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Old 2008-11-24, 06:21 PM   #41
Denyer
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"Tried" being the operative word.
 
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Old 2008-11-24, 06:30 PM   #42
Cliffjumper
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Mmm-hmm. Even if they can't be tried for murder, the end punishment is unlikely to be significantly different from if they were, therefore making bemoaning legal technicalities rather irrelevant.
 
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Old 2008-11-24, 06:31 PM   #43
Clay
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Quote:
The stages of life being radically different progressions?

Whilst I adamantly disagree with sperm+egg=person and ditto for a good few stages/months after that, it doesn't baffle how people manage to equate embryonic nervous systems with romping toddlers. People are capable of ascribing personalities to inanimate objects, nevermind developing bundles of cells that if left long enough will result in an addition to the global tribe.
I think first-trimester abortions are permissible in that regard; it's not a person* yet, it's not viable outside the womb, and any myriad things can still go wrong and cause a miscarriage anyway. I think third-trimester abortions should be nigh verboten, if not only because of the potential viability of the fetus but also because of its potential testament to the indecisiveness of the adults involved; just carry the fetus to term and adopt it out. It's the middle-trimester where the controversy lies, I think. I honestly don't think it's something I'd ever want my girlfriend/wife/daughter to do, but I do think it's a complicated enough issue to not ban the practice for everyone based on what I think or would do.

*People can survive outside the womb, have functioning organ systems, have a neurological system capable of independent thoughts, etc.

Anyway, LET'S NOT TALK ABOUT THIS IN THIS THREAD. It's already getting off-topic enough.
 
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Old 2008-11-25, 01:23 AM   #44
Ackula
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I'm going to address everyone who said anything to me in one post and not bother with quoting them, honestly I just have limited time right now for this post, but can sum it up rather quickly.

First of all I do not believe in "good" and "evil", not in the conventional way. I recognize the fact that they are subjective and will never be universally agreed upon, unless at some point in time we all become the followers of the same religious cult, which is highly unlikely. Therefore the labeling of people in such a manner is irrelevant to me. There were after all plenty of people in Nazi Germany that felt Hitler was doing good for their country, it is all about perspective, and you can never convince everyone to be of the same opinion.

As far as excessive punishment, torture, ect ...I feel that the crime should be punished. I do not feel that the termination of a life in a quick and near painless method is enough to deter crime nor is confinement in a facility for a number of years, or enough payback for severe crimes. No I am not in a position to decide this, nor will I try to create a flow chart illustrating what crimes deserve what levels of punishment, just be glad I will never be in the position to do so.

I also want to re-emphasis the fact that I do not mean only physical pain as punishment, but also psychological. Of course the crime would dictate the punishment. I do not feel that there is any difference what so ever in a person killing for god and country, or killing for justice. Even if the individual decides what is just. I would say it is more appropriate to kill for your own satisfaction and gain, than to kill for another's, like in the case of war. I would almost welcome a world of vigilantes if it meant taking the power away from the establishment and giving it back to the people, but that is a rant for another day.

And lastly, the labeling of persons who would want to take revenge on someone who killed a loved one as psychopathic, is in my opinion complete horseshit. Revenge/anger/hate is a natural urge that is hardwired into the human condition. Anyone who tells you otherwise is merely lying to themselves as to avoid the guilt associated with such feelings. It is an unfortunate thing that we as a species have made ourselves to feel guilty for all the natural urges that we have, and labeled them as sins or unmoral, instead of recognizing them as natural and healthy.

EDIT: I did want to address one specific quote if I may...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cliffjumper View Post
I'm entitled to club your skull in with a rock for not having the same opinion as me.
I have no problem with this logic. I openly would welcome anyone who wanted to try and kill or harm to try. If they are stronger, faster, or more clever than I am, then I would die a just death. However if they are not then they would fall by my hands. I am a firm believer in survival of the fittest, so what you are suggesting is not that far from the way I feel honestly. However I would resort to more clever ways of achieving the desired result, before resorting to physical violence, but that is a personal choice.
 
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Old 2008-11-25, 05:05 AM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kali View Post
And lastly, the labeling of persons who would want to take revenge on someone who killed a loved one as psychopathic, is in my opinion complete horseshit.
Misquote. Anyone who would willingly torture someone else, physically or mentally, would be psychopathic; I never said anything about revenge full-stop. I also said nothing about it being a loved one, either, but to institutionalised torture being part of the criminal justice of any developed country
 
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Old 2008-11-25, 05:50 AM   #46
Ackula
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cliffjumper View Post
Misquote. Anyone who would willingly torture someone else, physically or mentally, would be psychopathic; I never said anything about revenge full-stop. I also said nothing about it being a loved one, either, but to institutionalised torture being part of the criminal justice of any developed country
I'm confused..I didn't quote anyone. I'm saying that the labeling of persons who would want to take revenge on someone who killed a loved one as psychopathic, is in my opinion complete horseshit. I didn't say anyone said that.
 

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Old 2008-11-25, 02:01 PM   #47
Cliffjumper
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kali View Post
I'm confused..I didn't quote anyone. I'm saying that the labeling of persons who would want to take revenge on someone who killed a loved one as psychopathic, is in my opinion complete horseshit. I didn't say anyone said that.

Then what exactly does it have to do with anything? That's just a tangent which muddies the issue and avoids the points raised as a counter.
 
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Old 2008-11-25, 03:26 PM   #48
secretcode
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cliffjumper View Post
Anyone who would willingly torture someone else, physically or mentally, would be psychopathic
I agree with Cliffy on this one. Revenge is okay I guess, but there is a certain point where it gets out of hand- Torture for instance. "Alrighty I finally have a chance to get revenge on a guy for killing my wife... I'm going to go pull out each of his organs one by one." Yeah thats going too far. I can understand maybe breaking their legs or arms or something, but prolonging their death makes you just as bad as they were.
 


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Old 2008-11-25, 04:08 PM   #49
rattrap23
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I don’t believe in the “eye for an eye” concept. Taking a human life should not justify taking another human life.

To imprison murderers for years in state prisons and facilities may cost taxpayers, but I think people are better for it.
 


Grew up, mellowed out.
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Old 2008-11-27, 03:09 PM   #50
martyboy70
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The doctor who examined Peter 2 days before his death and missed his broken spine, 8 broken ribs and missing fingernails has been suspended today:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/7752231.stm

I for one think this is good news as how many children in the future would miss out on vital care due to wrong or missing diagnosis' by this quack?
 

Loss of job. Will sell for food here.
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Old 2008-11-27, 03:53 PM   #51
rattrap23
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Yea, this kind of incompetence is inexcusable. They had no choice but to suspend him.
 


Grew up, mellowed out.
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