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Old 2004-10-20, 06:15 PM   #41
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Originally posted by DrSpengler
Ahhhh THANK YOU!

I read the Wonder Woman reboot, it's just that the timeline doesn't work. Superman had to go fight in the Crisis (as he remembers it) as an adult, as did Wonder Woman. But Wonder Woman got turned back into clay and her Earth 2 counterpart got to live in peace on Paradise Island. So Wonder Woman didn't make it back. So how does that work in regards to the Gods and Mortals reboot by Perez? She has her origin, she fights in the Crisis, gets turned back to clay? Or does that not actually happen?


I believe WondeWomen offically can't iunto action as crisis started.

Since WW 100 Bryne made claims Hypollata was the golden age WW

Remember Crisis reconned everythime. Zero hour re-retconned everything so nobody defently remembered bar 1 person.


That's the only part that's been bugging me. Superman got rebooted but he didn't need to "die" in the battle for it to happen.


He disn't. However the super powerful Superman was reconned into the modern one. His parents are alive (:rolleyes however its reasonably acceptable to say the changes don't affect the Superman of earth 1's events in Crisis too much.

I think the Crisis idea was that many universes died for a new one. The survivors edventually 'morphed' into the modern versions and forgot what originally happened. Zero hour wiped out all the 'elements' that didn't fit into the new continunity years later. Or it tried to.

To behonest as random creative teams ahve come on board since the 90's theres been a horrible trend to ignoring or changing history as any Tom, Dick or Harry see fit meaning DC and recently Marvel has no real continunity anyway.


Also, know of any particular comics involving the Psycho-Pirate? I really liked that guy.
Animal Man. The only true greatness from Grant Moorison. HE also still remembers Crisis as it originally happened, unless someone retconned that since.

Also the Liner men know Crisis happened as it originally did.
 


Last edited by Jetfire; 2004-10-20 at 06:19 PM.
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Old 2004-10-20, 06:58 PM   #42
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Okay, so the Wonder Woman reboot didn't take place until after Crisis (in the post-Crisis timeline). So Wonder Woman never fought alongside Barry Allen or anything.

Alright...I...I think I understand things now.

Is there a timeline anywhere on the net of the post-Crisis DC universe?

Like when do the events of Crisis (all the heroes banding together to fight the Anti-Monitor, the Flash dying) take place?
 
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Old 2004-10-20, 09:39 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally posted by DrSpengler
Okay, so the Wonder Woman reboot didn't take place until after Crisis (in the post-Crisis timeline). So Wonder Woman never fought alongside Barry Allen or anything.
Actually she did. She arrived just in time for crisis. Not that she did much anyway. Now I think about it she actually did nothing of note so it doesn't matter.

Quote:

Alright...I...I think I understand things now.

Is there a timeline anywhere on the net of the post-Crisis DC universe?

Like when do the events of Crisis (all the heroes banding together to fight the Anti-Monitor, the Flash dying) take place?
I used to have loads, howv=ever DC close down fan sites pretty quickly.

However some informative ones still up :

http://www.io.com/~woodward/chroma/crisis.html

http://www.geocities.com/TheTropics/1185/atlas1.html
 


Last edited by Jetfire; 2004-10-20 at 09:42 PM.
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Old 2004-10-20, 11:23 PM   #44
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In Zero Hour #0 the back cover folds out into a revised timeline of the DC universe. It covers all of the most important events in the DC history.
 


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Old 2004-10-21, 12:24 AM   #45
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Ah thanks, that helps some.

But now I hear about this Zero Hour thing. What all did that do? Did it just clean up the continuity errors left after Crisis or did it completely reboot the universe Crisis-esque one more time?
 
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Old 2004-10-21, 01:20 AM   #46
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It was meant to clarify any continuity errors leftover in the aftermath of Crisis, such as Hawkman.

It actually clarified nothing really and was a porrly written waste of time. It's only saving grace is that it resulted in a couple good stories in the crossover comics and starting a really good comic "Starman" by James Robinson. You shoould pick that up it's in TPB...
 


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Old 2004-10-21, 02:40 AM   #47
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Originally posted by Hound
It was meant to clarify any continuity errors leftover in the aftermath of Crisis, such as Hawkman.

It actually clarified nothing really and was a porrly written waste of time. It's only saving grace is that it resulted in a couple good stories in the crossover comics and starting a really good comic "Starman" by James Robinson. You shoould pick that up it's in TPB...
Starman...like that movie from the 80's? I'll have to give it a shot. It'll be added to my TPB list. I suppose I can just skip Zero Hour, doesn't sound all that necessary. I don't even read Hawkman.

Which reminds me to ask, is Carter Hall an alien from Thanagar or a reincarnation of some ancient Egyptian guy?
 
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Old 2004-10-21, 03:33 AM   #48
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Currently he's both!

It's complicated, Carter Hall is a reincarnated Egyption prince, Katar Hol was an alien from Thanagar, in Zero Hour the two were merged into one Hawkman with Katar being the dominant being.

I think they were somehow split and Katar Hol is a disembodied spirit in an alternate dimension and Carter Hall retains some of Katar's memories and physical attributes. Something like that, it's confusing...

The original Starman was Ted Knight and was a millionaire scientist/superhero in the golden age. The Starman comic by James Robinson is the story of Ted Knight's son (Jack, I think) who follows in his father's footsteps and becomes defender of Opal City. It's good stuff...
 


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Old 2004-10-21, 04:20 AM   #49
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Alright, so Carter Hall is a reincarnation of Kator Hal, an ancient Egyptian, who was actually an alien from Thanagar?

Side note, I was reading Identity Crisis #3 (Deathstroke vs JLA) and found out much to my surprise that Hawkman's wings weren't attached to his body. Just a backpack. I never knew that. Of course, I also thought that the beak and feathers were a part of his face, not a mask. Maybe I should brush up on my Hawkman.

Also, another Crisis question, the Marvel Family: how many exist in the post-Crisis universe? Obviously there's Captain Marvel and I think I saw him hugging Mary Marvel (?) in Identity Crisis, but what about the other 30 Marvels?
 
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Old 2004-10-21, 04:47 AM   #50
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Quote:
Originally posted by DrSpengler
Alright, so Carter Hall is a reincarnation of Kator Hal, an ancient Egyptian, who was actually an alien from Thanagar?

Side note, I was reading Identity Crisis #3 (Deathstroke vs JLA) and found out much to my surprise that Hawkman's wings weren't attached to his body. Just a backpack. I never knew that. Of course, I also thought that the beak and feathers were a part of his face, not a mask. Maybe I should brush up on my Hawkman.

Also, another Crisis question, the Marvel Family: how many exist in the post-Crisis universe? Obviously there's Captain Marvel and I think I saw him hugging Mary Marvel (?) in Identity Crisis, but what about the other 30 Marvels?
No Carter Hall is a reincarnation of Prince Khufu an ancient Egyptian. Katar Hol is an entirely different being from the planet Thanagar. Katar was Hawkman while Carter Hall was retired or in Limbo, something like that...

Hawkman's Wings and harness are made of Nth metal, an anti-gravity substance created on Thanagar. The original wings were created from a Thanagarian ship that crashed way back that Prince Khufu discovered. Coincidentally similar wings were created on Thanagar as the garment of the Thanagarian police force, which Katar Hol was a member of...

Captain Marvel was completely rebooted post-Crisis, kind of like Wonder Woman. He never existed before Crisis on Infinite Earths. I believe the only members of the Marvel Family that have been introduced are Captain Marvel Jr., Mary Marvel, and Black Adam. I could be wrong I didn't read the regular series, but I'm pretty sure those are the only ones introduced that had powers.
 


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Old 2004-10-21, 06:08 PM   #51
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In any continunity the Captain Marvel Family has always been Capt Marvel, Mary Capt Marvel Junior and Black Adam.

I've never known of anyone else.

Capt slso had a complete reboot and 'offically' debuted to help out in Crisis ala Wonderwoman. It was easier with the Marvels though as They were from Easth S and had no counter parts because he was a property brough by DC and his stories, untill Crisis, simply occured on another earth and was east to Reboot his history into the DCU.
 

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Old 2004-10-22, 06:34 AM   #52
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No they did all that crazy Marvel family junk back in the day, there was Marvel pets and an Uncle Marvel and stuff...
 


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Old 2004-10-22, 02:34 PM   #53
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Well, as long as I've got some DC experts on hand...

What's the deal with post-Crisis Krypto? I know the original Pre-Crisis one had stowed away on Kal-El's spacecraft (or was that Beppo the superchimp?) and then died when he bit Kryptoniteman.

But what's up with this new one? During the Reign of the Supermen Bibbo saved a puppy from drowning and named him Krypto, but it was just a normal dog. No powers. Then in the recent Geoff Johns Teen Titans run I see Superman giving Superboy Krypto, and he's got all the super powers and everything. Superboy even mentioned Supergirl having a super horse (which I assume is Comet). So what's the deal with that?

Thanks.
 
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Old 2004-10-22, 04:17 PM   #54
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Jeph Loeb and Joe Kelly are idiots, that's what the deal is. Well them and the other two writers and the editor of Superman about 4 years ago I think. They pretty much wanted to bring back as much of the corny **** that was pruned away from Superman...

Ok, let me see. It went something like, Superman uses the Phantom Zone thing to travel to a Krypton that is exactly like the Krypton that existed pre-Crisis. On this Krypton there was a living Krypto. I think General Zod was trying to destroy Krypton or something.

I don't remember the story exactly, I didn't much care for it. Anyway, as Superman is leaving Krypto goes after him and ends up in the real world.
 


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Old 2004-10-23, 12:11 PM   #55
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Quote:
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Jeph Loeb and Joe Kelly are idiots, that's what the deal is. Well them and the other two writers and the editor of Superman about 4 years ago I think. They pretty much wanted to bring back as much of the corny **** that was pruned away from Superman...
And hence I stopped reading Superman to this day and curse that hacks Loeb's name.
 

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Old 2004-10-23, 10:22 PM   #56
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Gah! That's stupid. I liked the "normal" Krypto better, the one Bibbo rescued. So what's the deal with Comet?

One MORE Superman related question. What happened to Matrix-Supergirl? The blonde? In the first ****ty Loeb-written Superman/Batman story arc a black-haired Supergirl was part of the "S-team". Where'd she come from?
 
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Old 2004-10-24, 06:49 AM   #57
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Quote:
Originally posted by DrSpengler
Gah! That's stupid. I liked the "normal" Krypto better, the one Bibbo rescued. So what's the deal with Comet?

One MORE Superman related question. What happened to Matrix-Supergirl? The blonde? In the first ****ty Loeb-written Superman/Batman story arc a black-haired Supergirl was part of the "S-team". Where'd she come from?
Ok, now we're into a great series. "Supergirl" written by Peter David had Matrix/Supergirl merge with Linda Danvers a very troubled young girl on the verge of suicide, actually I think she might have already killed herself.

Anyway, she saves this girl and basically they merge minds and personalities and Supergirl's morphing ability becomes her ability to change between identities.

That led into the revelatioon that Linda/Supergirl was now an Earthbound angel, something like that, and there were others who shared her situation. One of these is Comet, a young lesbian girl who has the ability to become a half horse half man sort of thing. Yeah, I said "man".

This is where it gets interesting, Linda/Supergirl becomes attracted to him, er her. Then she finds out the he, is actually a she. Their's a little exploring of that. It's odd, but iot did deal a lot with the prejudices and hardships of homosexuality.

The series ended with a Supergirl from an alternate reality that is Superman's cousin, like the original Supergirl, coming to our dimension and meeting our Supergirl. I think Linda sacrifices herself. I'm not real clear on how it ended, I remember liking it but I read it a long while ago so it's not exactly fresh. Sorry...

As for a black-haired supergirl that was part of an S-team, got me. I don't read that crap...
 


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Old 2004-10-24, 05:56 PM   #58
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Alright, so that answers that.

I was at the bokstore the other day and found the DC Encylopedea. Very up to date and involved, going all the way to Jim Lee's current run on Superman. I'm going to get that so I can stop bugging you guys.

But before I DO, I have but one final query for you. And it's been bugging me.

Okay, so Wonder Woman didn't come into play until after the battle with the Anti-Minitor. But the Teen Titans existed before the Crisis, as Wally West became the Flash. So then, that would mean that Wondergirl existed before the battle with the Anti-Monitor?

Or did Wonder Woman actually exist before the Crisis and that's just an inconsistancy?
 
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Old 2004-10-24, 06:16 PM   #59
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Oh boy...

You've asked a very hard question now.

Wonder Girl or Donna Troy did exist before Crisis and was a member of the Teen Titans.

They revised her origin about a hundred times since Crisis as they could never get it quite right.

Here is the way it stands currently and it's a little confusing...

Back on Themyscria when Diana was a young child she had no one to play with because all the Amazons are immortal and grown and without the ability to breed. An Amazon sorceress created an identical twin to Diana so that she would have a playmate. A sister...

That's when this evil chick, I forget the name, came to kidnap Diana and send her into an endless loop of lives that would end in tragedy, she got the twin instead. This explains the countless origins Donna's had over the years.

I believe she recieved her powers from the Titans of Greek Mythology, Chronus and Rhea un so on, as a child. She became Wonder Girl in tribute to the Wonder Woman of the 40s and 50s, I think. That's when she joined the Teen Titans.

She later became known as Troia and I think she had a new identity at the end there but I'm not sure if it was ever decided. Mainly she was just called Donna Troy.

She was killed when the Titans and Young Justice fought a Superman Cyborg but there's been hints dropped that she's not dead. I'm nearly positive she'll be back in a year's time...

Oh and another thing, Diana did exist before Crisis, she was a young girl on Themyscria, she just didn't become Wonder Woman til later...

I think they put her as being fashioned from clay about the time Superman and Batman showed up as heroes or just a bit before that. She several years younger than most of her contemporaries though that's not an issue they explore that I can tell...
 


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Old 2004-10-24, 06:41 PM   #60
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Alright, I think I gotcha.

Wondergirl sorta kinda existed before Wonder Woman but took her name from the Golden Age Wonder Woman who no longer exists. Crazy.

But Troia is coming back. At the end of Graduation Day they showed her "alive" in some weird alternate dimension battling evil. Recentlt Ares talked to Wonder Girl and after she left showed more of Troia battling int hat world and said that the two of them would fight in a great apocalyptic battle in the near future. They'll probably address that as soon as the Teen Titans of the Future arc is finished.

Thanks for clearing that up. I'll go buy that encyclopedea now.
 
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