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Old 2007-10-13, 08:00 AM   #1
optimusskids
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Default Who's this Guy ?

http://www.tfu.info/1993/Autobot/Autobot/autobot.htm


Found this guy on TFU any ideas what he looked like what sub group he appeared in etc.
 

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Old 2007-10-13, 08:54 AM   #2
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That is just the Generation 2 Autobot template they import each of the toys into for their pages. If you check out each of the series, and each character's page, they are all on templates which are determined by their faction and series. That template is the G2 Autobot template.
 
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Old 2007-10-13, 02:28 PM   #3
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I thought it was this guy...

http://tfwiki.net/wiki/Autobot_%28G2%29
 

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Old 2007-10-13, 03:07 PM   #4
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Cheers VT theres one Mystery solved.
 

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Old 2007-10-18, 09:05 PM   #5
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I am the TFArchive Detective: a private investigator hired to solve all the mysteries of the Transformers!
Next up... the whole gender thing: a reasonable idea, or just horse****?
 

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Old 2007-10-19, 12:09 AM   #6
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I would call it very reaonable. They are complex life forms after all. Asexula reproduction really only works well for very simple life, and all life needs to be able to procreate through some autopoietic means—life must be capable of self-propagation, regardless of what that life is made from. Therefore, given that Transformers are life forms, and very complex ones at that, there is no reason why they shouldn't have true genders. There is enough canon evidience on both sides of the Pacific to support it too, but this is really a topic for another discussion.
 
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Old 2007-10-19, 06:40 AM   #7
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Within the Marvel comic there were no genders of course.


If I ever write fanfic Autobot will be the star I think.
 
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Old 2007-10-19, 06:44 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally posted by inflatable dalek
Within the Marvel comic there were no genders of course.


If I ever write fanfic Autobot will be the star I think.
Very true, but in every other continuity, there were, and plenty of romance too. That was one of the few things I didn't like about the Marvel run. I liked the fembots, and there really was no reason to not include femmes into the series.
 
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Old 2007-10-19, 06:51 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally posted by Tramp
Very true, but in every other continuity, there were, and plenty of romance too. That was one of the few things I didn't like about the Marvel run. I liked the fembots, and there really was no reason to not include femmes into the series.
The reason not to include them was that they were all asexual. My Mother has a wonderful six hour rant she wheels out about the sexism, lack of logic and general stupidity behind fembots, the edited highlights are:

Pink!
Lipstick!
Heels!
They don't need genders, they just build new robots!
Why not just give a random number female voices and npt specifically refer to any of them as male or female?!
What idiots wrote this rubbish? Can't we put Dangermouse on instead?
ect...

As I've said before, that's why I love Prime's Rib so much, it's as if everyones Mum had been on about the same thing to Furman and he was sick of it.
 
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Old 2007-10-19, 07:53 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally posted by inflatable dalek
The reason not to include them was that they were all asexual. My Mother has a wonderful six hour rant she wheels out about the sexism, lack of logic and general stupidity behind fembots, the edited highlights are:

Pink!
Lipstick!
Heels!
They don't need genders, they just build new robots!
Why not just give a random number female voices and npt specifically refer to any of them as male or female?!
What idiots wrote this rubbish? Can't we put Dangermouse on instead?
ect...

As I've said before, that's why I love Prime's Rib so much, it's as if everyones Mum had been on about the same thing to Furman and he was sick of it.
from a scientific and biology standpoint asexuality really isn't reallyconducive to long-term survival of siuch a complex organism as Transformers. On top of that, building them in factories is not autopoietic reproduction, which is something all life must be capable of, regardless of what form that life takes. Asexual reproduction is autopoietic, but it does not really allow for genetic diversity, and yes, according to at least a few canon sources, Tansformers do have genetic code. The only real guarantee of genetic diversity is some form of sexual reproduction. Just because they are mechanical-based, not organic does not mean they should not be capable of reproduction, and there are a number of canon sources outside of the Marvel run on both sides of the Pacific that strongly suggest that they are capable of mating and having families, and I'm not talking Kiss players either.

In the original cartoon, we had at four romantic couples among Transformers as seen in the episode, The Search for Alpha Trion and War Dawn—Optimus Prime (previously Orion Pax) and Elita-1 (previously Ariel), Ironhide and Chromia, Inferno and Firestar, and Powerglide and Moonracer. In the movie, a related race, possibly descended from Cybertronians, the Lithonians, clearly had genders, as well as small children running around. There were familiies. Also, in the movie through season three, there was a romantic rivalry between Hot Rod and Sprimger for Arcee's affections. In Beast Wars- Beast Machines, there was the romance between Silverbolt and Black Arachnia and between Rat Trap and Botanica. In the Unicron Trilogy, specifically Cybertron, there was some flirting going on between Hot Shot and Override, though nothing came of it, and Thunderblast was swooning over Megatron like some highschooler with a school-girl crush. In the Japanese manga version of Victory, it was revealed in the last issue that Decepticon Emperor, Deathsaurus had a wife named Esmeryl, LeoZak had a sister, and the Dinoforce all had children, and that was why they were fighting—in order to save them. Also, the BotCon characters, Shadow Sriker and Roulette were sisters whose family was killed, including their younger sister.

The Dreamwave comics, specifically MtMtE #8 also state that the use of factory-built protoforms imbued with a spark is not the only possible method of creating new Transformer life. They have other untapped potential yet to be exploited during the G1 era. Given the relative scarcity of female Transformers at that time, That untapped potential could very well be mating.

Think about this, what purpose does romance, aka courtship, and romantic rivalries serve? The choosing of the most suitable mate for the purpose of breeding and raising a family.

Also think about this. Cybertron has an entire ecosystem, with mechanically-based plants and animals such as Turbo-foxes and Scrapmetals. Do you think anyone actively builds these animals? Not likely, especially the Scrapmetals. They need to reproduce. They need to breed in order to propagate.

Both Beast Wars and the Dreamwave comics give us a way in which they could reproduce as well. According to Beast Wars, the Maximal Protoforms within the stasis pods are made up of self-replicating nanomachines suspended in a grey gel. In MtMtE #8, it states that Transformers have something called "regenerative circuitry"— pretty much the same thing, just a different name—which allows them to heal injury and maintain homeostasis. This very same system, these nanomachines which make up their bodies, much like the cells of an organic life form, could very well be the key to reproduction.

Imagine a specialized reproductive system that creates nanomachine gametes which each contain half the genetic code as well as a fragment of Spark of each Transformer male and female, which, when combined through interfacing between a male and female, begins the growth and development of a new Transfoemer child. That is the theory in a nut-shell, and given the examples of romantic relationships, marriages, and children, in these various above named sources, is quite possible, and probable. We may not see them in the act, but there is too much evidence in support of it, to say it's impossible.
When I made my custom Chromia and custom Moonracer models. I specifically mentioned in the Chromia bio card I made for her that Moonracer was her and Ironhide's daughter. I did this because in The Search for Alpha Trion, Chromia seems to treat Moonracer very much like a daughter—protecting her, scolding her when she screws up, and praising her when she does well. Whether they actually are in canon, is up for debate, but it worked for my customs.

If you disagree, that is fine, but I would rather not get into a heated argument over it as has happened before with certain individuals who were vehimently opposed to the concept.
 
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Old 2007-10-19, 09:05 AM   #11
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The number of genders that a species has is pretty arbitary. It's only happenstance that sexual dimorphism is so prevalent among the animals with which we are most familiar. Bacteria get by fine with their single gender, as it's recently been discovered that they are able to swap genetic information when struck by
lightning.

Besides that, if Transformers were subject to the standard evolutionary pressures (which I wouldn't say they were, being artificial life forms), then all the behaviours we associate with breeding and sex would never evolve, as Transformers, being long-lived and hardy to the point of being immortal, would evolve an incredibly low rate of reproduction as a response to population pressure.

The reason that there's such an aversion to femme-bots and the presence of romantic whathaveyous in Transformers is that it not only shows a distinct lack of imagination when dealing with an alien/synthetic life form, but it represents that final breach of the suspension of disbelief. It's bad enough that Transformers even look human and act in basically human-like ways, but to bow to the biological mores that are so very specific to our programmed behaviour and our societal norms is pushing it too far.
 
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Old 2007-10-19, 09:17 AM   #12
Halfshell
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Yep.

I can buy masculine and feminine characteristics being prevalent in their behaviour. I can buy them cosmetically appearing to share physical traits we associate with male or female.

I can buy that they form emotional bonds between one another. Airazor and Tigatron are a good example.

At a massive stretch, the influence of Earth culture can even make me sort of accept the notion of a romantic-style attachment between them. Blackarachnia and Silverbolt illustrate this.

But to pigeonhole them as actually male or female based on the above is... well... silly. Especially when the only evidence of Transformer reproduction is entirely asexual.

The only Transformers I can think of who even come close to being the "offspring" of two others are Dinobot II and Tigerhawk. Neither of which were created by anything even remotely resembling our preconceived notion of sexual reproduction.

One was blank protoform instilled with the cloned "genetic" information of one robot and a surgically-removed portion of the spark of another.
Whilst the other is an amalgam of two bodies and sparks. Which actually shrinks the population, so can't really be classed as reproduction...

Short of building new TFs, the closest the race have been canonically shown to have to reproduction is the "biomorphic" cellular division illustrated in Generation 2. Which as we know had results so catastrophic that the entire race switched off their knowledge of it.
 

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Old 2007-10-19, 08:42 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally posted by Terome
The number of genders that a species has is pretty arbitary. It's only happenstance that sexual dimorphism is so prevalent among the animals with which we are most familiar. Bacteria get by fine with their single gender, as it's recently been discovered that they are able to swap genetic information when struck by
lightning.

Besides that, if Transformers were subject to the standard evolutionary pressures (which I wouldn't say they were, being artificial life forms), then all the behaviours we associate with breeding and sex would never evolve, as Transformers, being long-lived and hardy to the point of being immortal, would evolve an incredibly low rate of reproduction as a response to population pressure.

The reason that there's such an aversion to femme-bots and the presence of romantic whathaveyous in Transformers is that it not only shows a distinct lack of imagination when dealing with an alien/synthetic life form, but it represents that final breach of the suspension of disbelief. It's bad enough that Transformers even look human and act in basically human-like ways, but to bow to the biological mores that are so very specific to our programmed behaviour and our societal norms is pushing it too far.
I have to disagree that it breaks the suspension of disbelief. If anything, it makes them more relatable to the viewers and readers of the series, and thus adds to the suspension of disbelief. Genders, courtship, mating, are not tied to Humans, their tied to many life forms. All complex life forms are sexually reproductive and have their own courtship rituals. It isn't unique to humanity. Also, the more evolved and advanced, the more complex the rituals. Asexual reproduction is pretty much relegated to very simple life forms for a reason.
Quote:
Originally posted by Halfshell
Yep.

I can buy masculine and feminine characteristics being prevalent in their behaviour. I can buy them cosmetically appearing to share physical traits we associate with male or female.

I can buy that they form emotional bonds between one another. Airazor and Tigatron are a good example.

At a massive stretch, the influence of Earth culture can even make me sort of accept the notion of a romantic-style attachment between them. Blackarachnia and Silverbolt illustrate this.

But to pigeonhole them as actually male or female based on the above is... well... silly. Especially when the only evidence of Transformer reproduction is entirely asexual.

The only Transformers I can think of who even come close to being the "offspring" of two others are Dinobot II and Tigerhawk. Neither of which were created by anything even remotely resembling our preconceived notion of sexual reproduction.

One was blank protoform instilled with the cloned "genetic" information of one robot and a surgically-removed portion of the spark of another.
Whilst the other is an amalgam of two bodies and sparks. Which actually shrinks the population, so can't really be classed as reproduction...

Short of building new TFs, the closest the race have been canonically shown to have to reproduction is the "biomorphic" cellular division illustrated in Generation 2. Which as we know had results so catastrophic that the entire race switched off their knowledge of it.
It's not the only evidience. As I mentioned before, the Lithonians show families with children, and the Victory manga shows marriage and families as well. Secondly, most of the romantic relatiionships I mentioned above were in existance long before the Transformers went to Earth and encountered humans. Therefore, it is an inherent part of their evolution, not something they learned form their interaction with humans. Also, masculine and feminine characteristics serve no purpose in an asexual life form. Genders serve no purpose in an asxeual life form because their only purpose in a life form is reproductive. IF they were truly asexual in all continuities, then there would be no genders at all. Not masculine characteristics, no feminine characteristics. No males, no females. There would be no concept of gender at all, nor romance, no marriage, no children.
 

Last edited by Tramp; 2007-10-19 at 08:56 PM.
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Old 2007-10-19, 11:40 PM   #14
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Airazor displayed so few "female" characteristists the Japanese made her a man in the dub. Movie Bumblebee is basically a crazy bunny boiler type...
 
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Old 2007-10-19, 11:45 PM   #15
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They did the same with Override in Cybertron too, but they are female in US continuity. Also, Elita-1, Chromia, Moonracer, Firestar, Arcee, Beta, Black Arachnia, Paradron Medic, Thunderblast, these are all obviously and unquestionably female.
 
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Old 2007-10-19, 11:49 PM   #16
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Character wise BA isn't that far off Armada Starscream (sarcastic baddy who goes over to the goodies), only she's got more balls. Actually, G1 Starscream is such a big girl it was actually a surprise to find out the rumore about the French making him one was false...

Quote:
They did the same with Override in Cybertron too, but they are female in US continuity.
Takara approved continuity is just as valid with the Transformers Universal Omniverse though.
 
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Old 2007-10-20, 12:15 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally posted by Tramp
Technically, Gender refers to either identity or physical sex.
They'll be no physical sex round here young lad me bucko.

Actually, in terms of physical atributes, the seekers had a cleavage to die for, whilst any Transformer drawn by Pat Lee would have a big honking penis irregardless...
 
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Old 2007-10-20, 12:19 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally posted by inflatable dalek
They'll be no physical sex round here young lad me bucko.
ROFLMAO

Quote:
Actually, in terms of physical atributes, the seekers had a cleavage to die for, whilst any Transformer drawn by Pat Lee would have a big honking penis irregardless...
I won't argue with that.
 

Last edited by Tramp; 2007-10-20 at 12:43 AM.
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Old 2007-10-20, 12:31 AM   #19
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Tramp, you would honestly think after being kicked off 2 forums, and being told by almost everyone, including practically every senior member IN said forum's your robosex theories are complete BUNK, you'd give it up and admit you're wrong. Same with the "Ultimate guide is Transformers bible thing." And you'd also think you'd stop writing like you're talking down to people. BUt then again, you're not most people, are ya?
 
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Old 2007-10-20, 12:59 AM   #20
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No, I didn't, dropkick, and no, you haven't given any facts, you've given half-truths and personal interpretations of open ended statements. However, according to you, those ARE facts, so whatever. You clearly lack the integrity to tell yourself you're wrong, and just to stop trying to lie to people on forums about how you're right. You're the only person I know who would be the only person out of 6 billion plus people arguing something, with every single other person on the planet telling you're you're wrong, and you'd keep trying to tell them you're right.
 
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