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Old 2007-07-07, 05:26 PM   #1
optimusbaybee
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Question 2007 movie relates optimus prime and megatron

I saw the tf movies and when megatron dies Oaptimus Prime says something like "sorry it had to end this way Brother" I cant tell if he ment it like his actual brother or not but thats what it seemed like!
 

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Old 2007-07-07, 06:05 PM   #2
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.........
I feared this would happen following the movie's release.
Sorry, this isn't news.
Into the 2007 Movie forum you go!
 
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Old 2007-07-07, 09:58 PM   #3
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I think Prime has been around long enough to remember the times before the war began and could view the Decepticons as friends and "brothers". However I don't think he was being literal in calling Megatron his actual brother.
 
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Old 2007-07-08, 02:02 AM   #4
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The possibility that Megatron is in fact his brother is not far fetched, the heartfelt and serious line "I am sorry brother..." could be actual brotherhood and would explain their similar strength and would explain why Megatron doesn't kill Optimus when he has the chance and why there is so much dialogue between about their choices when they are engaged in combat.

 

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Old 2007-07-08, 06:51 AM   #5
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In the movie, which is actually an interpretation of the writers barely extrapolated from Transformers saga, and NOT a literal translation from the original series, it is clear that Megatron and Optimus Prime are brothers.

Further confirmation can be found on the Movie Prequel comic where it says in the first few pages that Optimus Prime and Megatron were ruling together over Cybertron, Prime being the fair and just and Megatron being the firm.

What is not clear is what "corrupted" Megatron in such way as to turn him against his brother and wanting to take over the planet.

Some clues could be in the way the "Allspark" (perhaps some kind of primordial matrix? Or perhaps Primus itself?), affected Megatron and "called him", as he stated in several instances in the course of the story.
 

"Freedom is the right of all sentient beings" response by Megatron: "Bite my shiny metal ass!"
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Old 2007-07-08, 07:17 AM   #6
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In the "leaked" script, Prime called Megatron his brother multiple times, and Ratchet even asks him "Will you be able to kill your own brother". I'm glad they got rid of all those references and made it a lot more subtle (probably due to poor fan reaction). I want to believe he calls him brother out of respect form him, and because they both ruled cybertron together. But anyway, you can say all transformers are brothers, since they all come from the allspark.
 

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Old 2007-07-08, 06:57 PM   #7
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I haven't had a chance to catch any of the prequel bits yet, but by the way the Allspark is represented in creating Cybertronian life wouldn't all Transformers of the same generation essentially be brothers? Prime and Megs are of the same general stature in society and made by the same force. Brother is a close enough call for that relationship. Maybe I am wrong and in this Transformers world they all have parents and siblings in the same way soft little fleshlings do.
 
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Old 2007-07-08, 09:12 PM   #8
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From the prequel comic there are some things that suggest that the Allspark was the primordial Spark of life from where all sentient machines spawned from, but it doesn't suggest that for every new Transformer. Also every Transformer has its own Spark which i can only assume is given to every new born from a supposed parent, otherwise it wouldn't make sense to have each its own Spark. Perhaps the Spark is also what's needed to Transformers for procreation?

I feel so geeky right now and i'm loving every micro-second of it.
 

"Freedom is the right of all sentient beings" response by Megatron: "Bite my shiny metal ass!"
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Old 2007-07-09, 01:53 AM   #9
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Would that imply that two parental figures would bond their sparks together in a form of procreation to create a spark that would have characteristics of the sentient parents and the All-Spark would be the creater of the form of this new "child" transformer.

This would also imply that Megatron had sexual congress with the All-Spark and it killed him, but possibly has created a more powerful spark, and the All-Spark would be the every shifting form of this new Ultra Decipticon. This is acceptable.

 
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Old 2007-07-09, 02:02 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally posted by fabiobasile

What is not clear is what "corrupted" Megatron in such way as to turn him against his brother and wanting to take over the planet.
We'll probably seeing that in another Movie Prequel Comic or even the sequel to the movie.
 
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Old 2007-07-09, 02:06 AM   #11
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umm... might be acceptable in some way but in the context of humanoid robot it would probably make more sense if the Allspark simply spawned the first Transformer (kinda like Adam and Eve) and then those two procreated further descentance.

Actually i find a lot of sense in this, since the Allspark seems to work only on inanimate objects. In the event of a fusion between the Allspark and a sentient Transformer, the Transformer would be killed just like Megatron, or as it would have turned out, Optimus Prime.

If we take it one step further with speculation, we could say that the only purpose of the Allspark is to create life where there is none, and not to fuse itself with pre-existent life. Doing so would destroy the life form and not "enhance it".
 

"Freedom is the right of all sentient beings" response by Megatron: "Bite my shiny metal ass!"
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Old 2007-07-09, 09:08 PM   #12
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The Allspark was needed otherwise Cyberton becomes barren. This to me implies the Allspark was the only known method of creating sentient life in the form of the Transformers. My thinking at this point (until I read something new to change my current thoughts) is that without the Allspark Cybertron and the Transformers are doomed. No new life means eventually the principles of entropy will destroy the last living robot without anyway of propogating more.

This is of course just how I am viewing things in the movie universe with the movie as my only view of this universe at this time.
 
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Old 2007-07-09, 09:37 PM   #13
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i see your point, thou i find this a bit depressing... on a more cheerful note, considering the fact that the Allspark was destroyed, and the obvious fact that we have a clear separaton between male and female robots, it's implied that the two separate sexes as compatible counterparts. From this perspective i would tend to believe that there is a female spark and a male spark, which consequently leads me to think that although singular robots cannot create life, a couple of opposite sex counterparts would be able to spawn at least one new sentient robot, leaving the AllSpark as some kind of primordial ultimate Spark of all life useful more than anything as a source of energy rather than a life generator.

This would ultimately be a metaphor for the garden of eden:

So, Megatron and Optimus Prime rule over cybertron and make sure that the Allspark keeps on providing for everyone on the planet, thus eliminating the need for labour, war and basic survival, since the AllSpark provides infinite energy, no one is worried about having to work for the living.

One day Megatron goes nuts, perhaps Optimus stole his girlfriend or poked him or stuck a potato up Megs exhaust pipe and got him so mad that he decided to steal the Allspark and start his own energy distribution company like... "Magawatts Inc." or something, and start charging Cybertronians a fee in exchange for energy. Of course it would be horrible and since none of the Cybertronians is used to work for energy and have any kind of living expenses, everyone would think it's the end of civilization as they know it.

It's not like they are gonna die or anything, i think it's more like a mix between the story of the garden of eden and the good old war for oil metaphor... i would guess anyway....

I mean... think abut it, what if we had an original and unextinguishable food source from some crazy place like... trees or something... and one day some guy starts fencing around all the trees and says "Hey! From now on whoever wants to eat must pay me!" We would all be like "Wooot?? No more free food?? It's the end boys and girls! We are all gonna starve!" ... until someone says "We don't have to starve! Let's go beat the crap out of the guy and take thew trees!" So the guy loads up the trees and sends them to another planet, say, "Cybertron", and then we go there and do battle with hang gliders and sling shots and the Cybertronians will look at us and say "Cool! Flesh creatures battling in our streets!" But we wouldn't be interested in the Allspark coz we make more money with gasoline so they wouldn't mind us so much...

Ok i think i lost my point... what was i talking about again? Something about gasoline... and robots... mmh...
 

"Freedom is the right of all sentient beings" response by Megatron: "Bite my shiny metal ass!"
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Old 2007-07-10, 06:06 PM   #14
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I'm far more interested in finding out what/who created the Allspark to begin with. Starting from that point would explain a lot in terms of its real purpose and/or TF reproduction. It's interesting that the movie shows us bits of the Cybertronian alphabet but doesn't quite indicate 1) if it's related to the symbols on the cube or 2) if the TFs can even interpret the symbols (I'm sure if they could, something would have been mentioned about it at some point during the movie).

I know the rumor mill is cranking out theories regarding the Quintessons, Unicron, and all that jazz. All I can say is that the upcoming sequels are hopefully going to be very interesting.
 

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Old 2007-07-10, 07:32 PM   #15
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Let's take it from the basics:

The allspark is:

- an ancient artifact
- able to generate energy ad infinitum
- able to generate complex sentient and autonomous robotic organisms from inanimate objects/matter

Unless the writers come up with a bit more information i don't think we will ever be able to work out who or what created the Allspark. It's pretty much like speculating on the origin of the Universe. Maybe when Stephen Hawking comes up with an answer to the origin of our Universe we'll be able to formulate a theory which will be perfect for the Allspark.

My knack for speculation also spawned another theory:

Let's say that the Quintessons found the Allspark as some form or raw energy and somehow they managed to use their knowledge of quantum mechanics and assorted super-advanced sciences, to enclose the Allspark within a machine (the cube)programmed to use the tremendous energy output in order to convert relatively complex inert machines into self aware mechanisms.

It makes a lot more sense in this case to think of a scientific experiment of colossal proportions, or perhaps an attempt to create a race of self aware robots to use as an army to conquer the universe! (To reiterate, the Allspark is a source of infinite energy, that mens an army of soldiers with unlimited supply to keep them fighting against armies of soldiers perhaps as powerful, but limited by earthly needs).

The problem is that being the Allspark raw energy, it behaves in ways that are unpredictable even when knowledge pushes the boundaries of super-advanced evolution. This explains why some Transformers turn good and others evil.

This reconnects to human genome also, our DNA is programmed with so many variables that it is impossible to define how an individual wiill integrate in society and whether he will be a positive or negative force in that society.

If we flow along with the Quintesson theory we can see how the Quintessons failed to see how little control they would have had over the experiment, so instead of creating a race of slaves, the Allspark created a race of completely independent and autonomous beings.

This is why the Transformers serie will never die, because it's so epic and perfectly designed in its simplicity that it's capable of spawning thousands of theories and speculations ready to fill up plots and scripts for literally decades to come!
 

"Freedom is the right of all sentient beings" response by Megatron: "Bite my shiny metal ass!"
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Old 2007-07-10, 09:06 PM   #16
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There was mention above of both female and male robots. I know that Arcee is in the prequels even though I have not read them yet. Has anything in the source material suggested actual gender, such as sexual relations and such, or does it appear to be more of a personality/aesthetic genderfication? I have seen the Target Scout Class figure for Arcee and beyond the face having a somewhat feminine sculpt she doesn't appear to be particularly female.

Personally I always preferred the "not a real gender" take on Transformers. Seems a degree of silliness that Bay and Speilberg would not have wanted in their mythos either. Just my opinions though.
 
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Old 2007-07-10, 10:45 PM   #17
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Hey did anyone see that, after megs dies due to the fusion with the allspark, optimus takes a piece of metal (megatrons or a piece of allspark) from megatrons chest....

This leaves yet another open ending for a sequel...

Furthermore, I found it a bit off-key that the energy-influence from the allspark automatically turned the objects into aggressive, destructive beings... if that is what the allspark does, then the autobots (and their good personalities) would not be viable in the story at all.. going back to the far far historical life on cybertron and other machine-based-life planets... does anyone have further/other ideas about this?
 

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Old 2007-07-11, 02:58 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally posted by Skidz
Furthermore, I found it a bit off-key that the energy-influence from the allspark automatically turned the objects into aggressive, destructive beings... if that is what the allspark does, then the autobots (and their good personalities) would not be viable in the story at all.. going back to the far far historical life on cybertron and other machine-based-life planets... does anyone have further/other ideas about this?
As was pointed out earlier, not all machines created by the AllSpark were evil. Two did attack people (the steering wheel and the vending machine) and one ran away (the Xbox controler). The one created in the lab doesn't count because it awoke to being a prisoner, it was just trying to get free.

Of the Real Gear toys, not all are Decepticons and not all are Autobots (not sure about the ratio). So, it most likely creates both.

However, I will concede that it seems weird that they are created Autobot or Decepticon. Where's the free will? The choice?
 

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Old 2007-07-11, 03:07 AM   #19
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I read somewhere that the robots created by the Allspark were not inherently good or bad. They were just mindless and went berserk. Since I think they were accidentally created. Also, I bet in Transformers part 3 it will be revealed that Primacron created the Allspark.
 



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Old 2007-07-11, 03:08 PM   #20
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I figure the Allspark created robots start some what fresh and just go wild. Reason and civilization prop up with a bit of time and interaction, once the robotic heirarchies are estabilised. So they all begin with baby-like mentalities and go into a tantrum. They are just created with weaponry whereas our young tend to be a little unable to exert much brute force beyond a high pitched whine.
 
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