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Old 2007-09-09, 05:45 PM   #1
slartibartfast
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Arrow Do transformers die of old age ?

I can't think of any that did, that's all.

If they don't, then isn't it more a case of euthanasia than civil war ? Like they eventually ran out of new things to do, someone may have suggested a pie-fight or some-such, people got over-excited, and it all went from there.


It all makes perfect sense.
 

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Old 2007-09-09, 06:05 PM   #2
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One of the UK annuals had Rodimus Prime as old, weak and bed-ridden, which was kind of strange really since TFs shouldn't age like we humans do, being robots and all.

Though Alpha Trion's facial hair kept growing and his voice changed...I think it's only on indvidual basis; Optimus Prime showed no signs of aging between 9 million years ago (War Dawn) and modern times, whereas the aforementioned Alpha Trion did, and Rodimus Prime even moreso.

I guess it's some kind of slow, progressive disease that causes decay in Transformers, and it's effect on them is similar to human aging.
 
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Old 2007-09-09, 06:18 PM   #3
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I think there were some examples of transformers more or less dieing from old age in the UK comics. The Overlord, an anchient ruler of cybertron, was dieing of old agae and needed a constant energon surply to survive.
 

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Old 2007-09-09, 06:27 PM   #4
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"Circuit burn" suggests that there's a limit to how much cerebral circuitry can be replaced -- copying consciousness into something else may be considered an imprecise reduction, or ordinarily taboo.

(Bob's "Op on a floppy disc" storyline pisses all over this line of reasoning. It does sort of fit with the mind crystals from earlier in the US run, though -- the Autobots are said to live again, suggesting they were effectively dead whilst in the mind bank.)

It might have something to do with politics too -- if the old Overlord is deactivated for long enough, the role of governance may automatically pass to someone else, even if he's revived later.

Quote:
Originally posted by Tetsuro
One of the UK annuals had Rodimus Prime as old, weak and bed-ridden
Side-effect of Unicron in the matrix, not old age. It was only a few decades ahead in continuity.
 
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Old 2007-09-09, 07:05 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally posted by Denyer
Bob's "Op on a floppy disc" storyline pisses all over this line of reasoning
Aye, it sort of does that to most things - sparks, brain modules, sentience, credibility, common bloody sense, the capacity of 5" disks... Bless 'im, he just didn't give one by then, did he?

Some parts will surely corrode over years - IIRC few to none TFs have shown the ability to regenerate parts, usually needing repairs/maintenance... It's fair to assume if things like Xaaron's transformation kit can fall into disrepair, other things can too [insert your own "Grimlock's brain clearly corroded over the years" gag here]. There are hints of senility for Kup at times on the telly, too. Mind, the cartoon's bollocks.
 
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Old 2007-09-09, 11:21 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally posted by Denyer
Side-effect of Unicron in the matrix, not old age. It was only a few decades ahead in continuity.
Oh yeah, forgot about that one. I did remember it wasn't too long after the events of any of the main stories, did wonder what was up with that...
 
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Old 2007-09-10, 12:56 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally posted by Cliffjumper
There are hints of senility for Kup at times on the telly, too. Mind, the cartoon's bollocks.
There is a comic story about Kup, how he met Hot Rod, it showed Kup as more or less retired, in his own ship, cruising till he's out of energy.

I'm not sure what exactly he said, all I remember is the german "translation", but I think it boils down to him being too old and starting to be a risk to others, having lost his fighting spirit.

He regained it, though, so he didn't die. I don't think he'd ever died of old age, though, rather weariness, having no will/reason to live anymore.
 

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Old 2007-09-11, 08:50 AM   #8
inflatable dalek
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Quote:
Originally posted by Cliffjumper
Aye, it sort of does that to most things - sparks, brain modules, sentience, credibility, common bloody sense, the capacity of 5" disks... Bless 'im, he just didn't give one by then, did he?
Well, in the case of brain modules I'd assume the intent that Computer Kid copied the content of the original, and then Goldbug latter copied the copy onto a new blank one. That's actually the most plausible part of the whole thing (you just have to ignore everything else...)
 
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Old 2007-09-11, 10:06 AM   #9
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Perhaps the issue with Prime's mind on a disk is easier to swallow if we assume that Goldbug had parts of Prime's brain module with him, when they rebuilt his body?
Then the disk wouldn't need to have everything of Prime, just his more recent memories and thoughts, necessary to complete him, but not everything he is.


(Of course, assuming usually doesn't do any good. But ignoring won't help either.)
 

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Old 2007-09-11, 11:11 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally posted by inflatable dalek
Well, in the case of brain modules I'd assume the intent that Computer Kid copied the content of the original, and then Goldbug latter copied the copy onto a new blank one. That's actually the most plausible part of the whole thing (you just have to ignore everything else...)
A brain module can be transferred onto a 1980s computer disc? What would seem to be his entire personality (considering he returns no worse for wear once he realises he's real again)? I dunno, to me that's the bit that stinks the most - that a brain module could be that simple, on top of TFs just being so easy to copy. You have to wonder why there aren't two-dozen copies of each key Autobot stored on the Ark if it's that simple to copy a brain module - that way, whenever Prime died they could just fire up a new one. Totally pisses on the things being alive, IMO.
 
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Old 2007-09-12, 06:45 AM   #11
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It was the idea of copying the contents I didn't have a problem with (as the comic had already established they can do that anyway). The storage capacity of a floopy disc is of the things that is bollocks...
 
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Old 2007-09-12, 10:30 AM   #12
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And let's consider the fact that Chip Chase can tear floppy disks apart with his bare hands for a moment...
 
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Old 2007-09-12, 12:29 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally posted by Tetsuro
And let's consider the fact that Chip Chase can tear floppy disks apart with his bare hands for a moment...
Why? Because it's not even remotely relevant beyond both unrelated facts involving floppy disks?

Quote:
Originally posted by Dalek
Well, in the case of brain modules I'd assume the intent that Computer Kid copied the content of the original, and then Goldbug latter copied the copy onto a new blank one.
And let's consider the fact that Goldbug can watch monitors for a moment.

I mean, what?
 
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Old 2007-09-12, 05:12 PM   #14
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I guess that, if they don't upgrade (mentioned in the Kup Spotlight) for some reason, then they'd show symptoms of age degeneration as obselete parts could be hard or impossible to find and there would be limited resources during the war to make suitable copies. Patches and other programme releases may be used in a medicinal manner, but would only allieviate the obvious symptoms until no longer efficacious. Maybe it would be possible to arrange a personality transfer, but that assumes the unit in question wants to transfer or can be cohersed; it also assumes that such a transfer is possible from an older design. Alpha Trion and other 'senior' 'bots are shown to be older by their white 'beards' and 'eyebrows', which might be a social convention, but it does not necessarily indicate that their internal structure is unsound, particularly if they upgrade regularly. Um, I wonder if the thinking might be like Kirk and the transporter - if I am destroyed each time I travel, is it me who is reassembled at the other end?

This is something I investigated in an abandoned and incomplete fanfic. Might go dig it out...
 

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Old 2007-09-15, 03:40 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally posted by Tetsuro
And let's consider the fact that Chip Chase can tear floppy disks apart with his bare hands for a moment...
Nobody's ever really disabled as long as they have courage!!! :rolleyes:
 

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Old 2007-09-15, 04:43 PM   #16
Rurudyne
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Default Re: Do transformers die of old age ?

Quote:
Originally posted by slartibartfast
I can't think of any that did, that's all.

If they don't, then isn't it more a case of euthanasia than civil war ? Like they eventually ran out of new things to do, someone may have suggested a pie-fight or some-such, people got over-excited, and it all went from there.


It all makes perfect sense.
While work with the G1/G2/BW continuity for my Genesis story (I'm only gonna speak about that), where there is no evidince of that sort of death due to aging, I do allow that spark containment is the limiting factor in the physical life of any Cybertronian-like creature.

Their crude physical forms, maintenance issues aside, are generally impervious to time by design but their spark containment systems have elements which cannot generally be replaced or repaired. Even then, time itself would render spark containment eventually impossible leading to "death."

But, and here's the rub, sparks themselves don't die but are often recycled once the Allspark has made them forget who they were ... it's part of the subtext (based on a peculiar view of quantum physics) I assigned to Primacron's motives for making Cybertron and the Allspark in the first place. He-of-monkeyness is one very sick puppy ... er, intentionally degenerate ape-like being.
 

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Old 2007-09-15, 06:29 PM   #17
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For my twopence, the ageing issue with Transformers is pretty much down to personal taste since there’s plenty of evidence pointing to both ageing and immortality.

Since they have very human personalities, I’d be apt to go with the view that mortality is a very real fear for Transformers. Practically immortal creatures would be much less humanised, probably less emotional, and certainly less compassionate to others.

If you’re looking for a reason for why robots age, I’d say having a spark is the key – sparks might have an allotted lifespan before, if you’ll excuse the pun, they ‘burn out’. By having sparks, Transformers are made both alive and mortal, and therefore act like humans, searching for meaning and fearing mortality.

I think they live to about 200 earth years, but telling you why would be pure fan fiction, so I'll spare you.
 
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Old 2007-09-16, 01:16 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally posted by Housewife2000

I think they live to about 200 earth years, but telling you why would be pure fan fiction, so I'll spare you.
Do you count downtime into that? Because if not, all of the original cartoon/comic characters beat that 200 years hand down....
 
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Old 2007-09-16, 04:22 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally posted by inflatable dalek
Do you count downtime into that? Because if not, all of the original cartoon/comic characters beat that 200 years hand down....
Even if you take downtime out of the equation, there's at least a handful of characters who we know had been on-line and active for a lot longer than that. The most obvious example is cartoon Shockwave, who spent four million years as Cybertron's janitor. And in the Marvel comic there's guys like Kup (who served under Prime before the Ark was lost) and characters like Fort Max who have bits and pieces of their pre-war lives mentioned in their bios.

So, yeah...200 years is low-balling things a bit.
 
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Old 2007-09-16, 11:23 AM   #20
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Yes, downtime and stasis lock would be discounted, since much like Ripley in Aliens, Transformers don’t seem to age when in stasis. And as for how I make the maths work…

Well, I said it was fanfiction, but here goes:

You can make 200 years fit the comic continuity by adding a little physics to history: 4 million years ago, the effects of the civil war knock Cybertron out of its orbit and off into space. The further Cybertron travels from its sun (Alpha Centauri), the colder it will get until the atmosphere itself condenses into liquid or freezes solid. At this stage, the entire population either goes into stasis lock or dies. When Cybertron approaches our sun, the atmosphere thaws, the Transformers come back on line, launch the Ark and Nemesis to carve a path in the asteroid belt blocking their route, and then go back into stasis as Cybertron spins out of our solar system. At some point before 1984, Cybertron falls into orbit around another star and everyone wakes up. Taking that theory into account, a 200 year lifespan would be feasible. It would also help explain how very little happens to Cybertron’s status quo and technology in 4 million years.

Cartoon wise, it’s trickier, particularly since I don’t know the cartoon very well. You could still suggest that since Cybertron is in an energy crisis when Megatron contacts Shockwave in 1984, that much of the planet has been offline or in stasis in the intervening time period to conserve fuel.

And why 200 years in the first place? The 300 year gap between G1 and Beast Wars seems to have reduced most G1 Transformers to legends and memories, suggesting that a lifespan some way less than 300. Ravage gets around this by also going into stasis lock for some reason between the end of the Great War and the BW time period.
 
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