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Old 2007-09-22, 07:23 AM   #1
Sociopathic Autobot
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Lightbulb Hot Rod doesn't jump in... Now what?

Okay so I have been thinking about this for a few days now while bored stupid at work and it's something that has had very little discussion that I've seen. What if Hot Rod didn't try and stop Megatron from grabbing the gun in TF:TM? I mean obviously there is a few choices. If you think there are more add them, but I am not really focusing on that.
  • Megatron still shoots Prime because Prime is an idiot.
  • Prime being the warrior he is vaporizes Megatron right after he lunges.
  • The both take a shot with Megatron still eating it because he was looking right at the barrel of Prime's gun

Now I think that the second choice was by far the most likely just because Prime may be a pussy, but he's not a stupid pussy. But here's the thing: Prime isn't dead, he still has the Matrix. He doesn't pass it off for Ultra Magnus to lose the Matrix to Galvatron. Because Megatron is a lifeless husk and no where near Soundwave, no one grabs him to take him to Unicron to become Galvatron anyhow so I guess that is moot. My point is if Unicron still attacks Cybertron Prime won't be able to do ****. This probably means no matter what they do Cybertron gets eaten (bar stupid luck).

Or maybe Prime can find a way to use the Matrix and save all their asses, or maybe Hotrod still gets the matrix some how. What does everyone else think. "What if Hot Rod didn't interrupt the fight" what happens if he doesn't do this? What do you think happens? No this isn't a "bash Hot Rod" thread, since if it weren't for him Cybertron would have been dinner.
 


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Old 2007-09-22, 09:17 AM   #2
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Hmmm, interesting... personally I always felt the death of Prime seemed to alert Unicron to the Matrix (that random bit of screaming)... question is was Cybertron next on his ****list anyway?

Now, logically Starscream would have ended up Decepticon Leader (I say logically but in the film it came a bit out of the blue, but there's no reason whatever bizarre chain of events shoved him to the top of the pile wouldn't happen without the corpses on board), so we can safely write them out of the equation - they'd all be too busy dressing up and so forth. That said, without having to tend to Prime, would the Autobots have pressed the retreating Autobots harder?

Prime probably wouldn't seize the opportunity to conquer Cybertron, even against such pathetic opposition - at least, based on his S1/2 behaviour, though by the Movie he seems to have had a lobotomy and remember he's fighting in a war and it's, like, okay to shoot people on the other side.

The Moonbases would still be destroyed at the same point, though, so presumably the Autobots would head Cybertron way at roughly the same point.

Another question is what exactly causes the Matrix to open... While Hot Rod's clearly the chosen one, would the Matrix have opened for Optimus with Unicron bearing down on Cybertron; would it being "their darkest hour" be enough, or does it need a chosen one as well?

Ah, Ron Fredman. Godawful scriptwriter, Godfather of online fandom. TF fandom would probably have got bored years ago if he didn't leave such massive holes in the TF:TM script...
 
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Old 2007-09-22, 10:26 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally posted by Cliffjumper
Hmmm, interesting... personally I always felt the death of Prime seemed to alert Unicron to the Matrix (that random bit of screaming)...
He had to know it was out there it was "The one thing, the only thing" that can destroy him. Unless every time he saw a shiny bauble and just got paranoid I'd say it's safe to say he knew it existed.

I really regret actually letting this thought bloom. I've always been content to just happily watch the movie every now and then and fondly recall my childhood. Now that I am actually thinking about what happens I'm just tearing it to shreds and my the child in me is crying. The plot makes about as much sense as a Deadpool comic, but without actually being any good.
 


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Old 2007-09-22, 06:00 PM   #4
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He had to know it was out there it was "The one thing, the only thing" that can destroy him. Unless every time he saw a shiny bauble and just got paranoid I'd say it's safe to say he knew it existed.
I've just had an awesome idea for some artwork, now to find a willing artist...
 

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Old 2007-09-22, 06:13 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally posted by Sociopathic Autobot
He had to know it was out there it was "The one thing, the only thing" that can destroy him. Unless every time he saw a shiny bauble and just got paranoid I'd say it's safe to say he knew it existed.
Yeh, sorry, I meant more that it alerted him to its' location... you can theorise it was shielded in Prime's chest or somthing otherwise surely he'd have bothered earlier (like, say, when the Autobots were dormant on the Ark and he'd have faced zero resistance). It's a bit hard to say much conclusivly as so much of Unicron's motivations for his actions and the history of the Matrix is hazy, because Friedman just didn't really bother with that sort of thing.

Incidentally, I agree that without Hot Rod's intervention, Prime would have killed Megatron. He wasn't in his tired old bleeding heart mood, he was about to get the gun and blow the mother away. I'm pretty confident he could have finished Megatron before Megatron had fired off the pistol. Not claiming that in this instance Hot Rod was a dick - he tried doing the right thing, and sometimes **** happens.
 
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Old 2007-09-22, 07:11 PM   #6
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I think that Unicron was aware of the Matrix all along, as he seems to have a good grasp on what everyone is doing most of the time, thanks to his little surveillance station ("Ultra Magnus lives... on the Planet of Junk...").

I'd like to think he spent 4 million years in peace knowing that the Matrix was buried under a volcano on Earth, but when Optimus and company were awakened, he began his long, slow (even for him) journey across space toward Earth and Cybertron, devouring planets like Lithone on the way to sustain him.

So if Megatron had been killed, and Optimus and Hot Rod are busy rebuilding Earth while the Decepticons take off in Astrotrain, I think Unicron would still want a patsy to do his work for him, so he'd summon Astrotrain. Maybe Starscream would be the only one greedy and stupid enough not to be afraid, but he would cut a deal with Unicron, get a major upgrade, and basically become his own version of Galvatron. Maybe the others would be upgraded as well. Under Unicron's direction they would attack Earth, and things would go on as they did, because even if the Autobots do still have Optimus, Autobot city is still a mess.

And come the battle with Unicron, don't think Optimus would have had a problem opening the Matrix, seeing as he did it in The Return (but I guess being the only uninfected Transformer in the universe might be kinda like being the chosen one).

Or maybe he gets blown to pieces by Starsceam within Unicron, Hot Rod and the others arrive just in time to see him fall, and in the confrontation, Hot Rod grabs the Matrix and Season 3 happens as scheduled.
 

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Old 2007-09-22, 07:33 PM   #7
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Originally posted by Grandmaster Shockwaeve
Or maybe he gets blown to pieces by Starsceam within Unicron, Hot Rod and the others arrive just in time to see him fall, and in the confrontation, Hot Rod grabs the Matrix and Season 3 happens as scheduled.
Now, to me, if we could find some way of recovering Megatron's body and having him turn into Galvatron (maybe Prime shot him over the ledge?) that'd just simply make a much more interesting climax to the film, and solve a lot of issues - no need for Magnus to play fall guy for an hour, a chance for us to properly see a mentor/student relationship between Prime and Hot Rod (maybe with Prime taking Kup's place, broadly, with some device to seperate them from the rest of the troops) and just generally a much more even story.

The problem with the script as made is that it plays nearly all of its' big cards too early, and buy the midway mark we're left with a cast of underdeveloped strangers killing time before they meet up with Unicron.
 
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Old 2007-09-23, 11:37 AM   #8
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The important thing is that either way Wheelie gets captured and eaten by Sharkticons on Quintessa.
 

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Old 2007-09-23, 02:34 PM   #9
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Originally posted by Titus Andronicus
The important thing is that either way Wheelie gets captured and eaten by Sharkticons on Quintessa.
People like this are why G1 topics usually end up in the ****ter.
 
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Old 2007-09-23, 02:53 PM   #10
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Now, I haven't read the comics, but do Prime and Megatron not just shoot each other with out Hot Rod interfereing in the old marvel version of the movie? If that happned all that would be changed would be, if Megatron falls of the edge and "survives" and prime dies, that there was missing a few lines from the movie( out of the way Hot Rod and Optimus forgive me) and the plot would go on unaltered.
 

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Old 2007-09-23, 02:56 PM   #11
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Originally posted by RUNAMOK
Now, I haven't read the comics, but do Prime and Megatron not just shoot each other with out Hot Rod interfereing in the old marvel version of the movie? If that happned all that would be changed would be, if Megatron falls of the edge and "survives" and prime dies, that there was missing a few lines from the movie( out of the way Hot Rod and Optimus forgive me) and the plot would go on unaltered.
True, but the whole battle is subtly different, as are enough details for this sort of thing not to be completely interchangable. It's hard to work out what's a glancing blow, and what's not. The comic mini-series is based on an earlier draft of the script, and features a number of differences - the original idea seems to have been that Megatron simply beat Prime in a straight fight...
 

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Old 2007-09-23, 03:18 PM   #12
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Its always the details that make the difference. That is also what makes so hard to predict what would happen.



Megatron still shoots Prime because Prime is an idiot.

This could happen if he succedes in distracting Prime by takling to him.

Prime being the warrior he is vaporizes Megatron right after he lunges.

This reminds me of something Rodimus Prime did in the comic. Could happen if Prime notices that Megatron is trying to buy some time.

The both take a shot with Megatron still eating it because he was looking right at the barrel of Prime's gun

Defenetly the most interesting scene to see in my opinion, grahpickly I mean
 

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Old 2007-09-23, 11:03 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally posted by Cliffjumper



While Hot Rod's clearly the chosen one, would the Matrix have opened for Optimus with Unicron bearing down on Cybertron; would it being "their darkest hour" be enough, or does it need a chosen one as well?

I think it would. Hot Rod's being the 'chosen one' I always took to mean chosen to be the next prime, and that only a prime can open the matrix. If that's the case, it would imply that Optimus (or any other prime) could open it too.



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Titus Andronicus


The important thing is that either way Wheelie gets captured and eaten by Sharkticons on Quintessa.


Wheelie haters can GTFO.
 

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Old 2007-09-24, 03:52 AM   #14
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Originally posted by Zisteau
Wheelie haters can GTFO.

http://www.tfarchive.com/community/s...hlight=wheelie

You're god damned right! Wait a minute that was two years ago.......

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Old 2007-09-24, 04:50 AM   #15
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Hmmmmm ... ok, here's my take:

Optimus is facing off with Megs and has the upper hand.

Megs hits on begging for mercy as a ploy that clearly amazes Prime even to the point of being stuipified.

Meanwhile, Hot Rod is nursing a dented face because he thought he should ask Arcee out now while Springer was distracted.

So out on the battlefield it's the big two one on one.

Megs' opportunity gained by begging works and he shoots Prime.

Megs gloats stupidly.

Prime performs what few humans realize is a killing strike against an older Cybertronian, aimed to damage Megs' spark containment as much as possible. That's why he gets taken out and why Starscream was so sure his status was only temporary.

The rest of the movie is pretty much the same except for what happens to Hot Rod.

Since Arcee doesn't trust Hot Rod just then, and Springer is now wondering what happened, they pay closer attention to where he is and what he's doing. He doesn't get separated even though another Autobot does.

This other Autobot encounters a despondent Galvatron who's nonplussed that the Allspark couldn't even send a decent warrior his way for some entertainment. In disgust he flops down and waits for the end. The Autobot, who's been sheltered his whole life from the war, approaches Galvy and ask him why he doesn't do anything about Unicron.

"It won't open ... for ANYONE!" Galvy grumbles and holds out the Matrix to be examined, "It's absolutely useless."

The Autobot tugs at the matrix and we hear Prime's voice:

"Well, damn! Beggers can't be choosers! Arise, Wheelimus Prime!"
 

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Old 2007-09-24, 07:48 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally posted by Zisteau

Wheelie haters can GTFO.
Based on the first page of the Prime Spotlight that would include Furman then...

I can't even see Bad Arse movie Prime pulling the trigger in cold blood to be honest- After all, despite all his "Destroy Devastator" talk he doesn't kill anyone on his charge through Autobot City does he? And if he can't bring himself to spend two seconds deliver a killing blow to a no one like ramjet how could he look Megs in the eye and pull the trigger?
 
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Old 2007-09-24, 09:47 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally posted by Grandmaster Shockwaeve
Maybe Starscream would be the only one greedy and stupid enough not to be afraid, but he would cut a deal with Unicron, get a major upgrade, and basically become his own version of Galvatron.
Yes, he'd be upgraded into Slugslinger.
 
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Old 2007-09-24, 12:15 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally posted by inflatable dalek
I can't even see Bad Arse movie Prime pulling the trigger in cold blood to be honest- After all, despite all his "Destroy Devastator" talk he doesn't kill anyone on his charge through Autobot City does he? And if he can't bring himself to spend two seconds deliver a killing blow to a no one like ramjet how could he look Megs in the eye and pull the trigger?
It's not really in cold blood, IMO. Megatron's just made his umpteenth attempt to kill his friends - Hell, he managed to kill three of them and Brawn, something which probably clicked before his arrival.

As for the charge, it's pretty opbvious he wasn't particularly trying to kill Thrust, Blitzwing, Soundwave etc. (yes, in the storyboards he does kill Dirge, but we're not really counting storyboards here) - he was just trying to get through to Megatron ASAP - "Megatron must be stopped" loses a bit of its' imperative when you stop to put a bullet hrough the brains of various injured lackeys.
 
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Old 2007-09-24, 05:37 PM   #19
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Alright, fine. I can go with the Wheelie rocks thing if need be. Wheelie was my first TF ever after all.
Quote:
Originally posted by Wildrider
So let's examine the evidence, wheel (lol) start wth his original G1 tech specs!

Strength '5' - He's harder than Cliffjumper! (4)

Intelligence '6' - He's more intelligent than fanboy favourite Target Master Hot Rod (5)

Speed '8' - Wow he's quicker than Sideswipe, Sunstreaker AND Target Master Blurr!

Endurance '9' - He's got as much staying power as Metroplex AND
Fortress Maximus!(9) More than Jetfire! (4) WowzorRz!

Rank '5' - He's as valued in the Autobot chain of command as Brawn! (Dead OR Alive).

Courage '9' - This kid's got just as much balls as Ultra Magnus, Springer, Kup and most of the Dinobots(9)!!!

Firepower '7' - This slingshot has more firepower than Prowl and Jazz (5) Packing just as much heat as Computron! (7)OMFG!

Skill '8' - This minibot has more skillz than Omega Supreme (6) and Superion (7)
This time Wheelie does not get eaten by Sharkticons. Instead, demonstrating tactical genius over and above the self-assured brilliance we've all come to expect from good ol' "No you don't Megatron!" Hot Rod, Wheelie the "wild boy" of Quintessa, the sole survivor of his party, a poor misunderstood youth driven so mad with loneliness that he now speaks in only strange, rhyming sentences, formulates a cunning plan. He will storm the Quintesson citadel and commandeer their vessel, and seek out strange new life forms in uncharted galaxies! He shall be...

Wheelie the Adventurer!

Wheelie the adventurer reaches the Quintesson citadel in no time thanks to his amazing speed (as fast as Blurr!). However, the Quintessons are engaging in their bi-weekly 'chuckle therapy' sessions and besides that have closed and locked the doors ever since Wheelie started ringing their doorbell and driving away a few astro-weeks ago. This poses a problem for our hero. Though he could easily beat up Spike, or even a weaker Autobot such as Cliffjumper, Wheelie the adventurer is not exactly the strongest Autobot alive (even though he is nevertheless as valuable as Brawn). However (cue Madeleine theme), what Wheelie the Adventurer lacks in strength he makes up for in both endurance (as much as Fortress Maximus AND Metroplex) and courage (it sometimes seems as if not even the noble Ultra Magnus or the mighty Dinobots can match the steely nerve of Wheelie the Adventurer). So Wheelie steadfastly begins to bravely batter down the doors of the Quintesson citadel with his mighty three-bladed knife. After some time the Quintessons notice the fearsome might of Wheelie the Adventurer at their very doorstep and, still chuckling for some inexplicable reason, send out their sinister Sharkticon guards to capture him. Oh no! *gasp* What will our hero do? Like the great Optimus Prime our hero despises taking any and all life: his inherent nobility of soul is such that he mourns even for the lives of his mortal foes!
Alas, life is cruel, and "only the fierce may live". Now that he is under attack by hordes of his mortal enemies, our diminutive hero regretfully pulls out his trusty sling. Drawing on the immense destructive power of his fire-stones - as powerful as the weapon of Autobots most technologically advanced gestalt, Computron - Wheelie the Adventurer lives up to his motto and, with all the skill of the mighty Omega Supreme lays waste to the Sharkticon hordes. After entering the citadel and slaughtering his cruel five-faced oppressors Wheelie the Adventurer is instantly able to decipher the strange Quintesson controls (Hot Rod had to read the instruction manual, he's so stoopid), and begins his quest to explore the galaxy...
After many exciting adventures I can't be bothered making up - maybe something involving space pirates - Wheelie finds the planet Junkion, where he marries Wreck-Gar, becomes Queen of the Junkions, and saves Christmas. He, Santa Claus, and the Junkions all dance happily ever after.
 

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Old 2007-09-24, 05:47 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally posted by Titus Andronicus
Alright, fine. I can go with the Wheelie rocks thing if need be. Wheelie was my first TF ever after all.
Except for the fact that this thread has nothing to do with Wheelie and how great he is or how much he sucks. You've missed the entire point twice now.
 


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