The Transformers Archive Skip to main content / Also skip section headers

[The Transformers Archive - an international fan site]
Please feel free to log in or register.

 
  • transformers toys
  • transformers comics
  • transformers cartoon
  • transformers live-action movies
  • transformers fandom
  • transformers forum

Go Back   TFARCHIVE > TRANSFORMERS > Transformers News & Rumours

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 2006-02-25, 02:36 PM   #21
Jaynz
Puppy Kicker
 
Jaynz's Avatar
 
Default

The club's a complete waste. I decided to give it a go (like I did with Hallit, etc...) and .. well, I've got two really crappy magazines to show for it. I cannot even log in to the web-site (nor does it seem I can even get HELP doing so), I never recieved Skyfall... I don't even WANT Landquake, etc... and, despite my initial feelings of giving the Convention a go this yea, I'm not likely to now.

The fans themselves did it better for a long, long time.
 
Jaynz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2006-02-25, 03:56 PM   #22
Cliffjumper
Cellar Door
 
Cliffjumper's Avatar
 
Thumbs up

The whole thing does stink... I'd recommend anyone not renewing, or unhappy with their membership, writes to Hasbro as well as MC as Denyer says*, which will probably have better results - Hasbro did bitchslap 3H as soon as they realised how many fans were unhappy with their handling of things.

As an aside it's amazing how many people are bitching about the publication of ****ty prototype photos that'll be on every board in the world for a couple of weeks, before everyone deletes them from their HD to make space for actual decent photographs of toys that aren't in an ugly block colour, and virtually no-one's mentioned the actual comic and profiles that can't be got by any numbnuts with access and a camera. That's the death of fandom as any sort of creative arena in a nutshell. Nobody gives a **** about any material which takes anything which takes any effort, just pictures of the latest unpainted monstrosity which will be warming toystore shelves in a couple of months. It's sad and disturbing, and the reason I for one just don't really care for the franchise or fandom any more.

EDIT: Beltatedly remembered to stick this in - sorry Denyer
 

Last edited by Cliffjumper; 2006-02-26 at 12:21 PM.
Cliffjumper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2006-02-25, 04:38 PM   #23
dedicon
Gestalt
 
dedicon's Avatar
 
israel
Default

Hah! Alvarez and company are saying that " at least we give you more than the last company did"....

So now I am so upset, I will review some actions and compare facts of latest years of OTFCC and Botcon compared to this FP crap...

Let us check facts shall we?

1) Botcon/OTFCC itself: The last OTFCC was said to be some sort of dissapointment. I recall it getting alot of bad feedback. BUT, at least the date was ok, if I remember correctly, it was in July or august, right? It was in summer and took some consideration to the fans who are at school/collage/university or any other educational system. Also, I don't recall the first Botcon FB made last year was so good. In fact, it got blasted as well!

2) Exlusives: Well, the exlusives of the middle year's were great. We finally had an Arcee, We had a nice repaint of Nightslash Cheetor and a very cool REPAINT OF A JAPANESE ONLY MOULD in the form of TIGERTRON. Yes they were expensive, but at least they were good enough to make us want one, and shell out the money.

They had the 2 deluxes with the same mould for 60$(or 50, i can't recall). But a) they were remoulded a bit to fit the charecters. B) the colors were good, and used the Dodge Viper original stripes for a good measure.c) They did have exlusives for hotel folks(Snustreaker) and another one they sold as Sideswipe. Again, don't have the price, but they were at least they came with an ok story, and were painted as G1 figures, so they were enough to pass for the fandom.


Oh, but they can change contaxt, say that they ment the year when only one H was left.Let us see what he was offering:

Megazarak: A very nice black repaint of Armada Megatron. I liked it, though sales show otherwise. Money wise he was 60$( Again, from what i recall. If someone could tell me prices i will be glad to update). With him, was the very infamus "Sentinel Maximus" story, but he was supposed to be sold at 60$ as well.

So one repainted ultra and a remoulded mega, both for 60. If you want them both it cost 120$. Now for the value of the New pack. The one with 4 repaints and 3 remoulds.1 of the moulds were used twice for this pack.

So Let us calculate: 1 ultra retails at 25$, 4 Deluxes retail at 40$(was the Buzzclaw mould a deluxe? let's calculate at it is) and 2 basics at 16$. 81$ worth of toys sold for more than 300$. I take 2 ultras for 120$ anyday.

Again, the G1 factor was used, and Ironhide, Ratchet and Chromia were reconfigured with moulds that fit them most. Also, a Japanese NAME also made his comeback, as Deathasorus(SP?) made his return. Though he had a remoulded head, he looks very much like RID Megatron in terms of paintjob...


As for the stuff you can buy in the convention? Ratchet(towline remould/Ironhide remould or repaint), Flamewar
and a third Arcee/Chromia repaint(Flamewar was a repaint too).
They were, as you might expect, way overpriced...



Comics:

So now we are at the comics section: 3H had like 3 editions: one was following BW, one was following BM and it's own writing and one for Universe( which I think Hasbro should've continued instead of just letting the line die cause of the lack of story). I read the BM one and it was quite good, and the Universe needed some work but it had some good ideas behind it, using the potential of the Universe idea.

The FP comics also devide into 2 sections: one is for the Botcon convention, named "Decent in to Evil" and is writted by one of the oldest and most appriciated fans, Ben Yee. Now granted, Ben is a great reviewer, and has contributed the fandom and sometimes writers and producers( he mentions BW producers wanted his help with the Autobots/Decepticons part in "The Agenda" episodes), he is not a comicbook writer. The story is not a good one, it feels very thrown out there. Like the idea was to throw all the exlusive charecters and not make a good storyline(even Ben admits he had a hard time to throw all the charecters in 20 something pages).

As for the comicbook/newsteller? Well, the story is OK, but the newsletter is boring, and not worth the 80$ i pay for being an international costumer. Think about it, 80$ for being a member who will not go to the conventions. I get news either 2 days before or 10 days after the rest. I get an 8 pages long of comics and 8 pages of some 3rd rated article every 2 months, and a bad qualety junk mail every month.

I also get "membership prices" for toys in the clubstore...it's actually retail prices at best and some discounts...2-3 dollars discounts. And the shipping? Well, Internationals always get screwed in that area, but this is too much...20-30$ for sending one Alternator??Say what??


And what does that leave us with? the toy exlusive..The FREE toy exlusive, after I payed 80$ for all that crap they give me a free mould. They promised only Skyfall will be a repaint(and what looks to be like a prototype above anything else) and the rest will be remoulds. Well guess what? the guys who made a 300$ pack used the wrong metal(probebly more expensive, as 300$ won't be enough to cover the price of the titanyum alloy they used for the repainted toys) they didn't have enough money to remould the "Free" mould. and we have to settle for another repaint again...with a story that will explain why they've left the Decepticon logo...another messup to coverup for?


They can claim 3H had more expirience, but that would be a false claim. FP had the GI JOE license for a while now, so they should know already how to do things right...


End of rant.
 

Last edited by dedicon; 2006-02-26 at 12:24 AM.
dedicon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2006-02-26, 10:48 AM   #24
Cyclone_X
Registered User
 
Default

Quote:
Originally posted by dedicon
We had a nice repaint of Nightslash Cheetor
as a botcon exclusive? the only repaint I know of is last year's yellow Night Slash Cheetor

http://www.tfu.info/2001/Maximal/Nig...or/cheetor.htm
http://www.tfu.info/2005/Autobot/NSCheetor/cheetor.htm
 
Cyclone_X is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2006-02-26, 11:32 AM   #25
Nevermore
Keiner versteht mich.
 
Nevermore's Avatar
 
Autobase Germany
Default

Quote:
Originally posted by Cyclone_X
as a botcon exclusive? the only repaint I know of is last year's yellow Night Slash Cheetor

http://www.tfu.info/2001/Maximal/Nig...or/cheetor.htm
http://www.tfu.info/2005/Autobot/NSCheetor/cheetor.htm
This one.
http://www.tfu.info/2002/Autobot/CatSCAN/catscan.htm
 
Nevermore is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2006-02-26, 12:24 PM   #26
Denyer
Shooty Dog Thing
 
Denyer's Avatar
 
UK
Default

Quote:
Originally posted by Cliffjumper
Nobody gives a **** about any material which takes anything which takes any effort, just pictures of the latest unpainted monstrosity
That's somewhat harsh considering we're finally getting comics from a company who aren't wankers.
 
Denyer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2006-02-26, 12:32 PM   #27
Cliffjumper
Cellar Door
 
Cliffjumper's Avatar
 
Smile

Quote:
Originally posted by Denyer
That's somewhat harsh considering we're finally getting comics from a company who aren't wankers.
I'm not talking about the companies that make it - IDW care more about the stories than apocrypha, as, to be fair, did DW before them.
 
Cliffjumper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2006-02-26, 01:24 PM   #28
Denyer
Shooty Dog Thing
 
Denyer's Avatar
 
UK
Default

Quote:
Originally posted by Cliffjumper
I'm not talking about the companies that make it
Don't think I said you were -- people (fans, producers) do give a **** about creative material, the quality of that material, and generally stuff in addition to toys and protos. C'est le point.

In particular, a fair number of people who've joined the fanclub -- whilst thinking that fiction and backstory are big part of the appeal -- feel let down by the convention and club comics.
 
Denyer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2006-02-26, 01:38 PM   #29
Cliffjumper
Cellar Door
 
Cliffjumper's Avatar
 
Smile

Some do, yeh. But the impression I get from that thread at the time of reading is that not many do either way - it doesn't seem to be what's important. It's horrible to see a random photo of a figure getting treated like a piece of art, or a fistful of TRU computer codes like a script. More people have probably seen the proto pics of whatever ugly nightmare's coming out next for Cybertron than have read The Story of Hubcap, and that's worrying. There seems to be less fiction, art and comment out there, and more random rumours of what may or may not be the colour scheme for the Azerbaijan version of Cybertron Fudgemaster.
 
Cliffjumper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2006-02-26, 02:45 PM   #30
Denyer
Shooty Dog Thing
 
Denyer's Avatar
 
UK
Smile

It's more that for years fan efforts were all there was -- there's a ton of product out there now. And plenty of people discussing comics, prospects of a movie, etc. Botcon and the club have particular attraction for toy collectors -- mostly because, let's face it, the Botcon comics have been crap and the appeal there for most is the repaints.

That the comics are even more crap now and those folks are starting to complain... well, that's worrying. At least it should be for the club.

The only reason I've read the Hubcap fic you mention is because I went and dug for stuff... TMUK don't exactly make their stuff accessible a lot of the time.
 
Denyer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2006-02-26, 02:46 PM   #31
Cliffjumper
Cellar Door
 
Cliffjumper's Avatar
 
Wink

Whereas Hasbro prototypes can be seen from space...
 
Cliffjumper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2006-02-26, 02:48 PM   #32
Denyer
Shooty Dog Thing
 
Denyer's Avatar
 
UK
Default

They're ubiquitous, yes.
 
Denyer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2006-02-26, 02:55 PM   #33
Cliffjumper
Cellar Door
 
Cliffjumper's Avatar
 
Red face

Defence and midfield? Yeh, sorry, that was unnecessarily glib.

I don't really see how a fan club like that for Transformers can ever really work... though I can't help wondering why the Collector's Club magazine et al isn't just done as a members-only section of a website. It would slice their costs, and let's be honest, it's so easy to scan something now that having the pictures avaliable online (as I say, in a members' area) wouldn't be much of a problem. They could then provide fast, accurate coverage, as well as the other content at a more sedate pace (heck, you could probably get away with putting the comic online a page at the time, as long as some sort of regular but small interval was worked out). They'd also find that more people would take problems to them instead of smearing them all over fandom.
 
Cliffjumper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2006-02-26, 04:39 PM   #34
Denyer
Shooty Dog Thing
 
Denyer's Avatar
 
UK
Default

Quote:
Originally posted by Cliffjumper
They could then provide fast, accurate coverage
Yeah, but that would involve knowing what was going on and work on their part -- they're not really going to compete on a news front apart from exclusives. And they're not going to compete on exclusives in this day and age, either, unless they manage to take down unmoderated newsgroups. I'm not saying it's not impolite for people to pass scans around, only that it's not realistic to build a profit model on people not sharing information.

The "comic-page-a-day" starting every month or quarter would probably work.

Quote:
Originally posted by Cliffjumper
They'd also find that more people would take problems to them instead of smearing them all over fandom.
Unlikely. People are taking concerns to the official club message board, but it seems threads are being locked -- possible reports of club members being banned, too (it may just be that the forums were down at the time.)
 
Denyer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2006-02-26, 04:53 PM   #35
Cliffjumper
Cellar Door
 
Cliffjumper's Avatar
 
Red face

Oh yeh.

Like I sort-of said before getting sidetracked with my poorly-researched dribble was I don't think fandom in general would be able to have something like this really work. In general TF fans are hard to please, and have very little idea of logistics and the like (if they'd remoulded the exclusive, I bet there'd be a stack of complaints somewhere about it just being a remould). You get enough squabbles over free services as it is, introduce money and any sort of power to some fans and you have a mess like this.

I think the idea of a Fan Club's been blown up by the internet (fan clubs/local meetups/penpals would be roughly what we'd be doing now if the internet didn't exist), and it was always going to be difficult to do anything within a realistic budget which would outstrip the free stuff that's out there. It seems to be the old 3H-thing of trying to get what they can from the license (or whatever the precise terms of agreement with Hasbro), without working out whether the thing can support itself, or is even wanted by more than completists.

I mean, if we were to take that there thread and extrapolate it into the club membership (say down 20%, FTSOA), things are only going to get worse and there'll be more "financial overspill" and late deliveries.

It basically sounds like the same problem as the Seibertron Store, with someone setting up something with good will and grand plans, before realising that it's actually going to be quite complex, and losing patience fast with the inevitable disappointed customers.
 
Cliffjumper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2006-02-26, 06:15 PM   #36
Denyer
Shooty Dog Thing
 
Denyer's Avatar
 
UK
Lightbulb

Haven't actually seen much goodwill from the Master Collector side of things, just a company trying to transfer a business model that gets along reasonably well with a fanbase in their thirties, forties and up. Plus refusal to give on scheduling or selling people the items they want.

They won't get good results out of the convention unless they hold it in convention season -- a large chunk of the fandom either has young kids they can't uproot for a day hundreds of miles away, are in education or work in education. Older fans can leave teenage kids at home, have more disposable income, can book the time for specific things, etc.

Selling the exclusives as a set has resulted in a great deal of overstock by the sound of it -- whereas if they split those and sold them through the club (not even to the general public) they'd probably clear most if not all.

It's actually the comparatively reasonable fans bitching for once.
 
Denyer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2006-02-26, 08:56 PM   #37
Nevermore
Keiner versteht mich.
 
Nevermore's Avatar
 
Autobase Germany
Default

Savage said he wouldn't discount the BotCon set because that would "hurt its aftermarket value".
 
Nevermore is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2006-02-26, 10:10 PM   #38
Denyer
Shooty Dog Thing
 
Denyer's Avatar
 
UK
Lightbulb

Which is a bollocks argument in itself. Fans don't buy to sell. Scalpers buy to sell. And that's money that the fan club doesn't see any extra profit from.
 
Denyer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2006-02-28, 05:31 AM   #39
Jaynz
Puppy Kicker
 
Jaynz's Avatar
 
Default

I think the problem with the fan-fic is that there's so little out right now to draw good fiction from. The G1 stories are seriously played out (which is why they're getting 'reset' all the time)... the Beast Generation played out their arcs, leaving not a WHOLE lot of room for new material unless you really... really screw with things.

The Armada-verse is just so painfulyl god-awful in terms of fiction that it's damn hard to write a mature action-adventure-based set of fiction on it. Believe me, it's damn hard.. the comics couldn't do it without grabbing G1 elements again.

The other aspect is that we've got a fandom that really hates itself, and a lot of the old-guard, capable fan-fiction writers have moved on already. I'm reworking a lot of my old fan-fiction to a completely new series of stories that aren't specifically Transformers, etc...

Leaving... what, for the fan club? A hurried, non-sensical comic? Bad character descriptions? What do they work with, really?

I mean, a lot of people who really really hate me also admit they love my writing, but how many people would really want to see a bit of fiction or writing from me in the official club.

Or Raksha, to go to the extreme, even though she IS a talented writer?

Would Trixter and Walky get a draw in, or would those names ALSO alienate some of the fans? (It would, we've already been down this road).

Of course, we're talking about trying to appeal to a good base of fans, and I'm saying how difficult it is. However, the approach of 'we don't give a rat's ass about you Transformers nerds' is.. well... not exactly what I would try, either.
 
Jaynz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2006-02-28, 04:47 PM   #40
Nevermore
Keiner versteht mich.
 
Nevermore's Avatar
 
Autobase Germany
Default

Blackrock just highlighted his old old open letter to Fun Productions and Brian Savage's responses again. Is it just me, or is Savage completely dodging every single concern brought up?
 
Nevermore is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 10:20 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
 
 
[the-hub.co.uk]
[transfans.co.uk]
[oneshallstand]
[unicron.com]
[counter-x.net]
[ntfa.net]
[allspark.com]
[transformertoys.co.uk]
[tfu.info]
[botchthecrab.com]
[obscure_tf]
[tfradio.net]
 

[TFArchive button]
Link graphics...

BOOKMARK US
Or in FF, hit Ctrl+D.