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Old 2011-06-30, 08:27 PM   #21
Clay
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but its look like the ultimate or like jetwing
It looks more like this toy than this one, if that's what you're asking.
 
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Old 2011-06-30, 09:42 PM   #22
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I don't think Optimus Prime, a soldier in a war, can be expected to not shoot homicidal killer robots with nigh-omnipotent powers when he has the chance.

@Clay: Yay, I'm not the only person who loved this film. . .
 

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Old 2011-06-30, 10:48 PM   #23
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I don't think Optimus Prime, a soldier in a war, can be expected to not shoot homicidal killer robots with nigh-omnipotent powers when he has the chance.
Agreed. Add in the betrayal and almost extermination of what he's come to call home and his response perfectly reasonable IMHO.

Also, I frikin' loved this movie, plot holes and all.
 
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Old 2011-07-01, 02:38 AM   #24
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My take on this was that Sentinel realized that once the war started, neither side would stop until it's end. Since the Decepticons where winning, and there was no easy end in sight, he switched sides to try and save the planet. Also Optimus didn't have the Matrix until RotF, so Sentinel couldn't be revived until that point, so why not try and take the energon from the sun and end the war by killing the Autobots? Also consider the gamble that if the Autobots found out Sentinel Prime was alive and they didn't have the Matrix, how hard would they search for it just to revive him? It's all a matter of timing.
But weren't there Decepticons operating on the moon since the 70's? What's with that?
 

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Old 2011-07-01, 03:23 AM   #25
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But weren't there Decepticons operating on the moon since the 70's? What's with that?
What about it? Jetfire (who was a Decepticon at the time) had been on Earth at least sometime between 1966-1998, the years the SR-71 was in operation, and probably before that. They show pictures of really old cars and call them "Seekers" in RotF, meaning that the Transformers have been on Earth for a while. Why couldn't Jetfire or a similar Decepticon pop out of orbit to the moon? Obviously the transformer can out preform the restrictions of the alt mode (see Starscream in space as a F-22).
 
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Old 2011-07-01, 06:34 AM   #26
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Some people can't find a remote control in their own living room. I wonder if its possible that Transformers don't automatically detect another Transformer/ship/whatever just because its nearby... they have to be looking for it, like us.

I know that sounds lame, but it may explain why they're so useless sometimes. The films are a really odd mix of the fantastic things they can do (permeate every facet of human communication to get exactly what they want, as per the first film), to not doing the numbers and realise when they don't stand a chance in a situation (Ravage v. Bumblebee).

There's a line in the third film where someone says Transformers act a lot like teenagers, explaining this mixture of smart and dumb, I quite like that. You can kind of see this in other parts of the Transformers universe; how much hassle and loss could the Wreckers have avoided in 'Last Stand of the Wreckers' if TF's really could calculate a billion things a second. Robots certainly wouldn't go to war to start with. Everything would be a logical calculation amongst static bean counters.

And that seems to be Prime's point as to why he'll do so much for humans in these films. He values them and seems to admire/rely on them for their traits, seemingly the TF's themselves either have in a short supply, or it manifests differently in beings who have different lifespans and lifestyles. Perhaps humans are a lot faster at maturing and reading situations. Just a 'perhaps' mind.

So I don't know if that was a conscious thought of Michael Bay's, but it mirrors the sentiment of Pyro's last words to Verity.
 
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Old 2011-07-01, 07:14 AM   #27
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What the hell was with Carly's lips?
They were downright disturbing, weren't they? Combined with her anorexic build, she seemed more like a revenant come back from the grave to eat people's souls than the attractive woman she was allegedly supposed to be. Frightening looks aside, either the new actress brought a bit more acting chops to the table than Megan Fox did or the writers put a lot more effort into writing the female lead for this movie than they did the last two. Carly feels like a much more 'real' character than Mikaela ever did...so it's a shame that she has absolutely no on-screen chemistry with Sam. Mikaela might have been a one-dimensional Teenage Boy Magnet, but at least with her I got the impression that the two characters actually liked each other.

The movie was much better than ROTF, and not only because it was paced much better. It raised the stakes in a way that the last sequel didn't manage, and not just in terms of raw carnage (although there was a lot of that). The characters here are actually likeable, for the most part, so when they get put in danger the audience actually feels for them -- a huge departure from ROTF, where a good slice of the audience was actively cheering for the Blackface Twins to get eaten by Devastator. Sam especially comes off much better, like a legit leading man in an action movie instead of a character from a teen sex romp who wandered onto the wrong soundstage. The same goes for the parents, who are funny again like they were in the first movie instead of painfully awkward like they were in the second.

I was surprised by how little some of the recurring cast got to do this time around, though. Simmons and Lennox almost feel like they're only in the movie at all because the audience is going to expect to see them; Simmons only contributes to the plot for about 15 minutes and spends the rest of the movie making wisecracks, and Lennox spends most of his screen time yelling incoherently. I expected to see much more of Soundwave than we did, Ratchet and Sideswipe were barely in it at all and even Bumblebee's role was much-reduced. Megatron gets the worst of it, though. I'm genuinely at a loss why they even bothered bringing him back in Revenge of the Fallen, because he was a third wheel in that movie and he's a third wheel in this one too. And now he's dead, again. So what exactly was the point again?

Oh, and I can't say strongly enough just how much I enjoyed watching Starscream die like a bitch.
 
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Old 2011-07-01, 08:55 AM   #28
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I don't think Optimus Prime, a soldier in a war, can be expected to not shoot homicidal killer robots with nigh-omnipotent powers when he has the chance.

@Clay: Yay, I'm not the only person who loved this film. . .
Sir I urge you to read the first line of my previous post...
 



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Old 2011-07-01, 09:41 AM   #29
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Right so, as with some others here I went into this movie hoping only one thing, that it wasn't the torrid heap of flotsam that ROTF was.

I was pleased to find that it wasn't, it was far better than ROTF, as Sunrunner said, they managed to get a few 8 year olds in. Bravo!

Alas, they still mainly made it a rework of the same film with some things moved around and put in different places. They added some new characters, despite having barely developed any of the existing ones, and overdid things in a gigantor battle scene that went on for so long that I considered taking a snooze. Prime's last line was crinchworthy in the extreme.

Things I liked:

Laserbeak - he was nice and creepy but also came across as intelligent, unlike most of the Decepticons in this universe.

Soundwave - Used well, though could have been used better, and could have had a better voice. His alt mode came across as a nice advert for Mercedes given that the script banged on about what a great and expensive car it was. Thanks for the help on the budget there from Daimler-Chrysler. Would have liked to see some interaction between Megatron/Soundwave and Shockwave. I always felt Soundwave and Shockwave had a good hatred for eachother.

Sentinel Prime - Whilst I ultimately found his betrayal quite odd, I hadn't expected it and as such it came as a nice plot twist, albeit one that was pretty poorly thought out. Nimoy voiced the character well, he looked good and felt like the SP we have seen in other universes. Kind of reminded me of the SP from Megatron:Origins.

The Africa scene with Megs - Superb lighting made this just look great, and I quite liked Megatron's caped look, though I disliked the concept that he had given up on caring about much.

Early battles - The film was generally going pretty well until the mammoth final battle that once again smacked of "We did a three hour scene that had to be cut down." The dread battle was classic stuff, even if they looked a bit too much like Predators.

Sideswipe - Still not a major character but at least he got a bigger and much better part than in ROTF.

Ironhide - A character they almost got right. Was sad and shocking to see him gunned down by SP.

Things I disliked (Putting aside my inherent "issues" with this universe):

Dino - Again, Ferrari probably chipped into the budget. Why create a new character when there are so many round to use? I thought this was going to be Mirage?? Either way, the character had relatively little point other than to help sell Ferraris. He did well in the Dread battle as a high point, but giving him an Italian accent was pretty crass... "Oooh, I like that alt mode, I shall schwang myself up like that, nice, and while I am at it I will adopt the accent of someone that might have come from where it was made. Yea, not the language though, just the accent, that seems wise!" (Did Soundwave have a German accent?). He should have been a yellow Ferrari called Sunstreaker and then they could have even created a character relationship with Sideswipe, ho hum.

Shockwave - Looked ace, and was very nice and menacing and Decepticon like. However, had no lines, seemingly no purpose and kept appearing on the back of his giant worm with no explanation of anything. At some point they could have conducted a scene with him and Megatron maybe, detailing exactly why, how and what Shockwave ended up on Earth for, what his general aim in the plot was and thus given the character something else other than just being another baddun. Did he even have a Decepticon insignia on him? Did anyone have one in robot mode?

Starscream - This whole franchise has ruined Starscream. Whilst he may have always been a bit crawly bumlick with Megatron, I don't think he was with every other Decepticon, and all this constant gobbing is obscene. If anything the slightly camp connotations of this character in other universes suggested he was always well kept and very keen on a good polish. In the 1986 movie he was a total ponce with his shoulder pads and crown and trumpet service. In this franchise they decided he is some sort of stinking wretched Smeagol type. It's balls. As was his absurd death scene where apparently two humans were able to kill him. This being the Decepticon air commander, a feared warrior that despite endless d*ckery is someone Megatron always kept around, usually because he was very good at doing killings and generally pretty clever and dastardly when it came to general evil plotting. One good moment across three films for one of the biggest characters in the whole of the TF world is a bit of a sickener for me.

Megatron - Yes, as many have said now, he was inept in this film, and Megatron should never be inept. Having him rollover and seemingly let SP take charge was notably out of character.

Optimus Prime - I was fairly happy with Prime in this film, in the sense that they did not completely heroise him and did address some of his weaknesses sometimes. Such as the mantle of leadership weighing heavy (Hence he tries to give it away to SP) and SP referring to him in battle saying "You always were brave, but you never could make decisions (sic.)". This brought me back to the Prime I know, the one that seemed to spend alot of time in the comic universe thinking "What the hell am I doing here?" - Well this was nice, and he was suitably good at stepping up to the plate when the sh*t hit the fan, notwithstanding getting caught in ropes. What got me was the ruthlessness, just like in ROTF, all this remorselessly shooting people in the brain is not really what OP has ever been about. Usually Ironhide or Grimlock hang around saying "shoot him in the head Prime!" while he wracks himself internally thinking "But if I am without mercy, does this not make me as bad as that Megatron guy?" - This was absent, and whilst I can reflect that he might be a bit p*ssed off about the way things have turned out, I always felt the strength of OP was that he could rise above all that. Course, one can assume that the team of 8 year olds are probably a bit young to have read any previous TF fiction. Plus, is it not a bit of a dichotomy that he is so willing to sacrifice his own home planet for the sake of Earth? They didn't even address that, nor did any Autobot seem fussed that Cybertron imploded.

The final battle - Went on too long. I love giant fighting robots and was starting to get bored of seeing giant fighting robots. This is never a good sign. I think, like ROTF's forest scene, the smaller skirmish type battles work much better and allow coherent plot to run alongside. Giant Michael Bay style battle scenes with grey/silver robots on a backdrop of a grey/silver buildings and streets is something we've seen before and didn't really need to be done again.

The worm thing - Unnecessary bobbins, my Girlfriend liked it though.

Did someone say they saw Barricade?

Anyway, on the whole it was okay, until the last 45 minutes I was definitely enjoying it so that makes it much better than ROTF. I do rather hope though, that if a fourth film comes along it is a complete reboot, or indeed a G1 themed piece using the universe that already exists and has lots of character depth to build upon.

Michael Bay should not really be allowed to make films anymore.
 
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Old 2011-07-01, 11:24 AM   #30
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Sir I urge you to read the first line of my previous post...
Sorry, I was exaggerating a bit. It just felt like everyone had a lot more negative to say than positive (then again, this is the internet . . .)

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Megatron should never be inept.
What version of Transformers have you been watching/ reading for the last 30 years? It sounds good!


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The final battle - Went on too long.
Thats a matter of opinion. For a lot of people, particularly transformers fans, a whole film of that sort of thing would have done just fine.
 

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Old 2011-07-01, 11:29 AM   #31
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What version of Transformers have you been watching/ reading for the last 30 years? It sounds good!
The ones where Megatron is quite often very much insane and often does completely stupid things out of rage, but very rarely decides to just sit down and have a rest, leaving everyone else to it.


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Thats a matter of opinion. For a lot of people, particularly transformers fans, a whole film of that sort of thing would have done just fine.
Of course, all of it is a matter of opinion.
 
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Old 2011-07-01, 01:12 PM   #32
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I loved the references to The Ultimate Doom, Megatron's Master Plan, and even Atlantis Arise (Megatron sitting in the Lincoln Memorial).

As others have said, DOTM was better than ROTF but not nearly as good as the original. Someone needs to have a word with Michael Bay about pacing - after the unexciting and overly long moon opening sequence, we're then stuck with about 30 minutes of exposition and talking. Someone needs to time how long it took to actually see a Transformer, you know, transform. It was a LONG time. When I watch this movie on DVD, I'll skip straight past the first 30 minutes, which I would never do with either of the first two films.

I can only think of a few reasons why they even bothered including Megatron:

1. Without leadership, Starscream and the others might have left Earth.
2. Sentinel Prime's "evil turn" would have made less sense if his alliance was with a dead robot.
3. The Decepticons being transported to Earth (from where?) might not have been inclined to follow a rogue Autobot if Megatron wasn't around to vouch for him.

That's all I can come up with. Megatron came off so poorly that, when found sitting in a city corner somewhere with a sheet on his head, I half expected to see a tiny 7-11 cup in his hand and a "Homeless Please Help" sign on the ground. The fact that a random human got away with calling him a "bitch" to his face, not to mention Optimus dispensing with him in mere seconds, speaks volumes about how the screenwriter(s) perceived this character.
 

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Old 2011-07-01, 01:56 PM   #33
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I do believe that the phrase required here is: WHOOFRICKINHOO!!!

I loved the film. So many tongue-in-cheek film references; complete and uncontrolled continuity loss now and again; many WTF just happened..? moments as the inexplicable was explicabled e.g. Ironhide's demise. Very much like one of the cartoons, in fact.

Lots of comicdom-originated bits and pieces, including the human betrayers and the doomed launch. So: I knew what was going on, but it actually made the film experience more fun.

And, to be honest, I never noticed the time passing, which is the mark of a movie that engages its patrons.

Okay, I hated the Wang moments - total gross-out embarrassing and I'm not too sure Scraplet2 will appreciate it when I take him along (I usually check 12A movies before letting him see them, because he does get a bit het up about scary moments, bless. That's the boy who 'inadvertently' watched Predators and loved it. Go figure.).

Now for Shockwave. He didn't get many frames, but he was scene-stealing. And sexy. Yup, very. See how he posed? The dramatic angles? He's the pin-up of the whole bunch.

The main question I came out with was, however: who are the villains here? Both Sentinel and Megatron wanted to save Cybertron (I almost cried when Megs gasped as he saw his home looming over Earth), but Optimus' actions condemned it. To Cybertron, Optimus and his team are in no way the heroes they are to the people of Earth for whom they suffered and saved; Optimus is a traitor, exactly as Sentinel pointed out. Deep.

But Optimus has seriously gone up in my estimation. Compared to his comic and cartoon incarnations, he is seismic, going over the edge beautifully. What a way to end the franchise! But wait! Starscream is dead - oh, yeah? - and Op took out Megatron at last - oh, yeah? - and the planet is still infested with the 'Cons who prepared the space-bridge pillars right across the world.

We're set up for another round and I'm up for it!
 
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Old 2011-07-01, 04:45 PM   #34
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Okay, not read anyone else yet...

First impression was pretty mediocre - lots of lulls again, and it could have done with a general trim, though the pacing was more even that ROTF. Big problem was that most of the awesome bits were in the trailer. I get the impression it's a film that will live or die on repeat viewings.

- Liked seriously hacked-off Prime. Did not like so much that cables and (presumably) the need to make a dramatic entrance saw him avoid shit-loads of the final battle. To be fair, that was the mother and father of dramatic entrances.

- Liked the low-key, low-spite utterly believable Miks explanation. New woman seemed dry, though - not bad, just a bit of a blank, whereas I always felt Mikaela had a few quirks to her.

- Liked Ironhide's death - it raised the stakes a bit, especially in the impressive melee scenes later when it's like everyone's fair game, and he got to show off a bit beforehand, and it served to show what a cockmuncher Sentinel was. Not so keen on everyone's complete lack of reaction/mention was - one Sgt. Slaughter "And this is for I-RON-HIDE!" in the final battle would have done the job. Amazed Ratchet made it through.

- Liked Optimus killing Megatron, and executing Sentinel Prime. This is how soldiers work - Prime didn't finish the job on Megatron last time and look what ****ing happened. O'course, if it was up to some of the stupider elements of fandom, Megs might have been backed up by Demolisher and Sideways, which would really have helped humanity. It's good that none of the people who complain about this sort of thing will never be making any decisions that matter.

- Liked the relative lack of toilet humour, and what there was got concentrated into Wheelie and Brains, which I can live with. And, hey, they did something.

- Few of the new characters made much impression, but then when you look over the past two films the approach has been that way - in a war film like, say, Where Eagles Dare, Clint Eastwood and Richard Burton hog all the action, and the other guys in their squad are just there. Or like a Star Trek film - sure, there's often a bone thrown the way of Chekov or Uhura, but they always end up doing very little compared to the Big Guys.

Quite liked that Q guy getting executed like a bitch, though, that was gratifying - stupid character, stupid design. "OH I HAVE THESE MAGIC GIZMOS OH I'M NOT GOING TO RESIST IN ANY WAY WHILE I GET SHOT IN THE BACK OF THE HEAD". Way to contribute, you bald twat.

Putting aside toy/car selling concerns, there seemed little point in dumping the Twins and JTV for the Wreckers, Q and that Ferrari (was he really called Dino?), but then the films just seem to have a different approach and have concentrated on Prime, Bumblebee, Megatron, Starscream and Sam, and I think that has its' own rewards in a strong group of central characters.

- So, you all got that Barricade closure you needed. Personally I felt his exit in the first film was more dignified.

- Starscream got killed by Sam. I laughed my ****ing arse off, I can tell you. At least Snake-Eyes was a ninja...

tl;dr - it was alright on first viewing, but I wouldn't be gutted if that was it.
 

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Old 2011-07-01, 05:13 PM   #35
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Putting aside toy/car selling concerns, there seemed little point in dumping the Twins and JTV for the Wreckers, Q and that Ferrari (was he really called Dino?), but then the films just seem to have a different approach and have concentrated on Prime, Bumblebee, Megatron, Starscream and Sam, and I think that has its' own rewards in a strong group of central characters.
I was actually hoping the Twins would be in the new movie. In it just long enough for them (and maybe Leadfoot and Q) to get caught alone by Shockwave. The chance for a "All. Are. Dead." moment would of been awesome, plus seeing those twits blown to pieces would of made me happy.

I was a little disappointed that all the Wreckers survived. Leadfoot, being the odd mech out (namely, that name has no legacy) and with a target on his gut no less, should of died at the very least. I was a little concerned with their appearance, but given that they ended up more like soccer hooligans I was relieved. No "Wreck and Rule!" but we got a "Wreckers, let's get us some" out of them, so they at least like fighting.
 
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Old 2011-07-01, 05:21 PM   #36
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What about it? Jetfire (who was a Decepticon at the time) had been on Earth at least sometime between 1966-1998, the years the SR-71 was in operation, and probably before that. They show pictures of really old cars and call them "Seekers" in RotF, meaning that the Transformers have been on Earth for a while. Why couldn't Jetfire or a similar Decepticon pop out of orbit to the moon? Obviously the transformer can out preform the restrictions of the alt mode (see Starscream in space as a F-22).
Thanks for reminding me that there were more Cons on Earth, it just makes the plot from the second movie make even less sense. Why even go with the plan to destroy the Earth by taking all the energy out of the sun, when the Cons had been working with humans to remove the pillars off the moon, bringing Cybertron into the Earth's orbit, and enslaving mankind? Was The Fallen not in on this charade? Soundwave and Megatron sure as hell were, and they were working with The Fallen!
 

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Old 2011-07-01, 05:23 PM   #37
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I didn't mind the Twins that much, but didn't really mind their absence if you follow... I think it would have been hard to kill them off without it being an obvious "See, look, no-one liked them so we had them killed, please write a nice review" vibe to it (like that godawful BotCon comic that kills of Wheelie and Daniel in the first couple of pages just to get people onside), and without Bay looking like a bit of a hypocrite for putting them in ROTF in the first place.
 
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Old 2011-07-01, 05:52 PM   #38
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Anyone else notice that the last guy flying Prime slices before Shockwave is another Bonecrusher?

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O
Sam's boss was...eh. What a waste of such a good actor. Only his first scene was noteworthy. Sam's interactions with that chinese character are so plain silly any sane person would want to gouge their eyes\ears out and throw it on the wall. It was like ROTF all again. Really cringed at the scenes. Really cheered on his death. I'll pay good money for an official release with those scenes edited out.
Oooh yeh, that was pretty painful - in fact, the whole "controlled" thing seemed a bit vague and just seemed to have a set of rules to insert the funny.

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Real nice show of carnage and disaster that would happen if such an invasion was real. Many scenes in the opening montage of the city could feel right at home in a zombie movie [bar any walking dead, of course] and I loved the part where decepticon drones blast away humans. Finally, it took what, almost 30 years for such a scene in the franchise?
Yup, I thought that was great - found the whole vaporisation effect of it pretty disturbing too.

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Unless his craft drifted in space for a long, long time, it's not plausible.
Personally I felt this was pretty much implied - Earth's got to be a long way away from where Cybertron used to be, surely?

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The battles were nice and detailed this time. You could see what was going on, robot versus robot. I'm usually apathetic at human action scenes even in the most hardcore of action films, but the entire sequence with the collapsing tower building was really something. The scene where office furniture falls on Shockwave and a cup breaks on his head was really, really well done. Gives a nice dread to a hide and seek stealth op they had going.
I felt most of the scenes were basically good (especially "everyone v Sentinel"), but a lot of them went on for a mite too long - Epps' team in the skyscraper was a fabulous idea and an amazing visual, went on too long. The flying NEST troops much the same - brilliant stuff, but after we'd seen a few seconds of them gliding past exploding Ospreys we had the idea.

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Megatron, having the coolest design of the three films, is a bitch. Does NOTHING, is severely weakened, and at the point where he SAVES Optimus, Optimus swiftly kills him. Kills him, for good. WTF? Major let down.
Agree that he looked fantastic, but I agree it didn't convince that he took Sentinel out pretty easily and then had absolutely no defence against a knackered Optimus Prime. That said, for one horrible moment I thought we were going to get some sort of "Brothers united against Sentinel" cheese, so I was glad that Prime just axed him in the head.

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Shockwave isn't the main baddie. He has no lines besides snarling Prime's name, either. And generally, doesn't do much. For all the badassery he represents, he just walks on the street cocking his gun.
Shockwave was piss-poor, but then it didn't actually bother me any more than, say, the Ferrari not having much to do. The designs for the Decepticons in general were very lazy and generic. Personally, I didn't care either way - Shockwave the classic version is played out, like Grimlock. Good visual, though - I do like the way the movies keep on coming up with different ways of doing Transformers.

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The invasion stuff was pretty grim and gritty and well handled... except it came across very generic 'alien invasion' - I was having Battle LA flashbacks, War of the Worlds flashbacks and Terminator Salvation flashbacks all at once.
Yeh, I thought it was a shame that after the great handling of transportation in the first film (they turn into spaceships), having the Decepticons fly Lucas surplus stuff around was a disappointment.

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On that issue, there seemed to be a scene missing where Optimus got his trailer back, since he made a big comment about having to get it back to get the flight deck
It was odd they drew so much attention to that, wasn't it? Especially as Prime finds all his gizmos and then seems to exit the plot for 10 minutes.

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Originally Posted by Summerhayes View Post
The dark, invasion-style scenes of despair and hopelessness were done brilliantly, particularly Sam's drive into the city.
I loved that with Epps, when they just pull up to the city and realise they're miles out of their depth.

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Also, after using every trick in the book to make us hate the baddies for killing prisoners, Optimus executes Sentinel with a headshot from behind after he's already beaten.
What's he going to do? Sling him in Astroprison so he can be sprung by the next Decepticon threat? Sentinel Prime had just helped kill more people than everyone in this thread combined will ever know for largely twatty reasons. I didn't see him offering much quarter to Ironhide after all... All's fair in love and robot wars, as the saying goes.

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Having accepted that these films think they need a human element to appeal to the masses (and having spoken to my girlfriend and others who aren't dyed-in-the-wool Transfans) the ratio of Autobot-to-human was well-handled, the battles were excellent and even Sam was pretty cool.
I think across the three they do a good balancing act - the amount of non-fans you talk to who enjoy the films for Sam or Mikaela or Lennox or Simmons makes you realise the difference between selling something to children &/or fans and selling it to everyone. When it's come up in conversation with friends and family that another one's on the way, they've asked me if Duhamel or Lebouf are in it, not if there's going to be some crazy new version of Tracks.

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Originally Posted by Ice Shard View Post
He just kept losing parts of it till his head came off entirely.
I thought it was a bit of a shame they didn't run with him being brain damaged a bit more - I quite liked the visual of him slumped in an alley poking at his head wounds while Sentinel and the drones took on the Autobots, but his sudden ability to knock the shit out of Sentinel was jarring - a better handling would perhaps have been him getting off one shot that gave Optimus an opening, and then dying pathetically.

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The scene with them in the half falling building was ridiculously long, and ultimately they were all in perfect health when emerging from it.
Apart from the poor chap who kept on going.

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Originally Posted by Auntie Slag View Post
And that was a good thing that Mr. Bay managed, I really felt that not one of the good guys was above getting blown to smithereens in this one. I was bricking it for Sideswipe, Dino & the Wreckers personally. They had cannon fodder written all over them.

And Ironhide, I was getting really fond of him. Arse.
I was also fearing for Bumblebee, and I'm surprised Sideswipe and (especially) Ratchet weren't ahead of him in the queue. It seemed strange (though good) that they blew just Q apart and any of the others - given that this was certainly Bay's last film in the series, I half-expected him to salt the earth and wipe the bunch of them out.

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Originally Posted by Dragon Warrior Steve View Post
And it didn't make sense why Sentinel would team up with the Decepticons to rebuild Cybertron when the Decepticons are the ones destroying it in the first place.
No, the war was destroying it - the Decepticons simply started it. Optimus stated the Autobots were losing. I'm less than convinced the space bridge would have been enough to save the outnumbered and outgunned Autobots.

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The Autobots get taken prisoner after a scene I guess they thought wasn't crucial to the film.
That was annoying - and felt very strange considering that so many of the fight scenes in the films have been to the death.

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I couldn't even get myself attached to the other new robots, because I don't even know their damn names. They can't even take a minute to introduce these new guys?
Because then you'd be bitching that they only introduced them? Seriously, the first two should have been a big clue that these aren't ensemble films. Dino is to DOTM as Sundown is to Top Gun.

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Prime shooting Sentinel in the head was just downright disturbing. Why are the Autobots homicidal maniacs in these last two films? I realize keeping Sentinel alive wouldn't benefit anyone, but it just didn't seem like something Optimus Prime would do. And that's just embarrassing that characters from toy commercial cartoons are more honorable, or at least wiser.
See above. Sentinel Prime is responsible for the massacre of Chicago's population, killed Ironhide, allowed the execution of Q and threw in his lot with the group who had instigated Cybertron's destruction in return for a place in Megatron's new order. It's not a particularly great case for just giving him a slap on the wrist.

Cartoons more honourable? If they had been in any sort of real universe, do you realise how many innocent people would be killed as a result of Megatron's various plans? That would be killed because the Autobots basically let him off the whole time?

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Originally Posted by Thunderwave View Post
That seems to be a reoccurring thing. This version of Prime does the right thing for the right reason, but does not mess around with taking prisoners that'll only try and escape/backstab. He likes to make sure the threat is totally removed.
Exactly. Optimus Prime dropped the ball big time by not hunting Megatron down after ROTF.

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Originally Posted by Vin Ghostal View Post
I loved the references to The Ultimate Doom, Megatron's Master Plan, and even Atlantis Arise (Megatron sitting in the Lincoln Memorial).
Loved that the Autobots weren't stupid enough to fall for the shuttle thing this time.

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after the unexciting and overly long moon opening sequence, we're then stuck with about 30 minutes of exposition and talking.
God, that went on and on, didn't it? The mix of archive stuff was very nicely done, but added to nothing but the (gargantuan) running time. Methinks the space race is perhaps a personal pet subject of the writers or directors.

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That's all I can come up with. Megatron came off so poorly that, when found sitting in a city corner somewhere with a sheet on his head, I half expected to see a tiny 7-11 cup in his hand and a "Homeless Please Help" sign on the ground. The fact that a random human got away with calling him a "bitch" to his face, not to mention Optimus dispensing with him in mere seconds, speaks volumes about how the screenwriter(s) perceived this character.
I think Megatron's role makes a lot more sense if you divorce yourself briefly from Transformers and think of him as a regular movie villain - in that context, he's a two-time loser - imagine if Die Hard had the exact same guy regularly failing to kill John McClane every film. I thought it was an interesting take - not necessarily a good one, but an interesting one.
 
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Old 2011-07-01, 05:53 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by Dragon Warrior Steve View Post
Thanks for reminding me that there were more Cons on Earth, it just makes the plot from the second movie make even less sense. Why even go with the plan to destroy the Earth by taking all the energy out of the sun, when the Cons had been working with humans to remove the pillars off the moon, bringing Cybertron into the Earth's orbit, and enslaving mankind? Was The Fallen not in on this charade? Soundwave and Megatron sure as hell were, and they were working with The Fallen!
Because they had no way of bringing Sentinal Prime back at that moment. The Matrix was lost. They didn't know if the Autobots could get it back. Best to hedge bets and get the pillars before trying to blow up the sun. If the Matrix shows up again, great, they can then keep going with Plan A. If not they kill the sun, take the energon and run. In theory it's a win/win for them.
 
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Old 2011-07-01, 05:58 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by Dragon Warrior Steve View Post
Thanks for reminding me that there were more Cons on Earth, it just makes the plot from the second movie make even less sense. Why even go with the plan to destroy the Earth by taking all the energy out of the sun, when the Cons had been working with humans to remove the pillars off the moon, bringing Cybertron into the Earth's orbit, and enslaving mankind? Was The Fallen not in on this charade? Soundwave and Megatron sure as hell were, and they were working with The Fallen!
Because the pillars were useless without Sentinel Prime. They salvage some resources in the sixties which turn out to not be any use. Fifty years later someone else turns up with a plan to get them a shitload of energy, and they go for that instead as there's no sign of the controlling pillar.

What are they meant to do? Go "Sorry, The Fallen, we're not up for this, we've had these pillars hoarded for four decades and we're only interested in plans that directly involve them". They were nowhere near bringing the pillar plan to fruitition in ROTF, thus having no chance of bringing Cybertron into the Earth's orbit, and enslaving mankind. So they might as well get the energy from the sun as there was no sign of the control pillar coming to light.
 
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