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Old 2004-01-16, 07:39 PM   #1
Civ
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Default For all the G1 haters.

I've noticed that a lot of people on this board tend to bash G1 to no end. Particularly the cartoon and the toys. My question is this, how did you guys get into Transformers then if you hated the G1 cartoons and toys? Beast Wars? RiD? Armada? The G1 comics?

EDIT: Clarification added.
 


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Last edited by Civ; 2004-01-18 at 04:08 PM.
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Old 2004-01-16, 07:54 PM   #2
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The toys and comics. I suspect most of us from the UK are the same, particularly those who got into TFs at the end of the 80's or start of the 90's. We also had the Ladybird books and audio tapes, which I remember getting when I was very young.

Never underestimate the power of word-of-mouth—kids usually want the cool toys other kids have, and TFs had more play value than other toys, being two-in-one. They were expensive, but usually well-made, felt quite hefty and kept us amused for ages.

I moved over from MOTU to Thundercats and Thundercats to TFs, more or less. MOTU I collected bits of everything, Thundercats was mostly the comics. Getting the TF comic was an obvious next stage, and I tracked down TF:TM on VHS after that, plus I seem to recall having a couple of episode tapes before getting either comics or the Movie.

I've always had a particular liking of the UK annuals.

Going back from the kind of writing which can tell a full story in five black-and-white backup strip pages to the cartoon was a disappointment for most episodes. I hated the dumbed-down characterisation given to the Dinobots, although I generally prefer Season 3 episodes because they were darker and more gritty. Grimlock's New Brain and Dark Awakening (available as a two-ep cassette), Fight Or Flee, Starscream's Ghost, etc, are all favourites of mine. Masquerade, Cosmic Rust, Key To Vector Sigma and War Dawn also. I particularly appreciate the voice-acting work, which has enhanced my enjoyment of the written media.

I've never had a problem with there being multiple origins for TFs—my problem is that the Quintessons were laughably bad villains. I'm incredibly glad I didn't see FFOD until fairly recently, because the plot-device used at the end is one of the worst pieces of non-fairytale writing I've ever seen.

I'd like to think I can justify my general dislike of the writing on the G1 show... I don't tend to regard TFs with nostalgia; I've never actually stopped reading fic and comics over the years, so it isn't some marvellous (some would say duplicitous) memory unearthed ten years later. The sections of the comics I hold in high regard I can dissect with the skills I've picked up over a BA degree, English PGCE and what passes in my case for common sense. I can see the flaws in most things; I'm particularly interested in context, and how and why things were written as they were, rather than simply the content.
 
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Old 2004-01-16, 08:00 PM   #3
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There are a lot of G1-haters on this board. Personally, for what it is G1 is very good.

Mostof the G1-haters are looking to find Shakespear and are unsatisfied with anything less.

Sorry if it isn't as good as Beast Wars but typically things get better with age. No sense going back in time and bahing G1 because it wasn't as good as something that hadn't been created yet.:rolleyes:
 
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Old 2004-01-16, 08:04 PM   #4
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I got into it from the toys mainly... My friend had tons of toys, and of course, I had to have some too. We'd bring toys over each other's houses and have huge battles. Later on, I got into the cartoon.

I never really got into the comics, though that's an inherrent flaw in the medium itself rather than the comics being bad. In fact, from reading plot summaries, I can see that the comics are in fact better than the cartoon plot-wise, but I just hate reading comics. I can't get into them. Despite the many flaws of the cartoon (as have been pointed out by the mature people on this board, not the 'Oh well, you obviously inferior cartoon likers can't possibly grasp the superiority of the comic over the cartoon' mentality that sadly seems to be here to stay), I can still appreciate it for what it is - a bit of fun. It's the whole concept of Transformers that drew me in (and continues to do so), rather than the quality or lack thereof of individual storylines.

As an aside, I've had hand-eye-coordination problems from birth, and my parents believe that Transformers toys have had a decidedly benificial influence over helping me to deal with that. So I suppose I owe something to Transformers at some level or another.

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Old 2004-01-16, 08:33 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally posted by Denyer
The toys and comics.
Ditto. Minus the toys.

Only comics were available for me, because they were published in Poland. Only later I rented TF:TM, and much later saw few eps of cartoon on Sky One.
 
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Old 2004-01-16, 08:58 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally posted by DrSpengler
Mostof the G1-haters are looking to find Shakespear and are unsatisfied with anything less.
You have no idea how much I hate most Shakespeare... although I have slightly more appreciation for the guy having taught some.

Yes, I expect a basic standard of writing from anything I bother to read/watch. I have no unironic interests in Spot or Barney, for instance. However, the comics (IMO) produced more material which has stood the test of time than the early series. Quite a bit was good literature (and good entertainment) in its own right, not merely fobbing kids off with a product placement.

Fiction doesn't get better with age. People's minds cloud over and rationalise things more...

From what I've watched, I like both BW and BM. RiD was kiddified, and I haven't had time or resources to keep up with Armada. Apparently it gets better toward the end. Whereas comics are portable, though (and I've never suffered from travel sickness when reading), I have little appetite for sitting passively glued to a screen for 22 minutes to be fed predictable, leaden plots. I don't watch much TV at all, and those TF eps I like are the ones which offered something with a bit of depth and surprise value.
 
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Old 2004-01-16, 10:48 PM   #7
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Its perfectly possible to love something despite its flaws. Transformers had many different contributors and the good could shore up the bad. I loved to hate the cartoons even back then because of the glaring inconsistencies, awful voices and lousy script. What more than carried them was the fact that I got to see my heroes animated, in technicolor on the TV, making those funky transforming noises that we all imitated in school (except the teachers), and the lasers fire and battles.

And so what, if you didn't like the cartoons then there was the comics, and if you didn't like them then there was the toys. I finally knocked my TF obsession on the head once it became to gaudy and garish, and they didn't transform into cool lifelike cars and planes anymore. I didn't fancy the idea of a pink robot (Misfire), or one that wears a pathetic organic suit to look barely human (Pretenders).

But I would still like to watch the cartoons, even now. Its nice sometimes on that odd occasion to have the luxury of sitting back and watching something from my childhood. And if it seems like for some of us TF cartoons really get our goats and all we do is whine about them... well that's because this is a TF discussion forum. There was plenty of other stuff around at the time that I found equally as annoying, if not more so, but I didn't get as annoyed about them because I didn't feel as passionate about them as I did for Transformers.

There's a helluva lot of **** to do with Transformers, but that still doesn't change the fact that to me, Transformers just plain rock. Even WITH the stupid voices etc. Its what you make of it.

And now what I love the most its what's BEEN made of it since.

Like this web site for instance. And people's amazing work. I love the fact that other kids from the 80's who loved TF's just as much are now commissioned to do the artwork (Don Figueroa, Guido Guidi) for official work. That there is a great book available (Eugenesis by James Roberts), and a seemingly million strong army of dedicated fanfic writers who handle well known TF characters with amazing dexterity.

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Old 2004-01-16, 11:04 PM   #8
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*applauds*
 
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Old 2004-01-17, 11:55 AM   #9
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nope not me i'm all about G1 i don't care much for g2 or beast wars or anything after that.. to me Transformers is G1... and thats it.. thats just my 2 cents
 

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Old 2004-01-17, 12:30 PM   #10
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I have to say, I didn't exactly like the plots of the G1 cartoons, but I have to say I liked the personalities of some of the characters there, although I have to say the personalities of Grimlock and Starscream of the Comics version were a hell of a lot better. I kinda wish my TF comic collection was intact and hadn't been destroyed by mice. *whimper*

I got really good at Transforming my transformers, I wouldn't even bother with the manual, which wasn't a problem as most of my collection consisted of combiner teams, Throttlebots, Sparkbots, Micromasters and the like, not to mention Wheeljack, Jazz (three Jazz's, all various stages of brokeness) Mirage, Ratchet, Blurr, Galvatron, Megatron (Hey kiddies, make your own Timewars episode Heh, I could continue, but I won't, because I'm old and I can't remember them all :\

I like G1, it reminds me of the good old days when my friends from next door on either side would pop in with their Transformers and we'd have own own adventures of stopping the dastardly Jazz clone army from taking over the world.

So to me, G1 is good memories I guess, doesn't mean I won't have a dig at G1 cartoon is someone brought up a point I too thought WTF?

PS. Any UK Comic collectors from that bygone age who remember the Grimlock letters page filled with kids asking about the cartoon inconsistencies? =P
 

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Old 2004-01-17, 05:16 PM   #11
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Hey, where's Snake?

He should be all over this by now.
 
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Old 2004-01-17, 06:55 PM   #12
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G1 haters? I didn't know there was such a thing...

Anyway, like Denyer, I don't approach Transformers from a nostalgic standpoint at all, I just find the comics to have really stood the test of time. I attribute my A's in English Lang and Lit in GCSE and A Levels more to my love of Furman's works, than any Shakespeare, Hardy, or Dickens you can name.

Maybe sometimes I feel nostalgic when I hear Soundwave's voice, see a real life Optimus Prime toy, or just sit down and watch the movie. But at the end of the day, what we loved as kids can often blind us to looking at these things objectively (the amount of mates I have that swear The Goonies is the best film ever made is getting ridiculous!) , and if you take the G1 cartoon on its merits, it really doesn't have the intelligence and flair of something like Beast Wars, which has a much wider spectrum of appeal.
 
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Old 2004-01-17, 10:11 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally posted by spiderfrommars
G1 haters? I didn't know there was such a thing...
You know, it's those people who voice their disgust with the cartoon.
 
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Old 2004-01-17, 11:48 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally posted by Ozz
You know, it's those people who voice their disgust with the cartoon.
Except someone would have to be an idiot to pick that as a specific term of reference, because 'G1' is about so much more than 98 slots of a 22 minute show.
 
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Old 2004-01-18, 02:28 AM   #15
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I couldn't agree more.
 
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Old 2004-01-18, 10:34 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally posted by Denyer
Except someone would have to be an idiot to pick that as a specific term of reference, because 'G1' is about so much more than 98 slots of a 22 minute show.
I know that, and you know that too, but I noticed around the boards that there are many fans, for whom 'G1'=4 Seasons of the cartoon. Those people don't realise the existence of the Marvel comic, the Japanese shows, often they are forgetting about the most important aspect - the toys.

Funny thing is that this thread popped out after Nevermore's responce in the other thread. So, some people said lately they hate the cartoon, there was 'Megatron The Gun is a ****ty toy' thread, and suddenly people hate 'G1'. If there was comic or Japanese 'hating' lately, I must have missed it.

Anyway, look at the initial post of this thread. 'How did you get into Transformers if you hated 'G1'? The comics?' Uh? Unless it's about Dreamwave ones, that's something wrong here.
 

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Old 2004-01-18, 04:07 PM   #17
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Then let me clarify.
 


Thanks, Zeeks! Great job!
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Old 2004-01-18, 04:49 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally posted by Civ
Then let me clarify.
...?
 


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Old 2004-01-18, 05:08 PM   #19
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Look at the first post again. I've changed it to saying the G1 cartoon and toys since some people pointed out that it's too broad. For me, G1 was all about the cartoon and toys and not the comics. When I said "comics?" I was thinking about them as separate from what I was familiar with; therefore, my post was unclear in that sense. Since it was unclear, I decided to clarify it by editting my first post.
 


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Old 2004-01-18, 09:58 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally posted by Ozz
I know that, and you know that too, but I noticed around the boards that there are many fans, for whom 'G1'=4 Seasons of the cartoon. Those people don't realise the existence of
Or, as tends to be the unfortunate case, they have no desire to acknowledge that their nostalgia trip is a very small fraction of the TF stuff produced during or prior to 1995.

Quote:
Originally posted by Ozz
Anyway, look at the initial post of this thread. 'How did you get into Transformers if you hated 'G1'? The comics?' Uh? Unless it's about Dreamwave ones, that's something wrong here.
Yes, it's precisely the combination of ignorance and ideological interpolation which leads to most of the fights in this forum.
 
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