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Old 2003-12-27, 06:24 PM   #41
Denyer
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I tend to force insurance... I generally mail 2nd-class recorded or via airmail when selling. If buying, I know what the postal rates are for the US/UK, so I can either query whether p&p includes insurance or add on a reasonably generous amount and ask 'em to send recorded / insured airmail.

I wouldn't send anything to or from the US without insurance, because your postal service seems quite lousy. Ours, by comparison, is just a little slow.

If insurance is offered and the buyer declines, tough. If insurance isn't offered, you've given the buyer no option to protect themselves, but they should still check with you what p&p covers. If insurance is refused, the seller is a crook.
 
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Old 2003-12-27, 06:50 PM   #42
Jim
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This is the original thread on eBay is was looking at:

http://forums.ebay.com/db1/thread.js...20031227104549

You might have to hit "All Msg" to all the posts.
 
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Old 2003-12-27, 07:21 PM   #43
Sir Auros
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In my own case, I think it may lean towards the seller's fault since I suspect he sent it to the wrong address instead of the one I told him to send it to since I got an outside ebay deal from him a little later. I'm having someone who lives around the address I think it may have been sent to look into it.

But yeah, generally it's the sh*tty postal service's fault.
 
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Old 2003-12-27, 08:00 PM   #44
Denyer
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If you can prove postage, mail fraud is out as a recourse. Therefore, it comes down to either courts or service provider TOC.

With postal insurance, you're not going to be left out-of-pocket in the event that you need to give a refund.

eBay are unlikely to suspend (or even investigate) on the basis of a claim from a zero member if the seller can prove postage. Instant payment services are the weak link in this regard.

PayPal have been demonstrated to be complete ****s when it comes to claims filed against sellers, but this is avoided by refusing PayPal for large amounts or using an entirely separate bank account for those transactions.

Since I see neither sellers dropping like flies nor much publicity outside of eBay's own forums, I don't think it's a big worry.

http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/conline/pubs/online/auctions.htm
http://pages.ebay.co.uk/help/communi...estigates.html
http://www.macobserver.com/article/2001/04/03.10.shtml

Quote:
I agree with both positions. eBay has become a haven for criminals of each type. I have been subjected to both. Of the two types, the one I deal with constantly are buyers that claim to have never received the merchandise, demand refunds, and then issue Fraud alerts with PayPal, eBay, and SquareTrade. I have had this happen a dozen times in the last year alone, on auctions from $20 to over $350.00.

While Delivery Confirmation is an option, sometimes earlier in my eBay life I did not engage Delivery Confirmation. How quickly we learn...

One person who I sent a very large shipment to via USPS claimed to have never received the pkg, claimed fraud, etc. My solution was to be patient and take the abuse, and when that became too much, I began to file a formal complaint with USPS. USPS is a government agency. Tampering with the mail is a Felony, punishable by years in Prison. They take it extremely seriously. Investigators were dispatched, documents were sent back and forth, and the Postal Investigators were diligent and thorough in their communications and promise for a resolution. Surprisingly enough, when I communicated this to the Buyer, miraculouosly, the next day his shipment had arrived.

Be advised: The number one trick that eBay buyers/scammers use is to get eBay, PayPal, and SquareTrade on their side by immediately filing Fraud charges. These sites are set up to cater to Buyers, not Sellers, and you will be harrassed at every turn. The methodology is simple: harass you on multiple fronts until you give in, give up, or quit. I have witnessed uncounted amounts of flame mail from scammers. Generlly speaking, the higher the level pressure and verbal abuse, the more likely it is a scam. Especially if the dollar amount of the disputed item is relatively unproportionate to the level of animosity you are receiving. And if that isn't enough, if you fail to remedy the situation to their satisfaction, they will breach ever imaginable code of conduct in their quest to avoid being sued by the Buyer. Are you aware that PayPal (eBay child) will "sweep" your account and refund money to your Buyer without any authorization? Are you aware that even if you have shipped the item, once they remove money from your account, it will not (under any circumstances) be reversed and credited to your account? Yep, you betcha. A couple of my scammer-buyers got product and my money. How's that for adding insult to injury-

Keep in mind several things when dealing with this situation. You have no rights as a Seller, and very little rights as a Buyer. Think that's innacurate? - think again. I paid over $1000.00 in legal fees just for User Agreement and contract review by a skilled lawyer specializing in legal issues involving the Internet. The net result: all of these companies have the right to do whatever they want with your goods, money, etc., and there's not a darn thing you can do if you disagree, are defrauded, or want recourse. Ask the thousands of Buyers and Sellers involved in class-action lawsuits still pending against eBay, PayPal, and other e-tailers. For me, it ruined my business, as I built my model around eBay's services. Never rely on the goodwill of others to conduct business. Over time, it's like gambling at Las Vegas: eventually the house wins and you lose.

As an example, I offer the following story. I did over 30k in sales with eBay this year alone, and paid an average of a 20% fee between PayPal and eBay Final Value and Listing Fees. As a Verified PowerSeller, SquareTrade Seal member, Verified PayPal auctioneer, etc., I was afforded little, if any, rights when I ran into my last round of trouble with Buyers. My accounts were suspended indefinitely. I could not even see what the issues were to be resolved. After providing countless e-Mail and Web From replies including documented information on shipping (UPS), e-Mail headers, etc., and finally even sending them Certified Mail return receipt requested, my accounts to this day remain suspended. When I ask to inquire what the problem is, I am told to contact their Legal Department. When I ask for what purpose (am I being sued or prosecuted?) - I am told that I am not in any trouble, but that is the process. No other information is forthcoming from any eBay department; SafeHarbor simply sent me a one line reply to my documnetation "...This account will remain suspended...". Customer Service is a farce, the Legal Department is a black hole, Account Review (in Draper, Utah) is another file and forget it pit of quicksand. In short, you have no rights, no recourse, and no reciprocity as a "valued" business partner. Think of that when you decide if it is worth your time to Buy or Sell on eBay.

IMHO, eBay will inevitably fold given the amount of online Fraud, corporate scandal, litigation, lack of customer service, lack of business ettiquette or partnering, and commuincation failures. It will only be a matter of time before someone enters the marketplace who offers all of these services as part of its business model, and reduces the risk associated with transacting business with a 3rd party. I, for one, have given up my crusade with eBay in favor of opening an account with Amazon.com's zShops. Their site is the benchmark in e-commerce, and their operations are designed for the type of volume and diversity that is necessary to offer things like phone contact, support, and fair dealings with customers and Sellers.

The remedy will come in the form of tough laws regarding conducting business in the Internet. Eventually, all of these entities will become regulated - there are no other alternatives. Self-policing is like sticking a finger in the biggest Trade dike known to man. This will be years in the making, and ultimately will reduce the number of e-Commerce businesses exponentially. Only those entities that are able to afford the requirements of conducting online business will be able to afford to enter the marketplace. Do I see this happening next year? - no. But within 5-10 years, it will undoubtedly take place. ALl that needs to happen is for some greasy politician to get scammed for big money, or be worried about getting re-elected, and then we'll see a complete reform.

As for eBay ? - Good-bye, and good riddance. May you all go back to being the used car salesmen that you once were... I'll wait for the new and improved model, and save myself the trouble of dealing with the king of all scammers. lol
http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=cache:
wVxlUklGAFwJ:http://www.myauctionplanet.com/forum...hl=en&ie=UTF-8

Basically, use insurance wherever possible, negative feedback anyone who claims non-delivery, refund after reasonable consideration, and if necessary, set TOC based on feedback profiles. Fraudsters are most likely to target those who use eBay as a business model.
 
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Old 2003-12-28, 01:36 AM   #45
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I force priority shipping, and insurance on my buyers. I don't give them a choice in the matter, and i've done that since way back in 2000 when i sold on yahoo auctions, and i've yet to lose a package. I figure that the priority and insurance keeps the postal service in line and when they see it they do their job right, and if anything ever happens i can refund the buyer. I'm not sure if i still state it in the shipping section but i know for the longest of time i put the comment in there that priority and insurance was there for both buyer and seller protection.

When i go looking for something to bid on i won't buy from anyone that doesn't offer priority w/insurance.
 
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Old 2003-12-28, 02:33 AM   #46
Sir Auros
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On a sidenote, I found a Buzz-Off at Kmart tonight and snagged the yellow & bronze axe version for $8, but still no word yet from the guy at my old apartment complex and whether or not the current tenants received a package for me.

The bottom line really is the sh*tty postal service.
 
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Old 2003-12-28, 03:34 AM   #47
Denyer
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Based on everything I've heard of our postal service and yours, I'd be far more willing to trust ours with non-insured carriage. In fact, I don't think your airmail includes automatic insurance up to a basic value... anything we send recorded in this country or via airmail abroad is covered for up to 28. It's a nice sign that Royal Mail take their job seriously.

Buzz-Off is nifty.
 
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Old 2004-02-13, 02:50 PM   #48
Denyer
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Unhappy eBay problem...

...remind me, the seller is responsible for goods reaching the customer in the order advertised, yes?

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.d...EBWN%3AIT&rd=1

I specifically requested and paid for insurance, but I doubt the guy who sold it insured it up to its actual value. It wasn't packed especially well, but there's no doubt it suffered a fairly severe impact whilst in the care of the postal service: The corner with the power connector is buckled, the socket itself is out of alignment, and you can see the snapped circuit board underneath.

Any tips on mediation strategy? Anyone any experience of UK small claims courts if the guy gets bolshy? Cover for private sales is less than that when dealing with traders, but the item is explicitly described as being "in full working order and in good overall condition".

F**k. I could've done without this.
 
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Old 2004-02-13, 04:37 PM   #49
Sir Auros
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So he didn't insure it for the price you paid for it?

I'd say it's his responsibility to reimburse you for what you paid for the item, shipping, and insurance because it was clearly damaged in transit and he had instructions to insure it.
 
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Old 2004-02-13, 04:44 PM   #50
Denyer
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Quote:
Originally posted by Sir Auros
So he didn't insure it for the price you paid for it?
http://www.royalmail.com/portal/rm/c...mediaId=400150

Actually, as far as I can see, the table on that page is bollocks.

This is more representative of the situation as I personally understand it:

http://members.ebay.co.uk/aboutme/postal_help

So hopefully there won't be any problem him getting the refund to pass on to me. Assuming he hasn't lost the slip and gets back to me.

Otherwise, I'll have a pressing desire to read up on the requirements of a small claims county court action.

But... nice first, hope not to bring out big guns.
 
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Old 2004-02-13, 06:50 PM   #51
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The first table you showed was the royal mail special delivery table, if he did actually send it special delivery (silver label) then the parcel was insured for up to 250 minimum, and providing he kept his proof of delivery for it you shouldn't have a problem claiming for it at all.

If you put the wrong table up and he merely sent it recorded delivery (orange kind of label) then it's only insured for 28 like first class and you may have slightly more trouble getting the money out of him.

Hope that helps?
 
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Old 2004-02-13, 09:52 PM   #52
Denyer
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It's special D (I have about an inch-and-a-half thick stack of recorded delivery slips from the last two or three months, I'm no particular stranger to Royal Mail) so no worries there. Just never had to make a claim before, either directly or indirectly.

The post office table is just a bit screwed, given that it reads "<blank>", "What you pay = 250", "Maximum compensation per price for loss/damage = 1000", "Maximum compensation per price for loss/damage =2500". I mean, two of the column titles are the same.

Guy seems friendly and has got back in touch, so hopefully'll be no problems.
 
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Old 2004-03-05, 10:08 PM   #53
nmathew
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Default ebay seller issue, suggestions wanted

I bought 2 large ticket items (I consider them large ticket) on ebay. I bought 1 for personal use, and 1 because I believe I can resell it with about a 50% markup.

Total, they run about $200.

The seller listed in a corner of the auction that there would be a 3% extra charge if I pay using paypal. I missed the notice because it wasn't under the payment options link, and because I've never looked for a similar notice before.

Ebay's policies clearly state that the seller is not allowed to add an extra 3% charge to cover paypal fees (why I never check for these things). Paypal states that doing so is only legal in the UK, and that doing so voids their seller protection policy. I could pay with a money order, but I would rather have the added protection of using my credit card with paypal. I also get a 1% kickback from my credit card if I pay with it. I guess if I wanted to be a true dick, I could pay then use their lack of a seller protection policy to my advantage, but that's unethical.

I'm considering just e-mailing the seller and stating that while she said she would charge extra for using paypal, that it's against ebay policy. I could try working out a compromise, because personal accounts at paypal can accept a bank transfer of funds for free.

Any ideas on how I should handle this?
 

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Old 2004-03-05, 10:11 PM   #54
Sir Auros
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I'd go with emailing her and seeing if a compromise could be reached. She should also be told that if she wants to use that markup then she should mark up the price in the shipping and handling since I believe that would work under ebay's guidelines. Wouldn't be very fair to anyone not paying with paypal though...
 
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Old 2004-03-05, 11:50 PM   #55
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I use PayPal all the time, and honour the contracts made. I don't charge extra for buyers (which sellers in the UK aren't supposed to do in most situations either) and I take into account other stipulations when paying and choosing a payment method if more than one is available.
 
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Old 2004-03-06, 01:27 AM   #56
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Well my PP account is a premier account so i can recive payments made by credit cards.. thus every transaction made it charges me 2% on top of it.. but i usally add it into the handleing charge but oh well.... email the seller and/or ebay..
 
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Old 2004-03-06, 02:34 AM   #57
Savannahtron
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Simply do 2 paypal transactions. First one is for the total, and do the 2nd one as quasi cash, you're covered as far as paypal, and then the seller gets his 3%.

Simply put.
 
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Old 2004-03-06, 04:13 AM   #58
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Quote:
Originally posted by Savannahtron
Simply do 2 paypal transactions. First one is for the total, and do the 2nd one as quasi cash, you're covered as far as paypal, and then the seller gets his 3%.

Simply put.
Yeah, but the point is that the seller shouldn't be able to collect that 3%.
 
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Old 2004-03-06, 04:52 AM   #59
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There's no reason they shouldn't recoup it as business costs, formed as part of a contract... the issue is that PayPal act like arses about it.
 
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Old 2004-03-06, 05:14 AM   #60
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It's a clear violation of eBay's terms of service. Because it's such a blatant violation, I've never looked for such a statement in the auction before.

eBay states that such fees need to be included in the price of the item. There are legal issues involving surcharges for credit card payments as well, but I don't believe that they apply here.

I've sent an e-mail which states my reservations about sending a $200 money order through the mail without the additional protections a credit card or PayPal provides. I provided ebay's policies, and I listed two alternatives that I believe will be satisfactory. I hope that the seller is willing to compromise a bit.

While I'm willing to acknowledge that I missed the 3% fee listed in the auction, I don't believe that I should be required to check the listings for terms that violate E-bay policies.
 

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