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Old 2007-12-02, 03:54 AM   #1
Denyer
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Red face Liiiieeefeeeellllddd!

http://progressiveboink.com/archive/robliefeld.html

Have this been posted before? [/lolcat]

Bonus LAAAANNNNDD! --

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Greg_land_again.gif

Why are these people still getting comics work?
 
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Old 2007-12-02, 05:42 AM   #2
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Oh, oh...dear, that was wonderful.
wipes tears from eyes
I'm bookmarking this one.
Since it would be inappropriate to comment on the Human Torch/Thing bit, I'll simply mention Liefeld's talent of being a chauvinistic cock instead.

Quote:
Imagine me at age 12 getting to read a comic about how the big black naked bodybuilder uses the girls he dates. Now imagine me at 27 going over it again, laughing at how skeevy it is, and then noticing an absolute cavalcade of illogical nonsense horse**** about it. Nothing in these panels makes sense. I get what he's going for, he sits down at his drawing desk with his button-fly jeans and his backwards baseball cap, rubbing his chin and pondering what the new, hip comic book collector would like to read. So he spends at least a minute and a half drawing these pictures about a tough guy who wakes up, gets called in to work, and tells the woman he's had the have sex with that he's like dust in the wind. Liefeld smiles, pats himself on the back for a job well done, and slams a Dew.

Now, what is wrong with this, you may ask

well

It's 1:11 PM. That's the early afternoon. Chapel congratulates himself for "another night, another love." He uses the colloquial phrase "M'MAN" to show that sex with broads is no big d. So even though it's just past noon and he's "ABOVEGROUND," he's saying it's nighttime and his room is completely dark with a bunch of nighttime shadows on the wall.

The Youngblood communicator thing goes "eepBeep," a sound no-one has heard or capitalized in that fashion anywhere ever, and he tells her to wake up (at 1:11 PM, again, above ground, where the sun should be). She asks him for five more minutes of sleep, and he responds with NO PROMISES YOU KNOW THE WAY OUT. If she had said "ooh baby i'll be here when you get back" or "when can i see you again" it would've set her up as in awe of Chapel's manhood (which is what Rob's going for, I think), and the response would've shown Chapel as a hard womanizer who values his life as a soldier more than any woman he might take to bed. But she asks him for five minutes of sleep, so when he responds like that it makes him deaf, or some weird taskmaster of the alarm clock.

I don't think he's sleeping, though, because he's got his arms behind his head like he just finished up or is in a hammock, and depending on how long they've been there she's been sleeping with her face in his giant hairless armpit.

To recap, it's daytime but everybody acts like it's night, Chapel quips without being set up for it, and even though Chapel sleeps on a mattress on the floor his bedspread still gets a full hang. And in the second panel Chapel is coated in a fine mist.
Regretfully, I remember reading this particular issue when it originally came out waaaay back in the day, actually. This was when I actually read other comic books, back when fanboiz rabidly wanked over Jim Lee's work. Me being naive as I was, I never thought anything of it at the time (the Youngblood excerpt, I mean). Now I can only laugh at it regardless if its idiosyncrasies and it's ball scratching, chest pounding nature.
 

Last edited by zigzagger; 2007-12-02 at 05:46 AM.
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Old 2007-12-02, 05:48 AM   #3
Clay
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Not being a comic reader, that was an interesting read.

It's good to know I have the skills to be a world-reknowned comic book artist if other plans don't work out
 
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Old 2007-12-02, 09:56 AM   #4
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Here are a couple more land copies for those who havent seen them, pic heavy




















 
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Old 2007-12-02, 03:42 PM   #5
angloconvoy
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Been saying for year how terrible Liefeld is. He can't draw ankles or wrists for ****. I mean, neither can I, but then I'm an English teacher, not a comic artist. Take a look at 27, what the hell is with the proportions of Cap America's arm? And that's just a fraction of his horrors.
 

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Old 2007-12-02, 04:50 PM   #6
Silly Cow
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I'm just surprised Captain America's tit-picture didn't make the cut.

I remember when we first started to see Liefeld's "art" here in Finland (fall of 92) and I immediately hated it. The very strange looking boobs and appalling faces were too horrible to look at. I thought the Liefeld love was only a thing of the 90's, very surprised that he's still popular.
 
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Old 2007-12-02, 05:04 PM   #7
Cliffjumper
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Yeh, never liked the ****er either - Heroes Rebiorn was really up against it when they got him onboard. Great article, though - the guy starts off with these very precise criticisms, and then just gradually loses his rag. That's someone's brain just melting in HTML form.
 
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Old 2007-12-02, 07:30 PM   #8
inflatable dalek
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Question

But who'd win in a fight between him and Pat Lee?
 
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Old 2007-12-02, 08:04 PM   #9
Denyer
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The viewing public, and especially whoever got to apply poison to the lirpas.
 
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Old 2008-01-26, 12:04 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by inflatable dalek View Post
But who'd win in a fight between him and Pat Lee?
liefeld, his standup is better and pat lee's judo is cancelled by liefeld's excellent takedown defense.
 

. "Hawkeye's the best! Hawkeye's got the cutest eyes! Hawkeye's got some kinda butt! I swear, Ralph, ever since that blowhard joined up, all I hear is Hawkeye, Hawkeye, Hawk...."- Green Arrow, JLA/Avengers #3.
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Old 2008-01-27, 06:56 AM   #11
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You know, for the guy to hate Liefeld, he sure has an astonishing collection of his work.....

And yes, proportion and anatomy are ALL-important, and nothing that isn't spot-on to the human form is just garbage.


Like this:




Seriously, how does that guy on bottom's vestigial arm work in combat?

And this:




I don't know about you, but I've never seen facial features like that on anything not found in the adult novelty section.

Check out the legs on these guys - it's like early South Park, where everyone's just an immobile paper doll:




And really, what the hell is with this guy? Is he supposed to be a Furry, or something?




Garbage.
 

SCREAM MY NAME IN BINARY!!!!!!
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Old 2008-01-28, 04:08 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Highbrow View Post
[snip]
yes, but none of those artists (with the exception of mickey of course) have copied panel from panel of soemone else's work.
 

. "Hawkeye's the best! Hawkeye's got the cutest eyes! Hawkeye's got some kinda butt! I swear, Ralph, ever since that blowhard joined up, all I hear is Hawkeye, Hawkeye, Hawk...."- Green Arrow, JLA/Avengers #3.
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Old 2008-01-28, 04:35 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Highbrow View Post
Couple of points...

1) Personally I think The Scream is bollocks.
2) It's intended to be interpreted, not carry a story panel-to-panel and convey the plot and events of someone else's script to a reader.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Highbrow View Post
Check out the legs on these guys - it's like early South Park, where everyone's just an immobile paper doll:

Yes, there are reasons why -- since technology has moved on, and people got to grips with rendering three-dimensional things in two dimensions -- this form of chronicling history and important events/battles has fallen out of favour.

We don't chisel hieroglyphs into stone much these days either.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Highbrow View Post
And really, what the hell is with this guy? Is he supposed to be a Furry, or something?
Blaming Disney for the majority of yiffing-obsessed individuals out there would be entirely fair.

edit:
Quote:
for the guy to hate Liefeld, he sure has an astonishing collection of his work
Or he grew up as a kid in the 90s being bought this crap, and/or knows how to use teh intarwebs.
 
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Old 2008-01-28, 07:50 AM   #14
Highbrow
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawkeye View Post
yes, but none of those artists (with the exception of mickey of course) have copied panel from panel of soemone else's work.

Haven't they? Haven't all artists of the human form, or other expressions of such, copied from said human form, which they had no part in the original design? What really differentiates using a reference model from copying someone else's work? What if it were to be relabeled "Sampling" as is perfectly acceptable in the music world?


And Denyer.....what about my first example?


So you know, what I'm really saying, is that there are FAR greater travesties visited upon comicdom by Rob Liefeld than his artistic ability, unrealistic as it may be. If it was THAT bad, would it have sold? I personally detest the artistic stylings of Barry Windsor-Smith and Jae Lee, yet they still crank out the sales.

Example: What's worse - the way Liefeld draws Bloodwulf, or the fact that Bloodwulf existed at all?

Example 2: Bed/Badrock's image, or his dialogue?
 

SCREAM MY NAME IN BINARY!!!!!!
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Old 2008-01-28, 10:47 AM   #15
inflatable dalek
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Exclamation

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawkeye View Post
yes, but none of those artists (with the exception of mickey of course) work.

Mickey Mouse is an artist?
 
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Old 2008-01-28, 12:45 PM   #16
Hawkeye
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Highbrow View Post
Haven't they? Haven't all artists of the human form, or other expressions of such, copied from said human form, which they had no part in the original design? What really differentiates using a reference model from copying someone else's work? What if it were to be relabeled "Sampling" as is perfectly acceptable in the music world?


And Denyer.....what about my first example?


So you know, what I'm really saying, is that there are FAR greater travesties visited upon comicdom by Rob Liefeld than his artistic ability, unrealistic as it may be. If it was THAT bad, would it have sold? I personally detest the artistic stylings of Barry Windsor-Smith and Jae Lee, yet they still crank out the sales.

Example: What's worse - the way Liefeld draws Bloodwulf, or the fact that Bloodwulf existed at all?

Example 2: Bed/Badrock's image, or his dialogue?

yes but even in "sampling" the rap musician usually puts somethign different over the beats or changes it in some way. liefelds' copying is panel for panel. and he doesnt have to be the worst thing in creation to hate on him but come on no one who "homages" like that deserves to be working professionally.

yes he sold well but this was during the nineties when everythign sold well. whats missing from the market today is all the 12 year old kids who loved big beefy guys w/ giant shoulderpads and guns. just because something was succesfull doesnt mean it had any sort of artistic merit.
 

. "Hawkeye's the best! Hawkeye's got the cutest eyes! Hawkeye's got some kinda butt! I swear, Ralph, ever since that blowhard joined up, all I hear is Hawkeye, Hawkeye, Hawk...."- Green Arrow, JLA/Avengers #3.
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Old 2008-01-28, 01:07 PM   #17
Denyer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Highbrow View Post
what about my first example?
Not large enough to pick out detail, but I can probably say with confidence that early Japanese parchment work would be a poor choice of style to draw sequential art in for most comics.

Is Liefield being intentionally stylistic when he draws people with spines that don't work that way, that change from panel-to-panel, or with malformed hands, feet, etc? Occam's razor would suggest he's just a crap artist.

Or Land, to pick a recent one...



That sure is a nice cardboard cut-out Wolverine that Pixie's got there. (For anyone who hasn't noticed, look at the arm over his shoulder: the character has no depth and would be occupying the space the other character is standing in.)
 
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Old 2008-02-04, 04:15 PM   #18
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people are just mad at lifield becouse he left marvel and made real money
selling his image stuff
(younblood)
of coure it was stuff like this thet coused the comic bubble to eventualy pop.
 


Grew up, mellowed out.
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Old 2008-02-04, 07:06 PM   #19
inflatable dalek
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I thought were mad at him because he gave pat Lee his big break?
 
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Old 2008-02-04, 08:33 PM   #20
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I'm mad at him because he tried to screw the other founders of Image. That and all of the comics he had a large amount of creative control over were crap...
 
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