The Transformers Archive Skip to main content / Also skip section headers

[The Transformers Archive - an international fan site]
Please feel free to log in or register.

 
  • transformers toys
  • transformers comics
  • transformers cartoon
  • transformers live-action movies
  • transformers fandom
  • transformers forum
Old 2007-03-27, 02:38 AM   #41
Clay
"I've done better and got over it."
 
Clay's Avatar
 
Murray, KY
Default

Waiting period for handguns is five days, I think... I dunno... I was still mad when I got it. There is no waiting period for rifles/shotguns (I assume because they're larger and much harder to hide).

Yeah, water guns are sometimes based on real guns, but they're completely neon. Sometimes pop-guns can be fairly realistic aside from the orange tip, though.

But, really, is it that big of a deal? I can understand people not wanting to get a Masterpiece Starscream because of the color choice, but with Megatron... it's a safety law. BBTS aren't adding an orange tip because they think it would be an aesthetic improvement.

Either paint the tip or lobby congress, but don't not buy the figure because the figure has to be modified because of something that's outside the scope of collecting transformers.
 
Clay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-03-27, 03:22 AM   #42
RID Scourge
Lurking
 
RID Scourge's Avatar
 
In ur newz forum. Reading ur newz!
Default

I thought the whole waiting period was so they could do a background check to make sure you've got no history of armed assault. Kinda defeats the purpose, if you don't have to wait on rifles and such.
 
RID Scourge is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-03-27, 03:45 AM   #43
ColdBain
Powermaster
 
ColdBain's Avatar
 
New Zealand
Default

Quote:
Originally posted by Clay
Either paint the tip or lobby congress, but don't not buy the figure because the figure has to be modified because of something that's outside the scope of collecting transformers.
I can certainly agree with that sentiment, but at the same time I don't think that applies to me over here :-). The toy won't even be locally released here, so the only choice I have is order it from overseas anyways. (I've probably mentioned this somewhere on this website before, but I have a Chinese friend who knows a guy back home who gets the majority of cool releases for me, he's the guy who got me my purple G1 Galvatron, etc).

I think the question I was edging towards when asking about toy guns laws in America was, if you were to order an unmodified MP Megatron, would the toy be investigated by customs? Would someone be at the airmail arrivals terminal, waiting for those sneaky MP Megatron orders without their orange tips attached?

I feel like people in America are being a little short-changed here, being forced to accept this version of the toy, but at the same time Clay does have a point, and I'd like to add another through the form of a question;
Has anyone yet seen a modified MP Megatron?

Certainly a little paint should resolve the situation, if one could the correct shade.
 
ColdBain is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-03-27, 04:10 AM   #44
Denyer
Shooty Dog Thing
 
Denyer's Avatar
 
UK
Default

Quote:
Originally posted by Clay
really, is it that big of a deal? I can understand people not wanting to get a Masterpiece Starscream because of the color choice, but with Megatron... it's a safety law.
Yes. Laws don't gain respect by being laws, but by serving the public good. These don't trust people with a piece of plastic inside their own homes, whilst trusting them with an actual firearm in the same place.

It's fair enough to prohibit waving (or carrying) guns or things that look like guns around in public. It's fair enough to shoot people who threaten others with what appear to be real weapons.

Civil disobedience.
 
Denyer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-03-27, 04:47 AM   #45
Clay
"I've done better and got over it."
 
Clay's Avatar
 
Murray, KY
Default

Quote:
Originally posted by Denyer
It's fair enough to prohibit waving (or carrying) guns or things that look like guns around in public. It's fair enough to shoot people who threaten others with what appear to be real weapons.
That's the point, though. The law deals with toy guns, which sometimes turn into robots that TF fans like, but are mostly just little pop guns made for kids to play cowboy or whatnot. They're not real weapons. The inclusion of the orange tips helps distinguish them from real guns instantly.

If a little kid is waving around a toy gun in front of a police officer, and the police officer makes a bad call, then you have a dead kid. If a little kid is waving around a toy gun with an orange tip, it's much less likely to end badly.

I assume a situation like that was the cause of the toy gun law getting passed to begin with. Of course, swimming pools cause the death of more children than anything else, but just because toy-gun-related child death or injury isn't a common occurance doesn't mean some incredibly simple safety measures shouldn't be in place.

edit:
Quote:
These don't trust people with a piece of plastic inside their own homes, whilst trusting them with an actual firearm in the same place.
The toy gun law doesn't regulate anything about private ownership - only at the point of sale. Whenever they're sold (i.e., in a store), they're supposed to have a blaze orange tip. After purchase, you can paint it whatever color you like. This is presumably at your own risk if the unlikely situation occurs that you do something to make someone that thinks it's real.

Anyway, the law does have merit. Even if only, say, two lives have been saved in the two decades since it has been passed (which is probably close to accurate), isn't that enough? It's not an oppressive or obtrusive law - it just provokes ire among toy collectors.
 

Last edited by Clay; 2007-03-27 at 05:16 AM.
Clay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-03-27, 06:20 AM   #46
dotCommunism
Seeker
 
Default

Quote:
Originally posted by Clay
It's not an oppressive or obtrusive law - it just provokes ire among toy collectors.
To be honest, I think that fact alone more than justifies the existence of toy gun laws.
 
dotCommunism is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-03-27, 06:26 AM   #47
Knightdramon
Primus
 
Knightdramon's Avatar
 
York, UK
Default

Irrelevant to gun laws, but he's out in Japan.

Hlj has the box dimensions and shipping costs ready, but still list him as March Release-this means he's ready for customers who pre-ordered him.
 

Few stuff in the UK to trade/sell. Measly sales thread.
Knightdramon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-03-27, 06:47 AM   #48
Tetsuro
One with the Matrix
 
Tetsuro's Avatar
 
Suomi Finland Perkele
Default

Personally I find attempts to prevent private citizens from importing this ludicrous. Why? Well it's completely unrealistic for one. I mean, who orders a hundred dollar toy all the way from Japan (or some other foreign country) just to hand it to a child?

Okay, let's assume that they don't hand it to a child, but still, the amount of intellect required to buy and pay for something like that online should be enough to also tell you not to wave a real-looking gun around in public.
 
Tetsuro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-03-27, 09:44 AM   #49
tahukanuva
Human After All
 
tahukanuva's Avatar
 
Tennessee, US
Default

Quote:
Originally posted by Tetsuro
Okay, let's assume that they don't hand it to a child, but still, the amount of intellect required to buy and pay for something like that online should be enough to also tell you not to wave a real-looking gun around in public.
Yeah, it takes a lot of intelect to type your address into a little box, totally proof that you're not going to make a bad decision or anything.

edit: of course I would spell "intellect" wrong.
 

Last edited by tahukanuva; 2007-03-27 at 10:31 AM.
tahukanuva is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-03-27, 09:53 AM   #50
Halfshell
Magical Truthsaying Turtle
 
Halfshell's Avatar
 
Don't complain to me. I don't care.
Default

Because we all know first-hand that the internet is the home of only the finest minds in society.

Is there a law against painting your real handgun orange?
 

Halfshell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-03-27, 10:07 AM   #51
Civ
News-"breaker"-in-Training
 
Civ's Avatar
 
Pennsylvania
Default

Quote:
Originally posted by Clay
But, really, is it that big of a deal?
No, unless you're one of the raving fanboys out there who seem to have a heart attack anytime there's a departure from what they consider "classic" but then again, who cares about them?

Quote:
I can understand people not wanting to get a Masterpiece Starscream because of the color choice
You're more understanding on this one than I am because I'm just baffled by it. I can't understand how people would want a garrish red, sky blue, and light gray color scheme over what was given and yeah, I've seen that over on TFW2005 in their customs section. Personal taste I guess, but sometimes I have to wonder...

Quote:
but with Megatron... it's a safety law. BBTS aren't adding an orange tip because they think it would be an aesthetic improvement.
Yep, they're doing this so they can sell the thing legally and try to profit from it. From what I understand, they didn't sell the reissue of...I think it was called TFC-06 because of the toy laws and missed out on a bunch of sales. If something happens and a kid ends up dead despite the orange tip, then that absolves BBTS from any misconduct since they followed the law.

Quote:
Either paint the tip or lobby congress, but don't not buy the figure because the figure has to be modified because of something that's outside the scope of collecting transformers.
Why not? If it can be understood that people don't want MP Starscream based on colors, then why can't they not buy an MP Megs based on an orange plug that they consider ugly even when it's required by law to buy/sell it? It's a matter of personal taste. If they don't want something they consider an eyesore and a toy that's not to their liking, why expect them to buy it? Why should they have to paint this if they don't want to?

Potentially awesome figure aside, if they don't want to go through the extra effort to paint the barrel or get any would-be repro barrels (like MP Prime's smokestacks), then that's on them. It leaves more for other people who want the figure and don't care about the cap. I wish the people who don't want the orange cap didn't bitch so much about it but their toy buying reasons are their own no matter how illogical they seem since it's their personal money they're spending.

Quote:
Originally posted by Brendocon
Is there a law against painting your real handgun orange?
I've honestly wondered about that. Also, I wonder if that happened yet.
 

Last edited by Civ; 2007-03-27 at 10:36 AM.
Civ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-03-27, 11:38 AM   #52
Tetsuro
One with the Matrix
 
Tetsuro's Avatar
 
Suomi Finland Perkele
Default

Quote:
Originally posted by tahukanuva
Yeah, it takes a lot of intelect to type your address into a little box, totally proof that you're not going to make a bad decision or anything.

edit: of course I would spell "intellect" wrong.
Well I did think of that also, but I decided to leave it for someone else to bring up so we could have a proper debate.

But yes, you're right. Considering how they seem to hand credit cards to even cats these days, it's hardly a wonder so many people fall for a credit card fraud. Just because they CAN buy something online, doesn't mean they'll know HOW to use it.
 
Tetsuro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-03-27, 07:52 PM   #53
Knightdramon
Primus
 
Knightdramon's Avatar
 
York, UK
Default

Once again irrelevant to the orange cap discussion you guys are having, but mine is processed for shipping at hlj.

Furthermore, they separated the item listings for MP 05 and MP 05 with modified orange cap. The first is set for mar. restock (first shipment gone to customers who pre-ordered) while the latter is slated for an April release.

Should have mine by Monday...
 

Few stuff in the UK to trade/sell. Measly sales thread.
Knightdramon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-03-27, 07:59 PM   #54
Halfshell
Magical Truthsaying Turtle
 
Halfshell's Avatar
 
Don't complain to me. I don't care.
Talking

Quote:
Originally posted by Knightdramon
mine is processed for shipping at hlj.
w00t mine too yay kthxbye
 

Halfshell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-03-27, 08:31 PM   #55
Denyer
Shooty Dog Thing
 
Denyer's Avatar
 
UK
Default

Quote:
Originally posted by Clay
It's not an oppressive or obtrusive law
Realistic prop handguns are permissible. BBTS sell them --

http://www.bigbadtoystore.com/bbts/p...93&mode=retail

This is simply a double standard about imported props and replicas. The law is doing nothing here to keep ~$100 range domestically-produced collectibles out of the hands of kids.

Quote:
Originally posted by Clay
Even if only, say, two lives have been saved in the two decades since it has been passed (which is probably close to accurate), isn't that enough?
It means America is four incompetent parents up, plus a truckload of police officials more likely to make poor judgement calls based on a flash of orange or its apparent absence.

There's also a strong probability any people shot whilst carrying toy guns since haven't entered public record, since that would be very embarrassing to whichever state forces were involved.
 
Denyer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-03-27, 10:41 PM   #56
Cliffjumper
Cellar Door
 
Cliffjumper's Avatar
 
Smile

Yeh, but you've got to kinda realise it's the law and it isn't going to change for some fancy-nancy Transformer. Sad, but true - it's like that bloke ages ago who had his reissue Megatron confiscated by (Dutch?) customs. Stupid law, but then there are lots of other stupid laws, and if you try to break them you have to be braced for authority's gnarled back hand... I dunno, I've always sympathised with the idea of a police officer forced to make a snap decision and take some lunatic waving a gun around down (let's say for the sake of argument he's using it to put the ****s up some bastard who bullied him at school). He accidentally kills the guy trying to prevent harm to others, and finds out the guy was just waving a replica. How's he going to feel?

How do you train someone to make that sort of call? Of course the most obvious course is to not let a lot of people have guns, but that isn't going to happen. People wanting an unaltered one will just have to find a source in Japan and run the customs gauntlet.

Quote:
Originally posted by Tetsuro
Well I did think of that also, but I decided to leave it for someone else to bring up so we could have a proper debate.
"It's not like anyone would be stupid enough to not look both ways before crossing the road"

"Actually, yes they would"

Might just be me, but that falls an incy-wincy bit short of a 'proper debate'. Must remember that one whenever I cock something up, though. Y'know all those errors people pointed out in the toy checklist I banged out? Done on purpose to cause a proper debate, oh yes they were.
 
Cliffjumper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-03-27, 10:53 PM   #57
another tf fan
I'm your freak-a-zoid
 
another tf fan's Avatar
 
USA
Default

Fancy Nancy?

Incy Wincy?

Thats a lot of rhyming in one post.

God help the @$$hole who brings an MP-05 to a gunfight.
 

Come on and wind me up.
another tf fan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-03-27, 10:59 PM   #58
ColdBain
Powermaster
 
ColdBain's Avatar
 
New Zealand
Default

It's all very odd the gun thing, cops over here don't carry them. If they were allowed to, I'm sure a lot of Dunedin University students would have bullet holes in their backsides by now. Over here they have a special unit in each police department called; 'The Armed Defender Squadron' (pretty neat name huh?), incase they need heavier means to difuse a situation.

Accidentally shooting a child because they thought they had a gun though... did the officer who pulled such a feat bother to say to the child first: "Excuse me son, but could you hand me that weapon?" Was it a case of shoot first, ask questions later? Honestly, I think the law's intent is in the right place, BUT it doesn't seem to do much amazing good, other than clear the way for police officers in urban situations. Makes it easier for them to know what not to shoot.

And then again, "what not to shoot"? Isn't that the law's purpose, to prevent any accidents? Maybe they should have asked why the police officer chose to shoot first in the first place, instead of trying to resolve the situation in a manner that did not threaten another person's life. Let's not forget all the other accidents that have happened since then with real guns in America.

I think the law is rather inpractical, but I can see the reason for it's existence. A Transformer Collectors piece should fall into a 'replica' category, surely. And most definately, shouldn't their be categories for such things anyway?
 
ColdBain is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-03-28, 03:15 AM   #59
Denyer
Shooty Dog Thing
 
Denyer's Avatar
 
UK
Default

As noted, you can buy unmarked replica and prop guns within the US.
Quote:
Originally posted by Cliffjumper
I've always sympathised with the idea of a police officer forced to make a snap decision and take some lunatic waving a gun around down (let's say for the sake of argument he's using it to put the ****s up some bastard who bullied him at school). He accidentally kills the guy trying to prevent harm to others, and finds out the guy was just waving a replica. How's he going to feel?
Justified in killing an idiot?

It's no different to threatening someone with a long knife that turns out to be a collapsible theatre prop.

Quote:
Originally posted by Cliffjumper
run the customs gauntlet.
Not much of a gauntlet, just don't buy from a retailer that's sending a whole bunch of them and/or is likely to mark the package as "retail goods; fairly convincing repro of the gun from The Man From UNCLE."

It's the double-standard that annoys, much like the practice of taking water bottles off people as they go into a festival so they can't be used as projectiles, then selling them water bottles on the other side of the gate.
 
Denyer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-03-28, 03:26 AM   #60
another tf fan
I'm your freak-a-zoid
 
another tf fan's Avatar
 
USA
Default

Quote:
Originally posted by Denyer
It's the double-standard that annoys, much like the practice of taking water bottles off people as they go into a festival so they can't be used as projectiles, then selling them water bottles on the other side of the gate.
Thats not a double standard, thats good business.
 

Come on and wind me up.
another tf fan is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 12:28 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
 
 
[the-hub.co.uk]
[transfans.co.uk]
[oneshallstand]
[unicron.com]
[counter-x.net]
[ntfa.net]
[allspark.com]
[transformertoys.co.uk]
[tfu.info]
[botchthecrab.com]
[obscure_tf]
[tfradio.net]
 

[TFArchive button]
Link graphics...

BOOKMARK US
Or in FF, hit Ctrl+D.