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Old 2007-01-02, 05:43 PM   #21
Jaynz
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Why can't some of you accept the fact that I think the Starscream figure shown here sucks on its own merits, and that it has nothing to do with G1?
 
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Old 2007-01-02, 06:12 PM   #22
Denyer
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Didn't see any sign he was talking to you, let alone specifically...

Quote:
Originally posted by Blitzwing's Ghost
It is a shame lots of people are slagging them off before they've even hit the shelves.
Because?

We can see what they look like, and the engineering that's gone into them.

Personally I haven't seen one I've really liked so far, apart from maybe Blackout.

You can crap in a box and say "look, it's authentically alien!" (if we put aside the slim probability of alien life being bipedal with a face at the top) ... but it won't make it any more attractive a toy to kids. They aren't very interested in contextual explanations; it comes down to "is this fun to play with?" and the silent question "do I relate to this enough to pester adults to buy it for me?"
Quote:
Just because the new designs have less fingers, chicken-legs, clawed hands and oddly-enough, alien style heads & faces the majority seen to be assuming that the film will be crap
No, I'd say the majority are assuming it'll be crap because it's a Michael Bay film. (He directed Pearl Harbor, and Don Murphy produced LXG.)

Particularly those who've seen any of the script drafts.
 
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Old 2007-01-02, 08:26 PM   #23
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Alot of people are bagging on the toys and there not out because they just look like crap to some people. I personally like all the figures and designs of each one so far, except for Star Scream, he just looks like trash to me. I like the way Prime and all the autobots I have seen so far look, and I like all the Decipticons to, except For Star Scream. I understand that they are suppose to be ALIEN ROBOTS, I understand that 100%, what I dont like is the fact that Star Scream looks like Garbage in robot mode to me, his jet form is ok, but for a robot mode to look like that, I really dont agree with it, and I also said that I was going to pass my full judgement when I get to see the figure in stores and in my hands when they come out. I think the movie is going to be the summer hit, right up there next to Spiderman 3. I honestly think they will be neck and neck. I think that Bay and whoever else did this movie is doing a good job with it, and it wont dissapoint anyone, if they go into it with a open mind about the designs of the Transformers and this movie. I do get tired of people saying because it is a Micheal Bay movie it is going to suck, that is a terrible reason for anything. He might of made a few minutes that wasnt good, but he also has done a few good ones to, to I am going to pass my final judgement on the movie when it comes out.

The toys are cool (except for Star Scream in my opinion), cant wait to see more of the robot designs.
 
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Old 2007-01-02, 09:29 PM   #24
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Comment time:

Ratchet reminds me of something meant to cross great deserts. Looks quite nice in both modes. Still, need to see close up and personal before I make a final decision whether to splash out on him, what with him being an Autobot an' all.

Starscream looks good enough in F-22 mode, but the robot..? Oh, boy! From the back, he's definitely Apeface's missing link; from the front, urrgh. I can only assume that this is some clever reference to his being graceful in the air, but not on the ground? Glad I didn't put in a forward order, after all.
 
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Old 2007-01-02, 09:36 PM   #25
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I'm well into these guys.

To be honest, the only character I've beena bit dubious of (from designs I've seen so far), was Ratchet. This figure (although far simpler than the movie render will be) has totally turned it round for me. Bulky and very interesting to look at (love the reversed upper torso!) - right down to his rather cool hands! Oh - and I actually love that head design! Right up there with Blackout and Barricade for style in my book. Only negative for me is the horrendous green (and I mean ouch that is green! plastic (which does look to leave some of the other paint apps a little tacky and weak), but the mold looks great enough to live with it. (But then, other than the RID X-Brawn repaint, there's not a Ratchet I've ever actually liked before - let alone thought could be great!)

RID Scourge captured Starscream perfectly with:
Quote:
[Starscream's] robot mode looks like a chicken with chainguns attached to its sides
However, to me the look is good. It reminds me very much of G2 Dreadwing. Heavy duty artillery, and a real bruiser to boot. I'm afraid, though, as ashamed as I am, I have difficulty assigning the look to Starscream - but I'm sure it'll click nicely with the film (it's a trivial and superficial issue anyway - Starscream is a character who changes throughout different interpretations anyway, and his film persona is bound to go with this look). I would like to see better photos though, and hope the colourscheme will be much improved. A definite for me though!

Roll on photos of Ironhide, big versions of Optimus and Megs, and detailed photos of Blackout!

This is shaping up to be a great line! (for me)


 

Last edited by numbat; 2007-01-02 at 09:42 PM.
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Old 2007-01-02, 11:12 PM   #27
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Wow - the difference good photos make!

Starscream is looking better than I thought!


 
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Old 2007-01-02, 11:18 PM   #28
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i like them both in their own little ways. i do like ratchet because he looks far more prepared to kick decepticon butt than in the 1986 movie where he got horribly owned with one shot! at least now he looks like he could take several shots, well aimed at that, to bring him down. screamer loosk more ferocious and possibly more diabolical than his g1 personality, more action and talk than all talk and sometimes no action. just am guessing is all. and to answer to the cons of screamer's jet mode, it is pretty tough to turn a jet into a robot without it being veritech fighter-like people, give it a break.
 
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Old 2007-01-03, 01:05 AM   #29
zigzagger
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Ah, I knew I've seen that fluorescent green and red color scheme on a similar terrain vehicle somewhere else before.

http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o...olute/rawr.jpg
http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o...lute/jpcar.jpg

Spielberg’s influence shines through!
 
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Old 2007-01-03, 01:22 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally posted by rubicon
Ah, I knew I've seen that fluorescent green and red color scheme on a similar terrain vehicle somewhere else before.

http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o...olute/rawr.jpg
http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o...lute/jpcar.jpg

Spielberg’s influence shines through!
true, but u wouldnt see ratchet even get close to get eaten by a huge dinosaur lol. interestign pics, i forgot what that toy looked like until now :3
 
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Old 2007-01-03, 03:24 AM   #31
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Those SS pics are better, but.......................now it looks like he's ready to poop standing up! He's even got the face to match!


I really hope these are just bad toy renditions ( mistransformed), with fake heads. :rolleyes:

......Or even a triplechanger, and this would just be his alternate beast form:\


I remember watching a video that said blocky robots won't work in a live action film! How could they think this version of starscream is any better!
 
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Old 2007-01-03, 07:27 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally posted by guitarded
Those SS pics are better, but.......................now it looks like he's ready to poop standing up! He's even got the face to match!


I really hope these are just bad toy renditions ( mistransformed), with fake heads. :rolleyes:

......Or even a triplechanger, and this would just be his alternate beast form:\


I remember watching a video that said blocky robots won't work in a live action film! How could they think this version of starscream is any better!
ok one: starscream is a jet, how the hell would you make him any better than that? These are aliens and they have made that clear. I for one like the head sculpts, seeing human faces on alien robot bodies after awhile makes you sick because there is no originality to them. Two jets can't all turn into veritech/valkryie robotech/macross fighter robots, that is too generic. They have their reasons for doing this, we haven' even seen any real die hard film of starscream yet, the toy counterparts differ significantly from the cgi ones. There is just so much you can do with robots that transform into vehicles, and I think they did the best they really could with this to make it believable - blocky robots... c'mon.... after awhile they are generic and un-original now. Sleek fighting machine robots are in, and that to me and a few others, seem to be the most realistic it can be without being too comic-book-ish in styling.
 
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Old 2007-01-03, 12:08 PM   #33
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Quote:
I for one like the head sculpts, seeing human faces on alien robot bodies after awhile makes you sick because there is no originality to them.
I totally agree with you.

I personally love the head designs for the movie TFs. But, then, my favourite head sculpts from the past tend to be the bizarre.

However, I do think there is a place for stylized blocky robots... in cartoons and toys. Likewise, Transformers have a rather distinct and consistent head design (with a few line and individual exceptions), with head crests, 'helmets', face masks or faces, which have become rather entrenched over the years. It's hardly surprising that something rather stylistically integral to the aesthetics of the brand would be missed by fans if it were dropped. (Count me out though - the movie head designs fit better in my world.)

I think, really, the head designs are the largest departure from Transformer style. The CGI robots are more detailed than anything a cartoon could offer (let alone has chosen to offer), and I don't think that they are significantly different otherwise - to me they smack of Transformers! The number of individual components and splits in the 'shell' allow for a more 'realistic' Transformer (with the head designs really a necessity - what would be the point of a realistic robot from an alien world, spoiled by a human face?).

The result looks very different from a traditional Transformer superficially, because of the degree of distortion of the alternate mode components. But, the toys - far simpler - look to me like traditional bots, with a few new design twists and combinations of past styles. The only actual difference being, really, the reduced number of individual components - the multiple parts of the CGI model have been molded into, say, Ratchet's single torso section. But, I'd figure that's looking at it back-to-front. The CGI designs have come from the toy line styles, right (supposedly, at least)? So, all they've done is interpret basic molded and cartoon structures (almost RID-esque to me), and split large simple bulky sections of alternate mode into lots of articulated parts. Giving, say, Ratchet his distorted many-part CGI torso. (To me, this is a pretty valid real-world interpretation, which could work for many even G1 designs - couldn't a realistic liveaction G1 Smokescreen end up looking rather similar, if maybe a little less interesting, using the same idea?)

Slap on less-human manipulators in place of hands, and a nifty (or horrid, depending on your view) less-human head, and you have these guys.

But, the thing really is - TFs have developed a few styles. This movie, to me, looks to be drawing on many of these from diverse lines, pulling them together. But heads have been almost consistent, and definite cross-line styles have become deep-rooted (almost enshrined), so it's no wonder some people find the movie designs unpalatable. In fact, more than half the fanbase could without being unreasonable - they've grown to like particular things in a head.

Erm - that didn't come out quite as clearly as I'd have liked (but the comp crashed during... excuses excuses... or a poor tradesman always blames his tools...). I hope you can make some sense of it (particularly the multiple shell components in the CGI robot mode = the simple toy and cartoon large sections detailed and made for realistic movement / stylistic interpretation in the real-world). Sorry for the length!

Just like the designs, the movie can't please everyone either - so let's all look forward to seeing how it turns out!


 

Last edited by numbat; 2007-01-03 at 12:12 PM.
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Old 2007-01-03, 02:45 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally posted by numbat
...Transformers have a rather distinct and consistent head design (with a few line and individual exceptions), with head crests, 'helmets', face masks or faces, which have become rather entrenched over the years...

I think, really, the head designs are the largest departure from Transformer style...
Aye, and there's the rub! It would be nice to have the 'traditional' head designs on up-dated bodies. Oh, sure - we'll recognise the characters, but... Ah, I'm old-fashioned, me!
 
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Old 2007-01-03, 05:09 PM   #35
Notabot
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I'd say be glad they have heads at all if "realism" is the driving force behind this generation. Why would they need a head in robot mode when they clearly don't need it in alt mode?
 
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Old 2007-01-03, 06:46 PM   #36
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Hey, the one sci-fi short I've ever managed to get published had happy mechs with no heads for just sensible reasons.

That's kinda why I said 'less-human' anyhoo. Nothing about the robot designs is a radical take on a non-humanoid design. They;re all humanoid by the bucket-load. I guess they just wanted to push the illusion that these guys are alien, and for a wide audience to get into that (rather than children, or us die-hard fans), I think that less-human heads (and hands) and stretched proportions will help folk relate to our good ol' Transformers as something vaguely sensible, and not as sad as they thought - if you get me. (Yeah, I know, I need to remember fullstops exist...)

I in no way want to perpetuate the idea that these TF designs are in any way real life sensible! Heavens no...


 
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Old 2007-01-03, 07:53 PM   #37
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I was under the impression that the transformers were sentient life forms!

Given that, emotions are part of their life force! Emotions are better translated with facial features, a snarly smirk, or grin for example.

Signs of fear, or worry for the humans should have some kind of face to go along with it! Its hard to tell if a pop can is happy or sad, unless it tells you

Who says they don't need noses? Sense of smell?? I would imagine they need to get oxygen somehow because fuel, regardless of its form ( energon or whatever) needs oxygen for combustion.

The helmet / faces worked in the past! Why reinvent the wheel?
 
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Old 2007-01-03, 09:11 PM   #38
Jaynz
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Bah, these Transformers are lucky to get dialog in their own movie, much less have any emotions. :P

If my wife would let me, I would DOUBLE the wager amount (in kind) right now.
 
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Old 2007-01-03, 09:26 PM   #39
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The interesting thing for me is how little they've messed with Prime's head it's streamlined but not as radically different as the others. I imagine it's too iconic, but if they could tweak his features in that way why couldn't he do the same to the other characters.
 
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Old 2007-01-03, 09:47 PM   #40
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I guess I should be thankfull, that bumblebee doesn't transform into Jar Jar binks .............although Scorponok is almost lookin the part............
 
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