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Old 2003-04-12, 06:28 PM   #1
jaycen
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Exclamation You can't beat the Real Transformers!

What's with the digimon transformers? I was so excited to hear that there was a new transformers cartoon. I immediately thought transformers remade like beastwars. Soundwave, bumblebee, Bruticus & Menasor but no.
Itz tragic, obviously made for japan and ported to other countries with a lousy voiceover. You spend more time with a bunch of retarded kids who, unlike spike & sparkplug, constantly take away from the story. Optimus prime looks weird and the color shading is awful. Megatron sounds like a mama's boy where's Soundwave?
I know the original series is just short of 20 years old but it seems to be superior in every way: Animation, Character development, storyline & well the list goes on.
Holla if you hear me!!!!
 

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Old 2003-04-12, 08:36 PM   #2
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I tend to disagree. At this point, I say that the original cartoon is tied with Armada for the worst TF series, but Armada's stories seem to be getting better, so it may surpass the original cartoon, seeing as it has a whole second season (at least) to do it in.

The best TF continuity by far is the Marvel Comic (including the UK stuff. I'm really glad that they've decided to reprint those, and distribute them in the US).

Next, I would say Beast Wars (I haven't seen much of this (probably about 12 episodes out of the 50-something episodes, which is only about a quarter of them), but I'd say that the episodes that I've seen were very good, with even the worst ones being entertaining). I can't comment on Beast Machines, as I've really only seen one episode.

RID is my third favorite. The story behind it was also very good, and it introduced us to characters that I would put on my top ten list of characters in all cannons. Three that spring to mind are Ultra Magnus, Scourge, and Skybite.

Ultra Magnus is a total badass. He had the balls to shoot at Prime, which is very rare in an autobot, and he wouldn't let Stereotype Prime order him around. I would say that I like him even better than the UK comic version UM.

Scourge is one of the most ruthless decepticons I've ever seen, rivaling G1 Shockwave as my favorite decepticon (it's really a toss-up between the two). He plotted to usurp Mega/Galvatron, and he didn't make his move until he thought that he had the upper hand (who would have known that Ft Max wouldn't listen to him?). Also, he was able to show his strength early on, when he took comtrol of the decepticons. He definitely surpassed the original character to bear that name.

As for Skybite, I just think he's the most loveable character to come out of TFs.
 
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Old 2003-04-12, 09:55 PM   #3
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Not to be a killjoy, but is this in the right forum?
 
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Old 2003-04-12, 10:11 PM   #4
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It's definitely in the wrong forum. It belongs in G1, going by his post. With my post, you really can't tell, but it edges toward RID.
 
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Old 2003-04-12, 10:51 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally posted by jaycen
I immediately thought transformers remade like beastwars. Soundwave, bumblebee, Bruticus & Menasor but no.
Instead you got Perceptor, Red Alert, Swindle, Dead End, and all three original Seekers (plus two of three Coneheads, one of whom actually is a conehead again!) as well as the usual renamees. Yeah, they look different, but what did you expect? A full-fledged G1 reissue in a market that showed too weak a backing for it?

Quote:
Originally posted by jaycen
Megatron sounds like a mama's boy where's Soundwave?
Megatron is voiced by David Kaye, I believe, the same actor who voiced Megatron from Beast Wars (which you apparently liked).

I take it you're a big Soundwave fan? In any case, Hasbro would have no reason to make a new Soundwave character (with whom you'd almost definitely be disappointed) other than to satisfy the fans, which wasn't their primary goal with Armada. There's no more reason to have Soundwave than, say, Venom.

Quote:
Originally posted by jaycen
I know the original series is just short of 20 years old but it seems to be superior in every way: Animation, Character development, storyline & well the list goes on.
I take it you haven't seen every original cartoon episode...

Despite all this, I agree with your thesis. You don't like the Armada cartoon. Neither do I. Why defend the series, then? The concept is cool, the toys are kinda neat, and the comic is relatively good. (Incidentally, what did you think of Dreamwave's G1 mini? Was that cool because it had "real" Transformers in it?) If nothing else, look at it as a step in the right direction: Hasbro has correctly placed faith in the popularity of all vechicular Transformers. Surely that can't be anything bad.

Quote:
Originally posted by Wolfang
Not to be a killjoy, but is this in the right forum?
Nope. I'll shove it over to G1, since it seems to be based more on that at heart, though it bashes Armada in doing so...

**Topic Moved**
 

Flec's selling a lot of RID, Armada, and Energon, and a few G1 toys. 'S all I'm sayin'.

The TFArchive RPG - "the most popular part of the site[!]" - Skywarp. Darn tootin'.
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Old 2003-04-13, 11:38 AM   #6
jaycen
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Exclamation Hold it, stop, wait a minute Pause!

Ok, TFg1 was a 1984+ cartoon and throughout series 1, for instance, there are some flaws in continuity, such as sky fire's emblem changing form red to purple in almost every focus change. But the essence is that the cartoon is innovative and presents alot of interesting ideas aswell as continually introducing new a mostly neat characters.
While people have fond memories of the first star wars trilogy not many people think much of the new star wars even though they are more technologically able. Why? well the first star wars was ground breaking, pretty much inventing special effects as they went. The new one is being overshadowed by technically superior effects being invented by the makers of Lord of the Rings triology. Many other reasons but that is probably the most obvious.
Back to the topic on debate! I didn't actually say i liked beast wars! I said i liked the animation used. I did watch some but wasn't really sold on it but didn't hate it either. Just thought it was interesting.
Armada seems to be made specifically for the japanese market and dubbed over, like: Pokemon, u-gi-oh, dragon ball z etc, for the western world. Itz diappointing as the animation is pretty sad no real improvement on the original series and no better than all the other ports. Optimus Prime is now a tow truck or fire engine? who cares anyway, megatron and galvatron are the same character but are two separate characters in the transformermon. My argument is that G1 is STILL considered the best because it is where it began and STILL has more interesting characters and maybe there are some new characters that are cool but look at the originals like: Rumble(cool attitude), Bruticus(the real badass), Omega supreme, Shockwave etc. If the comics of G1 are as good as was stated(haven't read them myself) why not release them in cartoon form?
 

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Old 2003-04-13, 05:17 PM   #7
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Actually, I like the original star wars better because it was written better. The new stuff was written for his kids, so it was garbage.

As far as the comic goes, they couldn't release it as a cartoon because it was too violent, and it wasn't always clear that the autobots were going to win.

Quote:
Originally posted by jaycen
My argument is that G1 is STILL considered the best because it is where it began
That's not a good argument at all.

Quote:
and STILL has more interesting characters and maybe there are some new characters that are cool but look at the originals like: Rumble(cool attitude), Bruticus(the real badass), Omega supreme, Shockwave etc. If the comics of G1 are as good as was stated(haven't read them myself) why not release them in cartoon form?
This is a slightly better argument, but I can find a few characters that I like better than the original character that they are named after. The first one that pops into my head is RID Scourge.

Anyway, I really don't like the stories of the original series. At the end of the episode, it's almost as if nothing happened at all. What I like about the series that come after it is that when something happens, it affects the course of the rest of the series, which is something that didn't happen in the original cartoon. Overall, the stories were better as well, even if it is kiddified.
 
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Old 2003-04-13, 06:16 PM   #8
jaycen
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Yeah i would agree on some of the original characters being somewhat lame. Ironhide was a freakin van!
But you have to love the complexity of soundwave & his tapes. The character design of megatron is far more better in g1 compared to pokemon looking megatron in armada(kabuto maybe) and voice...no need.
The storylines of g1 is atypical of 80's cartoons, you'd at least expect the makers of armada and rid to use state of the art animation and storytelling. They may have the storytelling right in style but they sure as hell copped out when it came to animation. The worst part is the retarded children in the new series. Its a shame that they haven't utilized characters like the stunticons, computron and bruticus to name some. There are fewer characters in general, good or bad.
My biggest complaint will always be that they didn't do a starship troopers style cartoon.
 

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Old 2003-04-13, 07:59 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally posted by jaycen
Yeah i would agree on some of the original characters being somewhat lame. Ironhide was a freakin van!
Oooh, a van. That's soooo lame, isn't it? And an alt-mode really is the final word for a character, isn't it? I'll chuck you some lame alt modes. Handguns. Cameras. Microscopes. Alt modes don't equals **** when it comes to whether something's good or not. Bumblebee turned into a VW, but a proper writer turned him into a great character. Sideswipe turned into a Countach, and yet in the kids' show he's a whiny, generic fool.


Quote:
But you have to love the complexity of soundwave & his tapes. The character design of megatron is far more better in g1 compared to pokemon looking megatron in armada(kabuto maybe) and voice...no need.
Complexity? One turns into a tape player, the others into tapes? It's hardly Dune, is it? As for the character design of G1 Megatron - he turned into a bloody handgun. Fantastic. He also had a terminally ugly toy, a bucket for a head and a stupidly proportioned gun [I have a theory regarding the relationship of original Megatron fans and certain sexual shortcomings...].

Quote:
The storylines of g1 is atypical of 80's cartoons, you'd at least expect the makers of armada and rid to use state of the art animation and storytelling. They may have the storytelling right in style but they sure as hell copped out when it came to animation.
How is G1's storytelling atypical? It has the same premise - 'white' good guys vs. 'black' bad guys [that's binary, not racial, for any dumbasses out there...]. The good guys have a morally perfect leader. The bad guys have a greedy, powerful and stupid leader, surrounded by incompetent henchmen. The bad guy always goes for ridiculously overcomplicated plots when he has the basic resources to simply take his opponents on. Plot devices and reset buttons abound. Now, how is G1 different with regard to storytelling than any other badly made, sloppily written 80s cartoon? Stae of the art storytelling? There's no such thing. Storytelling can be done as well by a cartoon animated by a Korean sweat house, or the most up-to-date CGI.

Quote:
The worst part is the retarded children in the new series.
Okay, that's an offensive term you're just used. Cut it the **** out.

Quote:
Its a shame that they haven't utilized characters like the stunticons, computron and bruticus to name some. There are fewer characters in general, good or bad.
My biggest complaint will always be that they didn't do a starship troopers style cartoon.
Ruination? Actually, he had less of an irritating voice than Bruticus, and the RiD combaticons had a semi-plausible origin. And the fewer characters with origins along the lines of being built by a twatty Dinosaur, the better...

Starship Troopers style? You mean CGI violence over and over? Yeh, that's soo intelligent. Real gripping stuff that...
 
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Old 2003-04-15, 07:54 PM   #10
Cyberstrike nTo
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Bruticus was in the RiD toyline as 3-headed hellhound Predacon
If you don't want to call the toy version of "Ruination" character "Ruination" don't call him 'Ruination" call him Bruticus or Barney if you want.


The simple truth is Hasbro/Takara isn't aiming for the 20-35 years old market, they want kids so that is who RiD and Armada are aimed for we are the bounus market.
As for them being made for a Japanesse audicence
Newsflash for you Takara is a Japanesse company!
 



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Old 2003-04-16, 09:45 AM   #11
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Cliffjumper


[I have a theory regarding the relationship of original Megatron fans and certain sexual shortcomings...].


It's probably similar to my theory about people who have 13,000 posts on a Transformers website.
 

Until they put Optimus Prime on a 5 and 1/4 floppy, Make Mine Marvel!!
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Old 2003-04-16, 12:34 PM   #12
Cliffjumper
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Quote:
Originally posted by coppertop
[BIt's probably similar to my theory about people who have 13,000 posts on a Transformers website. [/B]
No... presumably your theory revolves around someone who loves Transformers, knows an awful lot about it and tends to help people out with a lot of information when they could just sit there and think "ha ha, I know what Operation Combination was, and you don't ha ha". It also helps to have opinions, theories and original thoughts in general. A tip for you there next time someone has no clue who you are...

Winning a couple of thousand posts in the Trivia forum doesn't hurt either.
 
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Old 2003-04-16, 08:45 PM   #13
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by coppertop
Quote:
Originally posted by Cliffjumper


[I have a theory regarding the relationship of original Megatron fans and certain sexual shortcomings...].


It's probably similar to my theory about people who have 13,000 posts on a Transformers website.
Pretty good little zinger there. But, even though Cliff did a pretty good job of sticking up for himself, I will say this: there is something to be said for the fact that die-hard fans really do seem have more general knowledge about a mythos than a casual fan. Opinions are just opinions, true. But knowing your stuff can really help you get your point across.
 
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