[21-Nov-2005] Shortpacked! -- re: Botcon

Post by **Denyer** » Mon Nov 21, 2005 5:45 am

http://www.shortpacked.com/d/20051121.html

Nevermore · Post by **Nevermore** » Mon Nov 21, 2005 8:24 am

David is biased. He worked for Hallit.

RID Scourge · Post by **RID Scourge** » Mon Nov 21, 2005 3:19 pm

Perhaps, but it doesn't change the fact that the price was a little steep for an ultra, two deluxes, and a handful of basics.

Cliffjumper · Post by **Cliffjumper** » Mon Nov 21, 2005 3:43 pm

Originally posted by RID Scourge
Perhaps, but it doesn't change the fact that the price was a little steep for an ultra, two deluxes, and a handful of basics.

Or that all convention exclusive toys are expensive rip-offs aimed at gullible fanboys...

RID Scourge · Post by **RID Scourge** » Mon Nov 21, 2005 4:21 pm

True, but they really had 'em by the balls this time, seeing as you couldn't get one without buying all seven.

Post by **Denyer** » Mon Nov 21, 2005 5:03 pm

Originally posted by Nevermore
David is biased.

In what sense that's applicable to this cartoon, exactly?

Cliffjumper · Post by **Cliffjumper** » Mon Nov 21, 2005 5:16 pm

Well, we can't have people with opinions making web comics, they might be worth reading...

Nevermore · Post by **Nevermore** » Mon Nov 21, 2005 5:46 pm

Originally posted by Denyer
In what sense that's applicable to this cartoon, exactly?

I'm just saying that he's been dissing the new owners of the Fan Club and convention license from the day they were announced, while at the same time defending Hallit and his conventions.

Post by **Denyer** » Mon Nov 21, 2005 8:44 pm

Originally posted by Nevermore
I'm just saying that he's been dissing the new owners of the Fan Club and convention license from the day they were announced, while at the same time defending Hallit and his conventions.

Dissing (diminutive of "disrespecting") is a poor choice of word, as it implies criticism that's unsubstantiated. There's been justification for statements given with explanation (often in surprisingly constructive ways) throughout the fandom.

Then there are things that speak for themselves:

http://www.karmicsalt.com/bc05pics.html

Holding a convention for teens and twenty-somethings (a few of us nudging thirty now, and a bare handful of older fans) in September.

David could be screwing Glen on the side and it wouldn't make a criticism of convention stock being remaindered on the secondary market less valid.

RID Scourge · Post by **RID Scourge** » Mon Nov 21, 2005 9:37 pm

Wow, I'm really glad I didn't sign up for the fan club or the convention, now. I'm prolly only halfway through all the criticism. I love the one or two people, trying to justify the convention's attempts to screw the pooch.

Nevermore · Post by **Nevermore** » Mon Nov 21, 2005 10:42 pm

As far as I recall, the September date was due to the rather short planning time following the 3H bankruptcy/loss of license/Fun Publications being awarded the new license stuff. The next convention might be in July/August again.

Post by **Denyer** » Tue Nov 22, 2005 3:21 am

Originally posted by Nevermore
The next convention might be in July/August again.

Master Collector have repeatedly declared disinterest in doing so—they don't want to be doing the Joe convention in the same block of time. It makes you wonder why they were propositioned for the TF convention, when they weren't aiming for convention season. (Success with the Joe con, I assume, and the similar assumption that the company would provide an equally good advertisement for Hasbro by responding to the ages and needs of its customer demographic.)

It'll be interesting to see if they respond to pressure on this point, though. A combined summer Joe/TF convention looked to be unpopular with TF fans when first mooted, but having seen the alternative, many are reassessing that judgement. However, no telling what the predominantly older Joe fandom thinks about the prospect.

Even for fans not in or connected to education, September is the beginning of the run-up to Christmas for many firms (and spending priorities.)

The group still haven't released attendance figures, as far as I'm aware, and "the hurricane" (being hundreds of miles distant) has become a stock official answer for turn-out being affected. I for one would love to see pre-reg stats.

It would be darkly amusing if the only thing that saves the chance of a subsequent convention after next year is another natural disaster in an unrelated part of the country...

One particularly interesting point raised is the lack of dealer numbers, and the way the organisers are competing with them by offering "on the day only" exclusives that even those paying for the most expensive package don't get a chance to buy if they can't attend. (Smaller dealers were simply priced out.)

That "[just cut class]" comment from an official convention is a poor reflection on a manufacturer that sells itself on family image. Nor does feedback being pointedly solicited from pre-reg attendees almost exclusively bode well for future cons.

Cliffjumper · Post by **Cliffjumper** » Tue Nov 22, 2005 5:09 am

Don't, like, hardcore Joe fans [the convention sort, rather than the couple of DVDs and a Cobra Commander figure to stand by Starscream sort] have a spectacularly low opinion of Transformers?

Post by **Denyer** » Tue Nov 22, 2005 5:47 am

I don't know many military fetishists, so I couldn't say. [/example of the sort of thing likely to come from this fandom in response if not theirs]

They're older, at least. Some may not see themselves as geeks, whereas any member of this fandom denying the label is likely to be laughed out of most conversations. Some may not want a bunch of kids and families running around (though that's likely to be creepy 40+ bachelors rather than your average well-adjusted collector.)

Cliffjumper · Post by **Cliffjumper** » Tue Nov 22, 2005 1:37 pm

The Joe letters page after the G2 intro was insanely hostile is the main reason I ask... most of the letters [apart from the usual "I have X and Y and like Transformers" entry from JEFF 'Charisma' STEELE] were along the lines of "you've finally killed my love for GI Joe by involving tacky sci-fi robots!", and those were the ones they printed...

Halfshell · Post by **Halfshell** » Tue Nov 22, 2005 1:47 pm

Originally posted by Cliffjumper
The Joe letters page after the G2 intro was insanely hostile is the main reason I ask... most of the letters [apart from the usual "I have X and Y and like Transformers" entry from JEFF 'Charisma' STEELE] were along the lines of "you've finally killed my love for GI Joe by involving tacky sci-fi robots!", and those were the ones they printed...

Presumably from people who did the rational thing of ignoring the previous crossover?

Though presumably not from people who read Ancient Relics.

I wonder if anybody wrote complaining that their love of sci-fi robots had been killed by their cohabitation of a universe involving silly soldiers in stupid costumes with daft codenames.

Post by **Denyer** » Tue Nov 22, 2005 1:54 pm

Or crap scripting...

Post by **Clay** » Tue Nov 22, 2005 6:24 pm

Originally posted by Denyer
There's been justification for statements given with explanation (often in surprisingly constructive ways) throughout the fandom.

From that link...

Learn that Transformers fandom is entirely character-based, not army-based. Trying to copy the formula of offering a team of GI Joes against a large squad of Cobras plus vehicles to equip them with translates badly to a fandom where toy collectors generally don't build military units with their toys. 11 different Convention exclusives is way out of line with this fandom.

I chuckle at that. Actually, that logic works perfectly for transformers. All they needed to do was to make a seven-figure box set with every toy being some variation of Optimus Prime, and people would've been happy. Or at least complained less.

Post by **Denyer** » Tue Nov 22, 2005 11:18 pm

You reckon? There are a few people who are army-builders, it's just that they're in a very, very small minority from what I can see. Having multiple repaints of the same toy (without a decent story reason to back it up: eg, Insecticons, Sunstreaker/Sideswipe) doesn't have that wide an appeal.

I think more people would swear blue murder at the thought of yet more Prime toys if there were more than one in a set... even at the thought of one being a con exclusive if it were actually any good.

Sir Auros · Post by **Sir Auros** » Wed Nov 23, 2005 12:51 am

I don't think this convention was planned well at all, the exclusives are ridiculously overpriced now (though we knew they would be once we heard Master Collector was calling the shots), and the timing is godawful.

I'm not too optimistic about the convention moving to summer unless they were to move the Joe convention either earlier or later and put the Transformers convention at the other pole, but even then you're likely to have people miss one or the other due to school getting out late or starting early.

Hallit screwed things up in his last convention, but I think he still cared to some extent. Master Collector just picked this up on the side to make money. The Joe stuff is always going to be top priority.