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Old 2006-02-28, 05:12 PM   #41
Jaynz
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Originally posted by Nevermore
Blackrock just highlighted his old old open letter to Fun Productions and Brian Savage's responses again. Is it just me, or is Savage completely dodging every single concern brought up?
Savage (wait, is THAT the Savage mentioned in the other thread?) ... anyway, Savage always struck me as outright hostile to the TF fandom, but wanted to expand his 'market' from just GI Joe.

Gotta be honest, I don't think that the fandom, as nasty as it currently is (and has been for a bit) could support a 'professional' convention and fan-club even IF Savage wasn't being such a prat.
 
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Old 2006-02-28, 05:23 PM   #42
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When people as reasonable and steadfastly polite as Blackrock start getting pissy, you know there are problems.

This is also telling:

http://www.tfw2005.com/boards/showth...8&page=4&pp=10

"If they're using USPS, they've likely chosen the worst possible option, "Economy" Surface Parcel Post -- for anything under 5 lb., they charge a flat $24.25."

It seems that MC don't understand international postage at all.

[edit]
Quote:
Pete said on these very boards that shipping Skyfall to the UK cost the fan club $16. I've never got mine to check that, but I'll give them the benefit of the doubt since I weighted a basic and rang the USPO and they said that's about right by air mail. They also said however, that anyone who shipped it by airmail was crazy, because airmail isn't intended for items that size - you're supposed to use Global Priority Mail, which is half the cost at $8, more reliable (well, at least better insured) and actually FASTER than air mail.
[/edit]

And I'm a little disappointed that a thread (elsewhere) would be locked principally for reiterating points -- provided it's not an insult match, not letting complaints fall out of public discussion is probably the only way they're likely to be addressed.

Quote:
how many people would really want to see a bit of fiction or writing from me
There's always a measure of pettiness, but I think more people care about quality by this point in time than care about who wrote what. Case in point -- Furman on Beast Wars is being well-received.
 
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Old 2006-02-28, 05:33 PM   #43
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Exactly... I find BW a terrific read, even though I have a fairly low opinion of Furman as a person (erm, in regards to what he chooses to project... I'm sure he's basically a sound chap, but in interviews and the like the fact he's been making love with his ego for the past decade or so tends to come through a bit too much). On the other hand Bob is a totally affable chap (again from interviews), and "Rock 'n' Roll Out" is still piss-poor. It'd basically fit in nicely with my view of Furman if The Gathering was dreadful, but so far it's not been.

As Denyer (Denyer, can you please start saying "I'm Denyer" all the time, like Batman in Shortpacked! please?) said, I doubt most people are bloodyminded enough to care who writes stuff as long as it's good (if they were, well, I doubt the mentally disturbed portion of the fan club subscribers would make a large dent in membership), but then I fail to see where this suddenly turned into a name-dropping "who should write fanfic for the fanclub" thing... I mean, I mentioned fanfic, but only as an example of how stuff that takes proper thought has taken a massive backseat on the majority of Transformers sites.
 
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Old 2006-02-28, 06:04 PM   #44
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but then I fail to see where this suddenly turned into a name-dropping "who should write fanfic for the fanclub" thing... I mean, I mentioned fanfic, but only as an example of how stuff that takes proper thought has taken a massive backseat on the majority of Transformers sites. [/B]
I didn't mean to name-drop and bash. I just meant that it's getting pretty hard to push a fan-club work when there really is that much bitterness and divisiveness out there. Furman is recognized as 'above the fandom', which works for him.. but for a fan-driven work, the cliques are everything.
 
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Old 2006-02-28, 06:06 PM   #45
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As far as the fiction is concerned, how much do they churn out and how often is it produced?

Given that a professional comic is about $3 (at least the last time I bought one, which was about two years ago), I'd say that they'd have to churn out a lot of material to make me feel as if they had the $40 covered, especially with the "exclusive" that was a repaint of a $5 figure, that had just arrived at my local stores a few weeks prior.

Certainly, I wouldn't expect 12-13 issues that were 20 pages each, since they're a low-production run, but if they didn't provide at least 140-150 pages of fiction, then I'd feel as if I were being millked.

Of course, I'd read it if I got it, but I wouldn't be too fussed if they were to chop off $30, and just give me the toy, as that's what I'd be in it for.
 
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Old 2006-02-28, 06:09 PM   #46
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Given that a professional comic is about $3 (at least the last time I bought one, which was about two years ago), I'd say that they'd have to churn out a lot of material to make me feel as if they had the $40 covered, especially with the "exclusive" that was a repaint of a $5 figure, that had just arrived at my local stores a few weeks prior.
Well, the WRITING could be free, if they would just be more approachable fans. I would write it just to have a publishing credit, and do it as a 'fun' project. I know quite a few other talented fans who feel the same way.

Or, hell, just free membership or something...
 
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Old 2006-02-28, 07:05 PM   #47
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Quote:
Originally posted by Cliffjumper
I'm sure he's basically a sound chap
I do honestly think it's enthusiasm rather than considering himself the best thing since sliced bread.
Quote:
Originally posted by TFVanguard
Furman is recognized as 'above the fandom',
Sort of. He's written more fanfic than the average person in the rest of the fandom, long before any of the revival of the past few years.

I get what you mean -- he's not a particularly active member of forums, etc.
 
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Old 2006-02-28, 07:07 PM   #48
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That could work. I'd definitely sign up for a free fanclub, even if they didn't give me anything. I just can't see paying $40 for what amounts to straw.
 
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Old 2006-02-28, 07:11 PM   #49
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Originally posted by TFVanguard
Furman is recognized as 'above the fandom', which works for him..
Not really. I'd bet the number of people who dislike Furman for his pretentious and melodramatic side, and downright dislike what he did with the mythos vastly outnumber the people who'd burn their fan club subscription because someone they could well by now neither know nor care about happens to have some attachment to the thing - all of which is staggeringly irrelevant when it seems that people are largely interested in the exclusive figs and the toy magazines.

How many of you can name the writer of the fan club comics without going to look it up?
 
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Old 2006-02-28, 07:18 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally posted by Cliffjumper
How many of you can name the writer of the fan club comics without going to look it up?
Run Forest, run! They'll never believe your surname is a coincidence!

Ahem.
 
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Old 2006-02-28, 07:20 PM   #51
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It's Furman, isn't it?
 
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Old 2006-02-28, 07:22 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally posted by Denyer
[B]I do honestly think it's enthusiasm rather than considering himself the best thing since sliced bread.Sort of.
Well, you have to remember what the sample size we're dealing with here. How many official Transformers writers have there really been? How many were responsible for a title for months at a stretch? How many consistantly put out decent (if not stellar) work?

Simon Furman. That's it.

I do think that he looks down on the American comic-book industry, but not without some good reason. I have a hard time taking seriously the complaints of artists and writers that can't manage to be on time doing 16 pages of art a month, while demanding six-digit salaries. Since Furman was a work-horse, I can easily see him not being too thrilled (or even being arrogant about how HE works) when compared to the 'industry' around him.

Quote:
He's written more fanfic than the average person in the rest of the fandom, long before any of the revival of the past few years.
Someone told me that I was the only one to beat him, in terms of raw fic.. but, his sheer volume of work impresses me.

Quote:
I get what you mean -- he's not a particularly active member of forums, etc.
Right. He's not part of a clique, not looking to jockey positions in web-sites, not 'close personal friends' with certain fans, not an 'inside source', etc.

He's amiable to the fandom, but not part of it. That's a lesson I probably should have learned myself back in the day...
 
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Old 2006-02-28, 07:28 PM   #53
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Not really. I'd bet the number of people who dislike Furman for his pretentious and melodramatic side...
Maybe today, it's hard to say. I do think that Furman's been overplayed, but - like I said - he's the only really well established official Transformers writer out there.

A good comic, though, would trump the writer's name recognition any time though. Nothing's going to save the current fan comic, though - it's too disjointed, too random, and too infrequent for the page count.

And, as for someone who has YET to get an exclusive toy and can't remotely justify the insane cost of BotCon, my two comics are all I GOT for my $40.

Granted, if I were to get Skyfall and Landquake tommorow, they would be free for whoever wants them (with shipping). I've got no interest AT ALL in these yokels.

Quote:
How many of you can name the writer of the fan club comics without going to look it up? [/B]
Forest Lee, wasn't it (at least the previous issue)? Granted, I've got no idea who that is, but their work in the comic has been god-awful thus far.

Edit - Quote tags
 
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Old 2006-02-28, 07:34 PM   #54
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Quote:
Originally posted by TFVanguard
Maybe today, it's hard to say. I do think that Furman's been overplayed, but - like I said - he's the only really well established official Transformers writer out there.
Well, the first part of that sentence is rendered null and void, as it was, the last time I checked, "today", and will continue to be for the time being. We haven't got the past coming up for a while.

The basic point is Furman's name would attract both more bouqettes and brickbats than any fan "name" you'd care to mention. Actually, that's not the basic point, it was the minor segue I tried to make half a page ago. Cliques are for bitchy little girls who let things like that. This is a tiny fraction of fandom which doesn't affect anything, in the same way nobody to do with Doctor Who ever listens to anyone who bangs on about Olympiads.
 
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Old 2006-02-28, 07:38 PM   #55
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Quote:
Originally posted by TFVanguard
How many consistantly put out decent (if not stellar) work?

Simon Furman. That's it.
Not only did Budiansky come up with most of the foundation work, he got straight down to concepts such as the matrix. In the last few years, people have actually started to mature to the stage where they recognise his contribution before creative burnout. It doesn't hurt that more information is available about who did what.

Other official TF writers:

John Grant (let's see if any of the US members recognise him)
Mike Collins
James Hill (notably for the basis of how the Decepticons originated)
Ralph Macchio
Steve Parkhouse
Jim Salicrup
Jamie Delano

That's just early era as well. Furman is simply well-known. 'Crisis of Command' and 'State Games' in particular are both very fondly regarded by most who've had opportunity to observe.

American fans basically got Budiansky and Furman, and didn't notice the initial writers on the comics.

Quote:
Originally posted by TFVanguard
He's amiable to the fandom, but not part of it.
He's far more a part of the fandom than many who claim to be.
 
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Old 2006-02-28, 07:41 PM   #56
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Well, it's tough to argue about what people want most out of the club. But, honestly, in two years, will people give a crap about Skyfall and Landquake? Most fans, from what I've seen, don't give a crap now.

But a fiction collection, well done, might be the sort of things that long-term fan interests would go for - could be easily and cheaply republished and repackaged, sampled on the web-site, etc.

Obscure-character, or non-character, exclusives don't really keep the interest once the next new 'exclusive' comes along. We saw that with OTFCC already (the difference in interest between Tigatron and Cat Scan is staggering).
 
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Old 2006-02-28, 07:45 PM   #57
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Quote:
Originally posted by Denyer
[B]Not only did Budiansky come up with most of the foundation work, he got straight down to concepts such as the matrix.
I'm not saying that they didn't contribute at all. Remember the criteria that I used. As early as issue #9, Budiansky was sorely tapped for ideas and was dong a LOT of bad work. (He had a brief improved stint.. and then utter crap.)

Most of the other authors were only around briefly, even in the UK. This isnt' a comment on their work, just on their 'sellability' as a writer. You have to be very die-hard to know some of the other names out there.

Quote:
He's far more a part of the fandom than many who claim to be.
I won't argue that there's quite a few 'fans' that haven't talked about Transformers at all in ages, and indeed seem more interested in the 'fan cliques' than what they're fans of, but that's not really an issue for this thread.

I just meant that Furman wasn't mired in the fandom muck that most of the rest of us are or have been.
 
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Old 2006-02-28, 07:53 PM   #58
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Quote:
Originally posted by TFVanguard
a fiction collection, well done, might be the sort of things that long-term fan interests would go for - could be easily and cheaply republished and repackaged, sampled on the web-site, etc.
Well, apart from another company holding the comics license. Though I'd say that the number of people who view the fandom principally as a toy-collecting exercise far outweighs the number of people interested in comics, prose, script-format writing, etc. just as the number of people who'll passively sit down in front of a cartoon is greater than the number of people who can or will read.

I would guess that MC only have rights to publish something included as part of another publication or for purposes of conventions.
 
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Old 2006-02-28, 08:03 PM   #59
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Well, apart from another company holding the comics license
Okay, do it through them (it's called 'crossell', people!). There's other ways to pull this off, but the fan club really seems dis-interested in doing ANYTHING with other aspects of the fandom, official or not.

Quote:
Though I'd say that the number of people who view the fandom principally as a toy-collecting exercise far outweighs the number of people interested in comics, prose, script-format writing, etc.
You're right there, of course, but I think a lot of people have forgotten the lessons of the 1980s. The fiction is what moves the toys. Kids don't want toys of characters that suck, and collectors will only get them to be completist.

In that regard, the club can do a lot better than they are now. If Landquake is so important, for instance, where's the webpage dedicated to him as a character, etc? Where's the Deathsaurus web page? Etc...

There's plenty of places to look for for ideas. See how well Takara's site does for new toy-characters and all that. The fan-club's stuff , by comparison, is a joke.

Edit - Confused by tags!
 
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Old 2006-02-28, 08:07 PM   #60
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Quote:
Originally posted by TFVanguard
Most of the other authors were only around briefly, even in the UK. [...] You have to be very die-hard to know some of the other names out there.
Such as John Grant, writing fiction for Transformers until 1988. The reason I know this is because I still have the books in question, it's not that I bothered to track them down long after the fact or read around on the subject.

Quote:
Originally posted by TFVanguard
Remember the criteria that I used.
Which were to some degree circular and constructed to output Furman's name... however, you started off with "the only really well established official Transformers writer out there" -- which doesn't hold up well to other writers being involved for a period of several years.

It's like with Cullen and Welker. The average fan couldn't give you names, but remembers the voices -- hence the non-Furman UK stories that are highly regarded. Where writers have less exposure, a typical marketing slant is to mention other work they've done.

There's interest in Budiansky getting a crack at a modern TF story with IDW.

edit:
Quote:
The fiction is what moves the toys.
To kids and a fair number of adult collectors, yes. This is one area in which the fan club could easily win itself some good PR. Ditto for producing profiles to go with any store exclusives that eventually materialise.
 
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