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Old 2014-08-05, 03:11 PM   #141
Summerhayes
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My main takeaway from GotG was that I've been mispronouncing Thanos my whole life.

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I do think the first movie can count among the best films I've ever seen. I do enjoy the sequels more than a healthy person should, but I am a maniac about the movie franchise.
I'd say my opinion matches yours exactly here. I can understand why most people I speak to hold the first one in much higher regard than the sequels, but I absolutely, genuinely love all of them.
 

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Old 2014-08-05, 03:41 PM   #142
inflatable dalek
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I think the simple story of the first one just resonates more with people, I think we all mentally think of ourselves as having been awkward teens so Sam's hesitant steps into an adult world as represented metaphorically by giant robots thumping one another is something we can all see a bit of ourselves in. I think that's why the first one is still the film that seems to be the most popular (in terms of how fondly people talk of them rather than box office) and the one even the people who hate hate hate the others tend to have more time for.

I think that's part of why the Mikaela leaning over the car bonnet bit works better than some of the objectification shots in the others as well, I think just about anyone- man or woman- had those moments when they were a teenager where some passing god/goddess took their breath completely away, and that's what's relateable about that scene rather than the arse and boobage.

Compared to that, the scene that reintroduces her in the second one isn't being presented as a characters point of view, it's literally "Look at the arse on that!" and not much more (and I think Bay admitted he put it in after a lot of the 12 year old boys he'd met since the first one had come out had asked him more questions about Megan Fox's bum than the robots).
 
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Old 2014-08-05, 03:48 PM   #143
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I like the first one because its Herbie: The Love Bug, with robots.
 
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Old 2014-08-05, 03:55 PM   #144
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Yeah, I think there's that. It's just that with the smaller cast it's far more noticeable, and three out of five Autobots don't transform on-screen, not even while hidden by something (which is a trick many Transformation scenes in ROTF and DOTM do) which I find odd.
 
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Old 2014-08-06, 03:01 AM   #145
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[Prime] tossing [Jetfire's] body away after the Fallen gets mutilated is a bit inexcusable, though there's nothing to say they didn't give him a proper burial or whatever later on.
Prime was probably pretty uncomfortable having a dead body on his back. If I had to wear a corpse for whatever reason, I'd toss it off ASAP once it had served its purpose. Not out of disrespect, just out of a desire to not be wearing a corpse anymore.

Ratchet's death may have been the most upsetting to Prime since he was killed while trying to surrender. Prime knew the Autobots were being hunted, but did he know before then that they weren't being taken alive? If not, the killing of a defenseless medic is probably the worst way to find out. Plus, humans weren't to blame for the deaths of Ironhide, Jetfire, or Jazz. Prime's accepted that Decepticons will kill his friends, but he's still angry about the humans doing so. Given that the Autobots let the humans use them for practice/training taking down Transformers in DoTM, there was probably some guilt mixed in with betrayal behind Prime giving up his oath to never kill a human (intentionally).
 

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Old 2014-08-06, 04:49 AM   #146
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I'd say my opinion matches yours exactly here. I can understand why most people I speak to hold the first one in much higher regard than the sequels, but I absolutely, genuinely love all of them.
Ditto. Even ROTF.

Despite being horrible in retrospect, ROTF has the distinction of really, really blowing my mind away by simply impressing me with giant robots when I was in the theater watching it the first time. I don't think any other movie has quite managed to do that to me -- not DOTM or AOE, not the Dark Knight (all three fall under the same point of 'awesome, solid movie but not quite crazy enough') and not the Avengers (which is DOTM, but with superheroes).

I do enjoy rewatching ROTF and DOTM (and I suspect AOE when it goes out on Blu-Ray simply because of the sheer amount of additional action scenes and more sophisticated models compared to the first, but the first movie is the most solid of them all.

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Originally Posted by inflatable dalek View Post
I think that's part of why the Mikaela leaning over the car bonnet bit works better than some of the objectification shots in the others as well, I think just about anyone- man or woman- had those moments when they were a teenager where some passing god/goddess took their breath completely away, and that's what's relateable about that scene rather than the arse and boobage.
Nah, what's relatable is the T&A.

Though like you said, the first movie does it well by portraying it from Sam's point of view -- ROTF and DOTM basically had graituous ass shots on everyone, including Simmons.

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Prime was probably pretty uncomfortable having a dead body on his back. If I had to wear a corpse for whatever reason, I'd toss it off ASAP once it had served its purpose. Not out of disrespect, just out of a desire to not be wearing a corpse anymore.
Fair point, I've never really thought of Prime as being the easily squicked out type going 'oh god get this corpse off me -shake shake shake-'

And maybe as Prime is walking towards the screen Jolt and Ratchet ran around and tidied that up?

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Originally Posted by Tantrum
Ratchet's death may have been the most upsetting to Prime since he was killed while trying to surrender. Prime knew the Autobots were being hunted, but did he know before then that they weren't being taken alive? If not, the killing of a defenseless medic is probably the worst way to find out. Plus, humans weren't to blame for the deaths of Ironhide, Jetfire, or Jazz. Prime's accepted that Decepticons will kill his friends, but he's still angry about the humans doing so. Given that the Autobots let the humans use them for practice/training taking down Transformers in DoTM, there was probably some guilt mixed in with betrayal behind Prime giving up his oath to never kill a human (intentionally).
Considering how much Prime has sacrificed in order to save the humans -- Cybertron explicitly was sacrificed to save the humans -- his mentor Sentinel, his 'brother' Megatron, not to mention his soldiers Jazz, Ironhide and Que falling in defense of Earth, and presumably Sideswipe, Dino, Jolt, the Twins and the three Wreckers all dying offscreen... but all of them are casualties of war.

The humans tricked them, were hypocrites, ambushed them and hunted them down systematically. Prime's expression as he hid in the barn basement listening to LOST Dude threatening to shoot the daughter in the head while both she and her father are begging him to stop... he is just so freaking pissed off and these scum humans.

And while he was stoic while seeing the first footage of Ratchet and Leadfoot being killed (he did go 'when I find whoever's doing this, he's going to die') he doesn't know that the humans are melting them down for parts -- that was what sent him over the edge. He was prepared to go to war with humans hunting down their own kind. A war he's familiar with. This is slaughter and desecration of the dead bodies of his friends.

Frankly I'm pissed off Stanley Tucci doesn't die simply because Cade likes him and he makes a lot of jokes. As much as he's an expy of Simmons (wacky dude who jokes around and later becomes an ally) he's actively doing stuff for his own benefit, whereas Simmons never kills anyone (Bumblebee was attacked with harpoons on non-vital parts, he only arrests the Witwickies but doesn't seem to want to actually harm or kill them) and is working to protect the government. Stanley Tucci being forgiven is really what made me threw my hands up -- I was rooting for Hound or Grimlock to kill the little ****er.
 
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Old 2014-08-06, 05:49 AM   #147
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Yeh, Cemetry Wind make Sector 7 look very cuddly in retrospect. What S7 do is all basically well-meaning errors - they have no idea there are different factions etc, and their prime (little bit of a Transformers joke there) objective is finding out stuff about aliens. Sideshow Bob and co know there are Autobots and Decepticons and want stuff to sell to Slapple. Slapple knows there are Autobots and Decepticons but wants to sell transforming cars to hipsters.

Slapple was actually one of the weakest elements of AoE for me; the way he morphs from being the guy who's seemingly the catalyst for the hunting down of Autobots (considering the gunishment handed out in DOTM and that Megatron and Sentinel's bodies were just recovered from Chicago, there's no sign CW actually hunt down any Decepticons) to this crazy joke guy just because his plan ends up down the pan...
 
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Old 2014-08-06, 08:01 AM   #148
Summerhayes
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They did have the bit with the archeology lady assuming ratchet was a decepticon so we can assume baldy didn't know what cemetery wind were up to.

Also, I'd like to take this moment to acknowledge that Cemetery Wind is a cool name.
 

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Old 2014-08-06, 08:59 AM   #149
Blackjack
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cliffjumper View Post
Sideshow Bob and co know there are Autobots and Decepticons and want stuff to sell to Slapple. Slapple knows there are Autobots and Decepticons but wants to sell transforming cars to hipsters.
Sideshow Bob recruits an army of people who are bitter at the Transformers war... at least LOST Dude seems to just be angry because he lost a sister in Chicago.

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They did have the bit with the archeology lady assuming ratchet was a decepticon so we can assume baldy didn't know what cemetery wind were up to.
No, I got it that Stanley Tucci knew full well what they were doing, he just doesn't care -- while they were meeting in the corridor Kesley Grammer outright tells him they're waiting to find Prime before he can give him the Seed.

Archaeology Lady didn't even know they were working with Transformium at all, and was only given the basic information recently. Considering she's the type to go 'I'll go public with this!' early on it's highly doubtful anyone told her the full story.

I doubt those two laughing scientist or the two ladies knew anything, though, but Stanley Tucci/Slapple certainly knew what was going on.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cliffjumper
Slapple was actually one of the weakest elements of AoE for me; the way he morphs from being the guy who's seemingly the catalyst for the hunting down of Autobots (considering the gunishment handed out in DOTM and that Megatron and Sentinel's bodies were just recovered from Chicago, there's no sign CW actually hunt down any Decepticons) to this crazy joke guy just because his plan ends up down the pan...
I absolutely hate him more and more as I rewatch this movie, because he doesn't really contribute anything right up to the end, his random heel face turn came out of nowhere, and while he showed hesitation in accepting the Seed from Kelsey Grammar he didn't really want to stop anything until Galvatron started blowing shit up.

And when Optimus Prime goes "they are my friends" Slapple counters it not with surprise or indignation or denial, but full on acknowledgement. "They're dead metal!" as in, yeah, 'I just worked with a bunch of CIA killers to harvest your friends and melt them down so I can sell it to people in China, and you can't freaking kill me without looking like an evil alien invader. HA!'

If Autobots die and get hunted down he doesn't give a shit, whatever his partners do he doesn't give a shit, it's when human civilians die because of his product which will impair his business and conscience that he suddenly gets flustered and tries to make it up by turning to the Autobots.

Keep in mind, the only contribution he did was to bring the seed over to the Autobots, which ended up being a moot point because Lockdown can track the seed anyway -- the people who did all the legwork were Fan Bingbing and the Yeagers, Slapple himself did jack shit but bitch about everything and scream and generally make me want to punch him.

I wholly expected him to suffer some humiliating thing like getting ejected out of a plane or whatever, but no, Grimlock just roars at him.

****, someone kill this bastard already.
 
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