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Old 2005-03-24, 09:13 AM   #41
Cliffjumper
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Well, the Beeb have pretty much accepted the Virgin 7th Doctor [McCoy] books as canon, so she's deaded... the vague implication is the McCoy Doctor spend possibly centuries going around being all high and mighty between the end of the original series, and forgetting to look out the window first in The Almost An Hour And A Half McGann Movie Thing and getting shot by cunning Asian-Americans who can make other Asian-Americans disapear without any action. McGann then buggered off by himself after realising that Doctor Holloway bird wasn't going to put out, and Li was a thieving little **** who changed sides whenever the balance of power shifted. You see what happens when you let Americans take charge of things? I'm wondering what they're going to do about the half-human ****, all the crap with the TARDIS and disguising the fact that the Eighth Doctor's career, to most people, consisted of an hour or so charging around America trying to get a shag and changing history. Some of the gutter press have been saying there might be romance between the Doctor and Rose. Oh God... At least Tom and Lalla just about kept their clothes on when the cameras rolling.

The Beeb novels saddled him with a bunch of faceless wonders who've probably been written out in preparation. So technically he's bumbling around by himself as he does from time to time.

Oh, random note for anyone who doesn't know who cares - Andrew's highly unlikely to have seen every episode of Doctor Who, because ~100 aren't in existence due to the Beeb's far-sighted archival policies, which saw lots of 1960s stories wiped when they were declared obsolete in the advent of colour TV. Which is quite lauaghable when you consider how much they've probably shelled out charging around foreign TV stations since on the off-chance they might have a couple of episodes of "Marco Polo" that can be bunged on a twenty-quid DVD.
 
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Old 2005-03-24, 10:34 AM   #42
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I've got fairly high hopes about this, for some reason. I've never really bothered with the Doctor before, and I don't know why I'm starting now, but what the hell - I need something besides Captain Scarlet to watch on a Saturday.
 


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Old 2005-03-24, 11:00 AM   #43
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Quote:
Originally posted by Cliffjumper
Well, the Beeb have pretty much accepted the Virgin 7th Doctor [McCoy] books as canon, so she's deaded...
I didn't think she was dead in the NA's... Doesn't she get left on Gallifrey or some such? (This is from a half remembered interview with Marc Platt in Shockeye's Kitchen so I may be wrong...).
Comic Ace was killed off though...

I'm actually finding Billie growing on me... She was quite spunky on Chris Moyles the other day...

Quote:
Why does he need a new companion anyway?
Because the companion is ment to be the audience identification charecter, and as the show is primarily aimed at teenagers the middle aged Sophie Aldred no longer qualifies. It's a very "by comittie" way to create charecters, but the companions have almost always been designed that way...

I'm betting the whole romance thing is mostly bollocks to try and make Rose seem more pivitol to the show... Certainly it's not as unique as the interviews are making out. Docone got engaged to an Aztec (and seemed really heartbroken when he goes back for the broach at the end), the 5th was always filrting with women (most noticiably the Liver Birds in Kinda and the Awakening) and the 8th can't keep the ladies off him in all the media he's been in.

I'm definately psyched about the new show though- but even if it's fantastic and a ratings success I can't see the beeb doing more than two seasons before remembering that "Science Fiction isn't popular" and canning it.
 
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Old 2005-03-24, 11:51 AM   #44
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Quote:
Originally posted by inflatable dalek
Because the companion is ment to be the audience identification charecter
But surely the continual rebooting throughout the years undermines that?

I'm no stranger to cast overhauls (MASH, Buffy, etc), but surely replacing effectively the entire cast on a regular basis just undermines audience identification?

If the supposed hook for the show is our emotional investment in the companion, then why does the audience carry over between regenerations?

Personally I've always found the continual reboots to be most bizarre. I have difficulty regarding the new series as even being Dr Who - it's starring somebody completely different, the secondary character is somebody completely new, it's written by people who (as far as I know) weren't involved in previous series... it just seems weird to me.

Maybe it's just me. To me, Dr Who has pretty much been what I'd watch hungover on a Sunday morning on UK Gold... but at least the various incarnations of the Doctor fought similar villains and dressed more or less alike. Now all that's left is the villains.

I mean, would we all be excited if it was suddenly announced that Steven Moffatt had been commissioned to write and produce a new series of Buffy, with Jodie Marsh in the lead and a new group of friends comprised of the former members of Hear'Say?
 

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Old 2005-03-24, 11:09 PM   #45
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Quote:
Originally posted by Cliffjumper
At least Tom and Lalla just about kept their clothes on when the cameras rolling.
Not that I think many of us would have complained had Lalla been less than successful.

Quote:
Originally posted by Cliffjumper
The Beeb novels saddled him with a bunch of faceless wonders
Hmm... was Benny / Bernice in the TV show, BTW? She was cool, and I only know many of the companions from the books.

edit:

Quote:
Originally posted by The HeartBrend Kid
would we all be excited if it was suddenly announced that Steven Moffatt had been commissioned to write and produce a new series of Buffy, with Jodie Marsh in the lead and a new group of friends comprised of the former members of Hear'Say?
There's canon explanation for the Doctor changing... makes far more sense than James Bond, anyway.
 
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Old 2005-03-25, 03:12 AM   #46
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Bollocks! yes, Dalek, I was thinking of Roz Forrester. D, and indeed, 'oh, though I haven't read many since '96. Incidentalyl, could you recommend some 8th Doctor novels, as they're on three for a fiver at the Works and I like those maths. I picked up a Cornell one [Shaodws of Avalaon or soemsuch] as the cover and blurb appealed, so if you could point me in the way of some worth reading I'd be most grateful

Quote:
Originally posted by Denyer
Not that I think many of us would have complained had Lalla been less than successful.
Vampire Circus! Vampire Circus! *is banned* *unbans* which has the added bonus of Ethan Raine from Buffy trying very hard not to chew up the scenery. Cinema Club released it a few years ago on VHS [it's actually a rather wonderful little film for seventies Hammer].

Quote:

Hmm... was Benny / Bernice in the TV show, BTW? She was cool, and I only know many of the companions from the books.
Nope. Paul "Starscreamer" Cornell introduced her in the Love & War NA. Always pictured her as Julia Swalha myself.

Yeh, Who does bear some slight format similarity with Bond, but with a scripted explanation... the Doctor's character, in its' basic form, remains constant, but different aspects are emphasised from incarnation to incarnation - McCoy wasn't the only one with one eye always on the big picture, Colin wasn't the only one who had fits of petulance and arrogant, Troughton wasn't the only clown, Pertwee wasn't the only one you wanted to bitch-slap into next week...

The traditional companion really has been pretty much constant since the seventies, and Jo... aside from biographical details, there's not a lot to distinguish Jo from Sarah Jane, or Sarah Jane from Peri, or Peri from Mel. Even the more mould-breaking companions like Leela, the Romanas, Turlough and Ace fulfilled the narrative demands by asking questiosn and getting into scrapes. Other changes, like the introduction of Harry in Season 12, or the Adric/Nyssa/Tegan stories, mainly served to simply split up this role between a number of characters.

The other important factor is that there are usually a number of familiar faces to ground any cast changes - the only other time a fresh regular cast was introduced was for Season 7, and even then the Brigadier, who'd guested in the past two series, was present. The first regeneration had Ben and Polly, the third Sarah Jane and UNIT, the fourth had Adprick, Nyssa and Tegan, the fifth had Peri, the sixth had Mel and even the seventh had McCoy. And that's not to mention the production teams.

In this respect, it's a little more similar to a soap - people have watched EastEnders from the start, despite no ever-present characters.

However, I do agree that it's hard to connect this series to the original 26 seasons, which were at least made by the same company successively. I'd just like to know what some people's views on this would be if it was made by an American company, or what they'll say when the new show makes its' first attempt to drop the enourmous continuity the show's built up.
 
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Old 2005-03-25, 04:52 AM   #47
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Quote:
Originally posted by Cliffjumper
Vampire Circus!
Judging by the 250+ stills which, er, spontaneously fell out of Google, it's more a case of her surrounded by naked women and cat-people, but the corset and cherubic grin pre-fangs are very fetching.

Quote:
Originally posted by Cliffjumper
Nope. Paul "Starscreamer" Cornell introduced her in the Love & War NA. Always pictured her as Julia Swalha myself.
The voice actress actually seems to bear quite a resemblance to the covers...

http://www.richardwho.com/collections/Images/bfbs-4.jpg
http://www.drwhoguide.com/bf/bs_a03.jpg

Hmm. Colin Baker's changed a bit.

8th Doctor... big list of links to Amazon entries, some with site reviews:

http://www.timelord.co.uk/features/matrix/8books.htm

This site has long synopses, though crap navigation:

http://www.drwhoguide.com/

(edit: correction, there's a bloody annoying self.focus() javascript on the page)

Two I remember off the top of my head are The Slow Empire and Reckless Engineering; very different but each enjoyable.
 
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Old 2005-03-25, 05:25 AM   #48
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Quote:
Originally posted by Denyer
Judging by the 250+ stills which, er, spontaneously fell out of Google, it's more a case of her surrounded by naked women and cat-people, but the corset and cherubic grin pre-fangs are very fetching.
Hmm, could've sworn Lalla did, in the first or second scene where Count Karstein [I think it was Karstein, most of them were once they stopped using Drac] gets all vamped up. Either that or she was in something similar - there is one really bad still clonking around the internet. I would check my copy of VC, but I appear to have put it somewhere. That's going to bug me now.

I shall pore through those reviews and see what The Works have on offer... hopefully they won't prove scalper-bait like those bloody TF books they had.

Argh, Birthright. that has to be one of the worst books I've ever read...
 
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Old 2005-03-25, 07:41 AM   #49
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As Cliffy pointed. Unless the series has been canceled then from one regeneration to the next the companion has been carried over. I usspose what kept the series intresting was the fact different companions change things a little. Idealy when the characters done everything they can and different one can appeal.
Jo lasted as long as virtually all the Doctors bar 2. Sarah Jane lasted longer than many thanks in part to Liz Sladen's perfect portrayal of a likeable but noisy every woman and great chemistry with 2 very different doctors.

To be fair bredn's point aboiut character continunity can be explained bybthe fact the two longest lasting Doctor's had the highest ratings.
The BBC clearly realised this as they have often selling the series with the image of the TARDIS-The one constant (The exterior at least) through out Doctor Who history, which Ironically would have been scrapped after the first show as it was susposed to change with every new destination (to blend in) except the shows budget didn't allow it and they had to keep it.
 

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Old 2005-03-25, 07:17 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally posted by Cliffjumper
Incidentalyl, could you recommend some 8th Doctor novels, as they're on three for a fiver at the Works and I like those maths.
I list my personal faves here: http://fancomics.3.forumer.com/index...=0&#entry17716

I'd like to add Vampire Science, which reads like the authors had seen the first few episodes of the then very new Buffy and thought "That's the way to do it!"

Quote:
originaly posted by Denyer
The voice actress actually seems to bear quite a resemblance to the covers...
She does now, but the original look for Benny on the NA covers was apparently based on the charecters inspiration, Emma Thompson.

Quote:
what they'll say when the new show makes its' first attempt to drop the enourmous continuity the show's built up.
The plan isn't to drop the continuity, just not to reference it heavily (somthing the original run did as well most of the time, on the Letts and JNT era's really overly aknowledge the shows continuity).

And for the record, the lovely former Mrs. Tom Baker isn't nude in Vampire Circus, but does get her kit off in another film- the name of which escapes me. However, the produces atempted to spice things up by cuting in shots of a body double showing slightly more flesh, which deeply annoyed her...
 
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Old 2005-03-25, 07:50 PM   #51
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http://members.fortunecity.com/tylorhan/rev.html

^ And caused her to successfully bring legal action against Club magazine.
 
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Old 2005-03-25, 08:04 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally posted by Denyer
http://members.fortunecity.com/tylorhan/rev.html

^ And caused her to successfully bring legal action against Club magazine.
I stoped reading when it got to Sylvester McCoy's nude stage role (which no doubt involves ferrets).

Someone posted some screen grabs that conclusivly prove you can see a bit of nipple when the illusion of Peri is being tortured in The Two Doctors, all thanks to the wonder of DVD clarity.
 
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Old 2005-03-26, 01:03 AM   #53
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jetfire 2.1
A
To be fair Brend's point about character continunity can be explained by the fact the two longest lasting Doctor's had the highest ratings.
Hartnell only did three and a bit seasons, which was less than Pertwee, who did five. That's also given to be inaccurate as Hartnell's ratings were though the roof for the first season-and-a-half, then nosedived by about 60% - they were well on the way before the loss of the final two members of the original supporting cast. Similarly, Tom's ratings were better for his first three seasons, and then would have tailed off it not for the ITV strike hugely inflating the first half of season 17's figures. Davison and Colin Baker's ratings were also on the slump from the very start - and Davison's at least can't be blamed on the show itself.

I think Who's ratings were as much down to the competition and times as the actors... Otherwise there's no Godly reason why half would suddenly switch to being Buck Rogers fans in the space of a year [Season 18's actually conclusive proof that slapping Tom on the front of whatever doesn't equal ratings gold - and the character's nowhere near as mellowed as is often made out]. Doctor Who basically wasn't equipped to deal with the American competition that came after the Star Wars films, and viewers were asking for more of its' visuals - and let's be brutally blunt - even the very highpoints of Doctor Who's effects [the Dalek flying in Remembrance; the opening shot of Trial, all of Warrrior's Gate] could be matched by crap like V or Alien Nation. There was also the episodic format, which by the eighties was really hammering in the nails compared to the largely self-contained narrative of most imports, e.g. Star Trek TNG. The casual viewer simply couldn't remember minor characters that appeared three weeks previously, and thus didn't care... In the 1960s and 1970s, TV was more something people sat down and watched as their sole focal point - proof of this are the high quality audio recordings of old serials, entirely possible because families really would sit in silence and watch TV at those times. From the 1980s on, TV was less special, and the idea of television as wallpaper came in, and viewers expected to be able to dip in and out. As a popular TV programme, rather than something you could get on video and effectively treat as a 90-minute film with a few loo-breaks, Who failed to adapt. Of course, that's for the best as far as we're concerned, as we'd never had have stuff as wonderfully multilayered as the Cartmel scripts otherwise.

Sure, something owes to the actor's popularity, but there are other things to consider... Tom wouldn't have got good ratings up against Corrie [where the McCoy episodes regularly drew up to four million viewers more than most things that have had the "sacrificial lamb" slot opposite the soap], Billie probably wouldn't have done half so well had the whole concept not been so astonishing in the sixties, Pertwee wouldn't have done so well if his stories had been filmed in black & white, etc, etc. Ratings are more subjective than lots of people think - in terms of ratings, I think McGann's something daft like 3rd or 4th on averages, entirely down to a one-shot movie after a seven-year wait with a lot of promotion. A McGann regular series would never have averaged 9 million viewers. Ratings-wise Ecclescake's going to do really well, what with trailers everywhere and more national coverage than the programme's ever received. And personalyl I reckon once the "wow, new Doctor Who!" novelty's gone, ratings will most likely slide.

God, I do bang on, don't I?

Cheers for the recommendations and nudity, chaps! I will check out both soon

EDIT: ID, have you actually seen Shada?
 
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Old 2005-03-26, 10:20 AM   #54
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Quote:
Originally posted by Cliffjumper
Tom's ratings were better for his first three seasons, and then would have tailed off it not for the ITV strike hugely inflating the first half of season 17's figures.
True, but don't forget that the single highest rating for season 17 (and thus the highest Doctor Who rating in the World ever) was the week after the strike ended, a point where you'd expect the figures to fall... Then again, the "We apologise for the Break in Transmission" card on ITV apparently got viewing higher viewing figures than most Channel Four shows do now...

Quote:
Originally posted by Cliffjumper

EDIT: ID, have you actually seen Shada?
I've seen the Paul McGann remake, which bar a bit of fudging to get Romana and K.9 2 with the 8th Doctor is supposed to be very faithful... Whilst not in The City of Death ballpark, it's still preaty good. Oh, and I've read Dirk Gentry as well, which is preaty much the novelisation...

EDIT: Just read a fairly credible rumore that at least one part of the NA/BBC Books continuity will be directly refered to, the destruction of Gallifrey...
 

Last edited by inflatable dalek; 2005-03-26 at 11:24 AM.
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Old 2005-03-26, 03:42 PM   #55
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Indeed. MaCoy was a huge victim of the powers that be at the BBC being determined to kill the show in whatever way they could. Seeing as the BBC has decided to mostly scrap the multipart story for the new series and the return to it's original time along with making the companion appear equally as improtant as the Doc himself is suggesting they want real legs.

Continunity is important to. JNT in the 80's went overboard on continunity referencing even stories not completly in existance 15-20 years before. How could a fan grown up in the 70's or 80's keep up with that and why would they want to? keep continunity but don't make it important. The important thing about the show is that it is a platform for almost any sort of story you can imagine.

I'm sure ratings will drop, they do for all shows as the series progress', but I'm sure they will remain consistently high. The youth factor, DVD sales and forgien market sales could help infulnce where the show goes. It helps all those who have seen it are pointing to positive reviews but i'll make my on mind up in 4 hours or so.
 

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Old 2005-03-26, 05:49 PM   #56
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Default [DOCTOR WHO] Your reviews and opinions in here!

Oh my gosh! oh my gosh! oh my gosh! oh my gosh!
New Doctor Who!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Just an hour and a half to go and then the new series starts - I can't convey to anyone reading this how excited I am! New Who!!!!! This is the first time since 1996 that we'll all have sat down and watched new Doctor who being broadcast on BBC!

I thought I'd start this thread and then people can review the show as it happens - I'm interested to hear what other viewers (fans or otherwise) make of the show! So please let us know.

Episode #1 is on at 7:00pm on BBC1 tonight.
 

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Old 2005-03-26, 06:06 PM   #57
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Originally posted by inflatable dalek

I've seen the Paul McGann remake, which bar a bit of fudging to get Romana and K.9 2 with the 8th Doctor is supposed to be very faithful... Whilst not in The City of Death ballpark, it's still preaty good. Oh, and I've read Dirk Gentry as well, which is preaty much the novelisation...
Ah, Douglas and his copious reuse of his Who material... for such an ahead-of-his-time chap, he obviously didn't see video releases coming...

Erm, I'll lend you my boot of Shada when I send you those NAs [I'll PM a list a bit later, I've found a few kicking around]. Quite why I copied Shada over the hundred-odd better stories I had I don't know, but I suppose it's prevented me ever spending any money on the thing [the first episode has about 18 minutes of footage completed, which falls to about a minute or two for part 6, and once you total in the fact the beeb insist on full credits and a recap for each episode, there's not a lot left over] which is actually rather poor - it's not terribly funny or interesting, and to be honest if I can dissuade you from doing the same, seeing as last time I looked it still fetched a fair bit on video, that'll be good

While I do think some of the JNT era stories did go OTT on past continuity [Attack of the Cybermen springs to mind], most of the continuity references are harmless - there's usually some serious explosition in the more "sequel"-like stories [such as Resurrection fo the Daleks, where Davros ignores his own memories to get a recap about Destiny of the Daleks for the audience's benefit]. I think it's often over-estimated how much the casual audience actually cared or attempted to understand the more complex areas of the plot - while the fans can, say, ponder how the Dalek factions have changed between Revelation and Remembrance, how Davros is the Emperor, and that kind of thing, the casual viewer will be largely wondering how the Doctor's going to stop them,
 
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Old 2005-03-26, 06:30 PM   #58
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Did anyone else see the preview thingy on BBC 1? Completely batty (how did I ever fail to see that Jon Pertwee is Jimi Hendrix?!), but all the clips look great...

One thing that's annoying me about the prepublicity is the constant harping about Eclesey being the first non-southern ponce Doctor. I mean, it's not as if McCoy tried to hide his Scotish accent...

Quote:
Indeed. MaCoy was a huge victim of the powers that be at the BBC being determined to kill the show in whatever way they could.
Stephen Spielberg didn't help either, it was at that time Philip Segal (who'd later do the TV Movie at Fox) first aproached the Beeb about an American version on behalf of Amblin. The chance to make ****loads of money through American sales without having to actually do anything like make the show helped end the original run.
 
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Old 2005-03-26, 06:49 PM   #59
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yay! Doctor Who threads have now replaced Buffy as the main topic here! I always knew this day would come... Can't wait.
 
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Old 2005-03-26, 07:26 PM   #60
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Hmm, can't decide whether I'm loving this or hating it.


K, its finished, and I reckon I'll watch it again.


Tho maybe they should retitle it "Northener and Chav's Wacky Time Travel Adventures"
 


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