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Old 2013-11-01, 01:43 PM   #1
Knightdramon
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Default Dark Cybertron crossover; speculation

We're less than a week to the first issue of the BIGGEST CROSSOVER EVER THAT WILL CHANGE EVERYTHING FOREVER, as IDW puts it.

They made a similar comment for Chaos, and it brought two great series, so I'll take their word this time.

The known;
  • The three factions on Cybertron are nearly under attack/revelation by Shockwave
  • Soundwave, as the head of the Decepticons at the moment, knows part of what's going on.
  • Starscream is nearly clueless, but he's got the numbers under his wing
  • Bumblebee is again clueless, and he's got a few Autobots that are in disarray. He's got a makeshift Devastator and the Dinobots around, though.
  • Orion Pax and Rodimus throw themselves into the Dead Universe for some reason

The almost known/semi-revealed;
  • Megatron gets back to action
  • The Lost Light is under attack by something/some force
  • Galvatron comes back
  • Nova Prime possibly comes back
  • There's something going on about Shockwave using a Necrotitan to subdue Cybertron

The speculation;
  • Nova Prime is still alive, trapped in the DU once again, and Prime and Rodimus somehow get him back to life/around. Unsure if he'll be a villain or if he'll join the cast against Jhiaxus
  • It's still unclear what Shockwave wants to do, besides "bring Cybertron back to its Golden Age". Which involves using a Dead Metrotitan revived by Ore 0 or something.
  • While the whole bringing the planet back to the best age sounds benevolent, the fact that it's carried out by the biggest villains of the race while using a zombie titan seems fishy
  • This appears to be Jhiaxus' master plan, finally free of any sort of obedience to Nova's scheme. Which is why I believe, if Nova will come back, he'll be opposed to it. Chiefly because he won't be at the top.
  • Galvatron will probably re-materialize like Prime did. It just takes longer for him, somehow.

 

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Old 2013-11-01, 02:37 PM   #2
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A Titan gestalt will be created that will then sit down and explain to the reader every single remaining continuity error in the entire IDW universe.

More seriously, I just don't want it to suck.
 
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Old 2013-11-01, 04:10 PM   #3
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Also, time-travel will happen. We may get two Cyclonii.
 
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Old 2013-11-01, 10:23 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by inflatable dalek View Post
A Titan gestalt will be created that will then sit down and explain to the reader every single remaining continuity error in the entire IDW universe.
Barber appearing as himself ...?



I hope it isn't rubbish too. otherwise i will be sad.



stupid dead universe.
 
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Old 2013-11-01, 11:50 PM   #5
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It will finally get all the continuity-fixing out of Barber/ Roberts' systems and then MTMTE and RID will more or less carry on from where they were but even better than before.
 

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Old 2013-11-02, 08:13 AM   #6
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Well... if MTMTE absolutely has to be interrupted for the goddamned Dead Universe and Titans juiced up on Ore-Whatever, at very least I expect to see Kup.

That aside, expectations are set to low.
 
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Old 2013-11-02, 10:09 AM   #7
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I only read MTMTE.

So Dark Cybertron begins in MTMTE issue 23 and takes over that comic for five issues. Then in order to continue reading the Dark Cybertron plot I then have to buy RID issues 28-32. After that everything carries on as normal with the two titles?

OR... does Dark Cybertron somehow involve both comics at the same time, so next month I have to buy Issues 23-27 of MTMTE and RID to get the full Dark Cybertron story?

For anyone following one of these comics casually, this sounds like an almighty balls-up of an idea.
 



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Old 2013-11-02, 03:04 PM   #8
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It runs concurrently in both books, with a "special" Dark Cybertron titled issue at each end. Basically a ploy to try to get people to read the disappointing RID title, although realistically it's more likely to harm sales of both.

At least there's a lack of people here who'd be suggesting that folk not buying the title (because they're waiting out the bullshit) shouldn't comment, or folk buying and slating should stop buying (because people who're primarily pissed off at the impact on the one book they're enjoying are such a downer)... admittedly, I haven't been keeping up with other forums in some years.

The dead universe was already a lot of hand-waving, followed up by a crossover about nasty things from beyond that casually killed off a character that was getting some development, and now we've got Shockwave brand "a wizard did it" magic rocks. More science in the science fiction would be nice.

Quote:
They made a similar comment for Chaos, and it brought two great series
I feel like I've missed something here. Chaos was passable, mostly lifted by a couple of Roberts issues and a novelty "in the future" story that -- if in canon -- serves mainly to limit the scope for the continuity. The rest (Heart of Darkness, the rest of the fortunately abandoned ongoing, Autocracy/Monstrosity, RID) staggered between filler and tripe.
 
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Old 2013-11-02, 03:08 PM   #9
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At least there's a lack of people here who'd be suggesting that folk not buying the title (because they're waiting out the bullshit) shouldn't comment, or folk buying and slating should stop buying (because people who're primarily pissed off at the impact on the one book they're enjoying are such a downer)... admittedly, I haven't been keeping up with other forums in some years.
It's a curious form of tribalism. I guess it's a desire to keep those comment streams neat and tidy?
 
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Old 2013-11-02, 03:40 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by Denyer View Post

I feel like I've missed something here. Chaos was passable, mostly lifted by a couple of Roberts issues and a novelty "in the future" story that -- if in canon -- serves mainly to limit the scope for the continuity. The rest (Heart of Darkness, the rest of the fortunately abandoned ongoing, Autocracy/Monstrosity, RID) staggered between filler and tripe.
Chaos was advertised as something that would change the transformers world forever, blah blah blah, typical marketing ploy.

It did, however. Because once Chaos was done, we finally moved away from Earth, the writing became much better and "The Death of Optimus Prime" was actually a great read.
 

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Old 2013-11-02, 04:08 PM   #11
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So assuming that Dark Cybertron "changes everything forever" -- and that the positive things come after it's out of the way -- how do we see that affecting the one good and one not-as-good series running at the moment?

MTMTE is still (tangentially) about locating the Knights of Cybertron and owes a certain amount to Trek and Red Dwarf, but didn't make much of the Circle of Light or dimension hopping at the end of the arc -- which may have been because that plot line was compressed due to Dark Cybertron. If so, that's a significant black mark against being forced to take a time out for an "event" crossover. The "changes everything forever" should be an end to distractions hereafter.

RID is essentially a static setup; there are ongoing spats between handfuls of ex-war characters, but no driving plot other than rehashing loose ends. The characters aren't getting to move on and do anything interesting -- whereas I could well see that a "soldiers of fortune" A-Team storyline might suit either the 'Cons or 'Bots, and involve them getting out to see some of the galaxy, setting themselves up as petty warlords or peacekeepers.

What would everyone else do to improve RID and give it some direction? Let's assume that DC does what it says on the tin and carrying forward previous elements is optional.
 
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Old 2013-11-02, 04:16 PM   #12
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I take all that talk to mean that the books will start up again with much the same premises but will have encountered some cross-pollination with characters. eg. Soundwave is now on the Lost Light! Swerve lives happily ever after with Blurr! We killed Trailbreaker! Kup is in it now!

I can see MTMTE beginning with a new lead on the Knights thanks to the Titan business and RID going with, I don't know, Truth and Reconciliation Commissions for the Decepticons or something.

I, for one, would like to see Megatron returning to the main cast but not as a villain, but as a retired burnout who does a bit of mining on the side, for old times.

The big question is what they are going to do with Optimus - send him back out for more adventuring? Seems like a headache to draw him back to Cybertron and such now. It's not like he's going to take a Starscream-ruled Cybertron lying down.
 
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Old 2013-11-02, 04:28 PM   #13
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Well, for starters, Roberts and Barber hinted at a possible third ongoing series after Dark Cybertron.

Onto things that might change; with the last "schism" saga, we went from two factions at war to a redesigned way of storytelling- a quest and the aftermath of war.

Maybe we'll get something similar out of it this time; another soft "reset" without screwing up the plots-or lack of thereof.

Because, all badassery aside, neither series has actually progressed to the story we were solicited. Barbers got as close to elections on Cybertron as Roberts got to the knights; both serving as future reference points in order to have the bots do something.

Since RID is all about trying to unite the two factions in peace, it'd be interesting to try and unite them in war. Use the galactic council or something else as a point of reference, and team them up; have them come to terms with each other while doing what they've been doing for four million years.

In that specific regard, RID has not suceeded. The Decepticons are still opressed, only for a different reason now, and the neutrals didn't really do anything to the story other than put pressure on Bumblebee or get beaten up by Decepticons.
 

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Old 2013-11-02, 04:45 PM   #14
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I'd be perfectly happy if Megatron and Prime sacrificed themselves to stop Shockwave, and Cybertron was also destroyed in the process. All three things lead to rehashes, and could be interestingly explored in flashback without overwhelming ongoing plots. (Assuming RID moves on from "there are a few spats on Cybertron".) Either that or have Cybertron taken over by Titans and booting everyone else off.

Based on what we're aware of so far and with the fact there's a "MTMTE; where next?" thread already, this is a de facto "RID; where next?" thread because the latter title is Dark Cybertron... the book's spent the last few months killing time / setting up the crossover, and the division of focus probably looks something like:


http://i.imgur.com/e2U7QmN.png

Quote:
I can see MTMTE beginning with a new lead on the Knights thanks to the Titan business
Yeah... plus a bit more on the Circle of Light wouldn't go amiss.

Has there been anything official to suggest a reversal on Kup? Could be an interesting complement to either an "Autobot freelance peacekeepers" or a Lost Light story.

By Golden Age do we think Shockwave has particularly Functionist leanings? It's quite a -cough- logical fit.

Where does Primus fit into this? Any further sign of making a big deal about BW characters?
 
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Old 2013-11-02, 06:01 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by Denyer View Post
Has there been anything official to suggest a reversal on Kup? Could be an interesting complement to either an "Autobot freelance peacekeepers" or a Lost Light story.
Nah, nothing official. An upcoming solicitation mentions a returning character. It's just conjecture at this point. Seems like a good opportunity though.

Quote:
By Golden Age do we think Shockwave has particularly Functionist leanings? It's quite a -cough- logical fit.
The problem I'm seeing is that Shockwave doesn't have any sort of ideology. He's always been focused on accumulating power to serve his own ends. Exactly what his own ends are is anyone's guess. He certainly wasn't keen on Functionism pre-Shadowplay. His reasons for bringing back the golden / dark age are currently opaque.

I might be wrong on this, but wasn't Functionism post-Nova? Nominus established the Senate and all that business, didn't he? Nova had his Round Table buddies to tell people what to do and liked a ruck, I don't think he was into dividing the population up along religious lines.

Quote:
Knightdramon: the neutrals didn't really do anything to the story other than put pressure on Bumblebee or get beaten up by Decepticons.
Yeah, that was a real missed opportunity. Metalhawk was a walking plot-point-in-waiting and Sky-Byte faded away after he arrived. The noddy guy and the tank guy were little more than crowd-stuffers. It's a particular shame as Griffith put quite a lot of welly into coming up with weird and wonderful designs for them. Even after Starscream becomes the Mayor he still only talks to ex-Autobots.

Are we to assume that all significant Autobots or Decepticons are either on the Lost Light or back on Cybertron by now? Barring groups we know of like the Scavengers, DJD and the Impactor & Guzzle Power Hour?

Quote:
Denyer: Where does Primus fit into this? Any further sign of making a big deal about BW characters?
I suppose the brute mechanics of the toys will influence things - Rattrap will need an issue to go along with his toy. Rhinox will probably show up at some point.

Do you mean Primus the story or Primus the god? The fact that Starscream has a picked-by-Primus reputation among the people will surely be revisited. Skids might have met Primus (or his closest approximation) on the other side of that portal. Roberts has gone on record on preferring ambiguous deities and mythology to verifiable ones so I would bet against seeing the Guiding Hand literally appear.

There was some loose Unicron talk a while back from Jhiaxus though. Don't like that.

Quote:
Yeah... plus a bit more on the Circle of Light wouldn't go amiss.
Aren't they a dead end? They went to ask them about the Knights and, after some delay, it turned out they didn't know better than anyone else. Seemed like they were more of a way to get Cyclonus a magic spark-saving sword than anything else. Tyrest and his space bridge are the real sign-posts pointing the way, surely?
 
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Old 2013-11-02, 07:28 PM   #16
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But I would say all the major change was put into place after Chaos. The Costa run into Death of... ended exactly the same way it began: With the aftermath of a major event where the war is officially over, Megatron is presumed dead, Optimus quits and the Hot Rod buggers off to do his own thing whilst Bumblebee is in charge for no readily apparent reason. The only difference is it's on Cybertron rather than Earth.

Effectively it took Costa two years to dump the reader in exactly the same place he started.

@Slag: Yeah, I don't know how fair the pre-promotion is being but it does seem to be very much one story over the 12 issues that won't really make sense if you're not reading both. You're also getting Barber co-writing MTMTE for the duration, so if his stuff isn't your bag this may not be the best time for you (on the other hand, Roberts is co-writing RID so that books fortunes may improve).

To be honest, with sales figures pretty much level (at least last time I looked) I suspect the number of people not buying both books (even if one is more out of a sense of obligation) is probably far too small for it to either alienate many or equally have much opportunity to bring many readers over from the one book to the other.

EDIT: Whoops, managed to miss a whole page of this thread...
 
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Old 2013-11-02, 09:11 PM   #17
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I might be wrong on this, but wasn't Functionism post-Nova?
Yep. Just trying to work out what Shockwave might see as a desirable social order. Assuming he doesn't just want drones.

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Are we to assume that all significant Autobots or Decepticons are either on the Lost Light or back on Cybertron by now?
I really hope not... the meanness of scope is one of the most disappointing things about the continuity. There's a whole other planet of Cybertronian types, a supposed population of returnees to Cybertron, inferred mass casualties off-camera in AHM, a rescued population and moon covered in sparks in MTMTE, and all the time the focus remains on a handful of characters. For all his faults, Furman bounced around a bit with lots of outposts and fronts.

Quote:
Do you mean Primus the story or Primus the god?
Assuming there's anything more to come with the disconnected tosh going on with Ironhide and Alpha Trion, a notionally good-aligned force would presumably have problems with an undead reality and undead-making magic rocks. It might be an opportunity for the nonsense to cancel itself out.

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There was some loose Unicron talk a while back from Jhiaxus though. Don't like that.
Which writer?

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Aren't they a dead end?
The way I'd suggest handling it is a couple of "younger" characters amongst them joining up with the Lost Light, so as to not make the whole thing feel so abruptly curtailed.
 
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Old 2013-11-02, 09:16 PM   #18
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I can see MTMTE beginning with a new lead on the Knights thanks to the Titan business
A new lead doesn't need to come from the Titan quagmire. Hell, I don't even expect a 'new' lead, as Bumblebee should be holding a reasonable old lead: The other half of the empty Matrix. I'm thinking that's what points the Lost Light back towards Cybertron and into the Dark Cybertron mess, probably picking up Optimus along the way after he gets ambushed by Jhiaxus' other old mad science student Scorponok (I kid, but wouldn't be shocked at this point...)

Despite all the other ways this whole Dark Cybertron thing could go wrong, I think I'm most concerned about this resurrection ore nonsense. Yeah, it could be nice for Roberts to get back some nice toys to play with, like Nightbeat (always thought that was a crap death, and he'd fit in with the whole Quest thing). But I worry they're going to do something stupid like bring back Pyro or Ironfist.
If they do use it to revive long dead characters, I really hope there will be some side effect or consequence of it.
 
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Old 2013-11-03, 12:09 AM   #19
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Yep. Just trying to work out what Shockwave might see as a desirable social order. Assuming he doesn't just want drones.
It's tricky, isn't it? He isn't the most civic-minded of folks. Maybe he is literally going to turn back the clock to prevent the Ark-1 going into that wibbly space thing, presumably stopping things like the rise of Functionism, the creation of the Senate and the start of the war.


Quote:
I really hope not... the meanness of scope is one of the most disappointing things about the continuity. There's a whole other planet of Cybertronian types, a supposed population of returnees to Cybertron, inferred mass casualties off-camera in AHM, a rescued population and moon covered in sparks in MTMTE, and all the time the focus remains on a handful of characters. For all his faults, Furman bounced around a bit with lots of outposts and fronts.
It's been really lacking. For every delicious hint of a larger world and history ticking away behind the scenes there has been another indication that the same eight or ten people have been responsible for everything within a four million year radius.

Roberts is particularly frustrating at this - he makes a real effort to expand things but still puts every interesting thing the Autobots have ever done as something Prowl had a hand in.

Quote:
A notionally good-aligned force would presumably have problems with an undead reality and undead-making magic rocks.
I dunno, Primus had plenty of cause to get stuck in during the war or during Chaos or Infestation and whatnot. I think the Transformers are on their own in the universe.

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Which writer?
That was Barber in one of those time-travelly RID issues. Jhiaxus shouts about Chaos Coming while a world is destroyed. Evocative!

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The way I'd suggest handling it is a couple of "younger" characters amongst them joining up with the Lost Light, so as to not make the whole thing feel so abruptly curtailed.
Wasn't there a bit of that in a paragraph of The Sound Of Breaking Glass? But yes, a Circle of Lighter who sat out the war could be a surrogate Tailgate in Season 2.

Quote:
Unicron: Hell, I don't even expect a 'new' lead, as Bumblebee should be holding a reasonable old lead: The other half of the empty Matrix.
Do we know where that is right now? Bumblebee took it with him, right? Starscream didn't inherit it along with his nice office?

Quote:
I think I'm most concerned about this resurrection ore nonsense.
There is potential for it to be used for some pretty awful stuff, especially when you combine it with time-travel ore and portal-to-dead-universe ore. I do trust that Roberts doesn't follow the Red Dwarf influence up to Series 8 to simply resurrects everybody ever.
 
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Old 2013-11-03, 12:55 AM   #20
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Do we know where that is right now? Bumblebee took it with him, right? Starscream didn't inherit it along with his nice office?
As far as I know, the last we saw or heard of Bumblebee's half was when he was holding it in Death of Optimus Prime, so it's a safe bet he still has it.
Hmmm... weird. Now that I think about it, it seems kinda conspicuous that it hasn't come up since then. Assuming they aren't going to go "Here's your spare key Rodimus, try not to lose this one", then it's almost a certainty that it'll play a save-the-day role in Dark Cybertron. Only question is whether it gets destroyed like Rodimus' half. That would qualify as a 'changes everything forever' deal.
 
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