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Old 2006-11-08, 05:42 PM   #41
Rurudyne
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coppertop ... interesting reading.

What is its larger context? Links?
 

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Last edited by Rurudyne; 2006-11-08 at 05:45 PM.
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Old 2006-11-08, 06:23 PM   #42
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http://www.plumed-serpent.com/soundwave.html

Check out:
Inside "Soundwavespace"
Biography
Telepathic Abilities
Soundwave and Megatron
Earthbase Quarters
What Really Happened in the Shuttle
Why Soundwave?

(BTW I think the story about the Aerilabots deals with some of the question of what it's like to be a child Autobot. Anyway age does not equal maturity- I've met 10-year-olds who are more mature than 40-year-olds.)

The Fruedian aspects of Raksha's unhealthy relationship with Soundwave have always fascinated me. Got me to thinking, what does it mean to feel this way about Soundwave, to have invented this elaborate wonderworld which differs so greatly from his techspech bio and all else? To say nothing of her making the Decepticons honorable and the Autobots evil (wow!) I guess the starting point is the cartoon: an egoless mother-figure whose vocoder-harmonised voice has a calming effect (like a purring cat.) Check out (under "Why Soundwave?"):

"But I only had to hear Soundwave's voice once - that harmonious, comforting sound that seemed to hold the wisdom of the ages - only had to see a moment or two of interaction between him and the others - to realize that the greatest treasure among the Decepticons lay almost behind the scenes. It would be no great exaggeration to say that I fell in love with Soundwave's voice from the first moment - and one of the main reasons that I returned to watch further episodes, which led me into such intensive involvement with the fandom, was to hear more of that voice. In fact, the earliest Transformer dream I ever had, was of watching a cartoon episode on t.v., with a Soundwave voice-over reading aloud the credits at the end as they came up on screen. And here I'd complained that he didn't have enough speaking parts.... "

Let's see... I have no idea. Anyone care to interpret?

But amusing as it is, I can almost see where Raksha gets it, if not where she's coming from. Soundwave is one of the weirdest characters in the show, when you think about it. Wheras Blaster seems to have more normal relations with his cassettes, being a more humanised robot as well as clearly male, Soundwave is more gender-ambiguous- though male in appearance (broad shoulders, solid build,) his voice is not exactly male. Who knows? The show only gives glimpses of whether for example the tapes are his pets/kids (well Rumble and Frenzy are probably not his kids) or just fellow warriors who spend time in his "womb" to conserve energy. Frued might say that Megatron is (clearly) the father-figure and Soundwave is the mother, with Starscream clearly representing the offspring's desire to kill the father and the tapes representing the offspring's desire to return to the womb. Prime is also an obvious father-figure, with many child-figures attempting to kill him, such as Grimlock, with the mother-figure being planet Earth, except that this makes Megatron another child-figure attempting to kill the father (Prime) so he can possess the mother (Earth's resources.) But if you look at the way Transformers are actually created- Vector Sigma, mother of all Transformers and yet the God-figure in the series, the real father-figure (or penis-figure I guess) is the Key to Vector Sigma. This leads me one conclusion: Sigmund Freud was a crackhead, and I should read Jung instead.
As for Raksha- man, her childhood must have been messed up.
 

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Old 2006-11-08, 07:12 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally posted by coppertop
This leads me one conclusion: Sigmund Freud was a crackhead
To be fair, so was everyone who was drinking original recipe Coca Cola...

Quote:
the show only gives glimpses of whether for example the tapes are his pets
Dunno... it's fairly clear that the show writers had no wit beyond making "animal" TFs act like animals, with rare exception (eg, Sky Lynx.)
 
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Old 2006-11-08, 07:16 PM   #44
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I'd guess with Sky Lynx it's because they couldn't work out what the **** he was...

I do hate that about the series. I mean, I don't have particular scorn for the idea of Transformers having some equivalent of pets, but when your childhood memories of the Decepticon tapes revolve around the exquisite Universe profiles, and you sit down and watch MTMTE and there's no indication they're even sentient, well, it kind-of grates.
 
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Old 2006-11-08, 10:52 PM   #45
Cunning Ravage
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Quote:
Originally posted by coppertop

This leads me one conclusion: Sigmund Freud was a crackhead, and I should read Jung instead.
It tells me you forgot to take into account one of Freud's best observations on his own work, "Sometimes a cigar is only a cigar." Or in Raksha's case a crazy is a crazy.


Quote:
Originally posted by Cliffjumper
I'd guess with Sky Lynx it's because they couldn't work out what the **** he was...
Hmm alway's thought he was a Pterodactyl and puma.

Quote:
Originally posted by Cliffjumper
I do hate that about the series. I mean, I don't have particular scorn for the idea of Transformers having some equivalent of pets, but when your childhood memories of the Decepticon tapes revolve around the exquisite Universe profiles, and you sit down and watch MTMTE and there's no indication they're even sentient, well, it kind-of grates.
Really, if there's one thing I can never quite grasp about Raksha and some of the other Cartoon only fans is their dismissal of letting the tapes be there own fully independent characters. Well, ok the comics didn't always take advantage of it the few times they did, Ravage (UK mainly) and Ratbat,more than justify the approach. And yes I did just say I like Ratbat, well not always the best handled in the evil plots department just the act of having a leader on either side but especially the Decepticons (As pointed out by Cliffjumper in his essay "Defending Bob") who wasn't any stronger then his troops was and is refreshing, and he did make those dumb plots work so that has to say something.
 

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Hush. Darkness gathers. -G2 Megatron

Dying once is bad enough... twice is beyond a joke! - G1 Prowl

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Old 2006-11-09, 01:59 AM   #46
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Quote:
Originally posted by Cliffjumper
I'd guess with Sky Lynx it's because they couldn't work out what the **** he was...

I do hate that about the series. I mean, I don't have particular scorn for the idea of Transformers having some equivalent of pets, but when your childhood memories of the Decepticon tapes revolve around the exquisite Universe profiles, and you sit down and watch MTMTE and there's no indication they're even sentient, well, it kind-of grates.
I agree with you, Cliffjumper, when I first saw Sky Lynx, I was wondering what he was, when I saw more of him, I kinda figure it out.
 


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Old 2006-11-09, 06:59 AM   #47
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Squeee! I've discovered a hidden nest of Standup Philosophers!

Ok ... coppertop, first a reaction:
Quote:
(BTW I think the story about the Aerilabots deals with some of the question of what it's like to be a child Autobot. Anyway age does not equal maturity- I've met 10-year-olds who are more mature than 40-year-olds.)
Fair enough for school. And if you see that 10 year old again, tell him from me that it's O.K. to be child-like.

I have my own take on different characters as well as why they are the way they are ... that much may be obvious. Yet even in the case where the much-younger version of the character is portrayed the least like his eventual self, Shockwave, there is a method to my own madness as well as a purpose for same.

This brings up what you said about Plumed Serpent / Raksah (who I'm assuming from your test to be one and the same).

Sometimes you make the story and sometimes the story remakes you ... this individual would seem to to fall into the latter category.

As such, her stories are probably a window on her Id rather than her Ego and her characterizations reflect an identification with the Decepticons as they might see themselves at the time of the G1 cartoon series ... which is her context for her views on them (and probably why she "hates" any other context).

Think of it as a response to a Messiah Complex and view Megatron as the cult leader. In this analysis: in his own story, Megatron isn't just some random villian, but is instead the hero who has to do unsavory things so that he and the Decepticons can fulfill their "destiny."

This may not be too far from what the writers may have had in mind for him ... quotes like "Why throw your life away so carelessly?" virtually reeks of someone who is acting out a great destiny ... as is Megatron's reaction when faced with his own death at Unicron's hands ... er ... mouth.

Now consider the lady's attachment to Soundwave. Rather than Fruedian imagery, consider what Soundwave may represent in this light. He isn't the "great one" but he is important. Further, he appears to be among the most wholesome of all Decepticons by his apparently intelligent loyalty to Megatron's cause a view that may be butressed by the fellowship he appears to share with his cassettes (a level of trust they are inside him that is unknown among other Decepticons).

Rather than being sexually ambiguous, to this lady: Soundwave may represent the masculine hero, and the perfect Decepticon soldier. Essentially an idealized hero like the Greek heroes of old (who weren't all that nice a bunch themselves).

I would suggest that her devotion to Soundwave represents her devotion to her "great one" ... but she can't be Megatron she can't even serve in his cause being a work of fiction and all that BUT, she can be devoted to the one who best serves Megatron (and Galvatron, too) in his cause: Soundwave.

One test for this analysis is what does Raksah make of Starscream?

If I'm even close she probably has a level of disdain for the Seeker that may approach visceral hate at times. After all, Starscream is the embodyment of everything that is disfunctional in the "army" that is the Decepticons. Worse, he's technically higher ranking than her hero.

Since you know her writing better that I (having only your "case file" to work with so far) you can tell me if I'm right or where I'm wrong.

As for the symbolism of Vector Sigma and all that ... I would agree that this entity appears to serve the role of one who bears rather than one who begets. Thus transformers probably feel towards this entity like they might a mother; however, their "mother" is really nothing more than a brood mare by that light who helps the builder "father" and the Allspark "father" to get the job done and nothing more.

Vector Sigma was known in the G1 toon but as far as I know the "Key to Vector Sigma" was not made out to be anything more than the method for accessing the computer and had none of the Beast War's significance or raw power (or else the Decepticons would have used that power).

Getting back to Raksah for a moment: I would be curious to see if her opinion of Alpha Trion is in line with someone who ultimately agrees to be emasculated or else someone who proves his "male virtue" in the nobility of his sacrifice?

If the latter, we could be looking at a sort of fixation on the masculine hero as well as a possible indication of what sort of "masculinity" we are talking about here (again, that all assumes I've not just broke a collosal Egg Sandwich Fart here).

As for Skylynx ...
 

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Old 2006-11-09, 07:03 AM   #48
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Quote:
Originally posted by Denyer
To be fair, so was everyone who was drinking original recipe Coca Cola...
Ah yes ... the "real thing" ...

Have you ever seen Mel Brook's Silent Movie? The spoofing of product placement in movies by means of Coca Cola is priceless.

And to think, back then they only had 32 oz drinks ... not the 64 oz bladder flushers we have today.
 

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Old 2006-11-09, 12:58 PM   #49
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....*ahem*...so the cartoon was a bit rubbish then wasn't it?
 

. "Hawkeye's the best! Hawkeye's got the cutest eyes! Hawkeye's got some kinda butt! I swear, Ralph, ever since that blowhard joined up, all I hear is Hawkeye, Hawkeye, Hawk...."- Green Arrow, JLA/Avengers #3.
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Old 2006-11-09, 01:05 PM   #50
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I'm just stunned it took 59 posts to reach that conclusion...
 

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Old 2006-11-09, 02:55 PM   #51
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yeah my brain was on auto-pilot until i noticed freudian concepts being applied to a 30 minute toy commercial. I would have applied the rubbish seal much earlier otherwise.
 

. "Hawkeye's the best! Hawkeye's got the cutest eyes! Hawkeye's got some kinda butt! I swear, Ralph, ever since that blowhard joined up, all I hear is Hawkeye, Hawkeye, Hawk...."- Green Arrow, JLA/Avengers #3.
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Old 2006-11-09, 03:08 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally posted by Hawkeye
yeah my brain was on auto-pilot until i noticed freudian concepts being applied to a 30 minute toy commercial. I would have applied the rubbish seal much earlier otherwise.
Maybe this should be cleaned up and moved to the essays are as part of a philosophical writers' guide?

"Why your story needs Children but not sex!" could be a working title.

I have, sitting before me on my desk, a book entitled The History of Farting ... does that explain anything?

"Hawkeye ... *khaaa hisss* join us the Standup Philosophers ... it is your dessstiny!"
 

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"Do not taunt Happy Fun Ball"

Last edited by Rurudyne; 2006-11-09 at 03:11 PM.
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Old 2006-11-09, 03:12 PM   #53
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I beleive I have made my stand. R U B B I S H.
 

. "Hawkeye's the best! Hawkeye's got the cutest eyes! Hawkeye's got some kinda butt! I swear, Ralph, ever since that blowhard joined up, all I hear is Hawkeye, Hawkeye, Hawk...."- Green Arrow, JLA/Avengers #3.
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Old 2006-11-09, 03:29 PM   #54
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Quote:
Originally posted by Hawkeye
I beleive I have made my stand. R U B B I S H.
No, not "rubbish" ... leftovers....
Quote:
(to the tune of "Saturday Night")

L E F T O V E R! Hey, hey|!

L E F T O V E R! That's right!

Well it's leftovers tonite cause I ain't got no money,
Classic Platinum Megatron hit the stores right after I got paid,
And how I wish I had something eat besides,
Leftover spagettii bologonese!

 

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Old 2006-11-09, 07:26 PM   #55
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Quote:
Originally posted by Rurudyne
As such, her stories are probably a window on her Id rather than her Ego and her characterizations reflect an identification with the Decepticons as they might see themselves at the time of the G1 cartoon series ... which is her context for her views on them (and probably why she "hates" any other context).
This is what scares me about Raksah she seems convinced that the writers of the cartoon were putting enought thought into it to come up with these whole world veiw for the Decepticons and all she's done is uncover it. That and she seems to agree with the ideology she's invented for them, and well the ideas seem disturbingly familiar. (A destiny to conquer based off of "needing" the land more and being more "fit" to have it, and lesser species holding them back so they must be destroyed...)

Quote:
Originally posted by Rurudyne
Think of it as a response to a Messiah Complex and view Megatron as the cult leader. In this analysis: in his own story, Megatron isn't just some random villian, but is instead the hero who has to do unsavory things so that he and the Decepticons can fulfill their "destiny."

This may not be too far from what the writers may have had in mind for him ...
Are we talking about the same writers? The ones who didn't care enough to keep origan stories stright? Or even bothering telling us were all those new Autobots came from in season two?

Quote:
Originally posted by Rurudyne
One test for this analysis is what does Raksah make of Starscream?

If I'm even close she probably has a level of disdain for the Seeker that may approach visceral hate at times. After all, Starscream is the embodyment of everything that is disfunctional in the "army" that is the Decepticons. Worse, he's technically higher ranking than her hero.
From what I can recall she's fairly neutral about him, though she does insist that off-camera they get along and even respect one another. I believe that she likens the Cons to a wolf pack were Starscream is fulling the "nesscery" function of keeping the "Alpha" (I.E. Megatron) on his toes and probing him for weakness and Megatron's reactions is only reasserting his authority. Thus neither is personal or based on ego.:rolleyes: Really I don't think her mind could handled the idea that there is anything wrong or less than perfect in any of the Cons from the first two seasons.

Quote:
Originally posted by Hawkeye
....*ahem*...so the cartoon was a bit rubbish then wasn't it?
Quote:
Originally posted by Brendocon
I'm just stunned it took 59 posts to reach that conclusion...
I Thought it want without saying personally.

Quote:
Originally posted by Hawkeye
yeah my brain was on auto-pilot until i noticed freudian concepts being applied to a 30 minute toy commercial. I would have applied the rubbish seal much earlier otherwise.
It may be dumb but it is amusing.
 

Where's a nice alternative when you need one! -Ravage

Hush. Darkness gathers. -G2 Megatron

Dying once is bad enough... twice is beyond a joke! - G1 Prowl
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Old 2006-11-10, 12:01 AM   #56
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Raksha's a mad bitch.
 
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Old 2006-11-10, 04:42 AM   #57
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Quote:
Originally posted by Cliffjumper
Raksha's a mad bitch.
Again I Thought it want without saying personally.
 

Where's a nice alternative when you need one! -Ravage

Hush. Darkness gathers. -G2 Megatron

Dying once is bad enough... twice is beyond a joke! - G1 Prowl
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Old 2006-11-10, 10:01 AM   #58
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You think being obsessed with Soundwave is bad, I know a certain someone who thinks of nothing but Flywheels...
 
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Old 2006-11-10, 10:07 AM   #59
Halfshell
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Well I know he can't be talking about me. I know for a fact that I devote a good 60% of my mind to thinking about how fantastic I am.
 

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Old 2006-11-10, 10:27 AM   #60
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Quote:
Originally posted by Brendocon
Well I know he can't be talking about me. I know for a fact that I devote a good 60% of my mind to thinking about how fantastic I am.
That still leaves 40% for Flywheels.
 
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