TFARCHIVE FORUMS

In older lines, toys were generally designed to be one character and one character only. Redecos were usually meant to be the same character in different colours, or occasionally a completely new character. When a toy was redecoed as a homage to an older character it was simply a case of slapping a new coat of paint on -- rarely was the toy remolded to match the character it was purported to represent.

The Alternators were heavily remolded when the redecos were released, but the impression that Hasbro gave was that this was an ad-hoc thing -- the molds were designed to be character X, and they went back later and modified them to be character Y. But in Classics and Universe we first started to see toys designed from the start to represent two or more different characters. Classics Starscream was probably the first real example, because he was designed from the get-go with the Conehead variation in mind. That was a bit of a surprise at the time, at least for me, because Hasbro had no idea the demand for Classics would be there and a Thundercracker or Skywarp would have been a safer bet than Ramjet. Then Universe Sideswipe and Sunstreaker took things a step farther, creating a single mold that was meant to represent two characters who'd had completely different toys in G1 -- and absolutely nailed both of them, IMO.

But in the last year or so, Hasbro have embraced this wholeheartedly. Every toy these days seems to have a redeco planned from the get-go, and frequently the toys that share a mold had nothing in common before. In some cases (Drift/IDW Blurr, Perceptor/Reflector) it makes sense in hindsight. In some other cases (Straxus/Skullgrin, Lockdown/Axer, Wheeljack/Tracks), not so much. Sometimes the original characters' designs complement each other very well, and other times one or even both characters end up looking completely wrong because of the compromises the design team made trying to squeeze two toys into one mold.

So I got to wondering...is this new habit of Hasbro's actually a good thing? Are they doing a good job blending multiple characters into a single toy design? Or were they actually doing a better job when the toys were meant to be one character and one character only, but the redecos were generally uninspired?

A second question popped into my mind too. Are there any characters out there that didn't share a mold in G1, but could convincingly share the same toy? For me...

• The big ones that jump to mind for me right off the bat are Swoop and Cutthroat. They're basically the same toy already, with Cutthroat being a smaller-scale, blockier version of Swoop in both modes and having basically the same transformation. This might just be my combined love of Dinobots and Terrocons talking but I think this pairing would work perfectly with nothing more than a head swap.
• Considering that the whole lot of them were basically the same toy to start with I don't see any reason why Runamuck, Runabout, Chase, Freeway and Searchlight (or some combination thereof) couldn't be made using the same basic toy.
• This one's a bit more tenuous, but I've always thought that Topspin and Slugslinger shared a lot of the same design cues. Neither one is likely to be very high on the list of jets to get an update any time soon, mind you.
• My last idea might be reaching a bit too far, but I think Shockwave and Whirl could convincingly share a toy. I openly admit that I only got the idea because they share a head design, but they share some other design quirks as well. Both of them have slender legs, both of them have bulky chests and both of them have unconventional hands (Shockwave's gun arm and Whirl's claws). I openly admit, though, that this is more a case of "Well, they're going to do a Shockwave eventually. Who would look the least ridiculous using that mold?", and Shockwave as a helicopter has been done before in the Movie games. It makes more sense than the Alternator Jazz redeco anyway...

At some times it works to have two characters in one mold. For example, like you said, Sunstreaker/Sideswipe, and the Seeker/Conehead. Fans love it, Hasbro cuts production costs, everyone's happy. This also means that retools are planned further up the line, like the 2010 line's Lugnut and Thunderwing.

I do think this is a good thing... much better than the uninspired, endless decoes for the ROTF scouts toys. 'Hey, we have a new motorcycle mold with an insect head! Let's sort-of homage Waspinator, Inferno and make a completely random repaint!' or 'Dead End... Dead End... who'll we repaint it into? Oh, I know let's pick two names randomly out of a bag! Nightbeat and Slapdash! Excellent, even though the mold looks nothing like them!' It's a great blend, what they do with the Classics toys.

Wheeljack is a retool of Tracks? Boo!

As for 'didn't share a mold in G1 but would make a decent mold share now':
-Swoop and Cutthroat? Meh, do Cutthroat and Wildfly!
-Shrapnel and Chop Shop could share a mold by simply swapping out the heads and mandibles, and rearranging parts.
-And, uh... with a little tinkering BM Tankor and G1 Hardhead could share a mold. Just popped into my mind for some reason when I was reviewing BM, and can't get it out. They have similar alternate modes, similar placement of cannons... switch out the hands and head, bam you can get each other.
-A 'look me from the other side' thing like Sunstreaker/Sideswipe would work convincingly for Vortex and Blades, too.
-Razorclaw and Rampage could very easily share the same mold; their engineering is so similar. Ditto for Breakdown, Dead End and Wildrider.
-Nightbeat and Siren: obvious.
-With a little tinkering, most of the Micromasters with same alternate modes (Blazemaster and Tracer, Blackjack and Swindler, Roadhandler and Freewheeler) could share molds. Ditto for the Pretenders, but they are already like that.
-Scrapper and Scoop could share a mold easily.
-With new headsculpts the Legends Bumblebee mold couls prove great and cheap substitutes for the Throttlebots and Battlechargers.
-Groove and Override could share a mold if you squint closely enough.

Crankcase and Trailbreaker

Any of the Autobot double Targetmasters and the Constructicons

Dragstrip and Slapdash

Crosshairs and Kup

Blackjack wrote:Wheeljack is a retool of Tracks? Boo!

Actually Wheeljack turned out better than Tracks, I think. He looks exactly like himself except that he's got Tracks' more delicate arms. Whereas Tracks got all of Wheeljack's bulk in the torso and the legs, and just looks off somehow. If I didn't know which one came first I would've assumed that Wheeljack was the first toy and Tracks the redeco. In fact I suspect that's exactly the case, but their releases were swapped because they didn't want two white cars (Jazz and Wheeljack) on sale at the same time.

I'm just annoyed that we're probably never going to get Classics Slicer because of it. And no, that BotCon redeco of a bad Energon toy does not count.

Blackjack wrote:Swoop and Cutthroat? Meh, do Cutthroat and Wildfly!

I didn't think of that, but Wildfly's inner robot is just an even more simplified take on the same thing. Not reason it can't be all three, though. Or, hell, why not toss Yokuryu into the mix too, since you're looking at four unique colour schemes?

Hasbro tends to skew toward the outer shell designs for new Pretender toys and not their inner robots these days. I doubt they're very firmly set on that though, especially if it turns out that the inner robot is a perfect fit for a mold they're designing anyway.

But the ease of redecoing the toy makes me think that Swoop is the most-likely of the remaining Dinobots to put in an appearance. I have to admit that I'm baffled that they haven't touched any of the remaining four Dinobots in Universe or Generations, though. Hopefully the PCC Dinobots are a sign that Hasbro is at least thinking of them.

Blackjack wrote:Shrapnel and Chop Shop could share a mold by simply swapping out the heads and mandibles, and rearranging parts.

Great idea! You could do the same thing with the other Insecticons too. Barrage could very easily be made from Bombshell (no real need to even change the head, but a new horn would be nice). And Ransack would map onto a Kickback toy very nicely, too. Venom would be left out, which I suppose would further justify his paranoia.

Blackjack wrote:A 'look me from the other side' thing like Sunstreaker/Sideswipe would work convincingly for Vortex and Blades, too.

That could work, but it would take some doing. G1 Vortex and Blades basically transform backwards relative to each other. Vortex's cockpit forms his feet and his tail forms his arms, but Blades' feet are the back of his alt-mode and both his tail and his cockpit end up flipped behind him. They both have the same generic combiner limb chest and head though, so that's a good starting point. If you start with Vortex and give him proper arms, all you'd need to do are make sure that his legs are reversible and I think you'd have something.

Blackjack wrote:Razorclaw and Rampage could very easily share the same mold; their engineering is so similar.

The problem I see with this is that their colours are so similar: yellow, orange, red and black. Even though the layout is completely different I'm not sure Hasbro would be willing to do it.

Blackjack wrote:Ditto for Breakdown, Dead End and Wildrider.
-Nightbeat and Siren: obvious.

Actually all five of these are pretty much the same, no? Although I wouldn't be entirely surprised to get Sunstreaker redecoed as Dead End as an Alternators reference, either.

optimusskids wrote:Crankcase and Trailbreaker

Hmm...

Since Trailbreaker is inevitably going to be remolded as Hoist, depending on how the process works I think Crankcase would work really well using Trailbreaker's body and Hoist's head. Although I would be very pleasantly surprised to get another new Crankcase after the one we got at the end of the first Movie line.

optimusskids wrote:Any of the Autobot double Targetmasters and the Constructicons

I'm not sure I can see Landfill and Long Haul sharing a toy. Even though they have the same chest, Landfill's huge shoulders make them look very, very different. Wideload really isn't any better though, and they'd have to repaint the toy as someone.

Quickmix and Mixmaster are perfect though, since they transform almost identically to start with. Scoop and Scrapper would be a great fit too.

optimusskids wrote:Dragstrip and Slapdash

That's a tough one, because they're both basically yellow in car mode. But both of them have an engine dead-centre on their chest in robot mode as their most recognizable feature, so I can see the resemblance.

optimusskids wrote:Crosshairs and Kup

Don't see this one at all, to be honest.

[EDIT]A few other ideas that occur to me:

• Pincher's inner robot is basically a Micromaster Scorponok, so those two would be a natural fit.
• If they made a new-mold Ultra Magnus with a trailer, I could see getting a Motormaster out of it. They both basically need the trailer to come off anything like their original selves. Powermaster Optimus would be another possibility, but it's not like we don't have enough Optimus toys already...

Kup and Crosshairs is mostly the similarities in the chest it wouldn't work with the planned Kup but I could see Crosshairs as a monster truck version of a pick up

Fizzle and Joyride Sideswipe/Sunstreaker style as they basically have the same transformation but with the head pointing in different directions.

Any word yet on the Tomahawk redeco? I imagine you'd be rather hopeful for a new Spinister there, Warcry. They did reuse the name recently, afterall.

Also, with new weapons and head (and wheels, I suppose) WfC Soundwave could've the first successful Blaster redeco. I mean, I'd rather a proper update, but that hasn't happened with Soundwave yet, so there's little hope for Blaster.

tahukanuva wrote:Any word yet on the Tomahawk redeco? I imagine you'd be rather hopeful for a new Spinister there, Warcry. They did reuse the name recently, afterall.

Honestly...not really. I know beggars can't be choosers, but the mold is all wrong for Spinister as far as transformation and parts layout go and I'm not sure how it would look in his colours. Alas there's probably no way in hell that Hasbro would release a purple, pink and aqua helicopter in this day and age anyway. They might do his comic colour scheme, but **** that shit.

On the other hand Tomahawk himself is basically Tracer already, which is a nice dose of RPG goodness in and of itself (or it would be if I ever get one...hoping it'll be under the tree for Christmas). A Rotorstorm redeco would be crazy awesome though.

I'm also eager to see who Terradive will get turned into. My fingers are crossed for Space Case, Leozak or Hellbat, but I'm not exactly holding my breath for any of them.

tahukanuva wrote:Also, with new weapons and head (and wheels, I suppose) WfC Soundwave could've the first successful Blaster redeco. I mean, I'd rather a proper update, but that hasn't happened with Soundwave yet, so there's little hope for Blaster.

Actually...

It's expensive as hell and probably impossible to find, but IMO it's pretty cool. Not as neat as the flash drive Ravage (I so hope that Toshiba comes through on importing those like they said they would!) but a nice update to the character. I just wish they'd incorporated his chest into the monitor somehow.

What about Whirl and Rotorstorm? Switch the heads and hands, and voila- you've got the other! Shame that their colour schemes and personalities are so similar...

Warcry wrote:Actually Wheeljack turned out better than Tracks, I think. He looks exactly like himself except that he's got Tracks' more delicate arms. Whereas Tracks got all of Wheeljack's bulk in the torso and the legs, and just looks off somehow. If I didn't know which one came first I would've assumed that Wheeljack was the first toy and Tracks the redeco. In fact I suspect that's exactly the case, but their releases were swapped because they didn't want two white cars (Jazz and Wheeljack) on sale at the same time.

-squints at photographs- yes, Track's lower body does look kind of disproportionate. Wheeljack has the right balance, and Tracks just looks a bit over-bulky with that hood as most of his body.

I'm keeping my fingers crossed for Hasbro to redeco Jazz into Steppericochet.

I'm just annoyed that we're probably never going to get Classics Slicer because of it. And no, that BotCon redeco of a bad Energon toy does not count.

Don't say that. Walmart exclusives and everything. Walmart's given us Deluxe class toys Big Daddy and Road Hugger of all people... Slicer, an obvious redeco, won't be far off. Even though it would be kind of garish...

I didn't think of that, but Wildfly's inner robot is just an even more simplified take on the same thing. Not reason it can't be all three, though. Or, hell, why not toss Yokuryu into the mix too, since you're looking at four unique colour schemes?

Ah, yes. Always forgot about those Japanese Monstercons. Can't be helped, though... their names aren't as easy to remember as the Breastforce. Breastforce always sticks in my head because of Heinrad's crazy RPG portrayal of them.

I saw Wildfly on the MTMTE profile book. 'Hey, this is so similar to Cutthroat!' -looks at toy pictures- 'guess someone at Hasbro was being lazy!'

Hasbro tends to skew toward the outer shell designs for new Pretender toys and not their inner robots these days. I doubt they're very firmly set on that though, especially if it turns out that the inner robot is a perfect fit for a mold they're designing anyway.

Can't blame them. None of the Pretender inner shell robots, save maybe Bludgeon, Octopunch, Pincher, Doubleheader and Longtooth, look any great. The original twelve look horrid and so similar in engineering to each other.

Besides, why settle for a plain tank Bludgeon when you can have a heavy metal undead samurai with arcane powers

But the ease of redecoing the toy makes me think that Swoop is the most-likely of the remaining Dinobots to put in an appearance. I have to admit that I'm baffled that they haven't touched any of the remaining four Dinobots in Universe or Generations, though. Hopefully the PCC Dinobots are a sign that Hasbro is at least thinking of them.

Yup, poor Sludge and Snarl got the shaft when Animated made the Dinobots, no? It's just that there are so little redeco options for the Dinobots. Swoop could be redecoed into Terrorsaur or Lazorbeak or Hydra if Hasbro is feeling particularly lazy and want to cash on the BW nostalgia, but Snarl, Sludge and Slag? The only ones I can think of that share their dinosaur alternate modes would be the crappy BM redecoes.

Great idea! You could do the same thing with the other Insecticons too. Barrage could very easily be made from Bombshell (no real need to even change the head, but a new horn would be nice). And Ransack would map onto a Kickback toy very nicely, too. Venom would be left out, which I suppose would further justify his paranoia.

Bombshell and Barrage might be a little harder. Bombshell's beast mode horn ends up on top of his head, while Barrage's beast mode head ends up on his chest. Although if Hasbro ended up building it that way, I would army-build the Insecticons.

And throw in the Beast Wars guys for good measure! Ransack/Kickback could share a mold with BW Scourge, Cicadacon could share a mold with Venom, and Drill Bit could share a mold with Bombshell/Barrage with a little part swap.

Viva Insecticons!

That could work, but it would take some doing. G1 Vortex and Blades basically transform backwards relative to each other. Vortex's cockpit forms his feet and his tail forms his arms, but Blades' feet are the back of his alt-mode and both his tail and his cockpit end up flipped behind him. They both have the same generic combiner limb chest and head though, so that's a good starting point. If you start with Vortex and give him proper arms, all you'd need to do are make sure that his legs are reversible and I think you'd have something.

Kind of like Sunstreaker/Sideswipe, right? The two obviously won't end up perfectly, like Sunstreaker (whose legs are made up of the vehicle's back instead of its front). A little tinkering would easily give the two of them share a mold.

Or sod it, Vortex and Tracer!

The problem I see with this is that their colours are so similar: yellow, orange, red and black. Even though the layout is completely different I'm not sure Hasbro would be willing to do it.

Makes sense. Shame about it, then.

Actually all five of these are pretty much the same, no?

And, eh, throw in Road Hugger, Roadhandler and a couple of other Micromasters with the same engineering into the mix.

Scoop and Scrapper would be a great fit too.

They are identical, only with a different size and different chest design.

Pincher's inner robot is basically a Micromaster Scorponok, so those two would be a natural fit.

Meh, all transformers that change into scorpions, bar Double Punch, have the exact same set of transformation. Claws become hands, parts of the body fold down into legs, tail hangs high up above the head...

tahukanuva wrote:I mean, I'd rather a proper update, but that hasn't happened with Soundwave yet, so there's little hope for Blaster.

Which is odd, really. I mean, sure Soundwave's original toy was awesome, but he and Shockwave are the only high-profile Decepticon out there who didn't get a Classics toy made.

I mean, every single guy in the original Transformers cast have a Classics toy in one form or another except Gears, Soundwave, Laserbeak, Shockwave and Buzzsaw. Even Reflector and Windcharger got toys, damn it!

I demand a proper Soundwave toy! I DEMAND IT!

Blackjack wrote:I'm keeping my fingers crossed for Hasbro to redeco Jazz into Steppericochet.

That's probably inevitable, since Jazz's instructions didn't stealth-reveal a new head like Hasbro has been doing lately. It'd be nice to get Rad or Jackpot out of that mold though. Skram could fit too, of you kinda squint.

Blackjack wrote:Don't say that. Walmart exclusives and everything. Walmart's given us Deluxe class toys Big Daddy and Road Hugger of all people... Slicer, an obvious redeco, won't be far off. Even though it would be kind of garish...

That's fair enough, we've gotten some crazy shit as store exclusives in the last few years. Crankcase was probably my favourite of the lot, although getting to own a new Getaway toy made me very happy too even if he wasn't very good.

I constantly forget that that 'Jolt' toy was meant to be Road Hugger.

Blackjack wrote:Can't blame them. None of the Pretender inner shell robots, save maybe Bludgeon, Octopunch, Pincher, Doubleheader and Longtooth, look any great. The original twelve look horrid and so similar in engineering to each other.

We're not counting Starscream, Jazz, Grimlock and Bumblebee as Pretenders, I guess?

It also helps that the three Pretenders they've done basically never left their shells in the media they appeared in. I remember seeing Bludgeon twice (both very memorable scenes mind you), Thunderwing once and Skullgrin twice. The shells are basically who they are. I hope that if they continue to make more Pretenders, though, they do a better job robotizing their shells than Skullgrin does. He's pretty blatantly just Straxus with a ram's head, but then that's still better than how he was reinvisioned for Stormbringer.

Speaking of Stormbringer, I can't be the only one who started thinking of Energon Sharkticon as Finback after I saw his design, can I? The colour schemes, the head, the chest and shoulders...they're just too similar for it to be a coincidence.

The Autobot Pretenders aren't as lucky as the 'Cons though, since most of their shells were human. Aside from Catilla, Chainclaw and *shudder* Longtooth, I don't think there's much to work with there. Maybe Metalhawk too.

Blackjack wrote:Yup, poor Sludge and Snarl got the shaft when Animated made the Dinobots, no? It's just that there are so little redeco options for the Dinobots. Swoop could be redecoed into Terrorsaur or Lazorbeak or Hydra if Hasbro is feeling particularly lazy and want to cash on the BW nostalgia, but Snarl, Sludge and Slag? The only ones I can think of that share their dinosaur alternate modes would be the crappy BM redecoes.

Dinoforce had a triceratops, stegosaur and an apatosaur. But despite joking about Yokuryu before I really don't see Dinoforce getting any love, if for no other reason than they don't have English names.

If they did a Snarl he would probably get redecoed as Slugfest at some point.

Blackjack wrote:Or sod it, Vortex and Tracer!

Tomahawk is basically Tracer as it is, though.

Blackjack wrote:Makes sense. Shame about it, then.

On the plus side, it probably means that we'd get a Catilla, Chainclaw or Steeljaw out of it if they ever make new versions of either of the Predacon cats. And yes, I do realize that Chainclaw was allegedly a bear but that never really came across all that well...

Blackjack wrote:Meh, all transformers that change into scorpions, bar Double Punch, have the exact same set of transformation. Claws become hands, parts of the body fold down into legs, tail hangs high up above the head...

I'm actually not seeing how Double Punch is all that different.

Blackjack wrote:I demand a proper Soundwave toy! I DEMAND IT!

The problem is finding something that Soundwave can turn into, micro-cassette recorders not being all that recognizable these days.

Soundwave as a microwave oven maybe we've already had a toaster...

Random thought out of nowhere: I am still surprised that Hasbro hasn't tried redecoing ROTF Fallen and selling him as 'Vector Prime' or 'Alpha Prime' or whatever.

Warcry wrote:That's probably inevitable, since Jazz's instructions didn't stealth-reveal a new head like Hasbro has been doing lately. It'd be nice to get Rad or Jackpot out of that mold though. Skram could fit too, of you kinda squint.

Jackpot and Skram I agree, but isn't Rad supposed to be a motorcycle or something? I'll admit that he doesn't have much alternate mode kibble on him...

That's fair enough, we've gotten some crazy shit as store exclusives in the last few years. Crankcase was probably my favourite of the lot, although getting to own a new Getaway toy made me very happy too even if he wasn't very good.

The mold wasn't an exact fit. The new Wheeljack mold would've been a better candidate to redeco for Getaway, or Energon Hot Shot (if only Energon toys aren't so horrid). But I love my Getaway.

I constantly forget that that 'Jolt' toy was meant to be Road Hugger.

I constantly berate myself for not looking harder for him. I want my Road Hugger...

We're not counting Starscream, Jazz, Grimlock and Bumblebee as Pretenders, I guess?

Oh yeah. And I totally forgot Thunderwing, Vroom, Carnivac and the others too when writing that.

It also helps that the three Pretenders they've done basically never left their shells in the media they appeared in. I remember seeing Bludgeon twice (both very memorable scenes mind you), Thunderwing once and Skullgrin twice. The shells are basically who they are. I hope that if they continue to make more Pretenders, though, they do a better job robotizing their shells than Skullgrin does. He's pretty blatantly just Straxus with a ram's head, but then that's still better than how he was reinvisioned for Stormbringer.

True, true. The shells convey more personality than their inner robots anyway, and are much more distinctive. I always remember the Decepticon Pretenders as 'the lizard guy', 'the bug guy', 'the skull guy', 'the fish guy' etc, instead of 'the bike guy', 'the purple jet', 'the tank' or something like that.

Speaking of Stormbringer, I can't be the only one who started thinking of Energon Sharkticon as Finback after I saw his design, can I? The colour schemes, the head, the chest and shoulders...they're just too similar for it to be a coincidence.

Good lord, yes. Seems like Don designed Finback with Sharkticon in mind. Although Finback needs to have one of his arms replaced by a pointy thing to make it work.

The Autobot Pretenders aren't as lucky as the 'Cons though, since most of their shells were human. Aside from Catilla, Chainclaw and *shudder* Longtooth, I don't think there's much to work with there. Maybe Metalhawk too.

I can't ever, for the love of my life, tell the Autobot Pretenders apart other than the colour of their shell. Waverider's black, Sky High has an eagle, Groundbreaker has a lion, Landmine is orange, Cloudburst is red, Splashdown is the other one... they all look so stupid and similar.

Metalhawk? IMO he isn't really that distinctive compared to Landmine-and-company other than his bling.

Dinoforce had a triceratops, stegosaur and an apatosaur. But despite joking about Yokuryu before I really don't see Dinoforce getting any love, if for no other reason than they don't have English names.

See? Always forgot about them. Poor idiots with Japanese-only names...

If they did a Snarl he would probably get redecoed as Slugfest at some point.

Like what they did with Overkill and Grimlock, huh? Kind of depressing... I want my Cassettecons proper, damn it!

On the plus side, it probably means that we'd get a Catilla, Chainclaw or Steeljaw out of it if they ever make new versions of either of the Predacon cats. And yes, I do realize that Chainclaw was allegedly a bear but that never really came across all that well...

Before them, I suppose Rampage or Razorclaw would get themselves redecoed into Tigatron or Lio Convoy respectively first before we get Steeljaws and Catillas, though.

I'm actually not seeing how Double Punch is all that different.

His tails become legs instead of hanging above his head like Scorponok, Scorponok, Scorponok, Scorponok, Black Zarak, the other Double Punch and Pincher.

The problem is finding something that Soundwave can turn into, micro-cassette recorders not being all that recognizable these days.

iPods? No, won't work. A van? As much as I love Animated, I don't see Soundwave as a van. That Predator jet from Prime? I love Prime, too, but I don't see G1 Soundwave taking a jet alternate mode.

Sod it, make him an action master like ROTF Ravage or Scorponok. Let him be in his robot mode and the main gimmick his minions...

Blackjack wrote:Jackpot and Skram I agree, but isn't Rad supposed to be a motorcycle or something? I'll admit that he doesn't have much alternate mode kibble on him...

The wiki seems to think so but I'm not sure where they got that from. He's got the same 'bumper and headlights' chest as Jazz or Jackpot do, and beyond that he really doesn't look like he turns into anything. He could be a motorcycle, sure, but he could just as easily be a car, a pickup truck or some sort of fancy futuristic hovercraft. He doesn't have enough alt-mode details to judge. Jazz redeco would give you the right robot-mode looks at least, though.

Blackjack wrote:The mold wasn't an exact fit. The new Wheeljack mold would've been a better candidate to redeco for Getaway, or Energon Hot Shot (if only Energon toys aren't so horrid). But I love my Getaway.

Actually it's amazing just how good a job they did making the toy look like Getaway, considering it has no design elements in common with him and its' transformation is completely different. There's no hiding just how bad a toy Cybertron Hot Shot was though, regardless of pretty colours.

It's amazing in retrospect just how bad the Cybertron line actually was. I can't think of a single mold that I've owned that didn't look like an oversized knockoff of something that was supposed to be at least one size class smaller. The Hot Shot design had enough complexity for a Scout, at best.

Blackjack wrote:I constantly berate myself for not looking harder for him. I want my Road Hugger...

If you check out eBay, I think you'll be pleasantly surprised by the prices he's going for. Shipping included, he could probably be had for not much more than what you would have paid at retail.

Blackjack wrote:Metalhawk? IMO he isn't really that distinctive compared to Landmine-and-company other than his bling.

IMO Metalhawk's shell is a lot more robotic than any of the US Autobot Pretenders were. He also had a fairly unified colour scheme across both his shell and his inner robot. Out of all the Autobot Pretenders he'd probably be the easiest to give a Bludgeon-style "shell transforms into the inner robot's vehicle" update too. But honestly I don't think anyone cares about any of the Autobot Pretenders, or most of the Decepticon ones that haven't seen the light of day yet. Carnivac is probably the best candidate left for an update and even then he'd probably share a mold with Weirdwolf or someone.

Octopunch and Stranglehold are probably the only memorable ones left, and I can't even begin to figure out what they'd do with either of them. "Giant Octopus Monster" doesn't translate as well to a robotic form as "Skeletal Samurai", and I don't even want to think what a half-naked wrestler dude would look like as a robot. A shame, because it'd be nice to have a full Classics Mayhem Attack Squad one day.

Blackjack wrote:Like what they did with Overkill and Grimlock, huh? Kind of depressing... I want my Cassettecons proper, damn it!

I'm not saying it'd come off very well, but it's got to be the most likely choice if they made a Snarl.

Blackjack wrote:His tails become legs instead of hanging above his head like Scorponok, Scorponok, Scorponok, Scorponok, Black Zarak, the other Double Punch and Pincher.

Those are supposed to be tails? Wow, that's poorly engineered. His tails are bigger than his body.

Warcry wrote:The wiki seems to think so but I'm not sure where they got that from. He's got the same 'bumper and headlights' chest as Jazz or Jackpot do, and beyond that he really doesn't look like he turns into anything. He could be a motorcycle, sure, but he could just as easily be a car, a pickup truck or some sort of fancy futuristic hovercraft. He doesn't have enough alt-mode details to judge. Jazz redeco would give you the right robot-mode looks at least, though.

True. Some alien hovercraft seem to be the best candidate, kind of like, oh... Skram's alternate mode in IDW. I agree that Jazz's visored look suits him well, though.

Actually it's amazing just how good a job they did making the toy look like Getaway, considering it has no design elements in common with him and its' transformation is completely different. There's no hiding just how bad a toy Cybertron Hot Shot was though, regardless of pretty colours.

You don't like him? I actually liked Cybertron Hot Shot. Well, Getaway, at least. Sure, it's simplified but not as bad as some others, surely?

It's amazing in retrospect just how bad the Cybertron line actually was. I can't think of a single mold that I've owned that didn't look like an oversized knockoff of something that was supposed to be at least one size class smaller. The Hot Shot design had enough complexity for a Scout, at best.

True. I showed a Cybertron-era catalog to a eight-year-old cousin of mine. His response? "They look so cheap!" And kids don't lie.

Of the Cybertron-era toys I have, Crumplezone, Vector Prime and Heavy Load (Quickmix) are too simple for Voyager class toys. Cryotekscourge's design could be replicated in a Legends class toy, and it's a shame that he got sold as an Ultra class. Sky Shadow (Jetfire) is a general mess. Crankcase (Red Alert) is another messy toy only saved by his homage. Dirge (Voyager Starscream) and Springer (Evac) are bricks with large chunks of kibble.

The Scouts class toys fare a little better. Armorhide is simple but he works. Warpath (Overhaul), however, is a useless brick with less articulation than his Energon predecessors... And a spear that runs through his chest. Idiot. Storm Surge (Shortround) is good fun, but his toy is poorly designed as well.

There are gems in the line, though: Divebomb (Thundercracker), Roadbuster (Hot Shot mk II) and Dropshot (Scattorshot mk II) are great toys with great execution, though. Especially Dropshot, since the other two have slight articulation problems, and Divebomb has a big, unwieldy cannon as an arm. Ratbat (Sideways) and Blaster (Soundwave) are nice toys as well, ones that I enjoyed.

And I love Metroplex. He's just so big and funny, even though his alternate mode is shit.

If you check out eBay, I think you'll be pleasantly surprised by the prices he's going for. Shipping included, he could probably be had for not much more than what you would have paid at retail.

I've made a solemn promise to avoid eBay until I have better self control and money management.

Or else, it won't be just Jolt-hugger that I buy, but also the original Sports Car Patrol, and the Insecticons, and Repugnus and Sixshot and the Constructicons and the entire Beast Wars cast and the Vehicons and a Masterpiece Optimus Prime and a Classics Skywarp and Ramjet and Jetfire and an armada of Minicons...

Well, a lot of stuff.

Carnivac is probably the best candidate left for an update and even then he'd probably share a mold with Weirdwolf or someone.

I do hope they remember Carnivac exists, though. I think the obscure guys that popped up with a mass release—Thunderwing, Straxus, Skullgrin—are all featured quasi-prominently in the IDW comics, something Carnivac hasn't had any appearances in other than a one-panel cameo.

Although they did Road Hugger, so what can I say?

Octopunch and Stranglehold are probably the only memorable ones left, and I can't even begin to figure out what they'd do with either of them. "Giant Octopus Monster" doesn't translate as well to a robotic form as "Skeletal Samurai", and I don't even want to think what a half-naked wrestler dude would look like as a robot. A shame, because it'd be nice to have a full Classics Mayhem Attack Squad one day.

I don't think anyone in their right mind would design a Transformer that turns into a human nowadays, or else we would've seen toys for Sari and Alice by now.

If anything, Stranglehold would be homaged in his rhino mode with a bulky Lugnut-esque robot mode and his flail weapon. Share a mold with Headstrong, perhasps? Octo would be harder, methinks, because his shell is a crazy octopus diver and his inner alternate mode is a crab. Although if you don't mind kibble of both beast modes cropping up in the other it could be done. I'm thinking kind of like BW Rampage... but with tentacles.

As for the rest of the Mayhems... Spinister could be repainted from any helicopter, Needlenose could be redecoed from Terradive with a new head (and give his trident to Octopunch), and Snarler could share his mold with BW Razorbeast.

But they haven't made a full Wrecker set, so I'm not banking on the Mayhems anytime soon. Although with Perceptor and Kup on the works I hope a new Springer, Roadbuster, Whirl or -gulps- Impactor won't be far of...

Those are supposed to be tails? Wow, that's poorly engineered. His tails are bigger than his body.

Yup.

BW Quickstrike, so far, is the only scorpion that breaks that pattern, with his beast mode claws forming his feet, and his robot hands formed from his beast mode feet and that cobra tail.

Blackjack wrote:You don't like him? I actually liked Cybertron Hot Shot. Well, Getaway, at least. Sure, it's simplified but not as bad as some others, surely?

It's good for it's time I suppose, but compared to the Deluxe cars from the Classics/Movie lines or even RiD the Hot Shot mold comes up very short. He can't pose worth a damn, his arms don't have a realistic range of motion and his transformation is comically simple for a Deluxe-sized toy. It does have some good points -- I quite like the way the shoulders look, especially on Getaway -- but it's hard to deny that it's not a very good toy. I'm still slightly baffled that Hasbro managed to trick me into buying it a second time by splashing Getaway's colours on it, because I should have known better.

The other Cybertron toys and redecos I own are in the same boat -- too big and too simple. Vector Prime and Universe Springer (the Evac redeco) would have been passable Deluxes but are pretty shabby Voyagers, and that's without taking into account how the soft plastic that Hasbro used on Vector Prime pretty much ruined his alt-mode and that they didn't stop Takara from designing the figure so that its' robot mode appearance would be highly dependent on paint apps that Hasbro knew they wouldn't be able to afford. Movie/Classics/whatever Crankcase is a horribly-misshapen, clunky mess -- but that's actually completely appropriate for the character so I like it. In any other deco I know I'd be less forgiving, though. Override is just a horrible mess on all counts, and so is Brushguard.

Universe Ratbat is awesome and all the uses of the Sideways mold look equally cool, though. And there are a few other toys that I don't own but have a soft spot for (Landmine looks cool, I still kick myself for not buying Big Daddy, and Universe Dropshot was vaguely cool) but all in all I think it's actually a worse line than Energon was -- and that's saying something!

Blackjack wrote:I've made a solemn promise to avoid eBay until I have better self control and money management.

Same here. When I let myself go on eBay I have a bad habit of buying things that I don't really want. *cough*Motormaster*coughcough*

Blackjack wrote:I do hope they remember Carnivac exists, though. I think the obscure guys that popped up with a mass release—Thunderwing, Straxus, Skullgrin—are all featured quasi-prominently in the IDW comics, something Carnivac hasn't had any appearances in other than a one-panel cameo.

I wouldn't say Skullgrin was all that prominent. Did he even have lines in Stormbringer or Spotlight: Soundwave?

They missed a trick not doing a Skullgrin for Kiss Players, considering he was the only character whose only notable achievement was having a young woman polish his horn.

Toys designed with reuse in mind has been round from the start really, most of the Diaclone stuff seems to have gotten simultaneous use in different colours (including some that only got one Transformers use during the original run). What's surprising perhaps is it seems to have fallen by the wayside as it went along, after the opening run of year 2 toys it's a long time before repaints and remoulds became standard again.

inflatable dalek wrote:They missed a trick not doing a Skullgrin for Kiss Players, considering he was the only character whose only notable achievement was having a young woman polish his horn.

Octopunch is probably pouting in a corner because you didn't slip a tentacle joke in there.

The Diaclone stuff is an interesting case, because like you say you'd expect Hasbro to have learned from that. They didn't even use all the Diaclone remolds that were available to them though (Marlboro Wheeljack and what eventually became Crosscut come to mind right away...are there more?) so maybe they had less reason to do redecos then than they do now? If nothing else the shelf life of a specific toy was a lot longer than it is today, and the later years' toys were pretty strongly divided by gimmick. I don't think Headmaster or Targetmaster redecos would have fit with their plans after the line had been switched over to nothing but Micromasters and Pretenders. But did we see any redecos at all in the Hasbro line between the Diaclone stuff and the Micromasters?

G2 and RiD had a lot of redecos, but virtually all of it was of years-old molds or "power up" colours for existing characters. And for Beast Wars it always seemed to me that redecos like Tigatron or Black Arachnia were late-wave padding before new stuff was ready. And later lines usually stuck to strict repaints with no new tooling, with the rare exceptions always causing a bit of a splash. It's only very recently that they seemed to wake up to the fact that they could actually make the different uses of a mold very distinct with a bit of planning ahead.

The funny thing is that it's apparently significantly cheaper to do things this way than it is to go back and decide on a remold after the fact. I'm surprised it took them this long to catch on.

Warcry wrote:Hasbro tends to skew toward the outer shell designs for new Pretender toys and not their inner robots these days. I doubt they're very firmly set on that though, especially if it turns out that the inner robot is a perfect fit for a mold they're designing anyway.

I'd say with good reason since most of the inner Pretender robots are barely distinguishable from one another.

I'm surprised the Stunticons don't get rotated around much more than they do since cars are so ubiquitous for alternate modes. And even more so because three out of the five are basically the same design.

Clay wrote:I'd say with good reason since most of the inner Pretender robots are barely distinguishable from one another.

That's definitely true. Thunderwing and Bludgeon -- the two Pretenders who've had new molds created for them -- are probably the two with the most distinctive inner robots. If they couldn't get inner robot-based toys Landmine or Bugly don't have a prayer.

Warcry wrote:That's definitely true. Thunderwing and Bludgeon -- the two Pretenders who've had new molds created for them -- are probably the two with the most distinctive inner robots. If they couldn't get inner robot-based toys Landmine or Bugly don't have a prayer.

To be fair to Thunderwing, he was seen outside his shell what, once? For all intents and purposes his shell might as well be him.

As for Bludgeon, his original toy looks rather distinctive in vehicle mode, but robot mode all he's got going for him is his size and color. Looks rather...bland to me. I think they made the right choice with his new toy to homage the best parts of his original toy and shell, namely tank and undead samurai.

Warcry wrote:Actually all five of these are pretty much the same, no? Although I wouldn't be entirely surprised to get Sunstreaker redecoed as Dead End as an Alternators reference, either.

As luck would have it, the local Peddler's Mall still had a Sunstreaker hanging around today, so I have a new project.