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Old 2006-03-18, 11:04 PM   #21
Denyer
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Quote:
Originally posted by Cliffjumper
This is why companies chase the license, rather than Hasbro going from company to company with a begging bowl.).....
Quote:
Originally posted by FDF
Naivite. Licensing is HUGE to a company's bottom line. It's as simple as that. Those that think otherwise, have never had a marketing class. "No reason?" It's call MONEY. That's the ONLY reason. Companies are NOT altruistic. In case you haven't figured it out, the CARTOON exists to PROMOTE THE TOYS.
IDW comics are not promoting toys; the cost of the license itself (and any associated percentage) represents what Hasbro get out of the comics. Hasbro have no incentive to push disposable income towards another company from whom they see a smaller percentage on the dollar.

Quote:
Originally posted by Angelophile
25% (ish) of the readership
Except neither figure represents readership. These are pre-orders by stores, made before either #1 or #2 was published.

Brief summary by a first-time creator: http://jenniebreeden.livejournal.com/321.html

(The comic's also worth checking out. But, like it suggests, pre-orders for issues 4 and 5 are going in and I only just got #1 through the mail. IDW won't be that staggered, but there'll still be a two-issue lag. Stores decided on big orders of #1 based on #0 sales or whatever, and didn't decide on as big orders for #2. With a book that's in any way popular, this tends to create a situation where buyers are forced to wait for trades because issues after #1 aren't easily available.)
 
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Old 2006-03-19, 01:10 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally posted by Denyer
Except neither figure represents readership. These are pre-orders by stores, made before either #1 or #2 was published.
Yeah, but come on. How often have we seen sales actually go up from these preorder numbers later on? Despite the multiple covers strategy, sales have not been anywhere near stellar.

If you want a good estimate of how things are going, you only have as far to look as the comic racks in the comic stores. I would have no problem walking into my local comic shop and still be able to buy #1. That runs counter to the hope that these preorder figures are not representative of how things are really going.
 
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Old 2006-03-19, 01:38 AM   #23
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Originally posted by Commander Shockwav
Yeah, but come on. How often have we seen sales actually go up from these preorder numbers later on?
Actually, preorder sales rarely represent the actual sales. Stores order based on how well they think it's going to sell, so, being as retailers might be a little gunshy following the Dreamwave disaster, they may well have ordered fairly conservatively.

I know the store I work at has run through several reorders of #1 already, and it's looking to be about the same for #2. The same holds true for our two sister stores.

Quote:
If you want a good estimate of how things are going, you only have as far to look as the comic racks in the comic stores.
Depends on how aggressively a store tends to order.

For example, the shop I work at was once 1,000,000 Comix. The former owner would over-order just about every book on the shelves no matter how well it sold (thus explaining why we're now stuck with thirty copies of Spawn #132).

My boss, who bought the store a couple of years ago, keeps meticulous records regarding weekly sales (in fact, that's pretty much all I do on Mondays), using said figures to order from month to month. If sales have slumped in the past, he orders very conservatively. Pretty much the only books he tends to order massive quantities of are the books he knows are going to sell (Infinite Crisis, New Avengers, etc.).

Bringing this back around to something resembling a point, one store's selection (or even the buying habits of one city) is hardly representative of the entire industry.
 

Last edited by Dead Man Wade; 2006-03-19 at 01:40 AM.
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Old 2006-03-19, 01:47 AM   #24
Ford DeceptiFocus
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Quote:
Originally posted by Denyer
IDW comics are not promoting toys; the cost of the license itself (and any associated percentage) represents what Hasbro get out of the comics. Hasbro have no incentive to push disposable income towards another company from whom they see a smaller percentage on the dollar.
Yes and no. I can see your point if the comic is not selling well. And personally, I think it's too early to say if it is or not. BUT if the comic DOES end up selling well over the longer term, it IS in their interest to promote the comic, as it keep brand awareness of the toy at higher levels. Hasbro could simply view the comic as another piece of advertising for the toys. Also, how much money would it take to add a small graphic with a few words to Transformers.com advertising the comic? Not much.

But I do agree with you--Hasbro would not be doing it for altruistic reasons.

(On a completely unrelated matter--sorry--I notice that under my name is said "protoform" then "micromaster" and now "seeker" What does that mean in relation to my name and this website? Is that like my rank on the site? Just curious.
 

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Old 2006-03-19, 02:04 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally posted by Ford DeceptiFocus
But you're not going to convince me that 10-12 year olds are watching Blue's Clue's or Dora the Explorer on Nick Jr.
I didn't say that, I said that five was usually when they stop watching Nick-jr. I know they watch cartoons earlier than five.

And yes, that is your rank under your name. After 1000 posts and one year, you can make your own rank.
 


Last edited by tahukanuva; 2006-03-19 at 02:06 AM.
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Old 2006-03-19, 03:45 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally posted by Commander Shockwav
I would have no problem walking into my local comic shop and still be able to buy #1.
And when #4 or #5 is out, would you be able to do the same with issues #2 and #3? Copies of #1 will likely still be around, but the store can't sell issues it doesn't have in stock.

All I'm saying is that the quoted figures mean nothing more nor less than the number of pre-orders. Stores ordered their copies of #1 and #2 ahead of on the same sales data -- either #0 or their track record in selling TF comics.

Aggregate sales data later in the year will be far more meaningful, if available.

Quote:
Originally posted by Ford DeceptiFocus
if the comic DOES end up selling well over the longer term, it IS in their interest to promote the comic, as it keep brand awareness of the toy at higher levels.
The most support you can expect from Hasbro is commissions for pack-in toy comics, (possibly paid) adverts for toys in the back of regular issues, and a little blurb in their investor literature about Transformers being a very diverse property.

That's based on their past actions, rather than speculation. It's conceivable they might bother to link stuff related to their original series characters when the Classics line shows up, although a couple of years of Alternators also featuring those characters hasn't produced that.

I wouldn't be surprised if there's a standard policy for web design staff at Hasbro's end to avoid linking external sites wherever possible.

Just as an idea of where their priorities are with the brand:
http://www.hasbro.com/transformers/d...m?page=history

Quote:
Originally posted by fort_max
I know the store I work at has run through several reorders of #1 already, and it's looking to be about the same for #2. The same holds true for our two sister stores.
Reorders through Diamond? What would be the cut-off dates for these?
 
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Old 2006-03-19, 04:15 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally posted by Denyer
Reorders through Diamond? What would be the cut-off dates for these?
The only reorders that have cutoff dates are advance reorders. After that, you can order it up until the day they run out.
 
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Old 2006-03-19, 05:19 AM   #28
Ford DeceptiFocus
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Quote:
Originally posted by Denyer


Just as an idea of where their priorities are with the brand:
http://www.hasbro.com/transformers/d...m?page=history
Wow. Just Wow. As always Denyer, you are the voice of reason. Wow. That was just so telling. *Sigh*
 

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Old 2006-03-19, 08:48 AM   #29
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Tissue for that nose?
 
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Old 2006-03-19, 06:02 PM   #30
Ford DeceptiFocus
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Originally posted by Cliffjumper
Tissue for that nose?
I have a big nose....I'm going to need more than one.
 

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Old 2006-03-19, 06:08 PM   #31
Cliffjumper
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I'm sure you can get a team to help you.
 
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Old 2006-03-19, 06:14 PM   #32
Ford DeceptiFocus
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Originally posted by Cliffjumper
I'm sure you can get a team to help you.
Well here's hoping. haha
 

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Old 2006-03-20, 07:59 PM   #33
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Official February numbers:

53 TRANSFORMERS INFILTRATION #2 35,828 copies
58 TRANSFORMERS BEAST WARS #1 34,047 copies


http://www.icv2.com/articles/news/8384.html

Looks like I underestimated by about 3,000 copies for Infiltration and 2,000 copies for Beast Wars.

I like underestimating more than overestimating.


 

Last edited by Commander Shockwav; 2006-03-20 at 10:36 PM.
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Old 2006-03-20, 08:18 PM   #34
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That's good news!
 

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Old 2006-03-20, 08:24 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally posted by Ford DeceptiFocus
That's good news!
Those sales are cursed.
 


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Old 2006-03-20, 08:53 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally posted by Commander Shockwav
53 TRANSFORMERS INFILTRATION #2 35,828 copies
58 TRANSFORMERS BEAST WARS #1 34,047 copies
Looks like the previews for BW have been paying off...
 
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Old 2006-03-20, 09:42 PM   #37
Cliffjumper
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Though it may have the same drop waiting for it come #2...

Still, hanging in there. I reckon top75 minimum is where the thing wants to stay. I just hope the Stormbringer thing doesn't throw too many readers off the scent.
 
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Old 2006-03-20, 10:03 PM   #38
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If Beast Wars is included in the cost of the Transformers license, then one could say that they are raking in dough from 70,000 copies sold for the Transformers. That's quite a bit in todays market.

Worth the investment? I guess that would depend on how much the license actually costs IDW. At 70,000 copies sold at $3.00 a pop, that's a gross sales of around $210,000.

Now I don't know what this might indicate, but DW owed Hasbro for royalty costs in the amount of $494,442.00 when they went bankrupt. Was this for one year? Many years? Did Hasbro charge the same amount to IDW? Was this a percentage of revenues? Again, these figures may mean nothing, but its something to think about.
 
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Old 2006-03-20, 10:11 PM   #39
Denyer
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Quote:
Originally posted by Commander Shockwav
DW owed Hasbro for royalty costs in the amount of $494,442.00 when they went bankrupt. Was this for one year?
Doubt it, given the sums withheld from everyone else, but that's pure spec. DW were active for what, three years in total? I'd say that's for a bit over a year. It wouldn't be for three years unless Hasbro had a very trusting initial contract drawn up.

Hmm... would anyone more up on publishing costs care to put forward a projection for the net income from a $3 comic sale?
 
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Old 2006-03-20, 10:31 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally posted by Denyer

Hmm... would anyone more up on publishing costs care to put forward a projection for the net income from a $3 comic sale?
I would imagine that would depend on overhead? I mean, IDW brought on board Simon, Don, E. J., Raiz, Guido, Josh, etc., so staffing costs certainly would have gone up for IDW.

Let's say that royalty cost for IDW are the same as they were for Hasbro. And let's give IDW a worst case scenario where the $494,000 is for one year (doubt it, but just for the sake of argument).

So per month, the license would cost roughly $41,000 (worst case scenario). Subtract this from the $210,000, and we are left with $169,000 with which to cover the other montly overhead costs. Given Simons passion for Transformers, I doubt he played hardball and he likley accepted an average salary. Hell, he'd probably do it for free. Others share that love, and likely they too accepted average salary for colorist, penciller, etc. I would guess that $169,000 would cover monthly staffing cost and leave plenty for publishing costs.

Even in a worst case scenario situation with the TF license costing this much, if sales stay as they are, things should be pretty positive for us.

Dare I make a suggestion to IDW that might get me raked over the coals. How about a return to DW strategy of other TF titles? Licensure costs would remain the same, and if IDW were clever in their contracts with their staff, regardless of the number of titles produced, salaries should stay the same.

In other words, with new titles that might appeal to more TF fans, the only costs that would increase would be publishing costs (ink, colors, paper, etc), and not licensure and staff costs.

Am I right in this Stu, or have I missed the boat?
 
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