pick one up for myself.
 
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Old 2017-05-25, 10:23 PM   #667
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I get buying a 3P placeholder for a character you realy like. You don't know when (or if) the MP is coming. As Brendocon pointed out, they have dropped lines before.

I can also get selling the 3P when the official one comes out. If you like the MP better, and don't need two similar renditions of the same character, sell the one you like less. You'll take a hit of a few bucks, but it's only, what, a couple times a year, max?

What I don't get is selling the 3P figure now, when the MP has just been announced. Even if you trust the MP to surpass your 3P, at least hold on to the 3P until the MP comes in. If you're going to shell out the cash to temporarily fill a spot on the shelf, fill that spot until the permanent figure is in.

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Originally Posted by Warcry View Post
I'm sure I've griped about this before, but if these figures were actual Masterpieces they'd come with a lot more swappable parts to let you customize their appearance.
That's what the alien mask is for.

I know they put it in as a joke, but since the actual head look like an ugly version of what I'd imagine TF Animated Sunstreaker to look like, it might not be a bad idea. Couldn't they have handed the designer CW Sunstreaker's head and said, "Make this bigger"?
 
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Old 2017-05-25, 10:30 PM   #668
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Maybe. It'd be later in the summer before I can commit. If you have another buyer lined up, by all means...
Haven't really tried or had time to try. The boxes can stay packed safe in a storage tub for the moment.
 
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Old 2017-05-26, 06:03 AM   #669
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What I don't get is selling the 3P figure now, when the MP has just been announced. Even if you trust the MP to surpass your 3P, at least hold on to the 3P until the MP comes in. If you're going to shell out the cash to temporarily fill a spot on the shelf, fill that spot until the permanent figure is in.
I don't think it's necessarily about the desire to fill a space on the shelf, but more about lowering your risk. If the MP does end up blowing the 3P out of the water, there's not gonna be as much demand for the 3P one anymore after that, and before you know it, you're stuck with two toys of the same guy and can't get rid of the one you like less, unless you sell it for peanuts. Before anyone can be absolutely certain about it, there's at least a chance of chucking it without feeling like you've ripped yourself off. I mean, by the time you have a legit choice between MP and 3P, some might just go for the cheaper of the two, and by then that might be the latter, and it won't benefit the seller any.

But then, I don't understand the whole urgency to get any version of a character just to fill your shelf as soon as the option to do so comes available either. Barring add-ons, accessories and such for official toys like the one for ROTF Bludgeon I reviewed, I just stay away from 3P.
 
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