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Old 2013-04-14, 09:54 PM   #1
Terome
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Default Tailgate and the Legislators (Spoilers for trade-waiters)

So when Tailgate had his cathartic confession to Cyclonus it seemed like we had a handle on him - he was a pathological liar who just wanted to be liked and was sad that he had been forgotten. That gels completely but there's one detail that doesn't quite fit...

In issue two, after the Legislators had been killed, Tailgate reaches over to one of their heads and says something like, 'I'll be over in a minute.' Later, he asks a specific question to Ultra Magnus about something the Legislators said (clause nineteen eighty four).

Now, if he can bluff head-first into a bomb-disposal situation, it is not a stretch to believe that Tailgate is capable of lying about anything. Playing dumb about clause nineteen eighty four isn't beyond him, nor is feeding Cyclonus a half-truth about who himself and his motivations. His entire persona as a guy who just wants to be liked could be in doubt.

So what on earth was he intending to do with that Legislator's head?

Anybody else noticed some instances where we have to take Tailgate's word for something?
 
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Old 2013-04-14, 10:13 PM   #2
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Yeah, there’s more than meets the eye with him. And another thing, in issue 15 he even manages to impress Hoist and Skids with an invention that’s purposefully kept off panel. Where has this skill for making things manifested itself from?

Further, nothing has been made of his panic attacks since the first issue, and the issue 12 where he addresses it himself as a way to keep calm whilst draining the bomb.
Its almost like there’s a little split personality going on with him. To the point where I’d wonder if his avatar would change under certain circumstances.

There’s lots of things about so many of the characters. The one that still bugs me is Rewind getting Shock’s name mixed up. Rewind... Mr. Database for a brain-guy.
 



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Old 2013-04-14, 11:00 PM   #3
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Interesting theory about the holoavatar. A baby implies innocence but also something freshly made.

I took the Rewind mistake as being a joke about just how interchangable those dudes were. And my first thought about his invention was a horn for Cyclonus but yeah, Hoist seems to be a vital component of that scene.

But the thing is that the accidental nature of his being on board the ship kind of excludes him being from some sort of evil sleeper agent. So what the hell is he?
 
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Old 2013-04-15, 08:26 AM   #4
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He's a knight of cybertron!

No, I kid. kid. But from the mtmte 15 thread:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Auntie Slag View Post
Maybe this has already been talked about; Tailgate's innermost energon being green (issue 12), THAT shade of green like the glowing ball found on Luna 2. Everyone else's energon is purpley.

There must be a significance to that. Does he share something with the Phase sixers?
Perhaps tailgate was a big, powerful legislator but got downgraded to a little body for some crime?

Also, where does the name legislator come from? Is it a fandom thing?
 

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Old 2013-04-15, 10:17 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Summerhayes View Post
He's a knight of cybertron!
That is Rung's job!



Quote:
Perhaps tailgate was a big, powerful legislator but got downgraded to a little body for some crime?

Also, where does the name legislator come from? Is it a fandom thing?
Is the name not in the comics? I didn't make it up, did I?
Aha. From tfwiki:
"The name "Legislators" comes from the concept art for the robots, published in the first trade paperback volume for the series. "

And yeah, Tailgate's green energon is definitely something to do with something.

Did the Functionists become so powerful before or after Nova Prime? In my mind it is after he disappeared but I could be wrong. Anyway, it would definitely be a Functionist idea of a punishment to downgrade someone into a waste disposal bot for, say, claiming to be a champion kickboxer.
 
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Old 2013-04-15, 12:08 PM   #6
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Legislators are named in concept sketches in MTMTE TPB 1.

I think you're reading too much into it. He just kneeled over to check the corpse a bit better, the corpse only said one word [number] so when something similar came up at Magnus's lessons, he asked out of curiosity.

If he already knew about it, then asking Magnus would make no sense at all.

I'm guessing that pretty soon we're going to get some mysteries unfolded about the Legislators...they're up and about in issues 17-19.
 

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Old 2013-04-15, 06:49 PM   #7
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I think Tailgate has some sort of comeuppance coming definitely, as sweet as we all think he is his lie nearly got Cyclonus and Rewind killed.

I did think it was odd Rewind didn't know the names of everyone on Ark I off the top of his head.
 
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Old 2013-04-15, 07:26 PM   #8
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Quote:
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I did think it was odd Rewind didn't know the names of everyone on Ark I off the top of his head.
Almost as if someone with pointy fingernails had, shall we say, slightly edited Rewind's memories about the Ark 1, for reasons as yet unclear. Maybe.
 

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Old 2013-04-15, 07:28 PM   #9
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Old 2013-04-16, 09:52 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Knightdramon View Post
Legislators are named in concept sketches in MTMTE TPB 1.

I think you're reading too much into it. He just kneeled over to check the corpse a bit better, the corpse only said one word [number] so when something similar came up at Magnus's lessons, he asked out of curiosity.
Almost certainly but holding back is no fun. But I do think that, intentionally or not, there is a sinister tone to that panel of him checking the corpse. We also don't know how long he was checking it out for thanks to comics-fu.

Quote:
Originally Posted by inflatable dalek
I did think it was odd Rewind didn't know the names of everyone on Ark I off the top of his head.
Yeah that is odd. Maybe he has a bit of database degradation and knew that there was a Tail-something on board.

But even so, since the Ark-I was this big old cultural touchstone to Cybertronians (Shockwave and Nightbeat presumably aren't the only ones who gave a fig about it) it would be as if 208 random British people couldn't between them name all of King Arthur's knights.

How mad is Cybertronian culture, by the way, that gumshoes like Nightbeat hope to one day track down a near-mythical lost ship? That would be like Philip Marlowe having books about Atlantis on his shelf. In between cases, he leafs through them muttering, 'some day. Some day I'll find you, Atlantis.'
 
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Old 2013-04-16, 10:48 PM   #11
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I agree with you about Tailgate and the sinister tone in that panel contemplating the head of the Legislator. As someone else said (probably Inflatable Dalek), Robert's does everything for a reason, and there's something he isn't letting on. Just like the panel where Magnus' face is all sinister and shadowy when they're discussing not bringing Red back on-line. Roberts must have given a direction to Milne about that, not even Cyclonus looks that sinister, even on his most sinister day at a Decepticon convention celebrating all things sinister, hosted by Spinister.
 
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Old 2013-04-16, 11:41 PM   #12
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Not sure how this counts; we saw Ratchet gaze upon the monument of the ark 1 in shadowplay, and he's clearly around Tailgate for most of his time in the first issues.

Perhaps it's something as simple as somebody reading John when they should be reading Johan? Perhaps their recording devices weren't so hot back then, and even the films Rewind has are poor quality [in their own culture and definition]?

Not buying the whole Magnus angle on Red Alert guys. Ultra Magnus went all out and full of regret for opting out in LSTOW on Overlord, I think he'd have just jettisoned him off the ship the moment he'd know about it.

Perhaps it's the way we're seeing\reading it, but I still don't see anything sinister or persuasive about Tailgate kneeling over the Legislator and asking Magnus what those words mean.

And, just for fun, but not trolling you...Tarn is Roller. You've heard it here first people [actually, months ago when I called it]. Discuss away
 

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Old 2013-04-17, 06:40 AM   #13
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He's certainly the right size and shape for Roller, and Ratchet made that point of the time in Shadowplay when they were all last together, suggesting there's still a payoff in terms of where we can expect to find Roller next.

Still not sure about Magnus. Last time his face went all shadowy like that was when he uttered the words 'thought warfare'.

For Ratchet to write 'bomb' next to disposal on Tailgate's arm, for him not to ask too many questions about Tailgate's ancient internals. But then it's not like he asked much about Rung. Either Ratchet's not very inquisitive or Tailgate has some Steve Jobs-like reality distortion field going on. Is he an early proponent of thought warfare? Is this why no-one remembered him in an entirely different way to Rung?

Why doesn't Rung ask Tailgate anything?
 



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Old 2013-04-17, 07:43 AM   #14
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Tarn as Roller would only fit a little bit. A lot of time has passed but the transition from 'Compassionate cop who watches TV' to 'Merciless killer zealot' needs a bit more fleshing out to say the least.

I guess Magnus' shadowy face could have been a red herring during the time when we knew someone was up to something, so who knows what portents that Tailgate panel holds.

But then...

Quote:
Either Ratchet's not very inquisitive or Tailgate has some Steve Jobs-like reality distortion field going on. Is he an early proponent of thought warfare? Is this why no-one remembered him in an entirely different way to Rung?
Might be on to something there?
 
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Old 2013-04-17, 07:59 AM   #15
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My rationale behind the Tarn\Roller thing:

Head shape is almost a perfect update from one another. Very, very, very similar shape and detailing. Wheel-like structures on the shoulders and similar size.
Ratchet did say it was the last time they were all together, but Roller did not die in Shadowplay. It's a tad far fetched to say that Roller was moved into another unit and they lost all contact.
At the time, Roller was brutalized by the Senate [more or less the guys he was working for] during their plan to mass subjugate all the Decepticons. A plan lead by Sentinel [Prime], the new defacto leader and super cop. Other senate-related enforces joined the Decepticons
Or lastly, he could be just shadowplayed [a big letdown, though] and coerced to join.
 

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Old 2013-04-17, 04:03 PM   #16
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Yeah, if Roller had died at some point in the last four million years then Ratchet may have said so. Instead he goes with 'the last time we were all together', and I could understand Roller's disillusionment with the Senate, and to an extent his worry of Pax's manipulation, and then Zeta and Sentinel just sorta ruining everything.

And I think it's quite fitting that the softly spoken Roller (that's the way he came across to me, I don't know if that was explicit though), should be able to sweet talk people to death. Decepticon's that is. Perhaps in this way he's still doing what he believes is right? from a certain point of view, as Obi Wan would say.
 
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Old 2013-04-17, 05:23 PM   #17
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Kinda thought Ratchet meant the last time they were all together as a group, he may have met up with Roller since then. But I dont doubt Tarn being revealed as someone who was on the side of good. I'd prefer if it was by choice as opposed to shadowplay though.

Re: Rung not asking Tailgate anything - I get the feeling Rung knows much more about everyone and their motives but generally chooses to observe and not interfere over history - kind of like the observers from fringe.

God bless Roberts and Milne - they have us reading into things were there could very well be nothing, or simply distracting from the real stories.
 
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Old 2013-04-17, 06:07 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Terome View Post
But even so, since the Ark-I was this big old cultural touchstone to Cybertronians (Shockwave and Nightbeat presumably aren't the only ones who gave a fig about it) it would be as if 208 random British people couldn't between them name all of King Arthur's knights.
I don't see any issue with it. We don't have any idea how many people were aboard the Ark-1 to start with. If there were only twenty-odd Transformers aboard, like the Ark in the G1 cartoon/comics then sure, a lot of people would be able to name them all. But if it was a massive starship with hundreds or thousands of crew?

The Titanic is a big cultural touchstone in modern culture, and I'm sure a lot of people could tell you who the captain was, or name some of the crew. But could anyone recite the entire passenger manifest and crew roster? I figure the Ark-1 is the same way. Most people could probably name Nova Prime and a few of his top guys, but after that?
 
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Old 2013-04-17, 08:07 PM   #19
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You know, with Roberts doing everything in such a considered way I wonder why he chose the Lost Light as containing 200 crew members. That sounds like every Autobot going. There must be a hell of a lot of faceless types considering the amount still on Cybertron featuring in RID.

Even if he made 50 the crew number that's still plenty of people. So are we talking a known roster of 60 named Transformers and 140 Roberts-made characters?
 
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Old 2013-04-17, 08:25 PM   #20
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Probably - But seeing as both MTMTE and RID seem to be happy to bring in robots from other series as well as making their own, he probably has a list of 100 definites followed by another 100 Roberts specials. I wouldnt be surprised if the reason is to allow him to do a real big death issue - slaughter maybe a hundred of the crew without it requiring everyone to be killed.

That has me thinking of something that bugged me with the Trailcutter issue - that decepticon ship dwarfed the Lost Light - how many cons were on there???
 
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