The Transformers Archive Skip to main content / Also skip section headers

[The Transformers Archive - an international fan site]
Please feel free to log in or register.

 
  • transformers toys
  • transformers comics
  • transformers cartoon
  • transformers live-action movies
  • transformers fandom
  • transformers forum
Old 2007-10-10, 10:45 AM   #41
Halfshell
Magical Truthsaying Turtle
 
Halfshell's Avatar
 
Don't complain to me. I don't care.
Smile

Just to tie back to this whole "Lio Convoy is a G1 character because BWII is in continuity with BW, which is in continuity with G1" thing.

By the same token, would you class Leadfoot as a G1 character?
 

Halfshell is offline  
Old 2007-10-10, 10:46 AM   #42
Tramp
Unicron
 
Tramp's Avatar
 
Buffalo, NY
Default

Quote:
Originally posted by inflatable dalek
Yes- the Primus named in BW could indeed be the same Godlike being featured in the Marvel comic. BW Primus could equally be the name of a species of psychic slug that writes books. Viewers unfamiliar with the name wouldn't assume it refers to a God from the BW references alone. In fact, they probably won't notice it at all it's that casual (a friedn has just finished watching the show, he had lots of questions but has to to go "So who' this Primus then?").
In the way his name is invoked, shows that they are invoking a god. They invoke his name with reverence and awe, not casually. That makes a huge difference.
 
Tramp is offline  
Old 2007-10-10, 10:47 AM   #43
Tramp
Unicron
 
Tramp's Avatar
 
Buffalo, NY
Default

Quote:
Originally posted by Halfshell
Just to tie back to this whole "Lio Convoy is a G1 character because BWII is in continuity with BW, which is in continuity with G1" thing.

By the same token, would you class Leadfoot as a G1 character?
Leadfoot? I'm not familiar with him.
 
Tramp is offline  
Old 2007-10-10, 10:49 AM   #44
Halfshell
Magical Truthsaying Turtle
 
Halfshell's Avatar
 
Don't complain to me. I don't care.
Smile

Generation 2 Autobot.

From a fiction perspective, he was created by Megatron in the G2 comic. Which, much like Beast Wars, continues the story from G1.
 

Halfshell is offline  
Old 2007-10-10, 10:51 AM   #45
Tramp
Unicron
 
Tramp's Avatar
 
Buffalo, NY
Default

Quote:
Originally posted by Halfshell
But you're the one who posited the theory of Unicron getting Primacron to build him a new body. And now you doubt it? Eh?
I posted it as one of two theories, but not my preferred theory. The "dilutions of grandure" theory makes more sense to me.

Quote:
[iOrignally posted by inflatable dalek[/i]


All it shows is there is a character called Primus in the cartoon Universe. Anything else is assumed based on knowledge of the character in the Marvel comic...
Not with the way his name is invoked. His name is invoked as one would ,invok a diety; as one would invoke "The Creator".
 
Tramp is offline  
Old 2007-10-10, 10:52 AM   #46
Tramp
Unicron
 
Tramp's Avatar
 
Buffalo, NY
Default

Quote:
Originally posted by Halfshell
Generation 2 Autobot.

From a fiction perspective, he was created by Megatron in the G2 comic. Which, much like Beast Wars, continues the story from G1.
Ahh, then yes, he would be a G1 character because G2 is part of the G1 reality familiy. It's a direct continuation of the G1 story.
 
Tramp is offline  
Old 2007-10-10, 10:53 AM   #47
inflatable dalek
Duke of Kidderminster
 
inflatable dalek's Avatar
 
Kidderminster UK
Default

Quote:
Originally posted by Tramp

The fact is though, that it was intended and approved and sanctioned by Hasbro, thus making it official canon.
As said though, the BW/Primus thing wasn't intened. They wanted to have Rhinox say something "Oh ****ish" that they could use in a kids show and did a quick internet search to find something suitable. It was only when they saw the online reaction after the episode went out they even realised there wasn't just one straightforward continuity.

Leadfoot's easy for me as I think of IDW's mainverse as a Ultimates style book- So he's Ultimate Leadfoot.

EDIT: Or, as I'd forgotten his earlier appearence that can be Marvel Leadfoot...
 
inflatable dalek is offline  
Old 2007-10-10, 10:54 AM   #48
Halfshell
Magical Truthsaying Turtle
 
Halfshell's Avatar
 
Don't complain to me. I don't care.
Red face

Quote:
Originally posted by Tramp
Not with the way his name is invoked. His name is invoked as one would ,invok a diety; as one would invoke "The Creator".
I regularly say "for c**t's sake" or "for the love of f***"...
 
Halfshell is offline  
Old 2007-10-10, 10:55 AM   #49
inflatable dalek
Duke of Kidderminster
 
inflatable dalek's Avatar
 
Kidderminster UK
Default

And equally there are lots of books of prophosy not written by Gods. BW Primus is Mystic Meg.
 
inflatable dalek is offline  
Old 2007-10-10, 10:59 AM   #50
Tramp
Unicron
 
Tramp's Avatar
 
Buffalo, NY
Default

Quote:
Originally posted by inflatable dalek
As said though, the BW/Primus thing wasn't intened. They wanted to have Rhinox say something "Oh ****ish" that they could use in a kids show and did a quick internet search to find something suitable. It was only when they saw the online reaction after the episode went out they even realised there wasn't just one straightforward continuity.

Leadfoot's easy for me as I think of IDW's mainverse as a Ultimates style book- So he's Ultimate Leadfoot.

EDIT: Or, as I'd forgotten his earlier appearence that can be Marvel Leadfoot...
Whether or not that was "intended" is moot. The very context it is used is invoking a diety. It's like us saying, "Oh God!" It is no secret that Bob forward was not familiar with transformers lore prior to his beginning Beast Wars. It is specifically stated in the Ultimate Guide. However, once Season 2 began production Forward did have a greater grasp of TF lore and history, and it was decided to incorporate BW into the G1 cartoon continuity while bringing a few elements from the Marvel continutiy in as well, including Primus, and the name of the Autobot's ship, the Ark, which had gone unnamed in the cartoon.
 
Tramp is offline  
Old 2007-10-10, 11:03 AM   #51
Halfshell
Magical Truthsaying Turtle
 
Halfshell's Avatar
 
Don't complain to me. I don't care.
Smile

Ah, rubbish. I had to pick one who'd turned up in IDW, didn't I?

Quote:
Originally posted by Tramp
Ahh, then yes, he would be a G1 character because G2 is part of the G1 reality familiy. It's a direct continuation of the G1 story.
But he's a G2 character. He's in a comic that is specifically labelled as G2 in a deliberate bid to distinguish it from G1... but the presence of G1 characters carried over makes him G1?

It's roughly akin to saying that, because there's people born in the 1900s about today, everybody born this decade is a 20th century person.

I'm not trying to be awkward here. I'm just trying to get a handle on exactly what we all regard as the boundaries of G1.
 

Halfshell is offline  
Old 2007-10-10, 01:28 PM   #52
Denyer
Shooty Dog Thing
 
Denyer's Avatar
 
UK
Default

Quote:
Originally posted by Halfshell
By the same token, would you class Leadfoot as a G1 character?
G1 is a retro marketing term first applied to reissues and comics. 'G1' is an unreliable and fluid fan term meaning pretty much whatever ties in some way to early continuities.

He's a minor extra in a continuation of an earlier story, released under the G2 subline of Transformers.

The BW cast are in a continuation of an earlier story (arguably with sufficient differences to form its own mutually-exclusive timeline/continuity) released under the BW subline of Transformers.

Optimus Prime is a G2 character, except semantically we generally pronounce classification by the earliest accepted label. Since that's "Transformers" most people use the 'G1' fan term or apply the official term given to reissues/comics, with much the same result.

Lio Convoy could be 'G1' in the same way Optimus Primal could be, by being in a continuation storyline from an earlier classification. Most people'd try to locate an origin point (BWII or whatever) as the primary label though.
 
Denyer is offline  
Old 2007-10-10, 01:32 PM   #53
Halfshell
Magical Truthsaying Turtle
 
Halfshell's Avatar
 
Don't complain to me. I don't care.
Smile

Quote:
Originally posted by Denyer
G1 is a retro marketing term first applied to reissues and comics. 'G1' is an unreliable and fluid fan term meaning pretty much whatever ties in some way to early continuities.
Is my point exactly.

Leadfoot and Lio Convoy might be quantifiable as "G1", but they're not G1.

Even though Leadfoot is, because he's in the IDW stuff and I didn't think my example through properly...

Classics (and Legends) are "G1", as opposed to G1. IDW's comic is G1. Well, the BW one isn't. But you get what I mean.
 

Halfshell is offline  
Old 2007-10-10, 01:34 PM   #54
Denyer
Shooty Dog Thing
 
Denyer's Avatar
 
UK
Default

Nah, IDW listed some comics with Diamond as G1, but I don't think they've used the branding on books -- they're "Transformers".
 
Denyer is offline  
Old 2007-10-10, 01:55 PM   #55
Halfshell
Magical Truthsaying Turtle
 
Halfshell's Avatar
 
Don't complain to me. I don't care.
Smile

Cool. So it's only G1 if it says G1. Otherwise it's "G1", which is essentially whatever the person using it wants it to mean.

Which may have been my initial point. I can't remember.
 

Halfshell is offline  
Old 2007-10-10, 07:30 PM   #56
Tramp
Unicron
 
Tramp's Avatar
 
Buffalo, NY
Default

Quote:
Originally posted by Halfshell
Ah, rubbish. I had to pick one who'd turned up in IDW, didn't I?



But he's a G2 character. He's in a comic that is specifically labelled as G2 in a deliberate bid to distinguish it from G1... but the presence of G1 characters carried over makes him G1?

It's roughly akin to saying that, because there's people born in the 1900s about today, everybody born this decade is a 20th century person.

I'm not trying to be awkward here. I'm just trying to get a handle on exactly what we all regard as the boundaries of G1.
IT's not quite the same thing. G1 is the continuity; or more accurately, the continuity family, given that there are multiple G1 continuities. G2 is a direct continuation of the G1 story. It's a sequel, as was the Beast Wars saga. IT's the same thing as Dragonball becoming Dragonball Z becoming Dragonball GT. Each continues directly from the one before. The title simply changes for each sequel. That is quite different than say RID or AEC which were essentially reboots/reimaginings. Thus, what is important is the continuity family that the character is a part of, not just the name of the series. In the case of Leo Convoy, and even Leadfoot, they are both a part of the G1 continiuty family because their series are direct continuations of the G1 story and set in that same universe.

In essence, G1 constitutes Generation One proper, Generation two, Headmasters, Supergod Master Force, Victory, Zone, Battlestars, Operation Combination (whatever that is), Beast Wars, Beast Wars 2, Beast Wars Neo, and Beast Machines.
 

Last edited by Tramp; 2007-10-10 at 07:34 PM.
Tramp is offline  
Old 2007-10-10, 07:38 PM   #57
Tramp
Unicron
 
Tramp's Avatar
 
Buffalo, NY
Default

Quote:
Originally posted by Halfshell
I regularly say "for c**t's sake" or "for the love of f***"...
Cute. Just to avoid invoking God. IE taking his name in vain.

Quote:
Originally posted by inflatable dalek
And equally there are lots of books of prophosy not written by Gods. BW Primus is Mystic Meg.
Well, books of prophesy aren't written by the gods themselves anyway. They're written by the prophets who recieve the visions and messages from said gods.
 
Tramp is offline  
Old 2007-10-10, 07:51 PM   #58
inflatable dalek
Duke of Kidderminster
 
inflatable dalek's Avatar
 
Kidderminster UK
Default

Quote:
Originally posted by Tramp

In essence, G1 constitutes Generation One proper,
The problem remains though that there is no "Generation One" proper, it's still a long after the fact term that's been applied to a lot more stuff than you've listed as well (Dreamwave, SCF's ect) just as a way of diferentiating it from whatever other lines are running at the time. But the same token, there's no TV series called Star Trek: The ORiginal Series, it's just something stuck on DVD's to help noobs tell the difference from TNG and so on. There's no masterplan involved.

There's also the fact that the main IDW canon hasn't touched on the Unicron/Primus thing yet, they could still go for something tottaly different.
 
inflatable dalek is offline  
Old 2007-10-10, 08:29 PM   #59
Tramp
Unicron
 
Tramp's Avatar
 
Buffalo, NY
Default

Quote:
Originally posted by inflatable dalek
The problem remains though that there is no "Generation One" proper, it's still a long after the fact term that's been applied to a lot more stuff than you've listed as well (Dreamwave, SCF's ect) just as a way of diferentiating it from whatever other lines are running at the time. But the same token, there's no TV series called Star Trek: The ORiginal Series, it's just something stuck on DVD's to help noobs tell the difference from TNG and so on. There's no masterplan involved.

There's also the fact that the main IDW canon hasn't touched on the Unicron/Primus thing yet, they could still go for something tottaly different.
The name Generation One was retroactively applied to the otiginal series. Thus, there is a Generration One proper. Just like the original Star Wars was retitled A New Hope after its first run once it was decided to begin filming of Empire Strikes Back, the title Genration One has been applied to the original series.

As for IDW, the key word is yet.
 
Tramp is offline  
Old 2007-10-10, 09:16 PM   #60
Denyer
Shooty Dog Thing
 
Denyer's Avatar
 
UK
Default

Retroaction in this case has made it a brand (a lucrative one, at that) -- with nothing the G1 brand isn't attached to being G1.

Quote:
Originally posted by Tramp
what is important is the continuity family that the character is a part of, not just the name of the series.
Yes. Doesn't change whether a character's G2 or just part of the older Transformers umbrella, but yes.

Though not even that's particularly important in any real sense.

Quote:
As for IDW, the key word is yet.
And will remain that way if Furman has any sense, and doesn't like lamp oil and pitchforks...
 
Denyer is offline  
Closed Thread


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 03:14 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
 
 
[the-hub.co.uk]
[transfans.co.uk]
[oneshallstand]
[unicron.com]
[counter-x.net]
[ntfa.net]
[allspark.com]
[transformertoys.co.uk]
[tfu.info]
[botchthecrab.com]
[obscure_tf]
[tfradio.net]
 

[TFArchive button]
Link graphics...

BOOKMARK US
Or in FF, hit Ctrl+D.