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Old 2007-03-23, 08:28 PM   #61
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Cyclonus would do well as a titanium partner to Titanium Scourge.

Cliffjumper had made a point somewhere along the way about Ironhide and Ratchet being unique robots and to make them cartoon acurate would make them bland. I disagree and really hope to have Classics versions with heads. More modern alt modes would be fine with me, but I have to agree with the folks who want a redux of these iconic characters.
 

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Old 2007-03-23, 10:01 PM   #62
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Quote:
Originally posted by TFVanguard
You have to admit, with some exceptions, once you're past the movie, there just AIN'T a lot of 'fan favorites' left for G1.
And most of 'em are just that, fan favourites. Thunderwing, Bludgeon, Nightbeat, Guzzle, Fort Max, Sky Lynx, Carnivac, Dreadwind/Darkwing etc. might be well-liked characters within fandom (though why anyone could like Fort Max for much beyond insecurity reason is beyond me...), but whether they'd have that "Hey, I remember that guy from when I was a kid!" factor that's undoubtedly helped Classics' sales so far is another matter... It's a nice dream, for sure, but claiming there's a market for it is the sort of blinkered stuff that makes companies ignore fans...

EDIT: Skipped your response there sorry another tf fan... I like the original toys, I'm not going to squirm out of that (let's not forget I'm the chap with all the Super Gobots, though - my biggest problem with people wanting Ratchet/Ironhide redone is they tend to want them like they were in the cartoon - very bland robots. I'd be all for, however, a Classics use of, say, the Infiltration models... A good look for Ratchet, I've always thought, would be something a bit like the Robo Machines SOS figure: - http://www.toyarchive.com/STAForSale...mbulance1b.jpg
Obviously with all the ball-joints and a bit of refinement (that thing's about the size of First Aid), but more for a rough "this goes here" example.

EDIT II: Looking at it, that is basically the Infiltration model, though, isn't it?
 

Last edited by Cliffjumper; 2007-03-23 at 10:08 PM.
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Old 2007-03-23, 10:27 PM   #63
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You can do it if you mix them up, or reuse existing molds to make the more 'obscure' fan favorites. Dreadwing could be a Jetfire repaint, for instance (say he's the G2 version). Nightbeat would be a good redeco/remodel of the Cybertron Downshift figure (with someone else's head). Bludgeon already has precedent to redeco the 'action battle' Classics Tank Megatron.

But, I'll agree that a dedicated mold to, say, Alpha Trion, wouldn't exactly make a lot of sense.

As for Ironhide and Ratchet... I still think that a PROPER remold and clean up of Energon Towline would have been spot-on. BotCon was CLOSE, but they needed better aps and some more mold tweaks.
 
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Old 2007-03-23, 10:50 PM   #64
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Yeh, I think recolours/remoulds hold the immediate-ish future for the line... if Hasbro could get the numbers made right, it could really work for them. But seeing new moulds for a lot of people is probably out of the question... I'd be happy to see a more conventional Ironhide (with a remould as Ratchet), Dirge (from Ramjet), Thundercracker (from Starscream), Wheeljack (a slight touch-up on Energon Downshift), mabye a new "Datsun" mould (they can get three out of that without even trying... a remould could maybe even get a Jazz out of it), and maybe even the obvious one they keep missing, Hero Megs in the original colours (even though we've already had a Megs...)... there's the bare bones of another feasible new wave there (2 new moulds, rest repaints). Release I contradicted myself - even realists dream from time to time...

I think, though, Hasbro may have one eye on Commemorative Series sales, and note how quickly they seem to drop off once the "biggies" are out... The Japanese reissues only really cost them fan sales, whereas most nostalgia trippers would have seemed to have demonstrated limited interest in the likes of Prowl and Tracks... Sadly, you quickly run out of characters that are really remembered by the average 20-30 year old after a quick jab of yesteryear, and Hasbro have used most of the bankers (Prime, Megs, Hot Rod, Grimlock, Starscream, Bumblebee)...
 
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Old 2007-03-23, 11:09 PM   #65
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The last thing I want from the Classics line is re-decos of previous toys. The Energon Devy re-color is on my buy list only because I never got the first one.

Energon Downshift is great as "Wheeljack" and I am not in favor of a re-color w/new head for Nightbeat. Likewise I consider Cybertron Smokescreen a "classics" figure and wouldn't want a Bluestreak/Prowl made out of him.

There are just a few more new moulds I really want. The aformentioned Ironhide/Ratchet and a Prowl are musts. A few post movie figures like Springer and Kup would be great. But in the end I see no real market for any Classics versions of anything after the 1986 line-up.

There are many toys that could be re-done: Blitzwing, Galvatron, Jazz and Sideswipe would all be popular with the fans. I would love more show acurate minibots too. What I want and what Hasbro really think will sell are two different things. (Frankly I'm shocked we got a Ramjet)

This is all a pipe dream. Hasbro has been pretty clear that Classics is just a filler line. Rumors of more Classics after the movie are highly unlikely. Hasbro has shown us it has no problem killing off a popular line. (Alternators I'm looking at you!)

The most frustrating thing about Classics is it is everything 80's fans have wanted. Hasbro repeatedly has made bad choices about Transformers since the 1986 movie. They screwed with the formula like New Coke and took 20 years to switch back to classic Coke. I maintain that the realistic alt modes were the cause of the lines early success. It all went downhill with the death of Optimus and the futuristic cars of the movie.

It's all moot. Transformers is moving in a new direction with the new movie and it's probably for the best. Long time fans can shed the die cast skin and embrace a reboot of the franchise that once again features real alt modes.
 

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Old 2007-03-23, 11:41 PM   #66
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Quote:
Originally posted by Cliffjumper
I think, though, Hasbro may have one eye on Commemorative Series sales, and note how quickly they seem to drop off once the "biggies" are out... The Japanese reissues only really cost them fan sales, whereas most nostalgia trippers would have seemed to have demonstrated limited interest in the likes of Prowl and Tracks...
I always thought Prowl was fairly popular?

Post movie, excluding Hun-Gurr, I can think of very few Classics toys I would like to see (a couple of Headmasters and Targetmasters and that's about it). Pre-Movie and Movie, though, while it wouldn't be feasible, I can think of plenty.

Stupid reality.

Quote:
Jazz and Sideswipe
Despite my love for Jazz and, to a much lesser extent, Sideswipe, I'd rather see characters like Sunstreaker or Wheeljack getting a classics release first. Hasbro really surprised me by choosing characters like Astrotrain and Ramjet. I'd love to see more choices like that.
 

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Last edited by Gouki; 2007-03-23 at 11:46 PM.
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Old 2007-03-23, 11:48 PM   #67
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Quote:
Originally posted by Gouki
I always thought Prowl was fairly popular?
Fairly probably being the operative word... I dunno, I'd be surprised if many casual fans remembered him without something like "first toy" status - he's pretty faceless in the cartoon, and the earlier comics (i.e. when people still bought the thing). That said, they did go back to him as early as 1990.

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Stupid reality.
Seconded
 
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Old 2007-03-24, 12:09 AM   #68
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Quote:
Originally posted by Cliffjumper
... I dunno, I'd be surprised if many casual fans remembered him without something like "first toy" status -
Christ Cliffy, thats exactly why I have love for Prowl. He didn't get the screen time i think he deserved in the cartoon.

There a a ton of Minibots that cry out for a classics update:
Brawn/Outback
Gears/Swerve
Warpath
Windcharger/Tailgate
Huffer/Pipes
Powerglide
Beachcomber
Seaspray

These characters for the most part got lots of screen time but had lousy toys. The Best example is Brawn, who was integral to many episodes, yet his toy was barely playable. I only included the repaints because they could flesh out the line and Hasbro couldn't help themselves.

I saw the Cosmos a while back and it was quite impressive, but I would rather have a show acurate Brawn ove Cosmos.
 

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Old 2007-03-24, 12:22 AM   #69
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Quote:
Originally posted by RID Scourge
If they didn't want to dedicate a new mold to him, they could even get a nice voyager with a slight retool of the smaller Energon Megs.
If he was to be made of a redeco, I'd rather he was a redeco of BM Jetstorm deluxe, partly because I like the look of the Botcon one, and also because I really like the mold. And he wouldn't look like a small, winged Galvatron.

The thing about the post-movie designs is that a lot of them would be unfeasable as toys anyway, like Bludgeon for instance. I really don't expect Hasbro to make a new pretender, nor do I want one. The best we could hope for is something like a redeco of Cyb Unicron.
 
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Old 2007-03-24, 03:41 AM   #70
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I dunno. The deluxe Jetstorm is half-decent, but they really killed the mold dead by releasing it twice in Beast Machines, Twice in RID and once again in Universe. Since it hasn't been seen in a while, I'm kinda hoping they put that one to bed, for a good, long time.

Though, thinking about it, you're right with your point on the redeco on Megs. With all the remolding they'd have to do to get him to look similar to his original counterpart, I guess they'd probably just say "Screw it, we might as well just produce a new mold for him," so unless they were dead set on releasing him, we probably wouldn't find him in the line.
 
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Old 2007-03-24, 03:43 AM   #71
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Quote:
Originally posted by Cliffjumper
And most of 'em are just that, fan favourites. Thunderwing, Bludgeon, Nightbeat, Guzzle, Fort Max, Sky Lynx, Carnivac, Dreadwind/Darkwing etc. might be well-liked characters within fandom (though why anyone could like Fort Max for much beyond insecurity reason is beyond me...), but whether they'd have that "Hey, I remember that guy from when I was a kid!" factor that's undoubtedly helped Classics' sales so far is another matter...
Personally, the only post-Movie character I'd peg as a good seller would be Scorponok, and that's as much because of his BW and Energon incarnations as anything else. Fort Max might get some recognition just because his toy was so bloody huge, but I don't see a new Fort Max being big enough to take advantage of that.

It's not a coincidence that all of the characters who've been Classicified so far had high-visibility roles in the Movie and/or Season 1, and we'd be silly if we expected to see too many characters who didn't meet that criteria in any hypothetical extended Classics line.

That said, I demand a Classics Spinister.

Quote:
Originally posted by tahukanuva
The thing about the post-movie designs is that a lot of them would be unfeasable as toys anyway, like Bludgeon for instance. I really don't expect Hasbro to make a new pretender, nor do I want one. The best we could hope for is something like a redeco of Cyb Unicron.
I'd actually like to see what Hasbro could do with the Pretender concept and modern toy technology, but I can understand why a lot of people wouldn't like that. There's no reason a new Bludgeon would have to be one, though...a design like the one from Stormbringer would carry off the character pretty well, IMO.

Most of the other important post-Movie guys wouldn't be too hard to design, actually. If they discard the Nebulans (which not many people actually like anyway) Nightbeat, Spinister and most of the other -Masters could work well enough as regular vehicles. Thunderwing and Carnivac are the only other Pretenders that matter, and they're both known almost exclusively by their shell and inner robot respectively, so there's really no reason for them to be Pretenders at all. Scorponok's been done several times, there's no way in hell they'd ever try a new Sixshot or Fort Max, and no one gives a damn about anyone else.

Of course, the only one out of those that we've got even a remote chance of seeing is Scorponok, so it doesn't make all that much difference.
 
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Old 2007-03-24, 04:07 AM   #72
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Quote:
Originally posted by Warcry
There's no reason a new Bludgeon would have to be one, though...a design like the one from Stormbringer would carry off the character pretty well, IMO.
But when most people (who know who Bludgeon is) think of Bludgeon, they think of orange skull-faced samurai, not green jawless tank.

Of course, I'd rather see the inner 'bot then another sh!t combination of the two ala RiD.
 
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Old 2007-03-24, 07:05 AM   #73
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This may be a bit off topic, but with all the talk of repaints I couldn't help but think of how good Classics Prime would look repainted as a Nemesis Prime for that mold..... just thought I'd throw that out there while everyone else was having pipe dreams.
 

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Old 2007-03-24, 07:26 AM   #74
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I have read a few posters wishing for a Nemmy Prime repaint of CL Prime. Apparently many seem to think it is a "prime" candidate.

Not me though, with the exclusion of RiD Scourge I don't go in for the Black Convoy re-decos.
 

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Old 2007-03-24, 04:05 PM   #75
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Actually, if they re-released Destructicon Scourge as a 'Classics' figure, I would be pretty happy with that. It's the right size, and is a figure that's not automatically associated with a Prime incarnation. (He is one, but 'Hero' prime is one of the oft-forgotten ones)

Anyway, I don't think Alternators or Commemorative lines failed due to 'running out of big names', they failed for different reasons.

Alternators were very complex toys, with high licensing costs, and some VERY bizzare choices at the end of the run (Decepticharge?). At the end of the day, you can't really PLAY with the figures, and transforming them was often a royal pain in the ass. There's only so many display pieces fan's going to get at $20 a pop.

Commemorative failed due to it's spectacularly high price. As a G1 nostalgic fan, even I balked at the prices of Prowl, Starscream, etc. These were my favorite characters, but they're so expensive that I gave them a pass.

Classics, for its part, avoided both of the above situations.
 
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Old 2007-03-24, 05:06 PM   #76
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Quote:
At the end of the day, you can't really PLAY with the figures, and transforming them was often a royal pain in the ass. There's only so many display pieces fan's going to get at $20 a pop.
Hey, I'd have a lot more Alternators if they were $20 (10quid) a go in the UK... But I realise there's a currency difference.

And I do play with them!

It is a pitty how limited Alternators have been in the cars they've portrayed (due to time and licencing issues no doubt). Same goes for names, lol!

I am very happy with the latest release, of Alt. Ravage (2), and I love Alt. Prime. But, with the rebirth of mainline TFs as real cars coming (with the Movie line), I suppose I'll cope...

As to Classics - there are loads of G1 and G2 figures that would be great to see reimagined. Ironhide is no doubt one for me, but I'll live without. It's a pitty it's just a filler line with no new fiction to support sales of more obscure characters (although, I don't remember many of these Minicons in G1 or G2 - do they sell as fan faves? Hey, I just love Minicons myself...). A few updated Triple Changers would be nice, but there are so many chaps to choose from, Hasbro could never please us all at a fan level... Still, I harbour the secret hope that if Classics die now, they'll reappear in the future!

(Oh, and I agree - Hero Prime is great. It's just a shame the final painted and stickered look is rather poor, in my opinion. Megs was far better. )
 


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Old 2007-03-24, 06:15 PM   #77
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Quote:
Originally posted by TFVanguard
Alternators were very complex toys, with high licensing costs, and some VERY bizzare choices at the end of the run (Decepticharge?). At the end of the day, you can't really PLAY with the figures, and transforming them was often a royal pain in the ass. There's only so many display pieces fan's going to get at $20 a pop.
I think it's a bit more complicated than that. The first Alternators were very well done, well thought out versions of older characters, reborn in modern forms. A lot of the guys they chose were fairly obscure even in the beginning...I mean, they led off the line with Smokescreen, who's hardly an A-lister. But the line still sold fairly well, even though, yeah, they weren't that great as toys.

Later on, though, the designs weren't thought out as well. Look at Rollbar or Camshaft or Swerve and you'll be hard-pressed to find much that hearkens back to their original designs. The quality dropped off significantly, and that's where the line fell apart for me. They'd stopped trying to make thoughtful reimaginings of old characters that turn into modern vehicles and just started slapping random names onto totally unrelated figures, and that's always going to be the death knell for any line with a target market so heavily skewed toward older collectors.

I'd feel the same way about Classics if Hasbro had made, I dunno, a straight repaint of Rodimus in blue and yellow with the name 'Nightbeat' tacked onto it, or something. A homage toyline requires quite a bit more effort to be successful than a mass-market line like Cybertron would, IMO.
 

Last edited by Warcry; 2007-03-24 at 06:18 PM.
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Old 2007-03-24, 06:43 PM   #78
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Quote:
Originally posted by another tf fan
I have read a few posters wishing for a Nemmy Prime repaint of CL Prime. Apparently many seem to think it is a "prime" candidate.


Yeah, it actually funny. I was satisfied with the ones I had--until I got the Classics Magnus vs Skywarp pack. It became my favorite Prime mold, and I realized it would probably be my favorite NP, if they were to repaint this mold in his colors.

I'd almost love to see him in a two-pack with Thrust because of the BT story, where it leads the reader to believe that NP contains the spark of Unicron and because of Armada Thrust's connections with Unicron. I think it'd be a really cool theme if they had the whole "resurrected Unicron, recruiting Thrust as a liason" angle.
 
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Old 2007-03-26, 01:53 AM   #79
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Classics Megatron is an example of how a horrid color scheme can almost ruin an otherwise outstanding figure.

Yes, I know that's a random statement not related to the current discussion.

Sue me.
 
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Old 2007-05-10, 09:52 PM   #80
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I know that one of the few that id really love to see redone would be the G2 metallic-blue Ford truck known as Motormouth since he was my first transformer and i was so unfortunate to lose him.


And im sorry for not being more often here in 2006.. ive had busy schoolwork and hobbies to attend to.
 
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