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View Poll Results: Which names should the Headmasters DVD subs use?
American names (Optimus Prime leads the Autobots, and Blaster dies) 16 66.67%
Japanese names (Convoy leads the Cybertrons, and Broadcast dies) 8 33.33%
Voters: 24. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2005-05-15, 05:07 PM   #21
Nevermore
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God Ginrai can't be Optimus Prime because they're not the same character, and Headmasters and Masterforce are part of the same continuity.
 
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Old 2005-05-15, 05:13 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally posted by Nevermore
God Ginrai can't be Optimus Prime because they're not the same character, and Headmasters and Masterforce are part of the same continuity.
But neither are US cartoon Optimus Prime and Japanese cartoon Convoy. Jap Convoy didn't go to Nebulon, or nearly get blown up by the Plasma Energy Chamber. I consider the US Season 1-4 and Jap Season 1-3 to be two different continuities.

-Ss
 
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Old 2005-05-15, 05:14 PM   #23
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Also, to stop Joe Average (who forms the majority of the market) from going "Who in the blue hell is this "Convoy" they're nattering on about?" when they buy the series and don't recognise any names.

Because, y'now, Convoy is Optimus Prime. The Japanese just gave him a different name when they translated our series, and now that we're translating their series, we're using our name for him. I can appreciate an argument regarding "accuracy to the original." But not this one. "The "not the same character" argument certainly applies to Masterforce, and to some degree, even to the Headmasters themselves, but not to Prime, Hot Rod, Kup, Blaster, etc. They're the same guys.
 
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Old 2005-05-15, 05:19 PM   #24
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Hey, my old account still exists! Yeah, well, I guess I'll be posting under this name, now. What I said above. Understand that this is not some kind of fanboy-oriented change - the main reasoning behind it is to make the show more immediately accessible to a wider audience. To label characters with names that the casual fan will not know, and not have any interest in learning, when they already have English names that viewers have known them by for twenty years, is just not good marketing.
 

Last edited by Chris McFeely; 2005-05-15 at 05:25 PM.
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Old 2005-05-15, 05:34 PM   #25
Denyer
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Quote:
Originally posted by The Original Chris
the casual fan
The casual fan won't watch anything but a dub.

Next objection.

Also, something people seem to be missing—it's about five minutes extra work to offer two sets of subtitles. What's the fuss about?

It's text, so no size issues, and the timings only have to be worked out once.
 
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Old 2005-05-15, 05:38 PM   #26
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The set is going to contain the StarTV dub. There are many examples of the casual fan buying the 6-episode HM DVD Maverick released, and being disappointed at the quality and the naming errors. You don't think they'd opt to switch to the sub in the hope of getting a show that's decently-written with names they recognise?

Furthermore, Ken Law, the production mananger at Metrodome, was originally considering doing away with the dub entirely, and just including the sub, so HE thinks that a sub has casual appeal when the alternative is... er, well, ghastly.

Regarding the "two tracks" - I've presented the idea to him. It is indeed definitely the best way to go to appease everyone. But while the mechanics of creating it are simple, I don't know what the additional cost of the process would be, and if the company would be willing to do it.
 
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Old 2005-05-15, 05:58 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally posted by The Original Chris
Furthermore, Ken Law, the production mananger at Metrodome, was originally considering doing away with the dub entirely, and just including the sub, so HE thinks that a sub has casual appeal when the alternative is... er, well, ghastly.

Regarding the "two tracks" - I've presented the idea to him. It is indeed definitely the best way to go to appease everyone. But while the mechanics of creating it are simple, I don't know what the additional cost of the process would be, and if the company would be willing to do it.
It can be a deciding factory for surprisingly many, especially when importing it (going for little trouble getting it). Not in my case, because I want the box, but to be brutally honest...

If the subtitles are like I want it to be (accurate), I'll order it as soon as it's available. Then I know that the company went an extra mile to please the customer (me) and I want to support them.

If I know that I'm going to gringe every time Convoy is addressed as Optimus Prime, I'm not in a hurry to get the box, but may wait for a good deal (in other words cheaper price).
 
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Old 2005-05-15, 06:46 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally posted by The Original Chris
while the mechanics of creating it are simple, I don't know what the additional cost of the process would be, and if the company would be willing to do it.
If they charged more than an hour's time for running a list of substitutions through a text editor, price-gouging would be involved.

Quote:
Originally posted by The Original Chris
There are many examples of the casual fan buying the 6-episode HM DVD Maverick
People bought a disc labelled English audio, and felt let down when the audio was complete crap. It remains to be seen what they'd think if they bought a disc of Japanese language videos.

Question for anyone who's following them; what naming format is being used for the TV Nihon fansubs?
 
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Old 2005-05-15, 07:46 PM   #29
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id like one containing both the japanese original audio and the starTV dub.

This way if i felt like watching the show and actually understanding it id watch the japanese original with subtitles but if i just wanted to watch something casually with it in the background but still you know knowing whats going on id watch the dub.

In terms of the american vs japanese names.... i wouldnt mind.

American - It would be the names i know, with the only problem being that when convoy is addressed on audio optimus prime would be addressed through subtitles.

Japanese - it would take me all of like microseconds to remember the names, i would associate the name being said in the audio to the name on subtitles and could therefore deduce the character the name belongs to... so basically, im for anything.
 
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Old 2005-05-15, 08:34 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally posted by chimung
Well since this is on DVD I assume its safe to say that TV-Nihon can no longer supply fansubs?
If that's the case I'll have to order the set from the UK, then re burn it to Region 1 DVD for my home viewing.
TVN have said they will continue subbing Headmasters until official subtitled DVDs are available in R1.
Quote:
Originally posted by Denyer
Question for anyone who's following them; what naming format is being used for the TV Nihon fansubs?
TVN keeps the accurate names; Convoy/Seibertron/Destron etc.

I can't imagine many people buying this who aren't TF and/or anime fans. Even so, it wouldn't take them long to figure that Optimus Prime is called Convoy in Japan, especially if a simple Who's Who sheet is included. As for Mega Zarak, that shouldn't even be an issue. People outside the fandom zen't likely to remember Scorponok or any other post-movie characters.

The way I see it, if it can't be done accurately, it shouldn't be done at all. I'd love to have HM on DVD, but I know where I can get accurate versions if I'm not pleased with the way they're subbed.
 
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Old 2005-05-15, 09:12 PM   #31
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In regards to accurate dubbing, sure I'd like to see something close to what is being said. Thing is, the change from one language to another language's subtitles tends to differ culturally. Changes based on this are going to occur, though.

Myself, I'd prefer the American names for the original characters. All the talk about a 20-year history of Convoy seems to skip that a good portion of that history was from the States as well, just translated. It's just that at one point, the story veered off into American and Japanese canons. Thing of it is, the switch just so happens to start right at Headmasters. So the idea that we're 'changing' history by using Optimus Prime instead of Convoy is hard to apply if it's right at the start of that change.

Plus the fact that when the cartoon was made here in the States then dubbed in Japan, the names changed. What's the horror in doing it in the reverse? How is it really any different? Again, I'll argue the 'history' point that canon didn't change really until 'Headmasters,' and the U.S.-to-Japan name changing at the beginning of the entire series is no different than a Japan-to-U.S. name changing for the new canon.

In the end, though, further arguements seem to be for preference than any tainting of history. I wouldn't care either way. I'd still buy a set regardless of what they go with.
 
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Old 2005-05-15, 09:59 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally posted by Nevermore
This will only apply to the characters who have already been established by the US cartoon and will not affect future projects for Masterforce and Victory, which have completely difefrent characters from their respective US counterparts.
By the way, this info is false, as also the names of Headmasters would be changed, characters that aren't established in the US cartoon (Rebirth not being a part of Japanese continuity). Spike/Cerebros/Fortress Maximus - Cerebros/Fortress and possibly Zarak/Scorponok - Scorponok/Mega Zarak would be exceptions.
 
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Old 2005-05-16, 08:24 AM   #33
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Names should stay the same-some TF Fans i know know nothing about the japanese names for the Transformers and it would make things better for me-too long to know whos who under the takara name.
 
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Old 2005-05-16, 10:21 AM   #34
Chris McFeely
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Quote:
Originally posted by Osku
If the subtitles are like I want it to be (accurate), I'll order it as soon as it's available. Then I know that the company went an extra mile to please the customer (me) and I want to support them.
I appreciate this, but you need to accept that across every board I've polled, the "Japanese names" viewpoint is the minority, and the company is going to want to please the majority.

Plus, if anything, adding the American names is "going the extra mile," because it means more work.
 
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Old 2005-05-16, 11:36 AM   #35
Osku
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Quote:
Originally posted by The Original Chris
I appreciate this, but you need to accept that across every board I've polled, the "Japanese names" viewpoint is the minority, and the company is going to want to please the majority.
I've noticed (something like 1/3) and I can accept that. It doesn't prevent me from pointing out that the choice brings problems with the headmasters names. Plus, if you asked the same question about Masterforce, people would most propably vote for American names.

If Masterforce is going to released there's going to be "Hey, you used familiar names in Headmasters. Why not now?" arguement. And quite honestly there's not much else but some different colour schemes to counter that arguement. I've been debating this on NTFA forums.

Quote:
Plus, if anything, adding the American names is "going the extra mile," because it means more work. [/B]
Bah, it's meant to please the wider audience -> something they'll "have to" do to bring in more customers. Going for extra trouble for minority of their customers would be the "going for the extra mile".
 
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Old 2005-05-16, 12:16 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally posted by Osku
If Masterforce is going to released there's going to be "Hey, you used familiar names in Headmasters. Why not now?" arguement. And quite honestly there's not much else but some different colour schemes to counter that arguement. I've been debating this on NTFA forums.
I've said it before - they're *totally different characters.* It *barely matters* with the Headmasters - they're still Cybertronians, and almost all their large bodies have the *same names* as America anyway. The only thing that *matters* in this equation is the names of their *heads,* and I don't even think their heads are referred to by name in the show! And even then, the names that are differnet, bar one are all blatant derivatives from the American anyway! But in Masterforce, the Headmasters and Powermasters are utterly different - they're coloured differently, they aren't Cybertronians, and *every single one of them* has a different name! They're *unutterably* different.

I mean, if it's good enough for a *Japanese book* like "Generations" lists the Headmasters as the same characters, but separates the American and Japanese incarnations of the Masterforce characters, then I think it's good enough for a DVD.

And this is for arguing later! Headmasters now, Masterforce when it matters!
 

Last edited by Chris McFeely; 2005-05-16 at 12:26 PM.
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Old 2005-05-16, 01:16 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally posted by The Original Chris
*unutterably* different.
Evidently not, else no-one would be suggesting it. Same goes for anyone mangling the use of "ineffable".

If you give most people the choice, Masterforce will feature US names. Lander / Diver / Phoenix will be Landmine / Waverider / Cloudburst, etc. They've previously featured in US media. Ditto for Shuta, Cab and all the rest. The only bone of contention there is Nightbeat. The Seacons are also well-known, and emphatically don't combine into King Poseidon in the minds of most fans.

Quote:
Originally posted by The Original Chris
the company is going to want to please the majority.
The company has the choice of doing both by going to negligible effort. Not doing so represents a loss of sales. Those are fairly simple economics; you don't run a company by answering even five percent of customer enquiries "we know it's easy, but can't be bothered."
 
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Old 2005-05-16, 01:23 PM   #38
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Quote:
If you give most people the choice, Masterforce will feature US names. Lander / Diver / Phoenix will be Landmine / Waverider / Cloudburst, etc. They've previously featured in US media. Ditto for Shuta, Cab and all the rest. The only bone of contention there is Nightbeat. The Seacons are also well-known, and emphatically don't combine into King Poseidon in the minds of most fans.
Well, I guess Masterforce can be put to poll when the time comes. Personally speaking, I actually *would* want the Pretenders and Seacons to have their American names, being essentially the same as their American counterparts, while the Powermasters and Headmasters would retain their Japanese names, as they're squishies in armour, not Cybertronians. But that's very fiddly and picky-choosy, so if I had to pick one of the other, I'd pick Japanese names. But that's just in the case of this series (man, I'll be glad for Victroy. None of these complications...).

Anyway, let's stick a pin in Masterforce for now. ^_^

Quote:
The company has the choice of doing both by going to negligible effort. Not doing so represents a loss of sales. Those are fairly simple economics; you don't run a company by answering even five percent of customer enquiries "we know it's easy, but can't be bothered."
They certainly do have the choice. I'm not saying that they *won't* go for it, just that I don't know what the added cost is and whether or not it could be deciding in the matter. I think it's a good idea to use two tracks, then everyone's happy, but I don't speak for the opinions of company. I've put it to Ken. We just have to see what his view is on it.
 

Last edited by Chris McFeely; 2005-05-16 at 01:28 PM.
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Old 2005-05-16, 01:39 PM   #39
Denyer
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Quote:
Originally posted by The Original Chris
let's stick a pin in Masterforce for now.
Let's not, because it has bearing on the currently proposed release. If Headmasters uses a naming convention, Masterforce is more likely to follow.

Besides, it'll be great to look forward to Siren, Hosehead and Minerva on the same team, and other such inanities. And there's no reason God Ginrai can't be Powermaster Optimus Prime—they're the same toy, and the toy with extra trailer has even been sold widely across the UK and America.

People see a design and think "same character", whether it's God Ginrai or Convoy. People will also bitch that Powermaster Optimus Prime is now a human, and the pretenders shrink and—

They have for years. Nip it in the bud whilst there's opportunity to put out a correct set.
 
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Old 2005-05-16, 01:52 PM   #40
Sixswitch
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Quote:
Originally posted by Denyer

If you give most people the choice, Masterforce will feature US names. Lander / Diver / Phoenix will be Landmine / Waverider / Cloudburst, etc.
Because Japanese names often sound a bit crap to Western ears.

-Ss
 
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