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Old 2011-07-01, 06:20 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by Warcry View Post
Mikaela might have been a one-dimensional Teenage Boy Magnet, but at least with her I got the impression that the two characters actually liked each other.
I quite like Megan Fox despite not actually finding her particularly attractive... She's got this sort-of trashy charisma to her, and fitted the films nicely. Carly felt too much like she'd been rewritten, with the high class job especially a desperate attempt to say "Loook! She's totally different!". She didn't really convince as a love interest for Sam, whereas Mikaela's sarky grease-monkey act and independant streak (especially in the first film) does a bit more - she seemed a little bit more of an oddball than the far-too-perfect Carly.

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His alt mode came across as a nice advert for Mercedes given that the script banged on about what a great and expensive car it was. Thanks for the help on the budget there from Daimler-Chrysler.
Ooooh, the bit with the website was painful... Because that's what you do when someone mentions a car, you call up a high-quality video commercial of said car and look at it for five minutes.

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He should have been a yellow Ferrari called Sunstreaker and then they could have even created a character relationship with Sideswipe, ho hum.
Like the great character relationship they have in G1 where every now and then someone mentions they're brothers?

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This being the Decepticon air commander, a feared warrior that despite endless d*ckery is someone Megatron always kept around, usually because he was very good at doing killings and generally pretty clever and dastardly when it came to general evil plotting.
Wait, when was this? Oh yeh, a completely different continuity! That Barricade, how come he never hung around with any racing gangs? I thought Skids was meant to be a Theoretician!

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I do rather hope though, that if a fourth film comes along it is a complete reboot, or indeed a G1 themed piece using the universe that already exists and has lots of character depth to build upon.
Mmmm, we could have Starscream being treacherous, Ironhide talking like a hick, Grimlock going "Me Grimlock do something crowd-pleasing". It'd be new and exciting.
 
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Old 2011-07-01, 06:53 PM   #42
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Like the great character relationship they have in G1 where every now and then someone mentions they're brothers?
Exactly like that yes, deep and meaningful brotherly love! Then they could do a spin of film called "Robo-Twins". Oh the high jinx.

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Mmmm, we could have Starscream being treacherous, Ironhide talking like a hick, Grimlock going "Me Grimlock do something crowd-pleasing". It'd be new and exciting.
Oh yea. Sounds like it would be ace.
 
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Old 2011-07-01, 07:01 PM   #43
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What are they meant to do? Go "Sorry, The Fallen, we're not up for this, we've had these pillars hoarded for four decades and we're only interested in plans that directly involve them". They were nowhere near bringing the pillar plan to fruitition in ROTF, thus having no chance of bringing Cybertron into the Earth's orbit, and enslaving mankind. So they might as well get the energy from the sun as there was no sign of the control pillar coming to light.
I like my rationale best: pretend the second film just didn't happen, or had a plot or something, or played fully into this one.

Ha, no really. I made the comment to a friend that I don't much care for revisionist history when it's actual history, but somehow this movie manages to do both that and revise its own fictional history.

Change of subject! I saw Bonecrusher too. Barricade was present, for whatever reason. Also, I saw Long Haul's old robot mode before it scanned that dump truck and turned into that Cloverfield thing with the long arms.
 
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Old 2011-07-01, 07:58 PM   #44
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What's he going to do? Sling him in Astroprison so he can be sprung by the next Decepticon threat?
I don't disagree with that; I've argued that point in previous posts. I just thought it was an odd directorial decision to point out how very evil and wrong it was, only for Prime to then do it as well.
 

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Old 2011-07-01, 08:11 PM   #45
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I don't disagree with that; I've argued that point in previous posts. I just thought it was an odd directorial decision to point out how very evil and wrong it was, only for Prime to then do it as well.
Did Sentinel make any attempt to surrender, though? Optimus has one arm and is in bad shape...

The whole prisoner sequence just didn't sit right with me, though. The idea of the Autobots being captured alive in this universe is strange - the battles in the films have largely been no quarter given to-the-death numbers.

And then that evil guy has to suggest the idea of killing the captives - the Decepticons clearly have no moral problems with this at all as they clearly think it's fantastic; it seems like they just hadn't thought of it. And then the Autobots seem surprised, like a line's suddenly been crossed by the guys who've been vapourising the population of Chicago for a laugh.

Then they all just stand there - obviously Q isn't going to put up much of a fight because he's rubbish, but Bumblebee and Sideswipe just standing there waiting for Soundwave to kill them when seconds later they're all whirling around Sentinel? Sure, they were surrounded by Decepticons, but is lining up like a bunch of bitches really the more attractive option?
 
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Old 2011-07-01, 08:25 PM   #46
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Well, once again its starting to look like I'm going to be the lone voice of support for the film amongst my closest family and friends, of the two who've seen it so far about the best they've said for it is they could actually tell what was going on in the action scenes this time. They generally thought all the fun had been taken out of the films and it was too dull and serious apart from a few random moments.


Myself, generally I liked it. Especially how it managed to pull off the tonal shift in showing the occupation of Chicago as a really nasty business with people dying and being generally distressed. Compared to the earlier car chase scene which continued the attitude of the first two of focusing on the cool stuff blowing up rather than any human cost (I mean, how many people would have died in that pile up?) it could have been real mood whiplash, but it still worked.


Cullen, Nimoy and LaBeouf all did the usual good work, the effects were stunning and well thought out (even if there wasn't really a forest fight moment) and the Chenobyl sequence was nicely evocative, even if I wasn't much of a fan of the "aliens did it" angle.

Middling niggles:

I didn't like the mixing of real footage with newsreel in the opening scenes, if only because it showed how much their Nixon and Kennedy stand ins didn't really look like the originals. Not a fan of the whole Apollo angle either, it seemed somewhat demeaning to a genuinely great achievement to suggest it was all to briefly look round a mysterious alien space ship, and I suspect Armstrong will be mildly embarrassed by the whole thing, unlike shameless attention whore Aldrin (and a man who wasn't trusted enough to be the first man off the lander because of his personal problems somehow got picked for a mission so secret he can never talk about it?). People less into the space program will probably not be so annoyed by that though.

And were the other two old NASA guys real people or just terrible actors?

The Wreckers came with the second wave of Autobots, presumably the new characters in ROTF, so where were they during the potentially planet destroying all hands on deck crisis in that film (the other new guys here get a pass as their origin isn't specified and thus could have come in a third or fourth wave)?.

Epps' subplot with rounding up the old NEST troopers felt fairly redundant, he could just as easily still been in active service and part of the advanced NEST scouting party with Sam. Surely he's not such a popular character they thought he needed his own mini-adventure?

The Decepticons having to be reminded by their human stooge they don't take prisoners was just... odd.


The outright bad:

Only two things really:

First, Carly was terrible. I'm actually surprised to see her get so much love in this thread as she was pretty much exactly what Megan Fox's worst critics accused her of. Insanely badly acted, spent the entire film screaming "SAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAM!" (it'd be interesting to see her have a shout off with Stacy "JAAAAAAAAMES!" Sutton from A View To A Kill) whilst managing to keep her mostly white outfit virtually spotless in a battlezone, and with none of the proactive go-getter spirit Mikaela had.

The second is Megatron was pretty much wasted again, meaning that in all three films they pretty much wasted Hugo Weaving. The bit where he and Carly (two characters who've never met before- and there's not even any indication prior to this she even knows what Megatron looks like) talk like old acquaintances and she manages to change his mind about his entire plan in about six words even when all his obvious prior doubts haven't done it is just bizarre, did a bit from a draft with Fox in not get rewritten here? And him deciding to kill Sentinel just before he finishes off Optimus was especially daft, just wait three seconds man.

I'd have probably given Megs the Shockwave role to beef up his part, make the deal between him and Sentinel more even and give him some decent action scenes so him managing to kill SP so easily wouldn't have come out of left field to such an extent.

On a minor note, with Barricade back and the overall sense of the end of an era it might have been nice if it had been him rather than Starscream in the "My eye!" fight, it would have created a sense of things coming full circle to have Sam and Bumblebee up against the Con who first brought them together. Though that's minor as I also like the way that bit turned out.
 
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Old 2011-07-01, 08:49 PM   #47
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It's been a few days now since i saw the movie, so I can't remember, but did DOTM ever state exactly why Sentinel was the only one that could activate the pillars? At one point Dr. McDreamy reactivated them, but perhaps because Sentinel had already done it.
 

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Old 2011-07-01, 08:51 PM   #48
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Every time someone mentions Starscream dying after Sam staples dynamite to his face I smile. Not that the five minutes of Sam yanking on his eyeball with a grappling gun wasn't hilarious as well. Completely summed up Starscream's all-mouth-and-no-trousers nature.
 
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Old 2011-07-01, 08:57 PM   #49
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It's been a few days now since i saw the movie, so I can't remember, but did DOTM ever state exactly why Sentinel was the only one that could activate the pillars? At one point Dr. McDreamy reactivated them, but perhaps because Sentinel had already done it.
I thought it was more a case of Sentinel had the control one and no-one was particularly sure they could take it off him - anyone could have activated it, but they'd need the control pillar first, and Sentinel had it. Though it did seem to be implied that Sentinel created the system, so it might have been something simple like the equivalent of a password to start.

Bearing in mind that he was the only person who was in a position to activate them at any point it seems fairly irrelevant, though. Megatron was in no condition to take it off him, and seeing as Sentinel v Optimus was going in Sentinel's favour, it's fair to say that might have been the case when the deal was originally struck.

The only bit that really doesn't gel about the Sentinel/Megatron thing was why they shot his ship down of the deal had already been struck - possibly Megatron realised the Decepticons were going to win anyway and reneged on the deal. There was certainly a lot of unexplored potential (or unaddressed problems if we're being cynical) in there.
 
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Old 2011-07-01, 09:01 PM   #50
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Every time someone mentions Starscream dying after Sam staples dynamite to his face I smile. Not that the five minutes of Sam yanking on his eyeball with a grappling gun wasn't hilarious as well. Completely summed up Starscream's all-mouth-and-no-trousers nature.

Though it's a shame we never really got to see the more dangerous and competent character from the first movie in the sequels, even if him taking out those helicopter things came close. On the other hand, we never had a Starscream betrays Megatron moment so that may be an acceptable trade off.

There were probably too many moments of humans doing things that should kill them, a bit of suspension of disbelief is fine but by the time Lennox and Sam walked away from getting yanked about and smashed into things by Starscream it was pushing it a bit.

How many named Decepticons are still out there? I was actually surprised to see both Starscream and Megatron peg it, as I thought at least one of the big two would have been left around for another sequel (whilst I know it hasn't opened as strongly as ROTF it'll have to bomb really badly for there not to be another even if there is a bit of a longer gap and a new creative team).

Actually, assuming a longer wait for the next movie that would allow him to get a couple of larger films under him belt, I think Duncan Jones would be an excellent left field choice for new director. Both Moon and Source Code had, despite low budgets, excellently realised complicated effects sequences that were pretty much pulled off seamlessly (to the point the later almost looks like it has very few effects in it, I didn't realise there were almost no shots of a real train in it whilst watching), and the scenes of two Sam Rockwell's hanging out in Moon were wonderfully done.
 
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Old 2011-07-01, 09:08 PM   #51
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(even if there wasn't really a forest fight moment)
Prime's flying skating blade wielding charge would have been there, if it hadn't been almost entirely in the trailer. I'm really regretting seeing the trailer at all, to be honest - the ones for the first two films didn't give much away, but the DOTM one did seem to have a lot of the best bits in it. So, if there's another one, I'm avoiding spoilers and trailers this time.

Still got surprised by Shockwave and Sentinel Prime being in it, though, which completely validated my approach and my ardent belief that Transformers news fever is ruining Transformers fandom.


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The Wreckers came with the second wave of Autobots, presumably the new characters in ROTF, so where were they during the potentially planet destroying all hands on deck crisis in that film (the other new guys here get a pass as their origin isn't specified and thus could have come in a third or fourth wave)?.
Was the crisis all hands on deck? NEST had to use subterfuge to pack the Autobots they had at their base in ROTF - if the Wreckers were there maintaining the ship, how would they ship them over without tipping off Galloway? They could have been stood down and under guard at the rocket pad. TBH, the term "second wave" is so vague that unless the first wave is specifically defined I wouldn't even count that as an inconsistency - are the batch from the '07 film counted as a wave, or are NEST only counting the waves that have arrived since the alliance? Could mean anything.

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Epps' subplot with rounding up the old NEST troopers felt fairly redundant, he could just as easily still been in active service and part of the advanced NEST scouting party with Sam. Surely he's not such a popular character they thought he needed his own mini-adventure?
I liked him having something a bit different to do after being "Guy Who Speaks to Lennox" in RotF. The idea of him rounding up a few old buddies to spring woman and then heading to Chicago to find out they were fuXX0red was a nice subversion.
 
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Old 2011-07-01, 09:18 PM   #52
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Prime's flying skating blade wielding charge would have been there, if it hadn't been almost entirely in the trailer. I'm really regretting seeing the trailer at all, to be honest - the ones for the first two films didn't give much away, but the DOTM one did seem to have a lot of the best bits in it. So, if there's another one, I'm avoiding spoilers and trailers this time.

I was actually surprised, and a little annoyed, that the Vault book revealed Sentinel Prime was the villain despite being on the shelves for a couple of months before it came out. The tie in comics and books are fair enough and I avoided that, but I'm not sure a general guide book needed to go that into the plot.

I'm now not sure if I'd have been surprised or not. Certainly I wouldn't have expected them to pull the "Baddy comes from a long crashed ship where he's been hanging about for years waiting to use his doomsday device" thing two films in a row.

It's fun seeing people on Gallifrey Base accuse the Cybertron in Earth's orbit scenes ripping off the Gallifrey bits in the last Tennant Who. Though thinking about it, The Ultimate Doom was the only one of the three to acknowledge the devastating effect this would have on Earth despite being the silly illogical cartoon one.
 
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Old 2011-07-01, 09:21 PM   #53
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Though it's a shame we never really got to see the more dangerous and competent character from the first movie in the sequels, even if him taking out those helicopter things came close. On the other hand, we never had a Starscream betrays Megatron moment so that may be an acceptable trade off.
TBH, the more I think about Starscream in the second two, the more his competence in the first one looks almost... accidental. A lot of it was rather open to interpretation in the first place - I liked to think the way he flitted in and out of the Mission City battle was down to him not particularly giving a shit if Megatron won or not, but allied to the other two films it looks more like he's rubbish.

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How many named Decepticons are still out there? I was actually surprised to see both Starscream and Megatron peg it, as I thought at least one of the big two would have been left around for another sequel (whilst I know it hasn't opened as strongly as ROTF it'll have to bomb really badly for there not to be another even if there is a bit of a longer gap and a new creative team).
Did Laserbeak make it? I lost track of him a little bit after Bumblebee gatling-gunned the office. If not, I make it about none of them [in terms of guys who've been named in films... No idea if some of the guys in Chicago have toys named after Armada Minicons or whatever].

Was that a Scalpel/Doctor on Megatron's head (and soon squashed) in Africa? Looked like it in the cinema, but I can't make it out on the cam I downloaded...


I'd be interested to see what they do with the films now... They'd have to give it a bit for a reboot. Most cinemagoers have only just acquainted themselves to Transformers, compared to Trek or Bond which've been running for decades.

There's grounds for a sequel, though - while all the big names are out of the way in terms of Decepticons, they'd spent the last two films having the shit knocked out of them. The average child might be alright with Megatron being a regular loser in whatever cartoon series, but for adults he's in danger of becoming a Blofeld/Lex Luthor style bungling idiot ("How is he seen as X's greatest enemy when he's lost for four films on the trot?"). The films have shown they're unafraid to stray from the old G1 names for a bad guy (Fallen/Sentinel), meaning we could have a bunch of Decepticons arrive led by Bludgeon or Thunderwing or Windrazor or something.

The other interesting thing is that largely Sam and Bumblebee were a lot less inseperable than the last two films, as if to say they're independant of each other and Bumblebee seems to want more from his life than living in Sam's garage and maybe paving the way for a fourth film without Lebouef but with Bumblebee; they also handled the absence of Mikaela pretty well.

Like I say, though, I won't be gutted if it ends there, though. Only the naive would think the big budget film nature could lead to a Last Stand/Target/War Without End style story, and that it would be successful. We got three respectable action films out of it that tried a few new things albeit with varying levels of success, and that's not bad considering a decade ago we were looking at the ****ing Energon trilogy and Dreamwave as the future.

Wasn't there some shit about how Silverbolt was meant to be in this, voiced by some guy from Fresh Prince?
 

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Old 2011-07-01, 09:33 PM   #54
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I'm now not sure if I'd have been surprised or not. Certainly I wouldn't have expected them to pull the "Baddy comes from a long crashed ship where he's been hanging about for years waiting to use his doomsday device" thing two films in a row.
I think Sentinel might have worked better if he'd struck the deal after being revived - say, he learns that the Decepticons have the rest of the pillars and wants Cybertron back and joins up with them then after realising there's no way Optimus will help him at the cost of the Earth. As it was, I'm not sure quite what the need was for him to go quite so mental - why not just break into the safe at some random point rather than just blowing the shit out of everyone? Great drama, but it didn't make much sense.
 
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Old 2011-07-01, 10:08 PM   #55
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TBH, the more I think about Starscream in the second two, the more his competence in the first one looks almost... accidental. A lot of it was rather open to interpretation in the first place - I liked to think the way he flitted in and out of the Mission City battle was down to him not particularly giving a shit if Megatron won or not, but allied to the other two films it looks more like he's rubbish.
That's pretty much the only way to take his characterisation in a consistent way really. It's a slight shame as the plane jumping bit in the first is still one of my favourite moments and probably the best use of transformation in battle in all three films, it'd be nice if it was intentional rather than accidental brilliance on the characters part.

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Did Laserbeak make it? I lost track of him a little bit after Bumblebee gatling-gunned the office. If not, I make it about none of them [in terms of guys who've been named in films... No idea if some of the guys in Chicago have toys named after Armada Minicons or whatever].
Laserbeak definately died, IIRC he got his head ripped off didn't he? Oh, and personally the possibly unintentional piss take of stock fembot design (pink!) in his one disguise was brilliant.

That's a fairly brutal clearing of the decks really isn't it?

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I'd be interested to see what they do with the films now... They'd have to give it a bit for a reboot. Most cinemagoers have only just acquainted themselves to Transformers, compared to Trek or Bond which've been running for decades.
Yeah, assuming the final totals make another sequel worthwhile and Paramount being keen to keep up the momentum the films have built up I think the smart money would be on a 2014 release for the forth, nice big cross promotional tie in for the Anniversary as they've done successfully with Trek on two occasions (and Eon are about to do for a second time with Bond), and that would be far to soon to completely revamp it.

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The films have shown they're unafraid to stray from the old G1 names for a bad guy (Fallen/Sentinel), meaning we could have a bunch of Decepticons arrive led by Bludgeon or Thunderwing or Windrazor or something.
My thinking as well, though I suppose there's nothing to stop them resurrecting Megatron or anyone else they fancy bringing back (Bay's "Rules" about such things for this film aren't likely to be considered by the next director).

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The other interesting thing is that largely Sam and Bumblebee were a lot less inseperable than the last two films, as if to say they're independant of each other and Bumblebee seems to want more from his life than living in Sam's garage and maybe paving the way for a fourth film without Lebouef but with Bumblebee; they also handled the absence of Mikaela pretty well.
Yep, the only way I can see Lebouef (or indeed Fox and the chap who plays Lennox) coming back is perhaps as a small hand over cameo, at least in the immediate future. Give it a few years depending on how their careers going and they might do a Vin Dissel and come back for the sixth or seventh film. More likely is the bit players carrying on, people like Morshower or even Simmons.

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Like I say, though, I won't be gutted if it ends there, though. Only the naive would think the big budget film nature could lead to a Last Stand/Target/War Without End style story, and that it would be successful. We got three respectable action films out of it that tried a few new things albeit with varying levels of success, and that's not bad considering a decade ago we were looking at the ****ing Energon trilogy and Dreamwave as the future.
I'm torn, on the one hand I'd like to see someone else have a go in the directors chair and try out new things, on the other there's always the danger of franchise fatigue setting in, especially if each film starts making slightly less than its predecessor meaning we get a series of decreasing budgets.

Mind, the success of the first two films alone I think will mean more live action films at some point regardless, even if it's in ten years as a complete and utter reboot. One thing to thank (or curse I suppose if you really hate how things have turned out) Bay for is that he's established Transformers as a genuine Hollywood franchise, and they rarely stay dead, even if they have long periods of hybernation. And the appeal of it from a franchise perspective is that it's one of the very few film series that isn't dependent on a main cast. All the humans are replaceable, as are the voice actors (Cullen's the only one with enough lines where general audiences might notice the difference, but if they got Kaye or Chalk in how much would it really affect the films?).

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Wasn't there some shit about how Silverbolt was meant to be in this, voiced by some guy from Fresh Prince?
I've seen various places claim that, but unless I'm mistaken the only direct source for it is that interview someone posted a while back where, IIRC, he wasn't very specific on what he was doing the voice for, could be a computer game, Prime or something similar. Though I suppose it'll take a check of the credits to see if he wasn't doing a voice (well, grunting) for a generic Con that might have been called Silverbolt at some point.

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I think Sentinel might have worked better if he'd struck the deal after being revived - say, he learns that the Decepticons have the rest of the pillars and wants Cybertron back and joins up with them then after realising there's no way Optimus will help him at the cost of the Earth. As it was, I'm not sure quite what the need was for him to go quite so mental - why not just break into the safe at some random point rather than just blowing the shit out of everyone? Great drama, but it didn't make much sense.
That might have helped. IIRC The Vault actually makes it sound like he went crazy after being on the Moon alone for so long and that's what made him evil,if that's taken from an earlier draft they may have been thinking more along those lines at some point. Oh, and Star Trek on TV was cute, the Enterprise gag was tollerable, having him actually quote bits of Khan was a bit much.

As for the Decepticons shooting the Arc down, I think the most likely explanation is the ones firing didn't know about the alliance, if it were a top secret thing. They probably thought they were doing a good job. Shame a line like that couldn't have made the film though.
 
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Old 2011-07-02, 01:28 AM   #56
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Was that a Scalpel/Doctor on Megatron's head (and soon squashed) in Africa? Looked like it in the cinema, but I can't make it out on the cam I downloaded...
Yep. Well at least his character model. At points Megatron has 3-4 of them on his head trying to do repairs.

ALS, Laserbeak got his head shot off when Sam/Bumblebee rescued Carly with the Decepticon fighter. Laserbeak jumps on Sam, the wrestle, Sam shoves the 'cons head in front of a gun and Bee shoots.
 
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Old 2011-07-02, 02:10 AM   #57
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Carly felt too much like she'd been rewritten, with the high class job especially a desperate attempt to say "Loook! She's totally different!". She didn't really convince as a love interest for Sam, whereas Mikaela's sarky grease-monkey act and independant streak (especially in the first film) does a bit more - she seemed a little bit more of an oddball than the far-too-perfect Carly.
Carly really didn't sell her relationship with Sam. It was as if they were forced to be together. There was no chemistry between Shia and Rosie Huntington-Whiteley. I found that the best parts of the movie involved her trying to act scared. It was as if I was watching a spoof of a transformers movie. While she may be a super star model she is a pretty average actress.While the movie was lukewarm i think transformers 3 toys will do well. Ultimate optimus prime looks fantastic.
 

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Old 2011-07-02, 04:08 AM   #58
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I loved the movie and so far have seen it twice. Next up will be to check it in IMAX and have my hearing blown out due to the Albany NY IMAX loving to prove they have a 100,000 or whatever insane amount of wattage surround sound system.

But if anything if someone could edit out some of the human scenes and get the movie to about 110 minutes with the hour slaughter in Chitown we would have a wicked badass movie. But even with all the filler I never once found myself checking my watch til I left the movie and realised it was over 2 hours long.
 

The bunnies, they give me knowledge it is neat.

The only necessity for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.
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Old 2011-07-02, 04:33 AM   #59
Cliffjumper
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D'oh, how did I forget Laserbeak's death? So, yeh, that makes it no surviving named Decepticons, except Wheelie perhaps. Barricade definitely got it in the post-execution melee; it'll be interesting to see what IDW do now that the lynchpin of their Movieverse comics is out of the picture. Hell, it'll be interesting to see what they do full-stop - my money's on basically ignoring the finality of the deaths of the Decepticons in order to continue turning the comics into some wet-brained G1 series.
 
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Old 2011-07-02, 07:07 AM   #60
inflatable dalek
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If it's anything like the last two movie lines IDW will no doubt be helped out by a variety of new/repaint toys continuing for a while yet to pad out the ranks. Titan seem to have made a poor choice in only doing the one issue set before the film this time though (even if it's understandable after the Skids and Mudflap stuff from last time suffered from going on for about 7 issues too long), there's no where really to take it in the immediate future.

Actually, the last two ROTF Titan issues do show exactly how much advanced info the comic people really get given, something published only a couple of months before the third film came out does a plot where Wheelie has enough of being treated like shit by the Autobots and returns to Megatron, leading the good guys into a trap that gets one unlucky toy Autobot brutally killed. Even with the ending being slightly fudged so the Autobots don't know he turned traitor and he could in theory carry on as before, it's completely at odds with his happy camper who doesn't hang out with the main Autobot forces portrayal here.

And thinking about it, Carly's brand new job of handling a classic car collection is exactly the sort of thing Mikaela would have gone for isn't it? That coupled with the fact Lennox acts like he has a clue who she is (despite the implication in the last film being these guys don't hang out together between world saving events) does suggest there was a least a draft with her in it that didn't see her role get changed very much as they went along.
 
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