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Old 2008-11-19, 08:12 PM   #1
Jetfire
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Default BNP membership leaked online. Karma or invasion of privacy?

I had a chuckle in the staffroom with everybody else. People at my school were somewhat annoyed and disturbed that teachers were part of the BNP at some point (list is two years old).

I'm not entirely sure I'm happy that teachers can join the BNP, generally as long as it doesn't affect their professional conduct. While I know the BNP has sold ifself as legit these days and are picking off the working class Labour have abandoned and shat over and the Liberals don't care for but to my mind to still have to have some strong feelings to actually join them.
 

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Old 2008-11-19, 08:58 PM   #2
inflatable dalek
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Well, can't it be both karma and the invasion of privacy at the same time?

As for teachers, as reprehensible (if faintly useless) as the BNP are they're not actually an illegal party so there's no reason for not allowing them to join. I'm sure a lot of teachers have a lot more dodgy things in their past to be honest.
 
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Old 2008-11-19, 09:19 PM   #3
Denyer
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Streisand_effect

Currently available from the Pirate Bay by the looks of it... even a live postcode search at http://www.localgibson.com/bnp/ -- though whether all of the lists in circulation are genuine, rather than adulterated...
 
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Old 2008-11-19, 09:36 PM   #4
Jetfire
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Quote:
Originally Posted by inflatable dalek View Post
Well, can't it be both karma and the invasion of privacy at the same time?
My thoughts. Technically a bad thing, bt it's not actually bad.

Quote:
As for teachers, as reprehensible (if faintly useless) as the BNP are they're not actually an illegal party so there's no reason for not allowing them to join. I'm sure a lot of teachers have a lot more dodgy things in their past to be honest.
Some do. Funny enough, by the nature of the job, I'd say most don't from what I see.

Which makes the question why in the past were the BNP allowed to remain illegal. Yes they are apparently more legit (on the surface) today but I seriously doubt in part supported by whatever News Media keeps secretely filming them and catching them being vile racist wankers whenever they think nobody is watching them.

It's one of those consessions to honest freedom and liberty which make me puke.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Denyer View Post
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Streisand_effect

Currently available from the Pirate Bay by the looks of it... even a live postcode search at http://www.localgibson.com/bnp/ -- though whether all of the lists in circulation are genuine, rather than adulterated...
That was one of the things which made me laugh. Everytime somebody tries to sensor the internet, what they are trying to sensor become more widely spread. I didn't realise it had a name.

You could get it off wikilekes at one point.
 

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Old 2008-11-20, 03:06 AM   #5
angloconvoy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by inflatable dalek View Post
Well, can't it be both karma and the invasion of privacy at the same time?

As for teachers, as reprehensible (if faintly useless) as the BNP are they're not actually an illegal party so there's no reason for not allowing them to join. I'm sure a lot of teachers have a lot more dodgy things in their past to be honest.
Inflatable Dalek and the Karmic Invasion! Err, sorry

Anyway, while I'm sure most teachers don't have worse things in their past (subjectively), I'm still sure a lot do. Its a question of freedom of choice, and the more freedom of choice these people have, the more open they can be. Which makes it much easier to see what they're up do.
 

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Old 2008-11-20, 09:32 AM   #6
Halfshell
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jetfire View Post
You could get it off wikilekes at one point.
Still can.

Not that I'd condone that.

At some point there may or may not have been a live link to the relevant WL page from the Wiki article. Fortunately some responsible soul edited the URL out so there's no possible way of retrieving it...
 
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Old 2008-11-20, 02:37 PM   #7
Clogs
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Brilliant idea! Let's leak a whole load of names and addresses... So, what's to say all the names are legit, eh? And surely, if the info is at least two years old, then there might well be new tenants in the properties identified. Way to go at setting someone up for a fall (if anyone decides to act against the BNP) they don't deserve!

Now, it couldn't have happened to a nicer bunch of people, but I rather wish it hadn't happened at all.
 

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Old 2008-11-20, 04:24 PM   #8
RID Scourge
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Denyer View Post
though whether all of the lists in circulation are genuine, rather than adulterated...
Aye. That'd be a very valid concern. "Hey folks! I managed to track down that list of BNP members, and look who's on it--that guy I hate! What a coincidence!" Red scare, anyone?
 
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Old 2008-11-20, 06:53 PM   #9
electro girl
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Karmic justice indeed, I have no sympathy for the BNP whatsoever, they can appear as legit as they like but their members are still a bunch of c***s and i've had the displeasure of knowing at least two. While I wouldnt condone any aggresive action agaist these peoples households (especially with the risk of mistaken identity due to a two year old list) if it does happen then I shall not be shedding any tears.
 

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Old 2008-11-20, 09:34 PM   #10
inflatable dalek
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jetfire View Post
Some do. Funny enough, by the nature of the job, I'd say most don't from what I see.
By worse things I don't mean illegal or instant sacking stuff, just that most teachers (like most people full stop) probably have things they really wouldn't want the pupils finding out about in their past. Imagine say if someone made a list of every porn film you've ever watched available to the people you teach, all those lesbian schoolgirl orgy videos you had when you were 18 would come back and bite you in the ass as badly as this. [All hypethetical examples people, for all I know Jetfire has never owned any porn. Or gets off on people dressed as Smurfs].

Quote:
Which makes the question why in the past were the BNP allowed to remain illegal. Yes they are apparently more legit (on the surface) today but I seriously doubt in part supported by whatever News Media keeps secretely filming them and catching them being vile racist wankers whenever they think nobody is watching them.
Because you can't ban them as a political party until they start actively doing illegal stuff (this assumes there is some sort of mechanism for making political parties illegible to stand for election, anyone confirm if there is or isn't?). All the BNP's official policies and stances are as extreme right wing as British politics ever gets and extremely stupid (though that doesn't stop the Raving Loonies fielding candidates) but firmly in the "We need curbs on immigration" territory rather than "Kill all black people dead". If you were to ban parties because they don't say what they mean in their manifestos you'd have none left.

Equally, whilst they're full on when they think no ones looking the relatively small number of people signed up mean there are likely to be as many pathetic racists moaning to each other when they think no ones looking in the big two parties as well (certainly the tories anyway).
 
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Old 2008-11-20, 10:19 PM   #11
Jetfire
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There is a fantastic article in the Evening Standard today by Andrew Gilligan pointimg out the fact the list is so small, so lacking in educated people and even weak in their susposed bases of power the BNP are really a joke party who get to much publicity:

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standa...ses/article.do

Quote:

Now we know what little threat the BNP poses



THE SUN is said to have an entire team combing through it. The News of the World is on the case. Even the FT, it's claimed, is looking for financial fascists to name and shame. But to my mind one of the most interesting things about this week's leaked BNP "membership list" is that so far, nearly three days after it was published on the web, the best-known figure to have been found on it is a stand-in DJ on talkSPORT Radio.

Given some of the things they say, it would frankly be bigger news if some talk radio presenters were not sympathisers of the far-Right (the DJ concerned, it must be stressed, claims he joined the BNP as part of an "undercover investigation"). We await whatever Fleet Street's finest may find. But what struck me, looking through the list, was the comparative modesty of most of the addresses on it.

It does seem that the BNP is broadly what we always suspected, a party of relatively small numbers of the skilled working class and lower-middle class from overwhelmingly white, medium-sized provincial towns. There are relatively few from London, and remarkably few from the London postal districts, suggesting that once people live with others of a different race, they learn not to fear them (of course it might also reflect a lower-than-average pool of potential members, and fewer recruiting efforts, in these areas).

The fact that the list makes special note of those members with higher education (one is described proudly as a "chartered mechanical engineer" and "MD of high-pressure water pump firm"), and there are only five acknowledged civil servants and 15 teachers on it, also suggests we need not fear that BNP sleepers are in a position to seize the commanding heights of British society and politics.

That is not intended to be snobbish. All political parties need a wide range of supporters from all walks of life. But if Labour and the Tories have too many lawyers and lobbyists and not enough bricklayers and butchers, for the BNP the problem is clearly the reverse. And, despite a rather favourable recent political climate for racist ideas, there are so few of them! Twelve and a half thousand names from a population of 60 million, and even this probably an overestimate. The list includes many whose subscriptions have lapsed.

The BNP, as in all crises, is giving us a convincing impression of a headless henhouse (pure-breed chickens only, please). And this leak is clearly damaging. It shows a lack of discipline, competence and security, and is a clear deterrent to present and would-be members. Would you want to join "Britain's foremost patriotic party" if you thought that the fact of your membership, together with your home address, would be advertised on the internet?

But in other ways it might help them. The BNP feeds on two things: media attention, and the politics of victimhood. It's getting both this week. Membership of the BNP is legal, and it is clearly both wrong and illegal for ordinary private citizens' personal details to be published like this. The right to privacy, like any other right, is meaningless if it applies only to people of whom we approve.

And even if we cannot feel too troubled by the (probably minor) victimisation awaiting those on the list, or the capital the BNP will try to make from that, we should be troubled by the growing tendency of opportunist mainstream politicians to use the party, hateful as it is, as a whipping boy to bolster their own dodgy causes. The cry that "if you don't vote for me/ support this policy" you will be "boosting the BNP" has been abused by politicos from Ken Livingstone to Phil Woolas. Mr Woolas has used it to justify some rhetoric not a million miles from the BNP's own.

Parts of the policing establishment recently invoked the spectre of BNP evil against government plans for directly elected police authorities. Bob Jones, chairman of the Association of Police Authorities, warned (absurdly) that policing could be "hijacked" by the BNP if elections were held. Elections, said another police authority member, Saima Afzal, would mean less diversity - far better to stick with appointed people like her.

Views like these are not only repellent - we cannot be trusted with democracy because we might vote for the "wrong" people. They are not only defeatist - have you so little confidence in your own arguments and personal qualities? They are also profoundly dangerous.

The alienation on which the BNP feeds arises precisely from the fact that quangocrats such as Afzal and Jones, and the police, and a dozen other public services, are insufficiently accountable to the people they serve. One of the other things about that BNP membership list is how relatively few names it has from Barking, the party's London electoral heartland. That confirms to me that the white working class of Barking are voting BNP not because they are racists but because they are fed up.

We saw a similar, London-wide revolt, happily directed towards a mainstream candidate, during the recent mayoral election. The white working class voted en masse for Boris in protest against a mayor who showed little evidence of being interested in them, or recognising their place in London. Meanwhile, Livingstone's shameless use of the race card, and his false accusations that many of his opponents were racist, did produce a high Labour vote among ethnic-minority Londoners. Thus a mainstream politician did more to racialise the electorate than the BNP ever could.

Whenever conventional politicians either wheel out the BNP as a spectre, or pander to it, they are bigging it up. In fact, as the leaked "membership list" again confirms, the BNP is a very small party, able to make a big push in one or two places but completely lacking the numbers to break through more widely. And even where it does win, it can be beaten back, as in Burnley and Oldham, if the non-racist parties address the disaffection which causes its rise.

The BNP's real asset is not its rather attenuated, and this week distinctly embarrassed, membership. It's the way in which some in mainstream politics play into its rotten hands.

 

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