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This is about the fifth time I've seen Revenge of the Fallen (got my own copy for my birthday just recently), and I must say it gets better with repeated viewings.

I found it fun but exhausting when I saw it in the cinema, now I just love it to bits and there's always something quite cool that catches my attention at each viewing I didn't notice the time before, like Jetfire's reference to the space bridge, or seeing the electricity flickering in Jolt's claw-like hands when he's in the back of shot.

If I had two wishes it would be to have Barricade back in it, and the parents a little more like they were in the first film. Jazz I'm not bothered about not being there.

No, three wishes... some more Sideswipe and Jolt.

That's four wishes.

But its great fun. I'm so gloriously happy that almost 25 years since the release of TF:TM there's now two live-action Transformers flicks with plenty of references to the old stuff countered by plenty of fresh new ideas (the ball bearing things from Ravage's mouth).

Oh, and my favourite thing from this time around is Sam's mum hanging up on Soundwave thinking he's a heavy breathing pervert!

How completely perfect is that as a Transformers gag!

Wheeeeeee! Someone else out there besides me loves the movie!

Personally I've never understood the deal with why ROTF had been smashed to pieces by critics. Sure, the plot is wonky and the final battle is a tad overlong, and there are too much toilet jokes in it. But it's not that bad. I love the thing.

Blackjack wrote:Personally I've never understood the deal with why ROTF had been smashed to pieces by critics.

1. It's directed by Michael Bay
2. They all laid into the first one, and that did really well, so obviously the knives they tried the first time around weren't sharp enough.
3. It's a film that's basically hawking toys.
4. They're completely out of swing with 99% of cinema goers, and the success of the first one really brought that home. Film critics like to be listened to, and having the film do so well despite their bad reviews really out noses out of joint.

Regardless of whether it's good or not (I love it, even though bits of it don't work or go too far), ROTF was set for a panning from the minute it was green-lighted as far as professional critics go.

The first one did OK critically though didn't it? It wasn't their darling but the overall response was mostly "Surprisingly not shit".

If you were to sit down and analyse it in a completely objectively way it'd fall apart fairly easily but I love it. I don't think it's as tight as the first one (except in the Megan Fox's shorts department. Which is nice) and fully expect the next one to be smaller and more focused (mainly because it can't get any bigger) but still enjoy it overall.

And Deep Roy's in it!

Though I must admit I've now watched the forest fight so many times in isolation I have to keep reminding myself there's another hour either side.

inflatable dalek wrote:If you were to sit down and analyse it in a completely objectively way it'd fall apart fairly easily

Every single Transformers fiction is about the same.

Mostly the main problem is that the second movie tries too hard to impress, like the fact that Alice and Devastator could be removed from the movie and there wouldn't be much changes to the plot, and the fact that there's a toilet joke almost every fifteen minutes. And the fact that Sideswipe and Ironhide got such cool scenes in the beginning only to be reduced to background flowers later on.

And unlike the Optimus/Megatron battle royale in the first movie, Optimus vs Fallen is really short and not that impressive.

But then, the movie franchise is what started to turn me into a Transformers geek anyway, so I've got a soft spot for ROTF. I love it.

The main issue with the second one is it is aimed at a different audience

the first movie was for people who don't know transformers - it had a few nods to the fans, but overall it was a new generation and didn't focus too much on g1 etc

the second one is the opposite, it left newbies who are fans of the first movie, not really knowing what's going on - devastator was in it for the fans, (agreed with what was said above, he could have been removed with no change in the story) they reference space bridge, energon, the matrix - even some of the characters who have very minor roles such as ravage were in it for the fans

I love the second one, but i love it more having read the comics either side of it, and also knowing the characters...

Not really, the second movie is geared towards casual movie-goers as well.

Ravage and Devastator (and most of the robots introduced in the second movie) were cool enough by themselves that most moviegoers that only know Transformers as the two movies full stop think they are cool.

Besides, other than having the same alternate modes, being a gestalt and having the same name, ROTF Devastator has nothing in common with his G1 counterpart, no?

Another minor complaint is that the Fallen's timing sucks... if he's so damned powerful, there's no reason for coming so late into the battle. In the first movie Megatron comes into Mission City almost immediately (allowing time for travel) after being reactivated. There's nearly a 40 minutes-gap between Fallen broadcasting his news to the humans and his teleporting down to Egypt.

EDIT: For me the comics do nothing, actually. Despite me being the only person in the fandom that likes Reign of Starscream, there's nothing in there that ties into the second movie. Reign is pretty much its own story. Ditto for Alliance, which wraps itself up to gear for the movie. Defiance is the best out of the three, but the focus on the sarcophagus is diluted by the fact that the script was changed after Defiance was written. Tales of the Fallen is hit-and-miss, while Nefarious is rubbish.

Blackjack wrote:Personally I've never understood the deal with why ROTF had been smashed to pieces by critics.

Because they made too much money?

Blackjack wrote:And the fact that Sideswipe and Ironhide got such cool scenes in the beginning only to be reduced to background flowers later on.

Ironhide cool? He was there first and only got transformed and let everybody get away so that Sideswipe and Prime had to do the clean up. Then at the end he lead the scouts but couldn't really help Sam and the bike sisters. He should blame himself like he did in The Immobilizer.

Ironhide hangs off Demolishor's wheel while Prime's on his head, and there's a fair chance that Ironhide shooting out his tyres that actually disables the guy. Watch it again closely, Ironhide's hanging off the bottom wheel and leaps clear as Demolishor topples. He's also the one who advocates staying on Earth after Prime's death.

I liked it when I saw it the first time but after the second run I just can't imagine myself watching it for a third time.

There are just so many things that makes me want to go punch Michael Bay in the face .

Mixed bag for me. The good bits for me were better than the good bits in the first one. ("What if we leave...and you're wrong?!" > ANY line in the first movie.) But the cringe or yawn-worthy bits were even more cringe or yawn inducing. (Mojo and Ironhide > Mojo and Frankie.) But overall, I'd have to say I prefer ROTF.

These movies don't hold up to repeat viewings because of some complex plot which needs further interpretation. No, but robots beating the bejeesus out of each other is great! Optimus vs. Bonecrusher was nice, the Autobots vs. Brawl was cool, and I loved Blackout's opening pwnage. But I still feel ROTF was better here.

Auntie Slag wrote:Oh, and my favourite thing from this time around is Sam's mum hanging up on Soundwave thinking he's a heavy breathing pervert!

How completely perfect is that as a Transformers gag!

Yeah, that's a bit funnier than you'd think it would be. In a Mandarin singing Soundwave kinda way.

miked23 wrote:There are just so many things that makes me want to go punch Michael Bay in the face .

For me, thew bit where Optimus jumps from the plane captures the film. There was absolutely no need for it, but its so cool that when I'm watching the film I really don't care.
Its fun, its action packed, it has robots that transform and some of them are even from the cartoon. Sorted.

Blackjack wrote:Not really, the second movie is geared towards casual movie-goers as well.

Ravage and Devastator (and most of the robots introduced in the second movie) were cool enough by themselves that most moviegoers that only know Transformers as the two movies full stop think they are cool.

Besides, other than having the same alternate modes, being a gestalt and having the same name, ROTF Devastator has nothing in common with his G1 counterpart, no?

Another minor complaint is that the Fallen's timing sucks... if he's so damned powerful, there's no reason for coming so late into the battle. In the first movie Megatron comes into Mission City almost immediately (allowing time for travel) after being reactivated. There's nearly a 40 minutes-gap between Fallen broadcasting his news to the humans and his teleporting down to Egypt.

EDIT: For me the comics do nothing, actually. Despite me being the only person in the fandom that likes Reign of Starscream, there's nothing in there that ties into the second movie. Reign is pretty much its own story. Ditto for Alliance, which wraps itself up to gear for the movie. Defiance is the best out of the three, but the focus on the sarcophagus is diluted by the fact that the script was changed after Defiance was written. Tales of the Fallen is hit-and-miss, while Nefarious is rubbish.

i never said they were top quality comics :P just stating they added stuff, as you mentioned the sarcophagus, they add details which is useful knowledge when watching the movie

Whilst casual movie goers can enjoy the movie also - which i'm not disputing, it references a lot more g1 stuff and is more 'stuff put in for the fans' - whilst ravage is awesome, and so is devastator to the average movie goer, they are more nods to g1 fans as they are more referenced (i seem to recall the only mention of the name devastator is from megatron saying come here devastator, and ravage when soundwave shot him out - where as in the first movie it was "this is ratchet, he does this..." etc)

Cliffjumper wrote:Watch it again closely, Ironhide's hanging off the bottom wheel and leaps clear as Demolishor topples. He's also the one who advocates staying on Earth after Prime's death.

Man, IT IS IRONHIDE! All the time I though it was Prime. I have my nose so close to the TV and guess I need a bigger one. Take my previous word back, Ironhide, you are now back to the services.

When you pay attention, you see that Ironhide gets countless moments of random awesomeness, and just generally more TLC than the other "other autobots". It's fairly clear he's Bay's favourite.

You know what, I'm gonna watch the film again this evening.

Summerhayes wrote:When you pay attention, you see that Ironhide gets countless moments of random awesomeness, and just generally more TLC than the other "other autobots". It's fairly clear he's Bay's favourite.

You know what, I'm gonna watch the film again this evening.

Same with Ratchet, my personal fave. It's easy to focus on the central characters and say Ratchet or IH "didn't do nuffin!" They did, and it was good stuff...

TMM wrote:Whilst casual movie goers can enjoy the movie also - which i'm not disputing, it references a lot more g1 stuff and is more 'stuff put in for the fans'

But the average moviegoer doesn't really need to watch G1 to understand the movie, no? Yes, there are also references, but it isn't that 'in your face'.

i seem to recall the only mention of the name devastator is from megatron saying come here devastator, and ravage when soundwave shot him out - where as in the first movie it was "this is ratchet, he does this..." etc)

This, I think, is one of the problems with the second movie. Ravage didn't even get a name-drop, not even a G1-esque 'Ravage: Eject'. Thus, while the audience sees all those cool robots, the Decepticons all blur together. I know that most of the time I could not tell the four Constructicons apart (bar Rampage) during my first viewing, before I saw the concept arts in question.

While in the first movie we've got roll calls for both Autobot and Decepticon, we don't really something similar in the second one. The Autobots had the Shanghai thing, but most of the new Decepticons didn't get a name call. Sideways, Demolishor, Mixmaster, Scrapper, Long Haul, Ravage, Reedman, the Protoforms and Scorponok all never had their names spoken or even mentioned on-screen.

Blackjack wrote:the Decepticons all blur together.

I think that was kind of the idea. After all, this isn't the X-Men; its a war, and there are whole armies of Transformers up there in space. In LOTR, they didn't name every single orc, did they?

Actually, I take that back. Someone, somewhere, has named them all, haven't they? And writtena song, a poem and a backstory for them.

Movie gets better second time you watch it.

True. Odd, isn't it?


I mean, it is Transformers and that's why it is cool.

You should listen the commentary track and suddenly a lot of things fall into place. Between the crappy jokes of the three commentators they say why Transformers isn't our (with our I mean G1 adepts, who grew up with it) movie.

They have the humans as the audience, to experience how Transformers are. Spielberg who has sayings called it 'Sam's Movie'. I mean, that's a mistake.

But this movie isn't aimed at Transformer fans, it is made for a broad audience. That's why there are so many humans, that's why there are way too many kiddy jokes. It was Bay's own claim to have Skids/Mudflap infighting when Optimus just died. It was his 'kiddy' button as he called it. Too much drama would be bad for the kids, thus they need such kind of (to us) stupid things.

People who never cared about Transformers but do like a fun action movie actually really really like Transformers.

ROTF goes down a treat after a 24hr day of offroad driving, climbing hills and surveying endangered animals. Combine it with a smooth Speyside malt and yoy have a perfect chillout evening.

:-)