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Old 2003-02-22, 05:39 AM   #1
Jim
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Exclamation 1&Only Iraq Thread

A few people of complained about the amount of Political / Iraq related threads lately. To solve the problem, I've decided to go with a single thread to consolidate everything oppose to having lots of threads.

A few ground rules!

1. Flame posts will be deleted.
2. Off-topic posts will be deleted.
3. Please do not bump left over Iraq threads as an alternative because they will be locked.

I'm hoping that this will help clean up General Discussions a bit, and allow people that wish to avoid such topics to do so easily.
 
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Old 2003-02-22, 05:48 AM   #2
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Jim you've taken all the fun away...

Anyway, I'll go ahead and make a comment.

Is it inevitable? Do you think the UN will actually be able to stop Bush? I'm beginning to lose hope...
 


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Old 2003-02-22, 05:49 AM   #3
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Exclamation

Quote:
Originally posted by Hound
Jim you've taken all the fun away...

Anyway, I'll go ahead and make a comment.

Is it inevitable? Do you think the UN will actually be able to stop Bush? I'm beginning to lose hope...
Bush loves to say that "We'll go in whether or not anyone else does". If that is true why has he waited? If he is telling the truth and if he's so sure he's right, Iraq shoulda been conquered by now.

Strange...
 
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Old 2003-02-22, 05:53 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally posted by Strafe
Bush loves to say that "We'll go in whether or not anyone else does". If that is true why has he waited? If he is telling the truth and if he's so sure he's right, Iraq shoulda been conquered by now.

Strange...
Probably the increasing protests developing in the US and around the world. He can't ignore the wishes of the people forever - especially come 2004.
 
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Old 2003-02-22, 05:55 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally posted by Strafe
Bush loves to say that "We'll go in whether or not anyone else does". If that is true why has he waited? If he is telling the truth and if he's so sure he's right, Iraq shoulda been conquered by now.

Strange...
Bush is only doing that to save face in the eyes of the international community. And his whole plan has backfired. He used those words go at it Alone" as scare tactics for the uncooperative ones. WHich is a lie! even if the don't join us we will still have Britain so we were never alone in the first place.
 
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Old 2003-02-22, 06:00 AM   #6
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Anyone else also feel emotionally drained because of all this? I swear we've been in quasi war for a half-year now and it's just tiring. In a way I just wish the thing would blow over so we can get back to our lives.

Edit - w00t, I'm a matrix keeper. Gimme a custom rank. I deserve one and don't wanna wait till 5000. I'm just that cool.
 
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Old 2003-02-22, 06:11 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally posted by Strafe
Anyone else also feel emotionally drained because of all this? I swear we've been in quasi war for a half-year now and it's just tiring. In a way I just wish the thing would blow over so we can get back to our lives.
Me too, except I think the only ending to it will be a violent one. I don't think Germany and France can stall until the next election, not to mention the possibility of Bush getting re-elected.
Quote:
Edit - w00t, I'm a matrix keeper. Gimme a custom rank. I deserve one and don't wanna wait till 5000. I'm just that cool.
Is that reason enough. There does seem to be quite a few that have a custom rank despite not having reached 5000 posts.
 


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Old 2003-02-23, 06:30 AM   #8
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WAKE UP! Transfans...Uncle Sam needs YOU.

I dont understand the world these days. Can you not see that Bush is doing something that MUST be done. I cannot stand how half of peace protestors are derelicts, unemployed and bored, or just -completely- naive about the future.

Saddam Hussein wouldnt spare a SINGLE american life if he were given the choice. We would all be gassed to death the way his very own people were. After all, he coined "Hitler was too gentle on his enemies"

Does such a madman deserve to dictate a country and run -ANY- weaponry programs let alone weapons of mass destruction? Good lord no.

I think you all need to face reality, and give GW Bush a chance to take out the trash.

Though i suppose you will only realise the truth in my words if a close family member of yours is killed by Terrorist Islam. tragic...:rolleyes:

As said in Fight or flee...."In the name of our forefathers, Take up arms and fight!"

-Alan (Astrotrain)
 

Last edited by Alan; 2003-02-23 at 06:35 AM.
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Old 2003-02-23, 07:19 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally posted by Alan
WAKE UP! Transfans...Uncle Sam needs YOU.

I dont understand the world these days. Can you not see that Bush is doing something that MUST be done. I cannot stand how half of peace protestors are derelicts, unemployed and bored, or just -completely- naive about the future.

Saddam Hussein wouldnt spare a SINGLE american life if he were given the choice. We would all be gassed to death the way his very own people were. After all, he coined "Hitler was too gentle on his enemies"

Does such a madman deserve to dictate a country and run -ANY- weaponry programs let alone weapons of mass destruction? Good lord no.

I think you all need to face reality, and give GW Bush a chance to take out the trash.

Though i suppose you will only realise the truth in my words if a close family member of yours is killed by Terrorist Islam. tragic...:rolleyes:

As said in Fight or flee...."In the name of our forefathers, Take up arms and fight!"

-Alan (Astrotrain)

Saddam is insane yeah but do you have any proof he has weapons? Do you see any need to go to war yet? Other then the yummy Oil?

I don't like these arguements I try to stay away from them but I love these one saying people who want peace are insane and that Dubya is right. If they are right I think Leatherneck at transfans said it best "If we are so sure about Iraq why aren't we already there"

It's true and the reason is is because Bush knows he has no real evidence.
 
 
Old 2003-02-23, 07:29 AM   #10
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Default Re: Why are you all such leftists?

Quote:
Originally posted by Alan
Though i suppose you will only realise the truth in my words if a close family member of yours is killed by Terrorist Islam. tragic...:rolleyes:
Yes, terrorist islam, they're all a bunch of towel-head terrorists aren't they? If you want to be taken seriously instead of have people judge you like that, I suggest you think before you type and actually present your reasons for your opinions instead of just telling us we're all wrong and then not backing it up at all...

As for the rest...

1-Madman with weapons of mass destruction running a country...ever hear of North Korea?

2-Half of all peace protestors are bored and unemployed...yeah, doesn't seem like a baseless generalization to me...

3-Fight or flee...funny, I thought there were other options like try and let the inspectors do their job and wait until you actually have evidence before pissing the rest of the world off. I wouldn't begrudge the war so much if there were actually pressing evidence indicating that we need to go to war RIGHT NOW to save our own country, because, let's face it, going with the argument that Hussein's a crazy guy who tortures and massacres his own people is just BS. Utter bs even. Who helped put him in power? Who looked the other way when he was doing all that stuff to his own people because he was a valuable ally at the time? Who put the Taliban in power in Afghanistan? Who funded South American warlords just to keep the countries from becoming communist? Warlords who treated their people just as poorly as Hussein is treating his. The answer is the USA, that's who. We're not some benevolent country hell-bent on making the world a better place, we're just as big a cesspool of corruption, greed, and hatred as any other place on this infested rock.
 
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Old 2003-02-23, 07:29 AM   #11
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Default Re: Why are you all such leftists?

Quote:
Originally posted by Alan
WAKE UP! Transfans...Uncle Sam needs YOU.

Ah nationalism how I loathe thee.

I dont understand the world these days.

Made quite apparent by your post.

Can you not see that Bush is doing something that MUST be done.

I apparently can not. The last I checked the only thing he is doing is pushing humanity to the brink of war.

I cannot stand how half of peace protestors are derelicts, unemployed and bored, or just -completely- naive about the future.

You like logical fallacies don't you? Tell me, do they satisfy your inner desires? Do they make you cream your pants? The way you use em it seems you love em, in that special way.

Saddam Hussein wouldnt spare a SINGLE american life if he were given the choice.

Good for him. We base our behavior on morality which makes us civilized. At least we hope to be.

Does such a madman deserve to dictate a country and run -ANY- weaponry programs let alone weapons of mass destruction? Good lord no.

Wonderful. I suppose this means that Bush should be invading the other dozen or so countries that fit this exact definition?

Oh wait we aren't?

I think you all need to face reality, and give GW Bush a chance to take out the trash.

As long as he takes himself out with it...

Though i suppose you will only realise the truth in my words if a close family member of yours is killed by Terrorist Islam. tragic...:rolleyes:

Ah so we can't make any true objections to the war unless we've lost family members is it? How blatantly idiotic.

Muppet.

As said in Fight or flee...."In the name of our forefathers, Take up arms and fight!"

Oh good. Now you are using Transformers episodes to justify war. Please excuse me while I lose more respect for you.

[/B]

 

Strafe. You're a dick. Ishin_ookami - Dec 1st 2003
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Old 2003-02-23, 07:32 AM   #12
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A) I don't see how being anti-war automatically qualifies someone as a leftist.

B) The hostility toward others' beliefs is unappreciated

C) I'm so sick and tired of these things popping up everytime I turn my head round here...

I'm asking everyone once, nicely, to confine it to one topic.
 
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Old 2003-02-23, 07:34 AM   #13
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Look, I hope that my post didn't come across as too aggressive, but it's really insulting the way you said, "Why are you all such leftist?" like it was a bad thing and then bashed our views without any sort of rational argument.
 
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Old 2003-02-23, 02:12 PM   #14
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The only thing that can save this world is a stray pretzle.

On a serious note, the war which will happen shouldnt go ahead (sorry for any confusion)

Morally, we-that is the Americans and us Brits- have no case to go to war with.

Tony Blair, our esteemed leader, has stated his "moral case" for going to war. Yet there is no moral case, as he admitted that innocent Iraqis will die, which is a hell of a lot more worse than Saddam killing his own

Why?

Because we are meant to be saving them from their 'leader', not killing them for him. If I wasnt working last Saturday, I'd have been at Hyde Park.
 

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Old 2003-02-23, 05:36 PM   #15
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Default Re: Why are you all such leftists?

Quote:
Originally posted by Alan
As said in Fight or flee...."In the name of our forefathers, Take up arms and fight!"
That quote is one of the most unfitting quotes ever.

First of all, your forefathers have absolutely nothing to do with it.

Second, it was to inspire the inhabitants of the invaded planet to fight against their suppressors. I think most people in Iraq are against this war, because they will be the ones who you will be fighting. America will be responsable for destroying hundreds of lives.

What if America is unable to capture Saddam (they failed miserably before)? Lots of dead American soldiers, dead civilians in Iraq, possible retaliations by terrorists resulting in dead civilians in the US, no freedom for the people of Iraq. Is it worth it?

I think not. It is more safe to just wait until Saddam dies of old age or disease. Saddam has had these so-called "Weapons of Mass destruction" for a while and haven't used them yet. Unless the US attacks, he'll have no reason to use them.
 
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Old 2003-02-23, 05:52 PM   #16
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Default Re: Re: Why are you all such leftists?

Quote:
Originally posted by Shrapnel Clone
I think not. It is more safe to just wait until Saddam dies of old age or disease. Saddam has had these so-called "Weapons of Mass destruction" for a while and haven't used them yet. Unless the US attacks, he'll have no reason to use them.
If he actually has them, which seems to be pretty subjective at the moment. I'm surprised Powell didn't show off pictures of these mobile weapons of mass destruction labs that are running around in Iraq with other satelite images that could be anything.

----

While I don't believe Iraq is being targetted beyond getting the oil, the US ignores North Korea who not only has big nasty stuff, but the means to get it to where it wants.

Saddam or Kim Long? Yea, it is a no-brainer about who is the dangerous threat to world.

The inspection sites have yet to yield a smoking gun, while the US yet to provide one, nor any real evidence, so it obvious that the motive is strictly based on oil, nothing more.
 
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Old 2003-02-23, 06:22 PM   #17
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It should be relatively easy to see that Saddam poses no actual threat to the US or it's citizens. That much is obvious. He'd never make a direct attack on us, he'd get wiped out. The US wouldn't have any opposition for attacking then. Saddam isn't about to make that mistake, he may be a madman but he isn't stupid.

Now, the only actual threat he poses is to the people of Iraq. That would seem to justify invading Iraq in the name of freeing the citizens from their oppressors, except that by invading Iraq we would instead be killing the citizens we are seeking to aid. Not to mention that the general opinion of the US in Iraq is very poor, to the point that the citizens would be as likely to want a US soldier dead as the actual Iraqi soldiers.

There are solutions to this problem that don't include direct force upon Iraq. The greatest tactical minds our government employs are indeed capable of devising a strategy to eliminate Saddam Hussien without resorting to war.

So why would the government forsake these other options? Well, logic would suggest that their goal isn't to eliminate the threat of Saddam Hussein then. If that isn't their goal then what is? Well, what would be the ultimate outcome of invading Iraq? It would put the US in control of Iraq. That is what happens in an invasion, right? Well, what would our government have to gain by having control of Iraq? What does Iraq have that they would want? Well, that's simple, oil. If it's all about the oil then why not take control of every country with a surplus of oil? That's easy, no other countries present us with the justification of invasion.

In short, Bush's motivation is currupt. Based on greed and not a desire to protect or do good. You are kidding yourself to think otherwise. You are indeed playing into their game of control.

Take this in mind with the knowledge that I didn't form this conclusion based on anything that I read or saw on TV. It is rare that my television set is ever turned on or even tuned in to a news broadcast. It is even more rare that I pick up a newspaper. So you're probably asking yourself, how do you know enough to come to that conclusion if you don't pay attention to the news media? Well, it would be difficult and indeed take much effort to close myself off from any information regarding the situation with Iraq and I don't put forth any effort for that, so I do have some knowledge of the situation. What I know is this, Bush and his administration want to attack Iraq, the UN opposes this action. The Iraqi people and much of the Islamic citizens of that area hold the US in low regard (Most hate our culture deeply). Iraq, as with many other middle eastern countries, has large amounts of oil. None of that information is false or in dispute at all to the best of my knowledge. So why is it I can form a conclusion that so many are incapable of believing? Is it denial, some belief that you have to have that our goverment is doing the right thing and it's only for our protection? Is it that many liberals oppose what Bush is doing and because you are conservative you must automatically disagree? Is it because you enjoy the notion of American military superiority? Is it all these reasons?
 
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Old 2003-02-24, 07:35 AM   #18
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[Instigating Flame Comment Removed]

Second of all, have -ANY- of you been to any of the peace protest rallies? I have been to four where i reside, and from what i personally have seen, my statement of calling them derelicts is justified. have you ever so much as spoken to any of these twits? i'd say 3/4 of you have NOT. Most of them are social outcasts, bored or....Unemployed. I question SEVEN adults about the issue on Iraq, not a single one could so much as even recite the LOCATION of the country, yet they shout "Make love Not war"

Oh freedom of speech for the uneducated and mis-informed, how i loathe thee.

Thirdly, the UN has become a joke and irrelivent in todays day & age. Just count the terrorist funding nations that basically run it. Syria for instance. The weapons inspectors play a token part in the issue, complicating matters for the USA. To place our faith, potentially our lives in the hands of a handful of men frollicking around iraq would be insane.

I do not care if saddam Hussein is working on obtaining Nuclear weapons, Chemical weapons, biological weapons, cannons, rifles, pistols or Slingshots loaded with rocks. This madman must be stopped from going too far which we all know he will, given half the chance.

Strafe: "Good for him. We base our behavior on morality which makes us civilized. At least we hope to be." What does that mean? have you asked yourself that? So WE are civilized, what does that mean/matter? The fact remains that -IF- saddam obtained weapons that could harm American lives you can bet your last penny we'd be the first targets, civilized or not. Give me a break.

War is an awful option, unfortunately it is our final option. Nobody wishes to see civilians harmed/killed as is the case with any war. But we must remember that a Cancer must be cought early, in order to be treated. Any of you that can overlook the evil in Saddam and his regime of murderers, are either hopelessly naive or irretrievably stupid. America needs to ACT! not re-act. Ask yourself what would have happened had the free-world put an end to Nazism in its early days? would 26 million or so lives be lost? Short answer: No.

Uncle Sam needs you, and Me, American.

-Alan (Astrotrain)

PS: Do not flame me. Pleas keep in mind that i do not care. :rolleyes:
 

Last edited by Jim; 2003-02-24 at 06:44 PM.
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Old 2003-02-24, 09:17 AM   #19
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so the general view of the archive is anti-war i see

my opinion differs of course...i will avoid a raving diatribe and skip right to the point.

this war isn't for peace...peace is a long shot, and you people need to drop that "love one another" utopian view

you cannot reason with dictators...you cannot cuddle with them and reason with them and hope they will go away

you cannot make monetary reparations for lives lost...in any war

people die everyday makes you no different...shows how much life is truly worth in the eye of the bullet.

i don't believe war is just, i dont like war, but a peaceful resolution is hard to achieve in the light of all the event in this world

so attempt to refute my argument with your morals...there is none...

oh and btw...there's no case? there is

a chance that a regime headed by a dicatator that gasses his own people will be silenced...

and don't try to counter-argue with a peaceful iraq...we've been reasononing with saddam for the past decade and the kurds are still living in fear
 



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Last edited by Fat Dragon; 2003-02-24 at 09:19 AM.
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Old 2003-02-24, 09:30 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally posted by Fat Dragon
a chance that a regime headed by a dicatator that gasses his own people will be silenced...
Wow, a walking cliché factory, how interesting...

As for the dicatator that should be "silenced," you are aware that when the gassing was going on, the US looked the other way because he was an ally at the time, right? I covered that once before, but with you stupid people running about pulling turds out of your asses and presenting them as arguments, it's kinda hard to get through sometimes...
 
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