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Old 2005-12-27, 03:02 AM   #21
Heinrad
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Waitasec...... How could the Time Lords enter into a treaty with anybody over time travel? Especially as they used the Doctor himself(at least once) to ensure that another race wouldn't get time travel?

Simply send an agent back to the appropriate point and have them make sure the "People" go down a different scientific path.

Then again, having the "People" having been directly affected by the Time-Lord influenced accelleration of the Minyans of Minyos(kicked us out, split the atom, invented the toothbrush, and split the planet), I guess I could see were a treaty could come in.

"People" representative: -pointing angrily at the chunk of Minyos which is sticking out of the second largest continent of it's planet- "And how do you propose to FIX this?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?"

Time Lord representative: "We've just established this non-interference policy, sadly. Though, if it makes you feel any better, it's a direct result of..... er...... that."

"People" rep: "Oh, well, thank you very much. The only god thing to come out of all of this is that my mother in law is somewhere under all of that...... planet!"

Time Lord rep: "See? And you thought it was a bad thing to have this happen......"

********************

But having watched the whole thing now, I have to say, it was....... Fantastic.

And my K-9 is in marginally better shape than Sarah's. His body's intact, but his electronics are gone.....
 
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Old 2005-12-27, 05:21 PM   #22
Bouncelot
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Pretty good story, David Tennant was brilliant. Lots of promise for Series 2, though the Christmas elements (especially the Santas and the Tree) were utterly superfluous.

Anyway, a couple of points raised upthread:

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Lord Zarak
And, on a similar note, are the books any good? Not ones based on any already aired episodes, but original stories?
With the ninth Doctor ones, Only Human and {i]The Stealers of Dreams[/i] are good, the rest are poor. With all the 250+ other ones that have been published, some are good, some bad. Lawrence Miles, Lance Parkin, Paul Cornell, Kate Orman (with or without Jonathan Blum) are some of the better writers. Barry Letts, Terrance Dicks, and Gary Russell are some of the worse ones.

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For instance, are The People a future form of humanity?
Definitely not. They are from another galaxy, and part of the Time Lords' reason for the treaty is to keep them away from Earth.

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Jetfire 2.1
Besides I calculate the "present day" in the series is currently end of 2007 0r 2008. It started out in 2005 (and that looked like winter to me so credably it could be late 2005) Before Rose's first return a year had passed making it 2006 at least. More time probably passed when she got to cardiff (making that likely set in 2007) and bad wolf was yet more months in the future. As this was placed at least the next christmas on from the last series it would be Crimbo 2007/2008 so Bush would be pretty much gone or close to the end of his dictatorship.
Rose's return in Aliens of London/World War Three was explicitly dated to March 2006 (the date on the posters and the repeated 12 months figure. Her trip to Cardiff was six months later according to the onscreen caption, Bad Wolf/Parting of the Ways doesn't seem that much later, so the present day of The Christmas Invasion is probably Christmas 2006. And, incidentally, according to the novels, Bush never got to be US President.

As for Heinrad's comments about how the Time Lords shouldn't have needed to make a treaty with the People, you really should read The Also People - the book that introduced them - before making pronouncements about how likely the treaty would or wouldn't be.
 
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Old 2005-12-27, 05:39 PM   #23
Halfshell
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Originally posted by Cliffjumper
the destruction of Gallifrey has all sorts of possibilities.
He could have used up more than one life in that whole shindig, y'never know... anything RTD wants could be retconned from that Plot Device.

And probably will.

What was the name of the invading race in The Xmas Invasion? I won't rest until I work out where I recognise (or think I recognise) it from, but my efforts are hindered by the fact that I've forgotten and it isn't in IMDb's entry for the ep...
 


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Old 2005-12-27, 05:49 PM   #24
Denyer
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Sycorax, I think.
 
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Old 2005-12-28, 01:31 PM   #25
Lord Zarak
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Sorry, my bad, didnt make meself quite as clear as I should have. I meant books about previous incarnations of the doctor.
 

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Old 2005-12-28, 02:39 PM   #26
Denyer
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With so many different writers, settings and characters (the Doctor varying lots from incarnation to incarnation) they're a mixed bunch. I read a bunch of the Target novelisations as a kid—I think that's what they were, though they were in hardback and I've forgotten more than I remember—many of which were rather basic. Other than Target you've got the Virgin and BBC books, which again are a mixed bag.

Best to read some reviews.

http://www.pagefillers.com/dwrg/frames.htm
http://www.gallifreyone.com/guides-books.php
http://www.drwhoguide.com/books.htm

I don't have much interest in the second, third, fourth and fifth regens, personally.
 
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Old 2005-12-28, 03:23 PM   #27
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Terrance is a legend. You can read Blood Harvest in about nine minutes, and it ignores Trial of a Timelord. Yeh, The Eight Doctors sucked like Jenna on doubletime, but then so did the first dozen Eighth Doctor books. In summation, hey, he could be John "No, not that one, the one who must have compromising pictures of commissioning editors or something" Peel or David A. McIntee (I will get past page 30 of First Frontier one day. Though possibly with the aid of drugs) or Craig Hinton.

Terrance's stuff is great for a quick blast, especially the novelisations. Sure, Cornell and Lance Parkin (amongst others) have moved the goalposts, but I think it's great that Terrance hasn't attempted to compete. I used to love it whenever one of his NAs used to come out, because it'd mean one book without superflous shagging (if this sounds bad, the problem with shagging scenes in Who books is you can always see the writer beating off as he enacts his old wank fantasy on Peri).

Oh, and Steve Lyons is actually God.



****, I've just remembered I have a huge stack of Beeb books to actually read.

LZ, the Works might still have some of the Beeb range reduced
 
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Old 2005-12-28, 04:31 PM   #28
Lord Zarak
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Thankee very much
 

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Old 2005-12-28, 06:04 PM   #29
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Originally posted by Cliffjumper
Terrance is a legend. You can read Blood Harvest in about nine minutes, and it ignores Trial of a Timelord.
Yeah, Blood Harvest is actually quite good. Except for the complete lack of a decent ending. All his other "original" Doctor Who books are quite poor, though. His most recent one, World Game, consisted of about 90% material borrowed from his previous attempts together with a few bits trying to link them together.

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Yeh, The Eight Doctors sucked like Jenna on doubletime, but then so did the first dozen Eighth Doctor books.
[angry voice]Are you saying that Vampire Science and Alien Bodies sucked?[/angry voice]

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In summation, hey, he could be John "No, not that one, the one who must have compromising pictures of commissioning editors or something" Peel or David A. McIntee (I will get past page 30 of First Frontier one day. Though possibly with the aid of drugs) or Craig Hinton.
Hey! I like both McIntee's and Hinton's books. Millennial Rites, in particular, is a serious classic.

Hm. No mention of the stuff on my site. I'll have to rectify that.
http://www.whoniverse.org/discontinuity/
http://www.whoniverse.org/reviews/
 

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Old 2005-12-28, 06:14 PM   #30
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Thing is, first Hinton I ever read was GodEngine, so he's up against it. Any book might be alright, but he's still the guy who wrote GodCockingEngine.

Hmm, with Tel, I found most of his Virgin output good to great... Shakedown's marvellous, and Exodus convinced me to keep reading the whole damn series. To be honest, 8 Doctors was the last one I read... I'm sorry to say I really did find the start of the 8th Doctor range mind-numbingly poor, though the corporation's then-policy of getting as much out of Who for as little as possible probably made me more jaded than usual (especially when they published The Worst Book Of All Time, aka The Book of Lists).
 
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Old 2005-12-28, 06:46 PM   #31
Denyer
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Quote:
Originally posted by Bouncelot
Hm. No mention of the stuff on my site.
You might want to integrate the reviews into the guide, as simply looking at the reviews section evidences a very short list of content... also, something marked 'discontinuity' isn't going to be the first thing many people click for book summaries...

Yeah, "Millennial Rites" was good for a couple of reads.
 
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Old 2005-12-28, 08:34 PM   #32
Bouncelot
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Quote:
Originally posted by Cliffjumper
Thing is, first Hinton I ever read was GodEngine, so he's up against it. Any book might be alright, but he's still the guy who wrote GodCockingEngine.
Is it any consolation that he dislikes Godengine as well? IMO it's his only subpar book.

Quote:
Hmm, with Tel, I found most of his Virgin output good to great... Shakedown's marvellous, and Exodus convinced me to keep reading the whole damn series. To be honest, 8 Doctors was the last one I read... I'm sorry to say I really did find the start of the 8th Doctor range mind-numbingly poor, though the corporation's then-policy of getting as much out of Who for as little as possible probably made me more jaded than usual (especially when they published The Worst Book Of All Time, aka The Book of Lists).
Yeah, Tel was better in the Virgin days. He doesn't get any better after 8Docs. By Warmonger his writing is barely good enough to qualify as appallingly bad fanfic.

Quote:
[i/originally posted by Denyer[/i]
You might want to integrate the reviews into the guide, as simply looking at the reviews section evidences a very short list of content... also, something marked 'discontinuity' isn't going to be the first thing many people click for book summaries...
Yeah, I guess I should, though the discontinuity guides are primarily continuity guides (with reviews thrown in for good measure), rather than reviews per se.
*adds to long list of things to do to site*

Incidentally, I was surprised to see the Doctor Who Reference Guide in your ist of review sites, as it has story summaries but no commentary or ratings, and I expect that out of a review.

Oh, and some of the reviews I've got are written by Cliffy.
 
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Old 2005-12-28, 08:56 PM   #33
inflatable dalek
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I loved it... Tennant was as fantastic as I knew he had the potential to be (hell, in the Big Finish audio's he's played everything from a Nazi to a inocent victim of Nurke and Hare utterly convincingly), and Rose's family have grown on me- It's almost as if the Doctor has adopted them as a surrogate family to replace the one he's lost... Though those of you that hate Mickey should be warned he'll be joining the Tardis crew on a more permanent basis next year.

I agree it's a shame a cast iron oportunity for the Brig to appear has been passed up... I suppose the problem is that his role would have been that of the UNIT chap who died, which I can't see them doing (especialy without having even meet the Doctor...). And even if he'd lived, he'd have been complicent with the massacre at the end, which again I can't see them doing somehow...

Still, the middle 8 and the season 18 scarf made up for it. As well as "Martians look completely different". Odd to think this is the same show that was reluctant to name check Davros when they had a perfectly good chance to last year...

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He could have used up more than one life in that whole shindig
It's circumstancial, but Gareth Roberts points out that in the Titanic photo in Rose the Eccles Doc is wearing a much more traditional (as far as the viewing public are concerned) Victorian style Doctor costume. It's unlikely just to be blending in (as he never bothers at any other point), so it suggests he went through a deeply traumatic event after the photo was taken that even changed the way he dresses, so perhaps Doc9 was the only one to go through the war?
 
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Old 2005-12-28, 09:02 PM   #34
Denyer
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Quote:
Originally posted by Bouncelot
Incidentally, I was surprised to see the Doctor Who Reference Guide in your ist of review sites, as it has story summaries but no commentary or ratings, and I expect that out of a review.
Any summary other than the cover blurb is a form of review (i.e. someone telling you about the book) although that quick list came out of Google's first page for ["sky pirates" "doctor who" review] and knowing the URL for drwhoguide.com -- basically, recognising sites I've visited recently, and I don't think you've done that one yet.

Would've been a darned sight more useful if I'd been paying attention and picked out the URL for http://www.gallifreyone.com/reviews.php rather than guides-books.php, though...

Quote:
Originally posted by inflatable dalek
those of you that hate Mickey should be warned he'll be joining the Tardis crew on a more permanent basis next year.
I shall endeavour not to kill the messenger...

*twitches*
 
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Old 2005-12-28, 09:09 PM   #35
inflatable dalek
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Oh, and how adorable is rusty K-9? And were those period dressed Autons? (though like Cliffy, I thought the same about the Sata's...)
 
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Old 2005-12-28, 10:02 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally posted by Denyer
Any summary other than the cover blurb is a form of review (i.e. someone telling you about the book) although that quick list came out of Google's first page for ["sky pirates" "doctor who" review] and knowing the URL for drwhoguide.com -- basically, recognising sites I've visited recently, and I don't think you've done that one yet.
Hm, true enough. It'll probably be done at some point in January, though. With over 250 books, it takes a while to cover all of them...
 
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Old 2005-12-29, 05:05 AM   #37
Cliffjumper
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Hmm, with the Brig I don't see how he'd have had to replace Major Blackguyinauthoritywoo. Between Nick's age, and Russell's ongoing goal to convince us a) he invented Doctor Who and b) the Ecclestone series was actually the first series I was hoping more for a cameo, as some retired expert giving some advice. He could have been incorporated, basically, without any real trouble, or saying "Look! Proof the first 26 series happened! Russ didn't invent it after all!". Considering the little references we get in more high-risk ventures like the X-Men films, it's a bit of a shame there haven't been a few more in the series.

One thing about the X-Bo Invasion that's bothering me... I'm being a bit thick maybe, so be gentle: Those Santas chase Rose and Mickey because they're after the Doctor (they seem to chase them by trying to kill them), which would seem to imply they know of the Doctor and his companion... and yet, when first Rose and Mickey, and then the Doctor turn up on their ship, they seem to be utterly ignorant of him... if they were just after the energy source, why go for Rose? Why sneak around in Santa costumes and killer Christmas trees when they're simultaneously broadcasting their real faces to the world? It just didn't quite hang together... Did I miss something here?
 
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Old 2005-12-29, 05:23 AM   #38
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Ah, ****. I forgot it was on. Anybody know if CBC is gonna show it again?
 
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Old 2005-12-29, 12:19 PM   #39
Halfshell
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Quote:
Originally posted by Cliffjumper
One thing about the X-Bo Invasion that's bothering me... I'm being a bit thick maybe, so be gentle: Those Santas chase Rose and Mickey because they're after the Doctor (they seem to chase them by trying to kill them), which would seem to imply they know of the Doctor and his companion... and yet, when first Rose and Mickey, and then the Doctor turn up on their ship, they seem to be utterly ignorant of him... if they were just after the energy source, why go for Rose? Why sneak around in Santa costumes and killer Christmas trees when they're simultaneously broadcasting their real faces to the world? It just didn't quite hang together... Did I miss something here?
Way I understood it was that the Father Christmas blokes weren't actually the same jobbies as the big ol' "we control your blood" goons.

I got the impression that they were parasite hanger-ons. Either despatched by the main guys to find the Big Ol Power Source and retrieve it, or they did it off their own backs to curry favour.

In other terms, they probably knew about the Doctor to the extent of "something's churning out a lot of energy" but not much else. Maybe the scouting party didn't bother mentioning Rose and Mickey.

That said, the Sycorax didn't really seem that bothered about getting the energy source - they just seemed concerned about the planet.

So, we went from "they're after me because I'm a battery right now - and something bigger will follow them" to "they want the planet and may or may not know about me" without much of a segue.

Perhaps it's like the whole "looks a bit tired" thing. We're just meant to accept it because RTD wrote the episode and therefore everything makes sense?
 

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Old 2005-12-29, 05:33 PM   #40
inflatable dalek
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Quote:
Originally posted by Cliffjumper
"Look! Proof the first 26 series happened! Russ didn't invent it after all!".
But surely an entire episode devoted to frigging K.9 and SJS does that just as well? I'd say there's more references to the old show in the special than in the entire eccles era ("Of course not, Martians look completely different"), so I guess they're more confident now they can reference the past without alienating viewers. And am I mad, but was the whole ginger thing a reference to the description of the future Doctor in the Battlefield novelisation?

The Santa's had nothing whatsoever to do with the main badies, bar traveling in their wake to pick of any tidbits they can (in other words... pilot fish). A cruel person might suggest they were only added to the plot to give Rose somthing to do whilst the Doctor had his nap and UNIT got on with the main story.

The one thing, plot wise, that really bugged me was the slightly contrived way everyone gets into the Tardis so they can get beamed up... I mean, why would Rose think the ship is the safest place to be when just last episode she thought a couple of Dalek missiles would be enough to destroy it? Though I suppose in the thirty seconds between Children's Cuttaway and the pre credits sequence he could have explained it's indestructable...
 
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