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Okay, I just downloaded the first episode of this... and it didn't annoy the living piss out of me. Amaro may be slightly annoying, being presumably a teenager, but he's not a moody emo twat... Chap On Ship (Shiar, something like that) managed to develop ever so slightly without spouting portentous twaddle every line. And the Mobile Suit, like, did stuff.

Is Mobile Suit Gundam the sequel (and upgrade) to Immobile Suit Gundam (where dramatic action was, to be blunt, limited)?

You're better off downloading the three compilation movies for Mobile Suit Gundam rather than the series. They do leave out most of the goofy stuff and make changes here and there that eventually fit better in the mood of the storyline. But then they leave out super robot stuff you might like, as in the gundam hammer, beam javelin, core fighter stuff and so on.

Amuro is like that pretty much until the end of the series. He does develop but don't hold your breath over it.

TBH, I'm finding the pacing to be pretty good. Not that fussed if Amuro doesn't really go anywhere, as he'd doing alright at the moment. I'm unashamedly approaching this like it's Voltron or something, and three episodes in I'm rather enjoying.

More power to you, then One advantage the tv series has over the Compilation movies is that you don't jump from one scene to a totally irrelevant one with just narration of what happened in between. Are you watching the american dub or the japanese audio with subtitles? Never watched the dub myself...

It's the dub (PM me if you want a link, btw, though it's in MKV format), which doesn't seem that bad... I don't mind a bit of goofy in anime, to be honest. Rewatching some of Gundam Wing recently, what really put me off was the almost merciless seriousness of it all, and while that little football thing might not be high comedy, at least the characters in this feel a bit human.

MSG is a good place to start off, you just have to remember that it was made in '79 and really looks it. No seriously, when the Mobile Suits with Bell-bottoms show up, you'll start to wonder. Not to mention the really bizzare Zeon naming process.

Gundam started the "Real Robot" craze and you can see the basis of things like Macross and the clones that came after, but there's also a ton that's REALLY close to Super Robot as well (The Black Tri-star Jet Stream Attack for one....).

If you're just looking for the story of Gundam, Knight's suggestion of the movies are better - you get to skip over things like the Beam Javilin, Gundam Hammer, Hyper hammer and the G-Fighter.... thingy....

On the other hand, there is some huge character development for Amuro who goes from being a complete tool, too much less of a tool (He only gets likeable in Char's Counter Attack, as he's still a tool in Zeta) in the series and watching it for that is worth it. Also note that Tomino (Writer/Director) was depressed while making this and things do get dark (despite the bright coloured mobile suits in hippy pants...). While not nearly as bad as he was while directing Zeta - he does get a little kill-happy towards the end.

What made you decide to pick up MSG?

And wing... ugh. Touted by Fan-boys as the godly series (mostly because it was the only series to do well in the west... because Gundam Fighter is CRAP) - but going back over it, really isn't that good. You're right, it's far too serious, esp for "pretty boys in robots"

It was just about the only thing with a robot I like in it that I could find to download in full... I usually have a scout around for the series whenever I get a new robot, MSG was about the only one yet tolerable (I've yet to get a T28 toy, but both the original Gigantor and the recent-ish Tetsujin 28 retro series are good fun). Vehicle Voltron I actually got one of the boxed sets (previously just had the first four eps on cheapo DVDs), and really am not enjoying. The characters are actually rather irritating, especially Jeff, while it could teach MOTU a few things about heavy-handed moralising. And they're always leaping through hoops to hold off from forming Voltron, when that would just solve most problems in 5 minutes.

I'm up to episode 16-ish now, and it's plodding away nicely. I like the fact it's a bit old fashioned and not quite so... grandstanding as some later series. The characters are coming along nicely (Bright's the bomb, for some reason... like the way he later got the gig as Bes in Ideon...) and I quite like the "Hey, we've got this new weapon for the Gundam because Clover are yelling at us" moment (like the completely pointless two-half combination).

The thing I really like, compared to Wing, is we aren't having the goodies/baddies crap shoved down our throats - Char seems like an alright cove on the whole, while we've yet to be told the Zeon are bad. Plus there are a couple of decent chaps down for them.

Kai (or however you spell it) is getting irritating, though. All the other characters seem to be going somewhere, but he's the same crap joke Rattrap bloke.

Not too keen on the American title sequence that's suddenly appeared on the episodes. Even the Japanese one with all the random leaping is better...

Probably going to slowly plod my way through the UC stuff as long as I can find it, mainly because I love my Zeta Gundam toy.

Kai... is an irritating character - but he is the basis for the stereotypical "coward" character that will show up in anime for the next 30 years (so... if you've ever watched anime, you know what's going to happen to Kai. It doesn't happen until ep20+... so a ways to go yet).

One of the things I like in Tomino Gundams (as well as a FEW select alt universe stuff) is that they don't spoon feed you "Zeon is bad you must hate them!!!!" With the exception of Gherin Zabi (Ummm oldest brother, smaller, slicked back purple hair) - the bad guys have redeeming qualities and Tomino actually goes througth the motions of trying to get you to like them (before killing them in some horrible way). I mean, I loved Ramba Ral and Char has his moments - esp with Lalah (yes... there is a character named Lalah Sune. She's Hindi... don't ask, I've never figured it out either).

And yes, Bright Noah is frickin awesome. He's the only original character to carry strait through with the series to Char's Counter Attack and he just keeps getting better (with the exception of what they do to him in Double Zeta - and even then, he's the only redeeming part of that show for 20 eps).

Watching Gundam: I don't know how to suggest going about it. I personally follow the timeline. But others perfer to do so in order of release - only because the jump in animation quality and styles jump around alot. But the OVA's fill in some parts of the story nicely:

MSG (you're watching. The movies add like 20 minutes of unseen animation. Neither here nor there for story adjustments)

8th MS Team - fun, but a little weird. Takes place in UC0079 just after the battle of Odessa. Ground combat with grunts and the Zeig Zeon sceen is just brilliant

0080 - More of a story piece. 6 30 min eps about the war as seen through the eyes of an 8 year old, who's caught in the middle. Not alot of giant robot fighting - but the battle between the Alex and the Kampfere is awesome

0083 - by far my favourite Gundam series. No Newtypes (no mention of them either - yay!) and a rookie pilot behind the new prototype gundam. You get to see how bloated and full of themselves the Earth Federation has gotten (2nd battle of Solomon... damn) - and why the Titans were formed.

Zeta Gundam - 2nd series produced - a WHOLE lot darker than MSG. EFF rules the colonies with an iron fist through the Titans. Very well done series - but: there's a lot of "Transforming" mobile suits. Not that they change to something recognizable - just from a Moblie Armour form to a Moblie suit form.

Double Zeta - ummmm. ugh.... I'm not finished it and it's taken me a year and a half to get through 35 eps so far. It's getting better (for the last 15 ep of the series). Honnestly - you can skip it and not really lose anything. Poor Bright. If you thought he had it rough with the kids from MSG....

Char's Counter Attack - Movie, finishes off the first UC century and brings a close (sort of) to Char and Amuro (neither of whom were in ZZ). Tomino is still depressed - lots of death. Great movie

F91 - was supposed to be a series, squished down to a movie. It's interesting and continues on with the enviromental theme that Tomino started in CCA. I liked it, it was 2hrs of good fun. And it's worth it for an upgraded Guntank.

Victory - hard to find online, though some people have it for DL. Some of the concepts got to me at first (Main hero is 10!!!! how the blue hell does he reach the foot pedals!!!). But the series grows on me. It's dark, mature(ish) and man, EVERYONE dies. And that wraps up the UC timeline

That should tide you over for a year. Most of them are written and directed by Tomino (with the exception of the OVA's - and ZZ) so they're not so heavy handed on the Good VS Evil thing and the "villians" have redeeming qualities. If you're curious about the Alt time lines, I can give suggestions, but I think I'm getting jaded on them....
Gundam 00 isn't bad though

Edit: Chokogun Zeta! I have the "Green Divers" version of it (same frame, different paint job). Wow... it looks pretty in Zeta...ish. The Wave Rider form is hideous The Double Zeta is great though, one of the best figures. If you can find it, check out the Gundam Fix Figuration Zeta - slightly streamlined and gorgeous.

Brave Maximus wrote: Victory - hard to find online, though some people have it for DL. Some of the concepts got to me at first (Main hero is 10!!!! how the blue hell does he reach the foot pedals!!!). But the series grows on me. It's dark, mature(ish) and man, EVERYONE dies. And that wraps up the UC timeline

I pretty much agree with everything you wrote [thought I like 0080 more than the other spin-offs] except this. Don't even bother with V Gundam. Finally managed to find one after years and hated it. Just about every busty woman has a thing for the 14 year old, and most of them walk around him in underwear. Oh and there's this one when he's prisoned that has a bath with him, naked. And that's when he escapes. No likeable characters anywhere in the saga and utterly pointless plot.

But do watch Gundam 00 when you get the chance. Awesome series.

I'm definitely going to give Zeta a try (and anything between Ms and that, natch), all providing I actually survive Mobile Suit first. There's not been a bad episode yet, though Amuro had better snap out of whinging soon or it might start getting bogged down (he's just nicked Gundam from White Base, so for me we're in make-or-break time). The only real shame character-wise (apart from Kai - I'm guessing something happens to make him care at some point) is the hangover from Super Robot shows, like the fat bloke and the little bloke. Plus side, that football thing's not in it as much as I feared.

Something does happen that kicks Amuro's ass into gear. Ramba Ral was the start of it. By the time they get to Jabraou he's not so much a tool (mind you, he goes from being a whiney brat to a cocky brat).

the Football thing = Haro.... Haro will be with you for every Tomino done Gundam (I don't know why, but he like the thing). Could be worse though - in SEED (Alt universe, one of the newer productions, there's like 30 of them running around).

Oh, how I love Gundam. It was a shame that they dropped the original series from Cartoon Network half-way thorough, right at Jabraou.

Is Gundam 00 really that good? I found the first three episodes and watched them, finding that the first one to be pure gold and then slowly the next two resembled Wing with the pretty boys in the suits. At least the politics were incredibly interesting. Maybe if I can find the rest of the series my opinion will change. Any help?

We're not allowed to post/suggest links for Bit Torrents of licenced Media (Btw, 00 has become licenced in the US - Bandai Japan dissolving Bandai USA and taking over all North Am distribution and production directly will make things go ALOT smoother). That being said, a quick Google search will get you what you want.

00 is worth a watch. It's a lot better than Wing, G Fighter (by a million times) and SEED/Destiny. It's on par with X and Turn A. Superfically it looks like Wing (pretty boys in suits) but is dramatically different. It's closer to Gundam X (never released in north am and one of the best series produced). The Gundam Pilots (Meisters) work as an organized group, function as a team and (some what) get along. Trust me, the first season is awesome - and second started off... odd....

Once you finish the show, read the book. I perfere the book over the tv show, and it is more dark.

Okay, I'm up to episode 21, and I has questions.

- Is White Base just completely full of Gundam shields? It seems like they get sliced dramatically in half at least once an episode.
- Why is there just random nudity? That's twice now that there's been a shower scene for no apparent reason... someone's just made the blonde thing with the weird arms cry by saying her tits are smaller than Frau Bow's. It's a bit weird. They don't go anywhere, it's like "We need to show everyday life on the White Base... how's about the girls showering?"...

Cliffjumper wrote:Okay, I'm up to episode 21, and I has questions.

- Is White Base just completely full of Gundam shields? It seems like they get sliced dramatically in half at least once an episode.
- Why is there just random nudity? That's twice now that there's been a shower scene for no apparent reason... someone's just made the blonde thing with the weird arms cry by saying her tits are smaller than Frau Bow's. It's a bit weird. They don't go anywhere, it's like "We need to show everyday life on the White Base... how's about the girls showering?"...

1: Yes - and more than a few "Revolutionary" Beam Rifles (for both the Gundam and the Guncannon). I mean, the Whitebase has some manufacturing capabilities on it, and the shield is nothing special (it's not even Lunar Titanium) - so it's not hard for them to pick up the pieces and re-forge the shield every week... It gives the engineers (IE: All the kids) on the ship something to do.

Just wait until Zeta and the Methuss. Mobile suit gets trashed (because the pilot is a tool) every battle and is fixed by the next one.

2: Pure fan service. It gets worse in some gundam series (Uso Evans bathing with the enemy in Victory sticks out as a particular WTF moment for Gundam. And in SEED, we see the captains boobs bounce every other scene). Honnestly, I do think it's ment to show, not only that there is everyday life on the White Base (along the same lines as the "Town" scenes in the original Macross). It's also ment to show how awkward Amuro is around women (I mean, he can slap them silly, but can't see their breasts at all!) - it's Tomino's way of still showing that no matter what happens Amuro is still a kid in some ways. Honnestly, I don't think Amuro ever grows out of this, as even in CCA - he's a bit awkward with women.

Blonde thing = Sayla Mass?

No... I know her, I think. Char's sister, yeh? She's actually a bit of a bitch in my book at the mo - just finished the one where Bright's ill and Mira (sp?) takes command... Mira makes an arse of it, and all Sayla does is yell at her instead of doing anything useful.

Blond thing... I think it's meant to be a kid, but it's more like an ugly transvestite dwarf.

The nudity in itself doesn't really bother me (hell, the last 10 minutes of Be Invoked is all-nude...), it's just pretty random.

Okay, so I got a bit distracted what with the whole Ideon obsession thing, and I haven't got round to watching the rest of Gundam.

But I did watch the films! They were pretty good, to be honest. A few things, though: -

- I'm guessing Sleggar's less of a cock in the series, yeh?
- Similarly, I'm guessing in the show Kai actually has character development rather than a massive personality change inside three seconds?
- Where exactly does that second Guncannon come from? If I'm following correctly, the Gundam/V Project stuff is far far too expensive to mass-produce (basically making it a Super Robot - maybe that's why I like it?), hence the rubbish GM getting made. But they just happen to have one extra Guncannon lying around, which they then bung on White Base?
- There is some serious, serious character armour at work there. Do any of the core characters from the first half of the series even get hurt in the big mobile suit-smashing, fleet decimating battle? They (and pretty much them alone) all seem to get out clinging on that little rocket thing.

One thing which seemed to carry over from the series that I never got is Amuro's dad (Tem, is it?). Unless I missed it, Amuro just doesn't react to him being blown through the side of, er, Side 7. He doesn't think he's dead, but he also doesn't really try and find out what's happened to him or, like, ask anyone anything. Then he spots him on that neutral colony, and he's acting like his father's just emigrated or something - he's not stunned to see him, or at least not as stunned as I'd be to see someone who'd gone missing after the colony they were on was totalled (my recall isn't pinpoint - Amuro didn't see his dad being blown out into space, did he?).

I'm being harshly negative, because I really did enjoy the films - lots of good characterisation, big robot fights and some awesome scenes (Char giving Amuro a tow, the totally mental dad scene, and so on). But the aforementioned bothered me (as did the booklet that came with the DVD set, which had a very snobbish attitude towards the series... I've already bought the damn thing, no need to be bastards...).

Oh, and Kika was the thing I was on about. All the kids were annoying, to be honest, especially as they went to a lot of effort to keep them onboard the ship... Made me very grateful the corresponding rugrats in Ideon weren't anywhere near that bad, even bloody Fard.

Holy crap, this is going to take a moment or two:

1: No, I'm pretty sure Sleggar is a cock through the whole series (It's been 5 years since I've seen MSG series - I just stick with the movies). He softens up a bit and has some moments with Sayla and a few mentor moments with Amuro. But still - I don't feel bad about him buying it.

2: Kai gets a lot of characterization in a very short period of time (But it's REALLY cut down in the movies). Sayla says some things that get to him, and a few battles really shake him. The movies don't do a good job of showing his development.

3: Ah, this was one I got caught up on to: There isn't just 1 Gundam, Guncannon and Gun tank. Project V produced a number of MS. There's quite a few Tanks and Cannons running around (I think at least 10 of each, and they get mass produced later on). More than that, there were 10 RX-78-1's made, 7 RX-78-2's (4 got shipped to Side 7 for testing) and a number of RX-78-3's floating around. There's even enough parts left over to build the RX-79[G]'s (20). The 2nd Guncannon was reassigned from Jabrow(SP sorry) because.... well, the Guntank sucked (even though the design prevailed through a number of series). The GM's were made, not so much because of Cost (though, the earth forces are cheap), but because the Feddies can throw massive numbers at the Zeon forces. 10 GM's for the cost of a gundam, and 10 rookie pilots - so much easier.

4: Yes - serious character armour - which is freakin bizzare for Tomino. White Base suffers 2 freakin deaths the whole series (Zeon's quite a bit more... but no one really important). Later on Tomino gets insane with killing off the good guys (Victory, they reload a team, just to kill them all off again).

5: One of the things I think is weird is Amuro's lack of attachment to his parents. He could care less about what happens to his dad (Even when he goes to the coloney - sees how far he's gone) - though I don't think he see's his dad get blown into space - he was more impressed with the Zaku going boom. He's happy to see his mom - but after that event, barely thinks about it. I do wonder if it's ment to be a counter point to Char (who's doing everything to avenge his father) - that he doesn't care. Or perhaps it's ment that Newtypes are emotionally stunted (Amuro and his parent, Char and his mother complex, Lalah... ugh, Camille is just messed etc....).

I hated the kids in most series. Tomino seems to have a thing with having the kids on the ships. I always found it very annoying - fortunatly it's a bit easier to ignore them later on.