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Old 2006-01-29, 07:25 PM   #1
Prowl1984
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What would Deadpool do?
Smile The age old debate...Marvel Vs DC

Ok, im sure this has been done to death but what the hey, im bored and havent participated in this debate.

Marvel
Positives
- Spider-man
- X-Men
- The Ultimates/ Avengers
- a great knack for breathing new life into established stories/ heroes ( ultimate series, house of M etc)

- an ability to get the readers to relate to the characters by taking on the major issues, X-men- racism etc
- Great Movie adaptations
- Awsome cartoons (except for one or two)
- Managed to save it's sorry ass in amazing fantasy #15 with the introduction of spidey.
- no fear of killing off established characters such as Colossus, Hawkeye etc

Negatives
- Captain America ( i still don't like his character even if his commie bashing days are over)
- some ideas are getting a little thin, for example some of the students at Xaviers school just seem pointless. i.e an old woman that wanders around with a brain in a jar...
- The Fantastic Four cartoon...
- Constantly bringing back Dead villains, Magneto, Doc Ock etc
- No really interesting new characters or comics, they just seem to focus on doing new things with old ones.

DC
Positives
- Batman
- JLA
- The JLA and Batman animated series'
- Seemed to have reinvented themselves
- Association with Vertigo comics (Sandman and Constantine, i'm not sure on this one though so help me out)
- Has always seemed alot more darker and adult than Marvel, especially in recent Batman stories, they're not afraid to show a bit of blood.
- Crisis on infinite Earths (i still need to read this but i've heard good things)
- Great Supervillains

Negatives
- Superman, i always found him to be a boring character
- Robin...nuff said, nightwing was cool though
- poor movie adaptations, i disliked all the superman films, the new one looks interesting and i do enjoy smallville now and again so only time will tell on this one. The first two Batman films were great, the two after were terrible (although i still enjoy batman forever...only for Tommy lee jones playing a superb Two-face), batman begins has renewed my faith though.
- Not as many stand-out characters as Marvel, Marvel have their Knights and various superhero teams, Most of the memorable DC characters seem to have banded together.

Ok, in all fairness i know more about Marvel than i do about DC but this is a good way for me to brush up on my knowledge so go easy on me.
 



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"Life's a trip, and then you die" -
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Old 2006-01-29, 07:34 PM   #2
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I sidestep the debate by mostly reading stuff by other companies (even if DC have a habit of buying and incorporating them, they aren't mainstream DC universe) and the Vertigo imprint.

More interesting question, IMO: Marvel vs DC, non-superhero comics output. I don't know much about their non-cape books at all.
 
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Old 2006-01-29, 07:57 PM   #3
Prowl1984
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Quote:
Originally posted by Denyer
I sidestep the debate by mostly reading stuff by other companies (even if DC have a habit of buying and incorporating them, they aren't mainstream DC universe) and the Vertigo imprint.

More interesting question, IMO: Marvel vs DC, non-superhero comics output. I don't know much about their non-cape books at all.
Same here, although im excited about Marvel adapting Stephen Kings Dark Tower series. i read about it in their newsletter before crimbo and i love that saga. Marvel seem to focus entirely on their cape-books, i don't think i've seen anything else by them. i do read other companies books such as slave-labour and IDW, but i tend to focus on the two giants, it just turns out that way
 



"No point in long goodbyes, here's the door."

"Life's a trip, and then you die" -
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Old 2006-01-30, 12:03 AM   #4
Dead Man Wade
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Default Re: The age old debate...Marvel Vs DC

Quote:
Originally posted by Prowl1984
- no fear of killing off established characters such as Colossus, Hawkeye etc
The lack of fear comes from knowing they're just going to bring them back a year or two later.

Quote:
- No really interesting new characters or comics, they just seem to focus on doing new things with old ones.
Book of Lost Souls. Read it.

Quote:
- Has always seemed alot more darker and adult than Marvel, especially in recent Batman stories, they're not afraid to show a bit of blood.
Only since Crisis, and it's not like Marvel has ever had any problem bloodying anyone. Hell, Spider-man's eye got ripped out.

Quote:
- Crisis on infinite Earths (i still need to read this but i've heard good things)
Meh. Crisis has its good points, but I'd hardly call it stellar. Mostly, it's a jumbled, convoluted mess.

Quote:
- Robin...nuff said, nightwing was cool though
Depends. Dick Grayson as Robin never thrilled me, and Jason Todd was sheer crap (until recently), but Tim Drake is great.

Quote:
(although i still enjoy batman forever...only for Tommy lee jones playing a superb Two-face)
Um...what? Tommy Lee Jones was horrid as Two Face.

Quote:
- Not as many stand-out characters as Marvel, Marvel have their Knights and various superhero teams, Most of the memorable DC characters seem to have banded together.
I don't know. Recently, they've managed to make a number of characters really good (Catman, for god's sake).

Quote:
Originally posted by Denyer
More interesting question, IMO: Marvel vs DC, non-superhero comics output. I don't know much about their non-cape books at all.
It's a lot less prevalent than over at DC, but it does exist (primarily as part of their new 'Icon' imprint). Book of Lost Souls has been amazing, and Straczynski (or however it's spelled) did an interesting one shot called Dream Police.
 
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Old 2006-01-30, 12:11 AM   #5
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I think DC has to win the debate based on Alan Moore output alone. Sure the little bit he did at Marvel was some good comics but Swamp Thing, ABC comics, Watchmen and V for Vendetta... That's some of the best stuff out there.

Not to mention Sandman, though I just mentioned it and BTW, Cliffy needs to stop making excuses and just read the damn series already!!!
 
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Old 2006-01-30, 06:20 AM   #6
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DC wins for me

I have barely read any Marvel comics and enjoyed them in recent times, with the few exceptions being the Ultimate line, Young Avengers, Captain America and Astonishing X-Men.

DC though, I regularly try and keep up with whats going on in alot of books, The Flash, Green Lantern, Batman books (im quite behind on these, up to War Games) Teen Titans, JSA, and ive been utterly gripped by whats beein going on in Infinite Crisis.

Identity Crisis was a nice deconstruction of well established heroes and a great story, despite its poor conclusion

SPOILER! (select to read)
(im sorry but, Jean Loring being the killer just didnt work for me at all)


We have the damned spoilers tag for a reason!
-Luke

 
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Old 2006-01-30, 10:36 AM   #7
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Er.....why have an one or the other? Never understood that. I buy books I want to read from both companies, and ignore a ton of books from both companies.
 
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Old 2006-01-30, 03:56 PM   #8
Cliffjumper
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Well said... you don't buy albums according to record label, do you?

"Yeh, I listen to stuff like Virgin and Captiol... EMI have lost it, d00d"
 
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Old 2006-01-30, 07:38 PM   #9
Prowl1984
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Quote:
Originally posted by Zisteau
Er.....why have an one or the other? Never understood that. I buy books I want to read from both companies, and ignore a ton of books from both companies.
oh no don't get me wrong here, i read both myself, a good comic's a good comic. i was just wandering what people's preference is if they have one. i prefer Marvel but they just happen be the comics i buy regularly. It's like whether you were a Sega Kid or a Nintendo Kid, you play both but you have a preference for one over the other.
 



"No point in long goodbyes, here's the door."

"Life's a trip, and then you die" -
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Old 2006-01-30, 10:33 PM   #10
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Alright, here's a list of the TPBs I own from both companies. I've lumped all the Vertigo/WildStorm/ABC titles in with DC too:

Marvel
Alpha Flight: You Gotta Be Kiddin’ Me
Alpha Flight: Waxing Poetic
Astonishing X-Men: Gifted
Astonishing X-Men: Dangerous
Avengers: World Trust
Avengers: The Search For She-Hulk
Avengers/Thunderbolts: The Nefaria Protocols
Avengers/Thunderbolts: Best Intentions
Bring Back The Bad Guys
Captain Marvel: First Contact
Captain Marvel: Coven
Excalibur: Forging The Sword
Exiles: Down The Rabbit Hole
Exiles: A World Apart
Exiles: Out Of Time
Exiles: Legacy
Exiles: Unnatural Instincts
Exiles: Fantastic Voyage
Exiles: A Blink In Time
Exiles: Earn Your Wings
Exiles: Bump In The Night
Exiles: Age Of Apocalypse
Exiles: Timebreakers
Fantastic Four: Heroes Reborn
Ghost Rider
G.I.Joe Vol. 1 (Marvel)
G.I.Joe Vol. 2 (Marvel)
G.I.Joe Vol. 3 (Marvel)
G.I.Joe Vol. 4 (Marvel)
G.I.Joe Vol. 5 (Marvel)
G.I.Joe Vs. The Transformers
Infinity Gauntlet, The
Inhumans
Last Hero Standing
Marvel Knights 2099
Marvel Team-Up: The Golden Child
Marvels
New Avengers: Breakout
New Thunderbolts: One Step Forward
Spider-Man Vs. Venom
Spider-Man’s Greatest Team-Ups
Squadron Supreme
Supreme Power: Contact
Supreme Power: Powers & Principalities
Supreme Power: High Command
Thanos: Epiphany
Transformers: Beginnings
Transformers: New Order
Transformers: Cybertron Redux
Transformers: Showdown
Transformers: Breakdown
Transformers: Primal Scream
Transformers: Matrix Quest
Transformers: End Of The Road
Transformers: All Fall Down
Transformers UK: City Of Fear
Transformers UK: Time Wars
Transformers UK: Target: 2006
Transformers UK: Space Pirates
Transformers UK: Fallen Angel
Transformers UK: Legacy Of Unicron
Transformers Generation 2: Dark Designs
Transformers Generation 2: Rage In Heaven
U.S. War Machine
Ultimate Annuals
Ultimate Galactus Book 1: Ultimate Nightmare
Ultimate Galactus Book 2: Ultimate Secret
Ultimate X-Men: The Tomorrow People
Ultimate X-Men: Ultimate War
Ultimates, The: Super-Human
Ultimates, The: Homeland Security
Ultimates 2: Gods & Monsters
Union Jack
The Villainy Of Doctor Doom
X-Men: X-Tinction Agenda

DC
Aquaman: Time & Tide
Authority, The: Relentless
Authority, The: Under New Management
Authority, The: Earth Inferno and other stories
Authority, The: Transfer Of Power
Batman: The Dark Knight Returns
Batman: Sword Of Azrael
Batman: Knightfall Part One: Broken Bat
Batman: Knightfall Part Two: Who Rules The Night
Batman: Knightfall Part Three: KnightsEnd
Constantine: the Hellblazer Collection
Day Of Vengeance
Doctor Mid-Nite
Fables: Legends In Exile
Fables: Animal Farm
Fables: Storybook Love
Fables: March Of The Wooden Soldiers
Flash, The: Born To Run
Flash, The: Terminal Velocity
Flash, The: Dead Heat
Flash, The: Race Against Time
Flash, The: Blood Will Run
Flash, The: Rogues
Flash, The: Crossfire
Flash, The: Blitz
Flash, The: Ignition
Flash, The: The Secret Of Barry Allen
Flash, The: Rogue War
Green Lantern: A New Dawn
Green Lantern: Emerald Knights
Hawkman: Endless Flight
Hawkman: Allies And Enemies
Hawkman: Wings Of Fury
JLA: New World Order
JLA: American Dreams
JLA: Rock Of Ages
JLA: Justice For All
JLA: World War III
JLA: Tower Of Babel
JLA: Divided We Fall
JLA: Golden Perfect
JLA: Terror Incognita
JLA: The Obsidian Age Book One
JLA: The Obsidian Age Book Two
JLA: Rules Of Engagement
JLA: Trial By Fire
JLA: The Tenth Circle
JLA: Pain Of The Gods
JLA/JSA: Virtue & Vice
JLA/Titans: The Technis Imperative
John Constantine, Hellblazer: Original Sins
John Constantine, Hellblazer: Rare Cuts
John Constantine, Hellblazer: Dangerous Habits
John Constantine, Hellblazer: Fear And Loathing
John Constantine, Hellblazer: Tainted Love
John Constantine, Hellblazer: Damnation’s Flame
John Constantine, Hellblazer: Rake At The Gates Of Hell
John Constantine, Hellblazer: Son Of Man
JSA: Justice Be Done
JSA: Darkness Falls
JSA: The Return Of Hawkman
JSA: Fair Play
JSA: Stealing Thunder
JSA: The Liberty Files
JSA: Savage Times
JSA: Princes Of Darkness
JSA: Black Reign
JSA: Lost
JSA All-Stars
JSA: Golden Age
Justice League Elite: Volume One
Kingdom, The
Kingdom Come
League Of Extraordinary Gentlemen, The (Volume 1)
League Of Extraordinary Gentlemen, The (Volume 2)
Monarchy, The: Bullets Over Babylon
New Teen Titans, The: The Judas Contract
New Teen Titans, The: Who Is Donna Troy?
Nightwing: Year One
Nightwing: A Knight In Blüdhaven
Nightwing: A Darker Shade Of Justice
Nightwing: Love And Bullets
Nightwing: The Hunt For Oracle
Nightwing: Big Guns
Outsiders: Looking For Trouble
Outsiders: Sum Of All Evil
Outsiders: Wanted
Planetary: All Over The World & Other Stories
Planetary: The Fourth Man
Planetary: Leaving The 20th Century
Sandman: Preludes & Nocturnes
Sandman: Doll’s House
Sandman: Dream Country
Sandman: Season Of Mists
Sandman: A Game Of You
Sandman: Fables & Reflections
Sandman: Brief Lives
Sandman: World’s End
Sandman: The Kindly Ones
Sandman: The Wake
StormWatch: Force Of Nature
StormWatch: Lightning Strikes
StormWatch: Change Or Die
StormWatch: A Finer World
StormWatch: Final Orbit
StormWatch: Team Achilles (Volume One)
StormWatch: Team Achilles (Volume Two)
Superman/Batman: Public Enemies
Teen Titans: A Kid’s Game
Teen Titans: Family Lost
Teen Titans: Beast Boys & Girls
Vertigo: First Taste
Watchmen
World Without A Superman
Young Justice: A League Of Their Own
Young Justice: Sins Of Youth

Marvel & DC
Crossover Classics Volume One
Crossover Classics II
Crossover Classics Volume Three
Crossover Classics IV

As for ongoing series, I am collecting (or have collected):
Heroes Reborn (Avengers/FF/Iron Man/Captain America)
Black Panther (Marvel Knights)
Marvel Knights
Outsiders*
New Avengers*
Green Lantern*
Avengers
X-Men

Yes, I am sat on the border. My two favourite titles at the moment are Exiles and Fables (I only get them in TPB- but enjoy them immensely when I do get them). As far as current titles go, I collect mainly mini-series it seems.

So, I just have no real way of pickign between. Like Cliffy said, you don't listen to one record label; you listen to particular artists. Think of each title as a band or performer and you can see the point very easily.

I just like some characters more than others- or, in some cases, the way a writer works for that title. JLA, for example, has been plagued with some terrible storylines: but Kurt Busiek brought some new life to it when he hopped on, so I'm a little happier. Exiles and Fables are the mot consistently enjoyable- Bill Willingham's concept and storytelling is wonderful for the Fables series, but I heard his run on Robin has been dire. He's not suited to that. Let Chuck Dixon do it.


There are too many factors to consider to truly say that one company is better.
 

"I hold to a simple philosophy: assume everyone's a piece of c*** and then be pleasantly surprised if you find people who ain't."
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Old 2006-01-31, 12:27 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally posted by Cliffjumper
Well said... you don't buy albums according to record label, do you?

"Yeh, I listen to stuff like Virgin and Captiol... EMI have lost it, d00d"
Of course not, but that doesn't have to stop you from making the observation about which label happens to have the most quality bands/musicians...
 
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Old 2006-01-31, 12:42 AM   #12
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I'm just now getting into The Ultimates and may consider buying Volume 2 of Ultimate X-Men, but I've been a Batman and Detective Comics subscriber since 1999 or 2000, during the Aftershocks arc.

I think Marvel's strength is having much more appealing characters and mythology than the DC universe, while DC's strength is keeping characters deader longer and keeping them from having excessive personality.

Really though, the whole "my c0mMix r bet3r then j0orz" thing is a load of nihilistic sh*t that pisses me off almost as much as the videogame console fanboy garbage.
 
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Old 2006-01-31, 01:39 AM   #13
Denyer
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Quote:
Originally posted by Sir Auros
DC's strength is keeping characters deader longer and keeping them from having excessive personality.
Sterling recommendation there...
 
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Old 2006-01-31, 01:55 AM   #14
Prowl1984
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What would Deadpool do?
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Quote:
Alright, here's a list of the TPBs I own from both companies. I've lumped all the Vertigo/WildStorm/ABC titles in with DC too:
was that an excuse to show off your comicbook collection?

very impressive
 



"No point in long goodbyes, here's the door."

"Life's a trip, and then you die" -
Hunter S.Thompson
1937-2005
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Old 2006-01-31, 07:48 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally posted by Sir Auros

I think Marvel's strength is having much more appealing characters and mythology than the DC universe, while DC's strength is keeping characters deader longer and keeping them from having excessive personality.


I'd also say Marvel's great strength is the vast array of excellent and well developed villians. Every significant character has at least 1 classic villian. AT DC I can only say that outside of Batman's rouges gallery Lex Luthor and maybe Darksied have that "Oh nooooo" impact when they turn up or some significant personnel history with certain heros that characterise their relationship. Marvel have Doctor Doom, Magneto, Sabretooth, Bullesye, The Green Globin, Venom (In fact a huge chunk of Spidies villians gallery), Thanos, Galactus, Kang, Immortus, Loki, Juggernaut, Mr Sinister, Apocalypse, the Supreme intelligence, The Kingpin juts to name some off the top of my head.
 

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Old 2006-01-31, 02:39 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally posted by Hound
Of course not, but that doesn't have to stop you from making the observation about which label happens to have the most quality bands/musicians...
Though it's largely irrelevant when all the labels have roughly the same... Am I right in thinking most figures of any real repute, at least of the past 30 years, have worked for both companies at various points?
 
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Old 2006-01-31, 03:00 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally posted by Denyer
Marvel vs DC, non-superhero comics output. I don't know much about their non-cape books at all.
Then I think DC wins hands down.
Besides Vertigo, and the various Wildstorm lines DC releases CMX's manga line, Humanoids/2000 A.D./Rebellion, Mad Magazine, and the Johnny DC line (which is their "kids" line with Scooby Doo, Lonny Tunes, series based on the various DC cartoon shows).


Marvel has the Icon imprint and that's about it as far as I know.
 



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Old 2006-01-31, 03:02 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally posted by Cliffjumper
Though it's largely irrelevant when all the labels have roughly the same... Am I right in thinking most figures of any real repute, at least of the past 30 years, have worked for both companies at various points?
Pretty much. And most record labels are all owned by the same companies nowadays anyway.

Like there's no point arguing over whether Parlophone or Mute sign the best artists, as they're both part of EMI.
 

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Old 2006-01-31, 03:19 PM   #19
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MARVEL FOREVER (i read alot off there comics)

DC only good for Justice League Unlimited TV series
 
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Old 2006-01-31, 03:20 PM   #20
Jetfire
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Quote:
Originally posted by Cyberstrike nTo
Then I think DC wins hands down.
Besides Vertigo, and the various Wildstorm lines DC releases CMX's manga line, Humanoids/2000 A.D./Rebellion, Mad Magazine, and the Johnny DC line (which is their "kids" line with Scooby Doo, Lonny Tunes, series based on the various DC cartoon shows).


Marvel has the Icon imprint and that's about it as far as I know.
In the context of the first post those are not really classifyed as DC but companies who simply have DC as a parent company. DC are pretty much not responsible for any of those in a creative sense.
 

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