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Old 2015-05-01, 10:23 PM   #421
Warcry
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Denyer View Post
CW is a bunch of minor characters up against substantially more expensive third party figures, launched after a lot of 3P combiners had already been released.
Yeah, but CW is also Hasbro's big marketing push of the year and (if the pattern holds) they'll be introducing the next few waves of product at BotCon. I can totally see why they'd take a greater-than-usual interest in keeping the third-party presence on the down-low this year. Price and size notwithstanding, it does steal a bit of their thunder when they introduce their shiny new CW Computron or whoever if there's three different third-party Computrons on the show floor already.

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Originally Posted by Tantrum View Post
This kind of sounds like you're upset that Hasbro is doing exactly what they have to do to be as cool as possible about this.
I'm not upset, I just wish Hasbro could say what they need to say in a less-confusing way. I know they can't acknowledge specific products, but there's got to be a way to communicate what they mean at least a bit more clearly.

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Originally Posted by Thunderwave View Post
Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't they say that last year as well? I seem to recall a lot of 3P products in photos from last years BotCon.
It was a while ago now, I think. I remember a bit of a scandal happening, oh...three or four years ago? Around the time that Warbot Defender was a big thing. I seem to recall the stuff being banned, but none of the vendors hearing about it until the show had started.
 
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Old 2015-05-01, 10:45 PM   #422
Unicron
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Originally Posted by Warcry View Post
It was a while ago now, I think. I remember a bit of a scandal happening, oh...three or four years ago? Around the time that Warbot Defender was a big thing. I seem to recall the stuff being banned, but none of the vendors hearing about it until the show had started.
As I understand it, and I could easily have details wrong, it was back in 2012 or so. Kinda got sprung on the dealers at the con and resulted in people selling 3rd party stuff out of hotel rooms rather than in the dealer area. Lot of dealer/fan backlash over it, so the con backed off on the ban till now. While they might not be crystal clear on what is and isn't allowed, at least this time they're giving sufficient warning
 
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Old 2015-05-01, 10:52 PM   #423
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I think hasbro/the fanclub is stuck between a rock and a legal place, because for some reason they can't outright come out and say 3rd party items.

That would automatically disqualify artists not immediately contracted by hasbro, or even the ultimetal/kids logic etc figures, because technically those are all 3rd party, but endorsed.

On fun news, I've purchased Cynicus and Salvia from PSX this morning. Felt a bit dizzy at seeing the total before I clicked BUY. Sh!t's getting out of hand, even downsizing on your purchases and getting like 5 items per year does not work when prices are like that!
 
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Old 2015-05-02, 02:16 PM   #424
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It's all totally understandable - why would Hasbro want to compete with unlicensed merchandise?

That said, there is no competition between the mainline Combiner Wars and 3rd Party figures for me, and I also don't imagine they're stealing more than a tiny fraction of the market. In fact, I also expect many collectors buy the mainline figures as well as a handful of high end 3rd Party figures, rather than the one at the exclusion of the other.

If Hasbro made combiners (and other figures) at the same quality level as say MMC Feral Rex, I'd buy theirs over the 3rd Party ones. However, they simply don't. I'd rather have a handful of really awesome high end Transformers than loads of increasing crap cheap mass release ones. That means a lot of Takara Masterpiece imports as a handful of 3rd Party figures for me, while I'm sure loads of kids (a much bigger market) are buying the main line stuff at 25 GBP per Voyager as opposed to 80 GBP+ per 3rd Party Voyager equivalent.

Regardless, though, why would Hasbro want to promote the unlicensed 'competition'? Doesn't make business sense any which way.
 
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Old 2015-05-02, 03:56 PM   #425
Denyer
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I'd hope the club will be doing the reasonable thing of giving dealers and attendees who've booked so far the option of no-penalty cancellations, although tend to doubt it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by numbat
I'm sure loads of kids (a much bigger market) are buying the main line stuff
Not moving much around here even with older stuff at sale prices. Fully expect TRU not to get past wave 1 CW.
 
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Old 2015-05-03, 06:29 PM   #426
Knightdramon
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Yeah, no comparison for me as well, but sometimes hasbro does get it right.

These times are sadly few and far between. The main difference is that even with collector items, hasbro is also aiming for younger children as well, whereas 3RD party companies just take the younger audience out of the equation.

I do not think that the club will be issuing refunds on such cancellations, but then again, I'm pretty sure that any dealers will just have a truck load of figures on private dealings in bedrooms/at the back.

As for actual stock in the UK---is this a reflection on interest or an over-reliance on the few UK sites? Or it could be hasbro casually throwing wave 1 all over us actually, the majority of wave1 is in stock at amazon, TRU, Kapow and masterforce.
 
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Old 2015-05-03, 06:54 PM   #427
Unicron
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Knightdramon View Post
Yeah, no comparison for me as well, but sometimes hasbro does get it right.

These times are sadly few and far between. The main difference is that even with collector items, hasbro is also aiming for younger children as well, whereas 3RD party companies just take the younger audience out of the equation.
Well, it's a lot easier to 'get a thing right' when you don't really have to worry about budget (and thus paint apps, part counts, size, etc.), making a specific release window, or safety regs like drop tests. A lot of people seem incapable of acknowledging the various constraints Hasbro works under when the bitch about the relative quality.

Oh and when can we officially stop calling these things '3rd party' toys and switch to something more accurate like 'unlicensed' products?
Third Party really should be reserved for officially sanctioned/licensed products, like those Funko and Loyal Subjects things and the like.
 
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Old 2015-05-03, 08:37 PM   #428
numbat
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unicron View Post
Well, it's a lot easier to 'get a thing right' when you don't really have to worry about budget (and thus paint apps, part counts, size, etc.), making a specific release window, or safety regs like drop tests. A lot of people seem incapable of acknowledging the various constraints Hasbro works under when the bitch about the relative quality.
I totally acknowledge the massive constraints Hasbro are working within. I also think they get their product right most of the time for their target audience.

I'm just not really in the target audience anymore (but I doubt Hasbro will miss my money, nor probably that of all of the adult collectors given we really must be a tiny minority of their market or, frankly, they would have to fold on Transformers!), but would be very pleased if my son decides to get in to mainline Transformers when he's old enough. It will be a long time before my son is old enough for third party figures and even longer before he has enough money to buy any!!!!



And 'unlicensed' is undoubtedly a better term than 'third party' but unfortunately the latter seems to have stuck with sellers and the fandom. I figure it'll be hard to shift.


 
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Old 2015-05-04, 12:23 AM   #429
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unicron View Post
when can we officially stop calling these things '3rd party' toys
All you need to do is become a universal dictator and stop language evolving. Piece of cake, really.

It's consistent with the usage in "third party software" or "third party developer". 1P = Hasbro/Takara, 2P = customer, 3P = everyone else (some interoperability being implied). Licensing doesn't net anything other than the term "licensee", and there's licensed and unlicensed 3P stuff.

Besides, Funko and Loyal Subjects get all sorts of other descriptions, like "oh god not more ****ing chibi shit".
 
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Old 2015-05-04, 10:13 AM   #430
Knightdramon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unicron View Post
Well, it's a lot easier to 'get a thing right' when you don't really have to worry about budget (and thus paint apps, part counts, size, etc.), making a specific release window, or safety regs like drop tests. A lot of people seem incapable of acknowledging the various constraints Hasbro works under when the bitch about the relative quality.
I totally understand the why and how of hasbro's situation, but I firmly believe that they still do not take the full appropriate steps to overcome these obstacles. When making toys for collectors, that is.

It's the firm reasoning that whatever they put out, -has- to be marketable to young children as well that holds them back.

I suppose it's all relative though because we are indeed getting an awesome collector's line [Masterpiece] but hasbro still dubs "generations" as a full-on collector's line as well.
 
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Old 2015-05-04, 08:57 PM   #431
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...aaaaand we have Sludge here

Looks very promising. And my wallet will look very empty.


 
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Old 2015-05-05, 05:56 PM   #432
Denyer
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Digibash. Best viewed larger.


http://i.imgur.com/AsXSTYK.jpg
 
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Old 2015-05-05, 06:32 PM   #433
Unicron
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http://www.tfw2005.com/transformers-...uction-182639/
And now someone is making a Signal Lancer (the traffic light from Cybertron/Galaxy Force). Almost but not quite funky enough for me to get
 
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Old 2015-05-05, 07:43 PM   #434
Knightdramon
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They do look amazing together. And will look even better once FT comes out with their Grimlock.

If you ever wanted to sell any version of MP Grimlock, now would be the time. I think after FT comes out with theirs, you won't be able to give your Grimlock away.

Undocumented on this thread, but it's been said that Sever will come with optional eye pieces for both modes, so folks who like the toy version better can just swap them instead of having to buy a different figure.

Still no announcement besides a very optimistic June on Toy Scoria.
 
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Old 2015-05-05, 09:03 PM   #435
Denyer
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Yeah, I'm not hurrying to move on the original.

Unless it's an amazing step forward (in which case I'll keep the Takara one in dino mode) I'm not fussed about a FT mould for Grimlock. That one's got sentimental value.
 
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Old 2015-05-06, 06:31 AM   #436
inflatable dalek
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Yeah, I can't see the point in them doing a Masterpiece style Grimlock when there's already a very well regarded actual Masterpiece Grimlock. A new version would have to be able to fellate me to get me to consider it better than the original.
 
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Old 2015-05-06, 07:19 AM   #437
Sades
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That picture makes me want to sell my husband.

Edit: Desktop naow kthnkx.
 
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Old 2015-05-06, 09:52 AM   #438
Knightdramon
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I would be all up for a new FT MP Grimlock.

The one we currently had was great 7 years ago, but has not aged well. Due to all the gimmicks associated with the dino mode, robot mode is not so solid and dino mode is just wobbly.

Things that I would like improved on the FT version...

More substantial use of die-cast for stability
More solid locks for robot mode
Less wobbly dino mode
Better size proportions in order to fit in better with the other FT bots.

And we're golden
 
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Old 2015-05-06, 03:11 PM   #439
Warcry
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Denyer View Post
Digibash. Best viewed larger.
Am I the only one who thinks all of these MP-scaled Dinobots are just way too big? Maybe it's just because I was more attached to the comics than the cartoons as a kid, but seeing the Dinobots tower over the Autobot cars that much just looks dumb to me. Nobody should be that tall other than Ultra Magnus, Powermaster Optimus, Scorponok and Fort Max.

The original MP Grimlock nailed the size dead on, IMO, and it's a shame that nobody is scaling their third-party figures to match.

That said, that Sludge is easily the best-looking of the FT Dinobots and it's not even close. And considering how good their Slag looks and how little I care for Sludge, that's really surprising for me to say.

Quote:
Originally Posted by inflatable dalek View Post
Yeah, I can't see the point in them doing a Masterpiece style Grimlock when there's already a very well regarded actual Masterpiece Grimlock. A new version would have to be able to fellate me to get me to consider it better than the original.
The original isn't without its flaws (I'd agree with most of Knightdramon's critiques of it) and I don't think it would be too tough for a third party to make a toy that improves on it. Better shoulders, fully-jointed hands and more dino-mode articulation would probably be the three easiest improvements, followed by better balance and not feeling like it's going to fall to pieces mid-transformation.

But could they improve on it enough for a lot of people to consider replacing theirs? I'd have a hard time seeing that, especially when so many companies are doing it at once. Some folks who've decided to fork over $800 to get the other four dinos from the same company will go for it to complete the set, but others will save their money to grab something else instead since they've already got a Grimlock that's really good even if it's not perfect. And I'd be surprised if it attracted many casual buyers at all (by which I mean, folks who'll just pick up one or two figures here or there without trying to gather a complete set).
 
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Old 2015-05-06, 05:47 PM   #440
Knightdramon
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I think that Grimlock has the power to attract more casual buyers, much like Impactor has that power over Commotus, Sixshot over Grandus and so on.

I'm 2/5ths of the set through with FT [Soar in hand, Scoria on PO], so unless something catastrophic occurs I think I'll go full set with them. Barring any unfortunate QC, the build quality is great on them.
 
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