Can I please have some clarification on acceptable site advertising?

Cliffjumper · Post by **Cliffjumper** » Tue Mar 02, 2004 12:36 am

Thanks...

Post by **Denyer** » Tue Mar 02, 2004 1:03 am

Since I'm the bugger who ends up compiling and wording the rules...

It's always going to be at the discretion of someone. Anyone who shows up just to advertise a site which offers little but recycled content is likely to be growled at. If it's their first post and they've turned up apparently purely to crow, for example, they're probably going to be politely or impolitely told to F off.

Having said that, the rules definitely aren't intended to stop people from sharing information and stuff they made.

What makes a reasonable interval to post mention of updates? I'd say it's mostly to do with what's added and how it's phrased. For instance, inviting feedback or suggestions is a good use of a community; you already do this in public forums with guides, essays, etc. Asking for info in the process of making something and then proudly presenting the result is also something worth sharing.

It's certainly pretty stupid that one person can't say "This site has added X, Y and Z. What do you think? Oh, by the way, it's mine." but another can post just the first two statements.

End of the day, it's a moderation judgement call, and not necessarily a pleasant one to make when you're faced with some script kiddy and his clone-a-like screencaps gallery. I don't mind a certain amount of aggro and getting someone to thwack a ban button half a dozen times, but I try to avoid specifically inviting it most of the time.

People turning up just to post links to other forums will always get a brick between the eyes, that's reasonably certain.

I'll try to condense and clarify in the main rule set.

Cliffjumper · Post by **Cliffjumper** » Tue Mar 02, 2004 1:19 am

So, in short, I can make up a topic to plug an update as long as it's a decent one? Because even in the case you made about asking for help, and then posting the results, I rarely do the latter unless it's actually relevant to the discussion [e.g. the updated Dreamwave essay, where an edited version was avaliable on my site when the original was still glued to the top of the G1 forum]. Generally I've avoided doing so, as it'd be plugging my site.

I'm just very pissed that I post a link to my site which I think covered a question posed superbly, and probably as well as any site I'm aware of, and get accused of plugging my site, then barely 12 hours later some random guy who's never been here before [or practically hasn't - and while this is a prissy point, has never contributed anything to this site either] sticks a full-blown advert in an irrelevant forum, and that's okay... it's just this thing of newbs can because they're ignorant of the rules, but Joe Regular Poster, who actually does something else, gets a nice padlock on a topic.

Urgh, I'm in quite an angry place at the moment, so this could just be total crap... but how many newbs do you honestly think read the rules? And I don't mean that rhetorically, in an "are you silly?" way, but as an honest question. It's like "I Agree to the Conditions" on software... not many people read it through first.

The fact that I'm apparently Hitler as this chap's decided to go off to a foreign country and shoot people and I haven't is a bit irritating... if I get someone at work to throw things at me and ask me to please **** off from their country...?

deej · Post by **deej** » Tue Mar 02, 2004 1:52 am

but dude - you're not the Optimus Prime... maybe you need to go get your name changed by deed poll to something transformer-ish, then you'll be free to do as you will

Post by **Denyer** » Tue Mar 02, 2004 2:24 am

deej, I couldn't give monkey's what anyone's name is.

Originally posted by Cliffjumper
I'm just very pissed that I post a link to my site which I think covered a question posed superbly, and probably as well as any site I'm aware of, and get accused of plugging my site,

Can I have a link? 'Cause I've obviously missed summat.

Yes, posted in the wrong forum, and in fact on closer inspection it may well have been better shunted to Toys, but not immensely different to any of the other mispostings which become snakes & ladders pieces. If there's anything in them which actually looks interesting, they usually find their way to an appropriate forum.

Regular posters are expected to be a little more respectful of some of the rules, though that's mostly sales posts. They tend to get locked in the case of newbies (else said people and others likely to post them won't see that the practise isn't allowed), but someone who has already had lots of time to spot the rule (which is in multiple places, I think) or a warning is generally assumed to be taking the piss.

Originally posted by Cliffjumper
how many newbs do you honestly think read the rules?

Doesn't really matter... they're there to reduce arguments... a first referral is fine, even to be expected. Ultimately, it's a case of "what one group of people says goes" but we'd much rather things were both clear and as consistent as is possible with a group of staff potentially treading on each other's toes and interpreting rules slightly differently.

As far as the person in question is concerned, I don't know him from Adam. (Turn of phrase rather than any newly discovered biblical leanings.) Didn't think he was infantry, actually. In any case, people will be judged on their behaviour here, not in other forums or countries. This isn't to say that the contribution of people to the fandom at large (ie, Rob Jung) wouldn't be recognised, merely that it doesn't confer a staff-guaranteed flame retardent suit (not, I'm sure, that most of the old timers in this fandom would either want or need one.)

In general I aim to be reasonably accomodating to newcomers, especially those who may not follow the language I'm speaking...

Cliffjumper · Post by **Cliffjumper** » Tue Mar 02, 2004 2:39 am

http://tfarchive.com/community/showthre ... adid=21793

Not to mention all the things I've done that i'd have loved some feedback on, but haven't posted any links to as as far as I knew it was against the rules - take the UK comic guide. It's only about two-thirds complete, and it's taken a massive amount of work. I'd have loved to hear some feedback on what I've done so far, but thought any topic requesting so would have been locked, or a minor battleground minimum. I didn't even feel right posting a link to a toy review in a topic requesting views on that toy, becuase it would have been against the rules. I didn't even post anything regarding my site's hiatus and return outside of my sig, and PMs with anyone who asked.

Don't get me wrong. My site exists largely for me, and a six-figure counter isn't my target. But when I've worked for a few days on something, it's nice to know it's not pointless nonsense that no bugger will read. I flatter myself that everything on my site bar the Misc. section is unique and well turned out, and for some of the things on there [e.g. my claims regarding UK #9-21's place in the timeline] are things I'd like to have discussed further in order to avoid having unintentional disinformation.

Ultimate Weapon · Post by **Ultimate Weapon** » Tue Mar 02, 2004 2:42 am

I apologize Cliffy.

Cliffjumper · Post by **Cliffjumper** » Tue Mar 02, 2004 2:48 am

Hey, you were probably just following the rules

Trust me, it's not personal offence I took at your comment, it just bemused me a bit as I didn't see what I'd done wrong - I'm still not familiar with Devvi's site enough to remember how easy it was to use if you aren't that familiar with Diaclones, and IMHO Rob Jung's decision to merge US, Japanese and European toys by year isn't a great one... plus, as I mentioned, linking to TFU would have been very time-consuming.Aside from that, I don't know a greta many relevant toy resources as [sadly

] I can do a toy list for most of the stuff [def. up to 1988] from memory for the US line...

Okay, I'll behave. Have I got the hang of this, as follows:

* - You can post about site updates as long as you're not taking the piss.

Post by **Denyer** » Tue Mar 02, 2004 2:57 am

Originally posted by Cliffjumper
take the UK comic guide.

I don't see how it's any different to essays...

http://tfarchive.com/messageboard.php

^^^ Hopefully this covers reasonable use. Basically, anything which stands as an impediment to conversation isn't good for a forum, and that's always been the basis I've tried to work on.

If people have an issue with someone in there, for f**k's sake tell me. It may not alter a situation (there are things which aren't up to me, again mostly regarding sales... and I do see the reasoning there; there are ways to discreetly and politely talk around it in any case) but I can hopefully at least clarify things.

edit:

You can post about site updates as long as you're not taking the piss.

Yeah, basically we aren't interested in people's "my 1st webpage wiv a picture of Bumblebee onnit" but we'd like to hear about a big update to other places catering to special interests. I'm expecting the usual dissection of the Trannies results when they appear, for instance.

TFDatabase is one of the places which offers content not available elsewhere (mostly the reason we keep trying to nick large chunks of it)... just like Rob's toy list, the Obscure TFs page and a range of other uniquely flavoured sites.

Places like TFw2005, Seibertron, TransFans, etc already get promotion... and, in a sense, we're in competition with them. I don't much like the word, because it suggests there's an arms race; ultimately (and I'm trying to avoid sounding pretentious and bombastic here) we're all interested in keeping the fanbase happy and supplied with shiny things. So, they're no more welcome to crow about page view statistics and gallery counts here than we would be there (assuming anyone in the fandom—okay, more than one or two people in the fandom—would dream of doing such a thing anyway...)

It's the difference between "Here, look what I did. *preens*" and "Here, I did this... what do you think? Is this bit correct? What about this?" and actually making an effort to involve oneself in a community.

Cliffjumper · Post by **Cliffjumper** » Tue Mar 02, 2004 3:00 am

Originally posted by Denyer
I don't see how it's any different to essays...

Hmm, I'd say for me the difference is that essays I generally post here to instigate a discussion/fight/contract on Pat Lee, then dust up a little and archive to my site... whereas the comic guide is a pre-designed part of my site, and would also have to be linked to, rather than posted in its entirety.

Post by **Denyer** » Tue Mar 02, 2004 3:15 am

Edited stuff into my above ^^^ post.

Yeah, anything complex HTML (or with images which have good reasons for being there) is impractical to repost. Often, it's helpful to post the text of something (fic, essay, etc) even if it's just one for example and a link to the rest... other times (toy guide, multi-page guide) it isn't.

The focus really boils down to the question: is what's posted intended to make a discussion on the board?

Arcee · Post by **Arcee** » Tue Mar 02, 2004 3:47 am

Originally posted by deej
but dude - you're not the Optimus Prime... maybe you need to go get your name changed by deed poll to something transformer-ish, then you'll be free to do as you will

He could change his name to "Cliff Jumper".

Cliffjumper · Post by **Cliffjumper** » Tue Mar 02, 2004 3:53 am

I'm a fan, not brain damaged.

Post by **Hound** » Tue Mar 02, 2004 7:30 am

Originally posted by Cliffjumper
You can post about site updates as long as you're not taking the piss.

I'd love if you posted when you've got your Japanese section up and running, that is if you haven't already...

Cliffjumper · Post by **Cliffjumper** » Tue Mar 02, 2004 7:39 am

It's down for a big overhaul... lots of it was a bit inaccurate due to some confusion regarding sources. It's all there, it just needs me to find the time to put it together.

I might do it this afternoon.

Post by **Hound** » Tue Mar 02, 2004 7:57 am

Good news is I can actually get the site to load now...