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Old 2007-12-30, 04:29 AM   #41
Tramp
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Quote:
Originally posted by Denyer
Make up your mind, or at least stop prevaricating on a subject you appear to have little or no knowledge of.
I know what the dictionary says in regards to the meaning of the word "gender" and how it is applied, and that is all I need to know. That is why I posted the definition from the Webster's online Dictionary.

Quote:
The Quintessons built and sold robots to other species, programming them with behaviour suitable for those tasks. There's no suggestion that this programmed behaviour was modelled on humans specifically, nor did I or others claim so. I realise you probably find it easier to argue strawmen, but again, stop making stuff up and trying to pass it off as fact.
The Quintessons built robots using Primus himself as their factory after subverting Vector Sigma with a shell program. as evidenced in issue #3 of Wreckers by 3H which is set in the G1 cartoon-Beast Machines continutiy.

http://members.aol.com/regenesis0/quintprimus2.jpg

Quote:
Most continuities do not mention genetic code.
Transformer Genetic code is mentioned in canon though, and is not contradicted in any continuity. That is a key point. No continuity denies Transformers having genetic code. In fact, at least two continuities specificaly refer to Transformers having genetic code. Both the Marvel continuity and the DW continuity refer to Transformers havign Genetic code. Marvel does it in the G2 comics, specifically here: and in DW it is repeatedly stated in MtMtE #8 on several pages. This we have at least two cooborationg sources.


Quote:
In most continuities, Transformers exhibit male or female behaviour (note: adjectival use of 'male' and 'female') -- they do not exhibit production of gametes (requisite for noun use, and pertaining to biological classification.) "A male Transformer" is not the same thing as "a Transformer who is a male".
No, in most continuities, they are referred to as male and female (noun, not adjective) Arcee, Elita-1, Chromia, Moonracer, Beta, Firestar, Black Arachinia, Override, Road Rage, Vibese, all of these are females. Esmeryl is female as well, She is a wife, and apparently a mother as well. They not only denote male and female behavior but also sexual dimorphism as well. Regardless, without actually being male and female, they would not exibit male or female charactertistics as such characteristics serve no function and therefore would have never developed in the first place.


Quote:
Gosh, it's almost as if you're claiming to be in the story, with this wealth of off-screen information you're surprising us with...
No, I just do a lot of research.


[quote]It shows a snapshot of time, and that in Lithonian culture there are robots of a variety of sizes. You can read into this, and apparently have been quite extensively.[quote] You might want to go and watch the movie again. Those aren't just Lithonians of various sizes. They are adults and children of various ages.





Quote:
Courtship is a pattern of behaviour, and you don't have any species with human-or-greater intelligence for comparison. You certainly don't have any machine intelligences to observe and see whether they court for companionship. If you define courtship to be things that only species that are sexually-reproducing do, courtship only exists in sexually-reproducing species (which is what Vanguard's talking about with the logic, methinks.)
Courtship is a pattern of behaviour which serves a very specific function which is the selection of a mate for the purpose of sexual reproduction. Even in humans the fundamental purpose for romance which is courtship, is to find a mate. That ius its most fundamental function. Companionship is a secondary benefit. This is no less true for humans. Just because we apply other purposes, does not eliminate thee underlying fundamemtal purpose.


Quote:
Implied... suggested... not shown... interesting way of dressing up the fact of something not being present in the story.
Implied because it cannot be shown explicitly given the target audience, just as Carly and Spike having sex to produce Daniel is implict, not explicit. We kniow they did it, they didn't need to show it.

Quote:
Such as? Wheelie, for instance, has a couple of sources mentioning the existence of others he regards as parents, but isn't described as created by or from them. Even in human culture, being a parent is very much a role rather than necessarily implying biological offspring.
Primarily, it is implying biological offspring unless specifically otherwiswe stated. The implication when we say, "This is my mother and father," is that they are our biological parents, unless we specifcially state otherwise. I see no reason to believe that this is not the case with Wheelie and the other children as well.

Quote:
Anyway, it's interesting that by far the majority of TF creations we see involve a matrix, matrix flame, the Allspark, Quintessons, Vector Sigma, Wheeljack goofing off and putting shock troops together in his lab, re-activation of existing brain modules, etc. Gametes, metal growing in the same way as flesh, new life being formed from the fusion of two or more existing ones, and so on and so forth... rarely (if ever) get a look-in.
It may be rare, but that does not mean it doewsn't happen, nor does it mean that they can't. Just because we are developing ways to artifically create life through cloning, genetic engineering, etc. does not mean we will lose the capability to reproduce through sex. Why would being able to build new Transformers from protoforms eliminate them from reproducing through some sexual means? The simple fact is that it wouldn't.
Quote:
The entire galaxy doesn't speak English, either. Literary construct.
No, the entire galaxy doesn't, but they do have the same concepts, at least in fiction, and the stories are written in English, and the Transformers do exhibit many of the same physical characteristics as Humans.

Vangard tried to say I am using a logical fallacy, when actually, it is the other way around. The fallacy is the beliefe that because Transformers are not organic life, that they're mechanically-based robotic life, that they can't reproduce through any other means than being built, that because they're robotic that they can't reproduce sexually. That is the fallacy. There is no reason why a robotic species of life could not reproduce through some sexual means. None whatsoever. The Marvel comics continuity is the only continuity where the Tranbsformers were asexual and did not have inherent genders. In every other continuity, they have clear sexes and evidence of courtship, romantic rivalries, marriage and children, all of which is indicitive of sexual reproduction being evident among Transformers. The only thing we don't see is the act itself, anf that is not only unnecessary, but something they could not show even if they wanted to because it is innapropriate for children, the series' target audience.
 
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Old 2007-12-30, 08:30 PM   #42
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I hate when people debate about fictional characters...
 


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Old 2007-12-30, 08:39 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally posted by Tramp

Data was shown to be "alive" from a legal, not scientific stand point. Scientifically, no, he isn't a life form. He lacks at least one, if not more necessary life processes—the ability to self-propagate. I believe he may also lack the abilty to maintain homeostasis, though he may indeed have that capability. He certainly can't grow physically.
I guess you missed the episode where he made a daughter? Nor the ones with his evil Brother in? Or his Mother?

The thing to remember about Transformers is that even if you think that gender based reproduction is the only way for complicated lifeforms to do it (and I personally don't, I've no doubt that when and if we meet other life they'll have ways of reproducing we've never even thought of), in just about every continuity the Cybertronians are an artificial rather than a naturally occuring species. They're either made from bits of God or built on a assembly line.
 
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Old 2007-12-30, 08:48 PM   #44
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Made from bits of God

I ****ing love Air Raid. He took Dirge, Popeman and the Cardinal to bits single-handedly while the rest of the idiots were ****ing around killing humans and having moronic vertigo issues (though this isn't quite as stupid as it was on the telly). And then they form Superion and it all goes to ****. There's no need for Superion, Air Raid will take 'em all down.

I'm going to go find my Air Raid figure.
 
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Old 2007-12-30, 08:51 PM   #45
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But can he shag?
 
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Old 2007-12-30, 08:59 PM   #46
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Originally posted by inflatable dalek
But can he shag?
He's black with white and red undersides, and there's those lovely foil stickers you just can't get on anything any more (silver, red, yellow); he's an F-15 fighter jet and his function is doing ludicrously dangerous things for no readily apparent reason. He could **** so hard he'd make John Holmes look like Garzett.
 
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Old 2007-12-30, 09:02 PM   #47
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Oh, and I have to say all of my sexual relations ahve been with people I'd never, ever want to have children with. I must be doing it wrong.
 
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Old 2007-12-30, 09:39 PM   #48
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A shag:


 

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Old 2007-12-30, 09:40 PM   #49
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Quote:
Originally posted by Tramp
I know what the dictionary says in regards to the meaning of the word "gender" and how it is applied, and that is all I need to know.
Not if you're going to start a conversation with me on the subject of language and make claims that're verifiable as false to anyone with the most basic grounding. Particularly not if your response is to change the subject and get uppity about the claims being noted as bogus.

Quote:
Originally posted by Tramp
The Quintessons built robots using Primus himself as their factory after subverting Vector Sigma with a shell program. as evidenced in issue #3 of Wreckers by 3H which is set in the G1 cartoon-Beast Machines continutiy.
Wreckers takes other continuities as a base. The inverse is not true; those continuities do not include material from Wreckers. There have been many continuities that take material from the original US show as a base.

Quote:
Originally posted by Tramp
and is not contradicted in any continuity
Absence is not proof of presence. Invisible pink unicorns do not exist in each continuity merely because they cannot be disproven.

Quote:
Originally posted by Tramp
Esmeryl is female
Indeed. There is not substantive evidence that the character is a female (nor likely to be, given the intended audience of the fiction.)

Quote:
Originally posted by Tramp
They are adults and children of various ages.
Conjecture. Regardless of attaching "clearly" and "obviously" to statements in a quest for validation, we do not see Lithonians age. If there are members of their society that are referred to as children, there is no evidence of their creation occurring via sexual reproduction. Meanwhile, we do have evidence for various robots in the original show being created by building bodies and programming consciousness into them.

Quote:
Originally posted by Tramp
Companionship is a secondary benefit. This is no less true for humans. Just because we apply other purposes, does not eliminate thee underlying fundamemtal purpose.
Purpose is something gods have, not evolution. I'd highly recommend a text such as The Blind Watchmaker if you have a genuine interest in biology.

A species that creates life programmatically would not be considered a species in scientific terms (nor, under some definitions, be considered life.)

Quote:
Originally posted by Tramp
The implication when we say, "This is my mother and father," is that they are our biological parents, unless we specifcially state otherwise.
We are not Transformers. We were not (as far as we know) created by an older race as servants for other organics, and programmed to behave in certain ways.

Quote:
Originally posted by Tramp
Why would being able to build new Transformers from protoforms eliminate them from reproducing through some sexual means?
Why would sexual reproduction have existed in order that it could be eliminated, given that Transformers were created by an older race or force rather than evolving from simple cellular organisms?

(Though maybe not in the new IDW continuity -- we've seen one race transitioning from organic to technological.)

Quote:
Originally posted by Tramp
We kniow they did it
We do not know whether Daniel is the biological offspring of Carly and Spike.

Quote:
Originally posted by Tramp
that because they're robotic that they can't reproduce sexually
Sexual reproduction is amphimixis; the fusion of gametes from two organisms. It's characterised by meiosis and a process of fertilisation that allows the genetic data from two organisms to recombine into a full set. A set of chromosomes represent the genetic template for an entire organism to grow.

Which of these aspects do we observe with Transformers? Certainly not reproductive organs. Some continuities reference genetic material and cellular configurations -- Marvel G2, for example, which uses them to demonstrate parthenogenesis, rather than amphimixis. Dreamwave's main continuity, as far as I recall, demonstrated reproduction by neither. Genetic material is not evidence of reproduction by amphimixis.

So that we don't see recombinant DNA or gestation, would be the main logical reasoning against sexual reproduction... the common evidence of TFs being created programatically is a further detraction from the likelihood.

What we do know is that TFs adopt behavioural patterns from organics, which seems a more 'clear' or 'obvious' explanation for the limited number of relationships we would define as familial or romantic.
 
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Old 2007-12-30, 09:45 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally posted by optimusskids
Here we go unused Bio for Downshift, Autobots have trouble telling men and women apart therefore indicating an unfamiliarity with different genders.

Autobot Celica
Code Name: Downshift
Function: Air Defense

Profile: Nothing pleases Downshift...or so he thought. Back on Cybertron this battle-weary soldier had fought for so many millennia that he began to wonder whether it was worth it for him to continue. But once he came to Earth he found everything around him fresh and new and he delighted in all his optical sensors saw. He particularly enjoys the company of human children, or, as he likes to call them, mini-men and mini-women (although he has as much trouble telling them apart as his fellow Autobots). His sullenness about the Autobots' mission is often of concern to Optimus Prime, but he generally follows orders, however grudgingly, because deep down he knows this truth: the unending Autobot resistance is preferable to a rapid Decepticon victory.

Abilities: In robot mode, Downshift carries twin ground-to-air rocket launchers on his shoulders. The rockets use magnetism to guide their path, limiting them to mostly iron and steel targets, such as Decepticons. The launchers can also be used while he's in his car mode, making Downshift a very effective covert warrier. In either mode, the rockets can travel up to 30 miles and pack the explosive equivalent of a half ton of TNT. He also wields a "rust rifle" which shoots a stream of powerful liquid oxidizing agents. A blast of this can seriously harm and debilitate a metallic foe.

Weaknesses: Downshift' s weapons are mostly ineffective against non-ferrous materials, a fact that can be used to his disadvantage by an opponent. His soldierly instincts are often hampered by his sullen moods.
Skids. Read the Cybertron comic put out by Fun Publications for the collectors club. Downshift has a female lifemate and retired with her to Rhode Island.

Quote:
Originally posted by inflatable dalekI guess you missed the episode where he made a daughter? Nor the ones with his evil Brother in? Or his Mother?
He built his "daughter", his Evil twin borther was also built, and his "mother" helped in hiss design and programming. Data can't self-propagate.

Quote:
The thing to remember about Transformers is that even if you think that gender based reproduction is the only way for complicated lifeforms to do it (and I personally don't, I've no doubt that when and if we meet other life they'll have ways of reproducing we've never even thought of), in just about every continuity the Cybertronians are an artificial rather than a naturally occuring species. They're either made from bits of God or built on a assembly line.
Cybertronians aren't artificial. The very first 13 were literally born from Primus' own body. They weren't built. They grew out of Cybertron itself, the very body of Primus, and Primus is, technically, a Transformer himself. He is the god of the Transformers. As for reproduction, regardless of its form, Asexual or sexual, it must still be self-propagation, not throiugh outside means. That is why viruses are not classified as life forms by the greater scientific community. They require host cells in order to reproduce by converting those cells into factories. Viruses cannot replicate any other way, nor can they maintain homeostasis. Yes, Transformers can build new members, and often do, then imbue them with life, but that does not mean that they can't reproduce sexually. A number of canon sources specifically state that they do have other options than building new Cybertronians from protoforms. Marvel had them budding. the Cartoon and Japanese manga show strong evidence of sexual reproduction through the Transformers having sexes, engaging in courtship and marriage, and having families including actual children. In fact, every continuity except the Marvel continuity has Trasnformers having true genders. There are males and females, and have always had males and females.

Understand, sexual reproduction does not require individuals to be either male or female. Look at gastorpods like worms and slugs. They're hermaphrodites with each animal having both sexes. However, Sexual reproductive capability is required for a species to have genders. Being male or female requires the capability to reproduce through some sexual means be that actual intercourse like we do, releasing an egg which is then fertilized externally, or pollenation as in plants. Regardless, if a life form has genders, if it has males and females, it has the capability to reproduce sexually because that is what being male or female is for. That is the only function genders, I.E. sexes, have.

Quote:
Oh, and I have to say all of my sexual relations ahve been with people I'd never, ever want to have children with. I must be doing it wrong.
That is a conscious decision on your part. It does not eliminate the most fundamental function of sex or genders, which is reproduction, not recreation. That is why every time males and females have intercourse, there is always the chance of conception, because that is what it is for. Physiologically, it serves no other function.

Think about this too. At least one female Transformer has clear sexual characteristics not part of their armor. Thunderblast from Cybertron has actual breasts under her armor. In the show, there are many scenes in which we get a partial glimpse of them. One of the best is when Lori challenges her and she is leading Lori and Windsabre towards the water. Her breasts can be seen bouncing back and forth as she runs. It's actually quite funny. The ancient Transformer, Beta, also had actual breasts, and was clearly female.

You can't have males or females without sexual reproduction.
 
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Old 2007-12-30, 09:57 PM   #51
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Quote:
Originally posted by Tramp
It does not eliminate the most fundamental function of sex or genders, which is reproduction
Again, reproduction and evolution do not have a purpose. People have purposes, and attribute them to mythical beings and physical processes.

Quote:
Originally posted by Tramp
Thunderblast from Cybertron has actual breasts under her armor. In the show, there are many scenes in which we get a partial glimpse of them. One of the best is when Lori challenges her and she is leading Lori and Windsabre towards the water. Her breasts can be seen bouncing back and forth as she runs.
Good job digital media doesn't wear as quickly as analogue, eh? Though the same probably can't be said for your remote control / mouse / keyboard...
 
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Old 2007-12-30, 10:20 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally posted by somebody... I'm guessing Tramp... I have it on ignore, so can't be certain
Canon also says that they have genetic code.
One bit of canon does. Lots of the canon is incompatible with other parts. Most of us use logic to filter out the inconsistencies into the most sensible explanation.

As far as tittybots go, Prime's Rib is canon. And I stand by it to the death. I'm not particularly fussed whose.
 
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Old 2007-12-30, 10:27 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally posted by Denyer
Again, reproduction and evolution do not have a purpose. People have purposes, and attribute them to mythical beings and physical processes.


Good job digital media doesn't wear as quickly as analogue, eh? Though the same probably can't be said for your remote control / mouse / keyboard...

Gotta love the thought of metallic, robot boobs.. I can't contribute because I am laughing too damned hard at the moment at the escalation of this topic into a debate also .
 
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Old 2007-12-30, 10:29 PM   #54
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Quote:
Originally posted by Springer007
Gotta love the thought of metallic, robot boobs..
Keep... hurgh... going *fap* *fap* *fap* *fap* *fap* *fap* *fap*



Mmm, Warptits...
 
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Old 2007-12-30, 10:32 PM   #55
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Red face

On reflection, I would like to point out that when I refer to Tramp as "it", I do so not as an attempt to paint Tramp as inhuman.

I feel it is my obligation to explain that, without photographic evidence of what Tramp's upper body looks like, I can't in good conscience commit myself to a gender-specific term.

I mean what if she's flat chested (or pre-pubescent)? Or if he has man-boobs? I'd never live down the embarassment.
 

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Old 2007-12-30, 10:33 PM   #56
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Quote:
Originally posted by Cliffjumper
Keep... hurgh... going *fap* *fap* *fap* *fap* *fap* *fap* *fap*



Mmm, Warptits...
Manly pecs, please.....
 

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Old 2007-12-30, 10:37 PM   #57
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I was just thinking about Prime's Rib there are too many continuity's to mould into 1 whole

E.g the 2 conflicting Goldbug origins.


If you look at Bugly's inner robot he's got breast's and a streamlined design but no one think's he's female.
 

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Old 2007-12-30, 10:37 PM   #58
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Quote:
Originally posted by Clogs
Manly pecs, please.....
Where is your proof? I see (or want to see) robotits. Actual contradictory evidence has no place in my world where what I want to be true is the only possible outcome. I'll ignore whatever I have to to get my way, you see if I don't.
 
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Old 2007-12-30, 10:39 PM   #59
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Quote:
Originally posted by Cliffjumper
Keep... hurgh... going *fap* *fap* *fap* *fap* *fap* *fap* *fap*



Mmm, Warptits...
You kill me with your humor Cliffy *falls out of his chair and has a heart attack*.

I only found one pic on wikipedia of Thunder boobies lol. I have to say, I've seen better XD. I think Blackarachnia in B.W. had better tits to be truthful, they at least jiggled and bounced. I and other fanboys always thought "they gotta be filled with poison".
 

Last edited by Springer007; 2007-12-30 at 10:45 PM.
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Old 2007-12-30, 10:52 PM   #60
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Originally posted by Denyer
Not if you're going to start a conversation with me on the subject of language and make claims that're verifiable as false to anyone with the most basic grounding. Particularly not if your response is to change the subject and get uppity about the claims being noted as bogus.
I never did want to discuss "grammarical" gender, as in word gender. Only the definition of gender as it applies to life forms, which is the second definition.


Quote:
Wreckers takes other continuities as a base. The inverse is not true; those continuities do not include material from Wreckers. There have been many continuities that take material from the original US show as a base.
Oh no it doews noit. Wrecjkers is specifcially set in the G1 cartoon universe. Read issue number 1 which is on line on the fanclub web site. It is specifically set in the G1 cartoon continuity. the spread I posted earlier is specifically written to reconcile the Quintesson origin established in Five Faces of Darkness with the Primus origin established by Hasbro, thus appying Primus as the one true creator of all Transformers in every continutiy within the TF multiverse. that spread in Wreckers #3 is an official retcon to the G1 cartoon, and is just as canon as the G1 cartoon.


Quote:
Absence is not proof of presence. Invisible pink unicorns do not exist in each continuity merely because they cannot be disproven.
actuall,y the saying is "absence of proof is not proof of absence." The same goes true for sexual reproduction. We don't see them having intercourse, yet, we do see Genders, courtship, marriage and children, all of which is exclusively indictive of sexual reproduction. The same holds true of Transformers having genes. We have a number of canon sources from multiple continuities which clearly show genders as well as genetics. Only one continuity specifically states they;re genderless, and none deny they have genetics. Therefore, we have clear proff Transformers have genetic code and clear proof they have genders in all but one continuity. There is no absence. There is precence of proof.

Quote:
Indeed. There is not substantive evidence that the character is a female (nor likely to be, given the intended audience of the fiction.)
Sure it is. These characers are specifically stated as being female. Arcee, Elita-1, Moonracer, etc. are all specifically stated as being females. Cybertron Override is specifically states as being a girl, a female. Thuinderblast is specifically referred to as a female in her toy bio. Note the phrase as a female. Read her toy bio. It is very specific. Males and females. And as for Esmeryl, yes, she is a female. In particualr, she is Deathsaurus' wife. She is married to him and mother to his children. The Decepticon children in Victory are the children of all of the Decepticons and their respective wives, including Deathsaurus, the Dinoforce, Leozak, etc. and there were a lot of children of varying ages.


Quote:
Conjecture. Regardless of attaching "clearly" and "obviously" to statements in a quest for validation, we do not see Lithonians age. If there are members of their society that are referred to as children, there is no evidence of their creation occurring via sexual reproduction. Meanwhile, we do have evidence for various robots in the original show being created by building bodies and programming consciousness into them.
It isn't conjecture. Is it conjecture when we see a pack of wolves with young of varying ages that they are adults and young? No. It's a given. It's self-evident. You can tell just from observation. IF it were just one animal, isolated, then it would be conjecture, not when we see them in population. Through observation within a population it is clear that these are the same species and that there are adults and young of varying ages, both males and females. It is not conjecture. As for seing vearousTransformers being built?Most definately we do. However, if you notice, every one we see built is built as a fully formed adult. Not one is built as a child. There would be no point to do so. Why would they? The point of building them from protoforms and imbuing them with a spark is to bring in new warriors as fast as possible. A child would be useless for that purpose. Thus created Transformers are created as adults, not small children, not babies. The examples we see with the Lithonians and the Decepticon children are examples of babies and small children. The Decepticon children in Victory are specifically called such in the manga itself. They are the offspring of the Decepticons and their wives.


Quote:
Purpose is something gods have, not evolution. I'd highly recommend a text such as The Blind Watchmaker if you have a genuine interest in biology.
Oh, uyes, it does. Its purpose is to ensure the survival of the species. It's purpose is to further life. That is its purpose.

Quote:
A species that creates life programmatically would not be considered a species in scientific terms (nor, under some definitions, be considered life.)
Then nothing is life, because all life is "programmed" for survival, all species are "programmed" to reproduce. That programming is in our genes. That is what DNA is, it's a program, a code.


Quote:
We are not Transformers. We were not (as far as we know) created by an older race as servants for other organics, and programmed to behave in certain ways.
Not unless you believe in God or some other higher power. Even in canon, there are those among Cybertronians who believe that they arose from "atechnogenesis"—technological life arising spontaniously from nothing. Now, we know thgat isn't the case, but many Cybertronians within the variious continuities believed that. No, we are not Transformers, by the same token, We are life, and Transfoemrs are also life. They aren't non-living machines like Earth robots. They are fully life forms. Theya re organisms just as we are. The only difference is their base physiology. We're carbon-based organics, they're mechanically based.


Quote:
Why would sexual reproduction have existed in order that it could be eliminated, given that Transformers were created by an older race or force rather than evolving from simple cellular organisms?
Transforrmers do have cells. They're nanomachine-based. Why wouldn't they be capable of sexual reproduction? Because they aren't orgasnic? that is not a valid reason. In fact, there is no reason why they wouldn't be capable of it. Theoretically, given the advancements in our own robotics technology, we could one day create self-reproducing robots on Earth. One day, Earth robots could become true life forms. It is not impossible. Why could Transformers not also be capable of sexual reproduction? There is no reason why they can't.

Quote:
(Though maybe not in the new IDW continuity -- we've seen one race transitioning from organic to technological.)
Beast Machines hinted at Transformers once being organic as well in that series.


Quote:
We do not know whether Daniel is the biological offspring of Carly and Spike.
Yes, we do. Daniel looks like his father for starters. There is clear familial resemblance. Even if he weren't their biological son, he would still be someone's biological son. We don't need to see his birth to know he was born of two parents.


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Sexual reproduction is amphimixis; the fusion of gametes from two organisms. It's characterised by meiosis and a process of fertilisation that allows the genetic data from two organisms to recombine into a full set. A set of chromosomes represent the genetic template for an entire organism to grow.
Exactly. and there is no reason why Transformers can't reproduce that way. They are nanomachine based according to multiple canon sources. They have genetic code which, based upon some on-line research I did on nanomachines, is itself likely nanite-based, contained within larger nanite organells within a Transformer's nanomachine cells which in turn make up said Transformer's body. They have the capabilty to heal through their nanite-based regenerative systems. Thus, nanomachine gametes are not out of the realm of possibility. Gametes which contain their genetic code as well as a fragment of their sparks, which when fused, begins the growth of a new life, and the eventual birth of a baby Transformer, which, we already have examples of in canon. We don't see the conception, nor birth, but we do see the babies and children. It's simple deduction. Males and females, courtship, competition for a mate, marriage, babies and children. It all adds up to one conclusion. Transfoemrs are capable of some form of sexual reproduction. There really isn't any other conclusion that can logically be drawn. Just because they're not organic, but are instead robotic does not change that conclusion.

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Which of these aspects do we observe with Transformers? Certainly not reproductive organs. Some continuities reference genetic material and cellular configurations -- Marvel G2, for example, which uses them to demonstrate parthenogenesis, rather than amphimixis. Dreamwave's main continuity, as far as I recall, demonstrated reproduction by neither. Genetic material is not evidence of reproduction by amphimixis.
Genetic material is definately evidence of reproduction. Genes are the basic components of reproduction, either sexual or asexual. They are what is passed on from parent to offspring and what drives evolution. Marvel is the only continuity in which Transformers are specifically stated as being asexual and genderless. It is unique in that fact. All other continuities show Transfoemrs to have genders. They all show them to be male and female. Thus, you can't say because in Marvel, they are genderless, that they are in all realities, because all other realities directly contradict that.

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So that we don't see recombinant DNA or gestation, would be the main logical reasoning against sexual reproduction... the common evidence of TFs being created programatically is a further detraction from the likelihood.
No, it isn't just as our developing abiklity to clone organisms does not detract our likelyhood of reproducing naturally through sex. All it means is that they have other options as well.

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What we do know is that TFs adopt behavioural patterns from organics, which seems a more 'clear' or 'obvious' explanation for the limited number of relationships we would define as familial or romantic.
No, because they have been engaging in these activities since their inception, long before they encountered organic species like us. Orian Pax and Ariel, the future Optimus Prime and Elita-1 in the cartoon continuity, were a couple five million years before he left for Earth, and Humans hadn't even evolved yet. Theyr behavior has nothing at all to do with opying organic behavior. It is natural for them to engage in courtship and such. It isn't copied behavior. They are male and female, they engage in courtship and marriage etc. because it is inherent to them as a species. It isn't copied behavior. Just because they're robotic does not mean that they can't be sexually reproductive. The idea that they can't becasue they're robotic life is the real logical fallacy. If they were organic there would be no question that they're sexually reproductive. Why should their being robotic make any difference in that regard? It shouldn't.
 
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