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Old 2007-05-19, 10:53 AM   #61
Denyer
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Quote:
Originally posted by TURBO CHARGER
by definition
M-E-T-A-P-H-O-R?

As in "despite huge amounts of money being spent on a film, it has wooden acting, casting clichés (hot female geek, clumsy geek played for laughs trying to get hot female geek, kid there just to look cute, bolted-on teen romance) and lots of cheese factor."

Godzilla, for instance, is a b-movie with a budget. Apart from French Bloke, who's the best thing in it...

Quote:
Originally posted by TURBO CHARGER
I might be wrong, but I think most of us in this fandom got into TF with the original cartoon series from the 80's.
No, and most people from the UK will probably say the same -- it wasn't shown over here much, and a lot of us tend to cringe at it because even then there was something better-written available.

I'm not really interested in nostalgia. Some of the original toys are good engineering for their day, and a few of the old comics rose above what the toy marketing they were being sold as. Given the choice between old and new stuff, I'd much rather have Binalts / new comics / "big" fan-written things like ~500 page novels.

Mostly I'd like to see Transformers as "real" science fiction / modern fantasy (anywhere on the scale from Trek to Asimov.) Gimmicks such as "the Allspark brings your VCR/camera/etc to life" don't help that.
 
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Old 2007-05-19, 11:33 AM   #62
inflatable dalek
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Quote:
Originally posted by Denyer
HHGTTG had me excited in anticipation (and delivered.)
It would have been so much better if Ford, and suprisingly perhaps , Arthur hadn't been so misscast.
 
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Old 2007-05-19, 12:43 PM   #63
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Originally posted by zigzagger
Not to add further salt to the wound, but there's a small chance it might premier a day sooner.
Well if it takes one more day to have an even larger gross for the first week...

that's gonna be tough not to talk about, though.
 
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Old 2007-05-19, 12:48 PM   #64
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Slightly newer trailer...

Say about 99% old stuff, but we do get new shots of Frenzy, a shot of Scorponok being ejected from Blackout, and Spike talking with Prime from his second floor bedroom window.

All in handicam-compressed-down-to-YouTube quality (read: lousy at best).


I go to Seibertron.com, and so should you.

http://www.seibertron.com/news/view.php?id=10360
 

Last edited by trilobitepictures; 2007-05-19 at 12:51 PM.
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Old 2007-05-19, 12:57 PM   #65
zigzagger
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Quote:
Originally posted by Ackula
....least bit optimistic or excited of the fact that our fandom is getting a major push into the mainstream again.
Huh, really? And here I thought the more hardcore fans were afraid of having their beloved (and private) hobby made public on a much, much, larger scale.
 
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Old 2007-05-19, 01:02 PM   #66
redman prime
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Thumbs up

picture quality.. not so much, but still newer stuff.

good find.
 
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Old 2007-05-19, 03:41 PM   #67
Jaynz
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Copying this over...

Quote:
Saw Shrek with the family last night, and a good time was had by all.

The thing about the TF trailer that got me is that very little of it was actually recieved well by the audience EXCEPT the initial joke from Spike's dad. "Yeah, I'm kidding. I'm not getting you a Porsche!" That got a bunch of laughs.

When the Autobot symbol on the dash was shown, though, there were a lot of groans from the audience. That actually really surprised me.

Prime's transformation seemed to confuse the crowd more than anything. I'm not really sure how to measure that. It could really be that people just aren't recognizing him as Prime.

The trailer plugged the 'government conspiracy' plot more than most... which I don't think went over well. (This was very much a family audience, after all, a LOT of kids). ... There wasn't much reaction to Megatron's reveal. (This is very much a 'government' town... portraying the government in a bad light AGAIN doesn't sit well here).

The "Japanese" line got some... unpleasant reaction from the crowd.

The final "My mom's got a temper!" got laughs, though.

Also, for me, there are a LOT of scenes were the robots were clearly NOT part of the 'shot', as it were. They looked like game sprites super-imposed onto regular video-footage. The artists need to look into shadows and realistic lighting. Not all metal is chrome, after all.

Overall, tough call. If you're excited by the film already, this likely whet your appetite a bit more. If you're not, there's nothing here to sway you. If you just don't care, there's nothing here to get you to spend money on it. :S

 
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Old 2007-05-19, 04:50 PM   #68
Denyer
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Quote:
Originally posted by inflatable dalek
It would have been so much better if Ford, and suprisingly perhaps , Arthur hadn't been so misscast.
I didn't mind Mos Def (very different to David Dixon, who in turn was quite different to Geoffrey McGivern) but the script/editing pushed Ford into the background too much.

Quote:
Originally posted by zigzagger
here I thought the more hardcore fans were afraid of having their beloved (and private) hobby made public on a much, much, larger scale.
Not sure why either. We were here ten years ago, some of us'll be around in some form in another ten. And we've already done the "Grimlock waz bilt on earth, hwo can be in new comics??" influx and variants on a smaller scale. This is more of the same -- it's not that radical a re-imagining; the robots look a bit different and are on screen less with fewer lines. It isn't the promised "we made changes and look how more realistic it is." We're getting a popcorn flick that'll probably be closer to Terminator 3 than Terminator 2.

(Plus the die-hards won't have even to change their "I liked Transformers before it got rubbish" spiels that they've been using since 1995.)

Quote:
very much a 'government' town
Weird that such things even exist. Everywhere else, whoever's in power is de facto the group screwing you over most.

Quote:
there are a LOT of scenes were the robots were clearly NOT part of the 'shot'
Only stood out towards the end, IMO.

Quote:
recieved well by the audience
Who are these audiences who actually respond to the trailers? Maybe I'm just not watching many films with kids in the crowd...
 
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Old 2007-05-19, 05:53 PM   #69
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(Plus the die-hards won't even have to change their "I liked Transformers before it got rubbish" spiels that they've been using since 1995.)
Eh, that's a silly argument to make. Transformers is a lot of ways like Star Trek. It's a big franchise, plenty of stuff for people to pick and choose from. I think Hasbro is starting to get that idea, which is why we're seeing Titaniums, Robot Heroes, and - to a lesser extent - Classics itself.

Quote:
Weird that such things even exist. Everywhere else, whoever's in power is de facto the group screwing you over most.
We've got abuot eight major military bases in this town, not the least of which are the Air Force Academy and NORAD.

Quote:
Only stood out towards the end, IMO.
I tend to notice details on CGI at even a casual glance. I'm just that used to the detail and work after being a part of it. The only really bad shot was the 'man on lazy-boy' reveal.

Quote:
Who are these audiences who actually respond to the trailers? Maybe I'm just not watching many films with kids in the crowd...
This crowd was mostly families and HS teenagers. What was really wierd, though, was the amount of laughs and applause for Mister Bean. Judging by the crowd reaction, that and Simpsons are going to be major hits.
 
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Old 2007-05-19, 06:51 PM   #70
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Quote:
Originally posted by zigzagger
Huh, really? And here I thought the more hardcore fans were afraid of having their beloved (and private) hobby made public on a much, much, larger scale.
Yeah I know there are people like that, but I don't get it. Why people feel that way towards anything is odd to me, be it music or movies or any type of hobby. Seems like people would want it on a larger scale because that means more merchandise and media available.

And I suppose denyer may be correct about the UK fans....But I still think the majority as a whole were introduced to TF from the G1 cartoon.
 
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Old 2007-05-19, 08:51 PM   #71
Denyer
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Seems like people would want it on a larger scale because that means more merchandise and media available.
Only worthwhile if the stuff's good/appealing. Forty-five channels showing American Gladiators isn't an improvement if you fancy Diane Youdale, really.

Quote:
Eh, that's a silly argument to make.
It isn't an argument. It's something dullards have been mouthing for twelve years, neglecting to notice that there's still stuff -- both official and unofficial -- being produced around a core original cast...

Quote:
applause for Mister Bean.
...

I'm voting in favour of nukes and a future generation can retake the continent.
 
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Old 2007-05-19, 09:10 PM   #72
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It isn't an argument. It's something dullards have been mouthing for twelve years, neglecting to notice that there's still stuff -- both official and unofficial -- being produced around a core original cast...
You know, I hear that cited a LOT, but I don't actually know of many people (outside of a very vocal few) that are demanding everything go back to 1984 all the time. Often I see the kneejer reaction of 'you just want everything G1' MUCH sooner on any criticism than actually see someone actually wanting to go back completely to G1.

Quote:
I'm voting in favour of nukes and a future generation can retake the continent.
The preview was okay. I dunno, I've seen a lot of Mr Bean, and never quite got why it was popular - nevermind being considered more popular than Black Adder.
 
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Old 2007-05-19, 09:45 PM   #73
Denyer
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Quote:
Originally posted by TFVanguard
I don't actually know of many people (outside of a very vocal few) that are demanding everything go back to 1984 all the time.
They're around, same as those who want an official continuation of US G2. I've been avoiding movie discussion on most boards since the first few months because I value the veins in my forehead.

Commonest situation is "relative quality" -- compare original episodes and, say, RiD... which isn't a hard or particularly unfair comparison to make; RiD isn't exactly intended as anything other than knockaround fun aimed at a particularly young audience. It's the step that takes a comparative assessment of quality and comes up with one or the other being that ever-objective quality, 'good', that's where we move along to Bedlam Asylum in the 18th century.

I mean, I love Transformers the Movie. It isn't by any reasonable criteria a good film -- minimal introductions for any characters, half the cast written out in the first act, a big but "ancient" threat that's not explained in the context, nor is the resolution to the threat, etc. It is what it is, a thinly-covered enforced "die-out".

Similarly, most of the UK comic is good by comparison with the US one. (And's fairly significant in the context of British comics production, on a tangent... but it's still chock full of holes.) Talking about it with people who understand the conditions it was made in is fun. Talking about it with people who think it's the best thing since sliced bread is a bit scary.

Not such an issue as it was five years ago, mind.
 
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Old 2007-05-19, 09:55 PM   #74
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Quote:
Originally posted by TFVanguard
Copying this over...
Why did you go through the effort of pasting this here? Appeal to popular opinion is an ignoratio elenchi. Was the trailer any good? --that is the question. Whether popular audiences think so is beside the point.
 
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Old 2007-05-19, 10:01 PM   #75
Jaynz
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Quote:
Originally posted by Denyer
[B]They're around, same as those who want an official continuation of US G2. I've been avoiding movie discussion on most boards since the first few months because I value the veins in my forehead.
I actually don't frequent too many TF boards anymore (wait for snarky comment from Auros here), but it's really more due to a growing lack of commonality with fans than anything.

My oldest girl is leaving her high school sophomore year, a situation that really takes you out of the mindset of 'perpetual college years'. It's hard to want to live a college lifestyle when your DAUGHTER is getting close to living it.

Quote:
RiD isn't exactly intended as anything other than knockaround fun aimed at a particularly young audience. It's the step that takes a comparative assessment of quality and comes up with one or the other being that ever-objective quality, 'good', that's where we move along to Bedlam Asylum in the 18th century.
RID was silly fun, and was always intended as such. I think they did a good job to tone it down for the US/UK and make it a fairly solid cartoon overall. But if you're expecting Beast Wars... At any rate, I'm sometimes surprised that Sideburn and Scourge aren't getting more recognition/love from Hasbro these days.

Quote:
I mean, I love Transformers the Movie. It isn't by any reasonable criteria a good film -- minimal introductions for any characters, half the cast written out in the first act, a big but "ancient" threat that's not explained in the context, nor is the resolution to the threat, etc. It is what it is, a thinly-covered enforced "die-out".
TF:TM is guilty fun. It is a B-movie in all but the literal sense (there ARE no literal B-movies made anymore), but sometimes you want to kick back for 90 minutes and enjoy the ride. Certainly nothing wrong with that.

The new TF movie, I think, suffers from not really realizing what it is.
In that way it seems to be following Godzilla and ID4's footsteps exactly... That's okay to do when you don't have a lot of competition to compare it with, but this summer has a LOT of big movies to contend with.
 
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Old 2007-05-19, 10:02 PM   #76
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Quote:
Originally posted by Apriorion
Why did you go through the effort of pasting this here? Appeal to popular opinion is an ignoratio elenchi. Was the trailer any good? --that is the question. Whether popular audiences think so is beside the point.
Because I thought it was a bit off-topic for the Shrek thread and made more sense here?
 
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Old 2007-05-19, 10:11 PM   #77
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Hm. I might have to take inspiration from Takhuanuva's motto re: Dalek and start an "I agree with Denyer" one. Among the things here:

Mr. Bean. If that's the way they feel about it, remind me to avoid Colorado Springs (Oh, and I did notice the reply, TF Vanguard, about Hollywood caring; maybe, though that isn't entirely the impression that "Bulworth" creates )

The American "Godzilla" (or, as a Godzilla fan magazine calls the creature, "GINO"). Definitely a "popcorn movie" - and not a good one - a B-type action movie with an A-budget. Which is the impression I'm getting of the new TF movie... Hopefully it'll be higher quality than the "GINO" film. (Be hard-pressed not to be.)

X2 being a marked improvement on the first X-Men

And, while I'm at it:

That the concept of a "hell" seems incompatible with the concept of a benevolent God.

And, that Celebrity Skin is a very good album (getting caught up from weeks ago now).

Not that that's all that I agree on, but these are what come to mind at the moment
 
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Old 2007-05-19, 10:24 PM   #78
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Mr. Bean. If that's the way they feel about it, remind me to avoid Colorado Springs
In all fairness, the preview trailer for Mr Bean was actually fairly decent. If I didn't know about Mr Bean previously, I would have thought it a decent 'dumb' comedy otherwise. (And these were largley teenagers we're talking abuot anyway)

Quote:
The American "Godzilla" (or, as a Godzilla fan magazine calls the creature, "GINO"). Definitely a "popcorn movie" - and not a good one - a B-type action movie with an A-budget. Which is the impression I'm getting of the new TF movie... Hopefully it'll be higher quality than the "GINO" film. (Be hard-pressed not to be.)
That's what I've been worried about with TFs as well. It's not being MADE as a B-level movie.. and it likely should have been. If they had 'The French Guy' from Godzilla in this movie, though...

Quote:
That the concept of a "hell" seems incompatible with the concept of a benevolent God.
The concept of 'hell' is a human invention anyway. The tradition is taken from Greco/Roman myth. (This is a fact not lost on either Milton or Dante). Revelations is the only place where 'hell' as we know it makes an appearance, and there's TONS of evidence to show that Revelations is not authentic.
 
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Old 2007-05-19, 10:29 PM   #79
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Quote:
Originally posted by TFVanguard
there ARE no literal B-movies made anymore
Sure there are. They don't get to cinemas much unless you're in a university area. People just like nailing things into the framework of decades and eras.

Good place to start:
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0217331/
http://www.thezreview.co.uk/reviews/c/conventthe.htm

Quote:
Originally posted by LKW
Hopefully it'll be higher quality than the "GINO" film. (Be hard-pressed not to be.)
I was waiting so long for that Green Day remix to kick in.
 
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Old 2007-05-19, 10:34 PM   #80
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Sure there are. They don't get to cinemas much unless you're in a university area. People just like nailing things into the framework of decades and eras.
I wasn't aware of any films being made specifically to act as 'warm up' light fare for matinees or anything - at least not in the states. It's a pity, because the 'spend a day at the movies and arcade' pastime was a good one.

Actually, I take it back, the Grindhouse twin-set qualifies, now that I think on it.
 
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