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Old 2002-05-01, 01:54 AM   #1
Galvatron's Wrath
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Default Underutilized Characters

Which transformers or supporting characters do you feel had great potential but were never really used well by the writers.

My own personal picks are:

1. Soundwave- a great character but he never really got to do anything. The closest thing to a soundwave story was the much-maligned Carnage in C-Minor.

2.Blurr- he was one of my favorites yet no one ever really did anything with him. I think they should have done an episode where he gets the Matrix of Leadership for a day. I can guarentee that the results would be hilarious.

3.Springer-he was an awesome character but his role was significantly reduced after The Five Faces of Darkness. I don't understand why he was so neglected considering the potential he showed. At the very least, he deserved a stint as Autobot leader.

4.Arcee-She showed great promise in the Five Faces of Darkness story and her character showed great chemistry with Springer. However, her character was seriously mellowed out afterwards and she was then made to binary bond with Daniel (ugh). If the writers had played up her relationship with Springer and had her show more attitude, it is conceivable that she would have become a fan favorite.

5.Red Alert- He really should have been included in season 3.

6.The Quintessons- talk about not living up to the hype! These guys were supposed to be brillaint scientists. Why weren't they treated as such? There was no reason not to make them into legitimate threats. It would have been much more interesting if they attempted to out-think and out-stragetize the Autobots rather than sending the nearly useless Sharkticons to try and score a military success.

7.Marrisa Fairborne- probably the only human supporting character that was not incredibly annoying. she should have been more heavily involved in the storylines.

8-9. Scourge and Octane-Both of these characters were perfect for filling the niche of treacherous but comically inept lieutenant that was vacated by Starscream. Even better, their voices are not so annoying that viewers will want to throw a brick at the TV set.

10.Tracks-could have filled the niche of cocky yong punk that Hot Rod vacated when he became Rodimus Prime.

11.Warpath-They should have just team him up with Blur and let the two personalities bounce off each other. Those two would have been a very entertaining duo.

12.Cyclonus-His PRe-Rebirth character was very intriuging he could have used some more development. Perhaps a story where a faction of decepticons approach him about seizing command for the "good of the Decepticon cause".
 
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Old 2002-05-01, 03:02 AM   #2
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1. Starscream - Sure, he got more than his fill of screen time, but when did we see the Screamer live up to his potential. Never. Because if he did, the autobots would have died long ago. I guess truly evil villains who actually want to kill their enemies have no place in war. I won't even mention the wasted potential of his immortal, ghostly self.

2. Soundwave - Another guy who got plenty of screentime, and expended almost none of his potential. Soundwave was blindly dedicated to Megatron for no reason. We got a pathetic brown-noser, instead of the cool, mysterious blackmailer hinted at in the tech specs.

3. Shockwave - Cybertron's greatest janitor. We got to see Shockwave for about 3 seconds every 10 episodes, and he managed to prove himself a worthless brown-noser to Megatron, just like Soundwave, only worse. Where was the badass of the comics when you needed him?!

4. Thundercracker - The ultimate traitor (to the Decepticon cause, not to that dumbass Megatron) could have used some more development. After all, turning traitor isn't that bad an idea when you've got such a moron like Megs for a leader who's only successes are retreats.

5. Skywarp - For a guy who can teleport, he certainly doesn't get around. Granted, he is a lackey, like everyone else besides Starscream and Megs, but despite his obvious usefullness, he's just windowdressing.
 
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Old 2002-05-01, 04:45 AM   #3
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1. Rodimus Prime-The guy had the most promise of the new characters. Not only did he give Galvatron the spanking that he needed, but he also destroyed Unicron. He had the matrix. The writers really hated the poor fellow. His character was slightly inconsistent in that when the writers wanted him to look bad, they made him a self-doubting screw-up. It seemed like every episode, he doubted himself, but at the end of it, he realized he was wrong. Then there were the rare episodes where he really shines, and they made him look cool because he wasn't comparing himself to Prime.

2. Shockwave-This one's a given. Actually, I didn't even remember him as a character, until I started seriously collecting the comics about a year ago, then I started watching the cartoon again, and I was a bit disappointed by his lack of character. The real Shockwave wouldn't have taken the bull that the cartoon put up with. Not only was this one subordinate to Megatron, but he was also helpless in all those episodes where Starsceam decided to do something shady on cybertron. All he'd have to do is point his null ray, and Shockwave would become as passive as livestock. Comic Shockwave would have taken Screamer out (or would have helped him beat Megatron).
 
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Old 2002-05-01, 04:55 AM   #4
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Blaster- Make him a bit more like we was in the comic dumb down the rhyming thing a bit and send him forth he would have been the best character comic and cartoon wise in more then just my eyes

Brawn- The all around tough guy, he added a macho no so wussy side to the Autobots. He was also witty, and they call him unintelligent. Go watch Ultimate Doom the scene on Cybertron is hilarious. I always laugh when they first get caught 'I'm guess couldn't intrest any of you in a magazine Subscription'. Strong too, this guy tookon bots twice his size Soundwave specifically and whooped their @ss. Also that lame death they give him a shot to the shoulder, and only one no less I still say he should have got back up and took another run at Megs.

Ratchet- How often do we see him? And how often is he actually doing his job as cheif surgeon when we do. Not often enough I'd say.

Bluestreak- They never actually acted on his hatred of war, though the did pretty good on his talkative nature. Though only when he was on screen, I sure with Casey Kasem hadn't quit he would have been in season three.

Prowl- Very underused for being one of Primes right hand men and like Brawn a very cheap death.

Sideswipe- Sunstreaker got a fairly reasonable amount of screen time but what about his bro? Sideswipe the brash endangering others lambourghini.
 
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Old 2002-05-01, 05:09 AM   #5
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definatly soundwave - He was always on and used like crap. He never had any of the story based around him and had a few lines per episode. i think his tapes were used more then he was, like rumble and lasor beak.

Thundercracker and Skywarp - They could have been used a lot more but usually when jet was used for any story it was starscream.

any of blasters tape - The tapes are cool, blasters tapes didnt get even close to as much time as soundwaves did. although i always think of that one scene in the movie then one of his tapes is fighting ravage and he shoots him right in the face.
 

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Old 2002-05-01, 10:19 AM   #6
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Decepticons:

1 Buzzsaw: Sure, we had lots of Lazerbeak. Lazerbeak, Lazerbeak, Lazerbeak. Was Buzzsaw even *in* any episodes of the cartoon? I *vaguely* remember, but my collection of episodes is spotty these days. I think ole Buzzy could kick Lazerbreath's butt any day of the week, but hey that's just me. I guess it was just because he came free with Soundwave so they didn't have any need to promote him

2 Cyclonus: He was a great decepticon because he really didn't fall into the bad guy stereotype like the rest. He was concerned majorly with winning the war, not with blind treachery. He was one of the few third series chars that I can really appreciate.

3 Soudwave: I found his loyalty impressive, actually... He was what a decepticon should be, but I guess it was expensive or something to make him talk more than once or twice per episode.


Autobots

1 Hound: You didn't see much of this guy after season 1. I think he was pretty cool, you know, holograms and all.

2 Skids: Was this dude in the cartoon even once? I liked his character in the comics, and I had the toy growing up so I always wanted to see him but I never did. Phooey.

3 Smokescreen: I wanted to see this guy more in series 3 but like all the autobot cars he vanished because he wasn't futuristic-looking enough. Bah

*grumbles and gets all mad after thinking about this stuff too much*
 

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Old 2002-05-01, 01:30 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally posted by Buzzsaw
2 Skids: Was this dude in the cartoon even once? I liked his character in the comics, and I had the toy growing up so I always wanted to see him but I never did. Phooey.
He was in one episode. And I think he was in the background in another.
 
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Old 2002-05-01, 01:37 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally posted by Buzzsaw
2 Skids: Was this dude in the cartoon even once? I liked his character in the comics, and I had the toy growing up so I always wanted to see him but I never did. Phooey.
Who?
 

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Old 2002-05-01, 02:16 PM   #9
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Originally posted by Snake
1. Starscream - Sure, he got more than his fill of screen time, but when did we see the Screamer live up to his potential. Never. Because if he did, the autobots would have died long ago. I guess truly evil villains who actually want to kill their enemies have no place in war. I won't even mention the wasted potential of his immortal, ghostly self.


To be fair, Starscream did get a few stints as interim Decepticon leader on those occasions when Megatron was thought dead or incapacitated. He led in Roll For It, was technically the leader in Countdown to Extinction, and led the Combaticons in Starscream's Brigade. He also became field leader of the Decepticons in the Movie. Personally, I never thought that Starscream had any potential in a leadership role. In most of the examples given, Starscream showed even less leadership ability than Scrourge. Even when he was not leading, the character always came off as an annoying loudmouthed idiot IMO. The ludicrous amount of screen time this character got should have been scaled down to allow other characters to develop. In fact, any thing that results in Starscream not being on the TV screen is a good thing.


2. Soundwave - Another guy who got plenty of screentime, and expended almost none of his potential. Soundwave was blindly dedicated to Megatron for no reason. We got a pathetic brown-noser, instead of the cool, mysterious blackmailer hinted at in the tech specs.

3. Shockwave - Cybertron's greatest janitor. We got to see Shockwave for about 3 seconds every 10 episodes, and he managed to prove himself a worthless brown-noser to Megatron, just like Soundwave, only worse. Where was the badass of the comics when you needed him?!

4. Thundercracker - The ultimate traitor (to the Decepticon cause, not to that dumbass Megatron) could have used some more development.


How was he a traitor to the Decepticon cause? Furhtermore, given how dominant individual personalities are in shaping the Decepticon cause, isn't betraying Megatron the same thing as betraying the Decepticon cause?


After all, turning traitor isn't that bad an idea when you've got such a moron like Megs for a leader who's only successes are retreats.



I take it conquering Cybertron, trashing Autobot city, killing Optimus Prime, and accumulating vast stockpiles of energon to enable the conquest of Cybertron does not count in your book? Oh, he also took over the earth in Megatron's Master Plan. Also, when Starscream took command in the Movie, the first thing he did was order a retreat.


5. Skywarp - For a guy who can teleport, he certainly doesn't get around. Granted, he is a lackey, like everyone else besides Starscream and Megs, but despite his obvious usefullness, he's just windowdressing.

Quote:
Originally posted by Snake
1. Starscream - Sure, he got more than his fill of screen time, but when did we see the Screamer live up to his potential. Never. Because if he did, the autobots would have died long ago. I guess truly evil villains who actually want to kill their enemies have no place in war. I won't even mention the wasted potential of his immortal, ghostly self.

2. Soundwave - Another guy who got plenty of screentime, and expended almost none of his potential. Soundwave was blindly dedicated to Megatron for no reason. We got a pathetic brown-noser, instead of the cool, mysterious blackmailer hinted at in the tech specs.

3. Shockwave - Cybertron's greatest janitor. We got to see Shockwave for about 3 seconds every 10 episodes, and he managed to prove himself a worthless brown-noser to Megatron, just like Soundwave, only worse. Where was the badass of the comics when you needed him?!

4. Thundercracker - The ultimate traitor (to the Decepticon cause, not to that dumbass Megatron) could have used some more development. After all, turning traitor isn't that bad an idea when you've got such a moron like Megs for a leader who's only successes are retreats.

5. Skywarp - For a guy who can teleport, he certainly doesn't get around. Granted, he is a lackey, like everyone else besides Starscream and Megs, but despite his obvious usefullness, he's just windowdressing.

 

Last edited by Jetfire; 2002-05-01 at 02:43 PM.
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Old 2002-05-01, 02:19 PM   #10
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Oops! double posted. Sorry!
 
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Old 2002-05-01, 02:44 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally posted by Galvatron's Wrath
Oops! double posted. Sorry!
Tripple actually but I sorted it
 

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Old 2002-05-01, 03:40 PM   #12
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Uh-oh, someone's actually defending Megatron's "leadership" capabilities. Pardon me while I get this out of my system.

*proceeds to laugh uncontrollaby for the next 10 minutes.

Quote:
To be fair, Starscream did get a few stints as interim Decepticon leader on those occasions when Megatron was thought dead or incapacitated. He led in Roll For It, was technically the leader in Countdown to Extinction, and led the Combaticons in Starscream's Brigade. He also became field leader of the Decepticons in the Movie. Personally, I never thought that Starscream had any potential in a leadership role. In most of the examples given, Starscream showed even less leadership ability than Scrourge. Even when he was not leading, the character always came off as an annoying loudmouthed idiot IMO. The ludicrous amount of screen time this character got should have been scaled down to allow other characters to develop. In fact, any thing that results in Starscream not being on the TV screen is a good thing.[/B]
I love it when people do this. They must not have watched the show. Starscream had the pechant for killing his enemies whenever possible, unlike some other bots who have bedpan-shaped heads. Sure, people blame the Screamer for the autobots being revived, and the point is undeniable that his actions did cause it to happen.

BUT...who was the military genius who decided to leave the autobots intact (as intact as they were), in front of Teletran-1, which is functional and still turned on, in an active volcano that can produce more of the tremors that caused the Decepticons to be reactivated? Yeah, a much smarter move than what Starscream wanted to do; destroy the ark. And let's not forget that Starscream had Elita-1 AND Prime behind the 8-ball, and would have killed them both, if Shockwave had not come up with "a better idea" (a sadistic execution method? From Shockwave? How illogical.)

Starscream and his fellow jets managed to almost kill Optimus Prime in Divide and Conquer. And he would have died if the Cons had defended the Space Bridge. But oh no, King Dumbass has a much better idea with his stupid acid rain.

Sure, Screamer seemed incompetent at times, but was it real incompetence (come, he's a scientist), or subtle sabotage? Notice how he mentioned not trusting Megatron with the antimatter formula? Are we to believe that he suddenly gained trust for his leader, despite further attempts to overthrow him.

And comparing Starscream to Scourge?! Did you WATCH the show?!!


Quote:
[i]How was he (Thundercracker) a traitor to the Decepticon cause? Furhtermore, given how dominant individual personalities are in shaping the Decepticon cause, isn't betraying Megatron the same thing as betraying the Decepticon cause?[/B]
His actions in "Fire on the Mountain" are traitorous, and it's the only time we've seen the uncertain warrior mentioned in his tech-spec (not like they mean much, but...)

And betraying Megatron is, well, betraying Megatron. It depends on the severity of the betrayl. I wouldn't classify Thundercracker as a Decepticon traitor outright, it's just some wishful thinking on his techspec, just like how I wish Sounwave was the mysterious blackmailer his card described him as, instead of a worthless brown-noser to Megatron.

Quote:
[i]I take it conquering Cybertron, trashing Autobot city, killing Optimus Prime, and accumulating vast stockpiles of energon to enable the conquest of Cybertron does not count in your book? Oh, he also took over the earth in Megatron's Master Plan. Also, when Starscream took command in the Movie, the first thing he did was order a retreat.?[/B]
Ah, out of the cakey goodness of defending Starscream, and into the delicious frosting of pointing out Megatron's flaws.

Conquering Cybertron. Ah yes, his most famous goal among his defenders. Let's see, there was a disembodied Alpha Trion and some worthless female stereotypes (who couldn't survive without alpha) to stop Megs. Oh yeah, big win. And he did kill Prime, with his bare hands, a bunch of weapons, and Hot Rod's interference. And Starscream did order a retreat, because it was a stupid plan to attack autobot city (and I'm not getting into a discussion over this, because I've already discussed it at length. EDIT: Did anybody save that thread?)

Megatron is the greatest Decepticon Leader ever...among people who can't remember the show. He was a dumbass and he screwed up every opportunity to win. He was the Gilligan of the Transformers. One major step in most of his plans involved crossing his fingers and just hoping everything went okay, instead of taking measures to insure it does. He lacks one of the most important traits a good evil overlord requires; the desire to kill your enemies whenever possible.

Starscream's main downfall is that he had bad luck. Megatron's downfall is that he's a total dumbass. In fact, I think the writers gave Starscream's luck to him, because that's all he survived on.
 

Last edited by The Green Knight; 2002-05-01 at 04:26 PM.
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Old 2002-05-01, 04:27 PM   #13
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Underused characters:

1. Windcharger- after watching season 1, I came to like the little guy. Having John Stephenson do his voice is a plus. I believe he had two significant roles; one helping Brawn and Skyfire attack the Decepticons "Fire on the Mountain" and hauling Bumblebee up from a pit. They might have both been in the same episode.

2. Huffer & Gears- two grouches the Autobots needed to puncture the continous veil of optimism and live with the realities of war. I would have liked to see character development- although Huffer did overcome his pessimism in "More than Meets the Eye" after Spike's speech. That was good.

3. Roller- maybe I'll take some flack for this, but after having watched season 1, it seems he only appeared in one episode, and didn't appear to do anything other than be deployed. He would have made an excellent scount, and been a foil for Soundwave's tapes (being the same size and such).

4. Reflector- wasted because Soundwave's tapes (and Soundwave himself) served Reflector's function of espionage. With more demarcation between Soundwave and Reflector's responsibilities, his development would have been interesting.

5. Skyfire- he appeared in a few episodes (half of which revolved around him). After the Insecticons attacked him in "Plague of Insecticons" I saw the potential for a rivalry, akin to the Dinobots and Constructicons. Alas, not to be, I suppose due to legal reasons he was removed (I suppose after season 1). A great character who brought an interesting perspective.
 


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Old 2002-05-01, 04:35 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally posted by Snake
Conquering Cybertron. Ah yes, his most famous goal among his defenders. Let's see, there was a disembodied Alpha Trion and some worthless female stereotypes (who couldn't survive without alpha) to stop Megs. Oh yeah, big win.
Ah yes, because there WERE only six Autobots on the entire planet...
 


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Old 2002-05-01, 04:40 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally posted by Quick Switch
1. Windcharger . . . I believe he had two significant roles . . . and hauling Bumblebee up from a pit.
I think his contribution would have been more significant if he left him there.
 
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Old 2002-05-01, 04:48 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally posted by Sixswitch


Ah yes, because there WERE only six Autobots on the entire planet...
Oh, okay, there were lots and lots of autobot reinforcements on Cybertron, we just never, ever saw them, and they never bothered to provide backup to the Autobots on earth whenever they made trips to Cybertron.
 
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Old 2002-05-01, 05:03 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally posted by Snake
Uh-oh, someone's actually defending Megatron's "leadership" capabilities. Pardon me while I get this out of my system.

*proceeds to laugh uncontrollaby for the next 10 minutes.



I love it when people do this. They must not have watched the show. Starscream had the pechant for killing his enemies whenever possible, unlike some other bots who have bedpan-shaped heads. Sure, people blame the Screamer for the autobots being revived, and the point is undeniable that his actions did cause it to happen.

BUT...who was the military genius who decided to leave the autobots intact (as intact as they were), in front of Teletran-1, which is functional and still turned on, in an active volcano that can produce more of the tremors that caused the Decepticons to be reactivated?


Teletran-1's repair beam was confined to a limited area. Almost all the Decepticons who were revived had to be physically transported into it. Remember too, that the Decepticons were low on energy and on a strange new planet as far as they were concerned. For all Megatron knew, the planet was inhabited by huge metal-eating monsters. using scarce energy to destroy comatose enemies who won't be a problem barring a fluke occurrence. Megatron probably thought he should get organized and explore the planet first and kill off the Autobots later when they had energy to spare. In More Than Meets the Eye, he did send Soundwave toget Teletran-1's files on energy resources. This strongly suggests that Megatron intended to come back to the Ark at a latter date. After all, as far as he knew the Autobots were not going anywhere.



Yeah, a much smarter move than what Starscream wanted to do; destroy the ark.


When did Starscream ever express any intention to destroy the Ark? All he did was seal the entrance way as a "going away present". An act which was moronic in retrospect because he ran out of ammo when he tried to usurp Megatron later and because Megatron seemed to plan on returning the Ark later.


And let's not forget that Starscream had Elita-1 AND Prime behind the 8-ball, and would have killed them both, if Shockwave had not come up with "a better idea" (a sadistic execution method? From Shockwave? How illogical.)



As the ranking Decepticon there, Starscream could have just ignored Shockwave's suggestion and executed Prime and Elita-1 on the spot. Obviously he thought that Shockwave's idea was a good one or else he would not have gone along with it.



Starscream and his fellow jets managed to almost kill Optimus Prime in Divide and Conquer. And he would have died if the Cons had defended the Space Bridge. But oh no, King Dumbass has a much better idea with his stupid acid rain.

How was Meatron supposed to know that Chip Chase was immune to acid rain?



Sure, Screamer seemed incompetent at times,

How about all the time.

but was it real incompetence (come, he's a scientist), or subtle sabotage? Notice how he mentioned not trusting Megatron with the antimatter formula? Are we to believe that he suddenly gained trust for his leader, despite further attempts to overthrow him.

And comparing Starscream to Scourge?! Did you WATCH the show?!!

Yes


His actions in "Fire on the Mountain" are traitorous, and it's the only time we've seen the uncertain warrior mentioned in his tech-spec (not like they mean much, but...)

And betraying Megatron is, well, betraying Megatron. It depends on the severity of the betrayl. I wouldn't classify Thundercracker as a Decepticon traitor outright, it's just some wishful thinking on his techspec, just like how I wish Sounwave was the mysterious blackmailer his card described him as, instead of a worthless brown-noser to Megatron.



Ah, out of the cakey goodness of defending Starscream, and into the delicious frosting of pointing out Megatron's flaws.

Conquering Cybertron. Ah yes, his most famous goal among his defenders. Let's see, there was a disembodied Alpha Trion and some worthless female stereotypes (who couldn't survive without alpha) to stop Megs. Oh yeah, big win.


I am asssuming that most the movie and Season 3 characters were also on Cybertron during this time. Ultra Magnus is supposed to be very good at defensive warfare. The earthbound Autobots also presumably made an effort to stop Megatron. Optimus Prime probably would not leave Cybertron as weakly defended as you seem to think.



And he did kill Prime, with his bare hands, a bunch of weapons, and Hot Rod's interference. And Starscream did order a retreat, because it was a stupid plan to attack autobot city


I am not going to debate the merits of the battle plan but the Autobots were in disarray after Prime went down and the Decepticon forces were still very strong. Starscream could have won a huge military victory if he had just regrouped the Decepticons and launched another attack. His retreat obviously demoralized the Dcepticons.

(and I'm not getting into a discussion over this, because I've already discussed it at length. EDIT: Did anybody save that thread?)

Megatron is the greatest Decepticon Leader ever...among people who can't remember the show. He was a dumbass and he screwed up every opportunity to win. He was the Gilligan of the Transformers. One major step in most of his plans involved crossing his fingers and just hoping everything went okay, instead of taking measures to insure it does.


Yet many of his plans worked despite their inherent stupidity, just watch Megatron's Master Plan.

He lacks one of the most important traits a good evil overlord requires; the desire to kill your enemies whenever possible.


There were some episodes, such as SOS Dinobots where he did show that trait.

Starscream's main downfall is that he had bad luck.


Considering that Starscream still had not overthrown Megatron after twenty freakin years, I have to say that the Screamer's lack of success could be attributed to a little more than bad luck.



Megatron's downfall is that he's a total dumbass. In fact, I think the writers gave Starscream's luck to him, because that's all he survived on.

 
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Old 2002-05-01, 06:20 PM   #18
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http://www.itswalky.com/transformers...mbass0104.html

This should answer the protoform's questions.

Summary: Megatron=Dumba$$
 

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Old 2002-05-01, 06:27 PM   #19
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Teletran-1's repair beam was confined to a limited area. Almost all the Decepticons who were revived had to be physically transported into it. Remember too, that the Decepticons were low on energy and on a strange new planet as far as they were concerned. For all Megatron knew, the planet was inhabited by huge metal-eating monsters. using scarce energy to destroy comatose enemies who won't be a problem barring a fluke occurrence. Megatron probably thought he should get organized and explore the planet first and kill off the Autobots later when they had energy to spare. In More Than Meets the Eye, he did send Soundwave toget Teletran-1's files on energy resources. This strongly suggests that Megatron intended to come back to the Ark at a latter date. After all, as far as he knew the Autobots were not going anywhere.


The fact that the repair beam is confined isn't an issue (besides, it can swivle, it just didn't fire a beam straight forward. In fact, it swivled left, revived Thundercracker, then swivled right and fired on an empty space.) Future sesmic activity could easily have knocked an autobot into the repair beam. Even if the Cons were REALLY low on fuel, they could have siphoned-off the Ark's power, which had enough juice to rebuild the autobots. Destroying the already-damaged autobots wouldn't have been THAT taxing. They could have dumped them in the volcano's magma (or just move them away from Teletran for that matter.) Or they could simply open up the autobots and vaporize their personality components and lasercores/sparks. Teletran couldn't have fixed them with that kind of damage. And Teletran couldn't have fixed anything if they'd have used it for target practice. The Cons could have found power on their own; it's not that hard. They probably only went back to Teletran because of the autobots' revival; with the bots back, they have to move quick. They could have taken their time if the autobots were destroyed.

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When did Starscream ever express any intention to destroy the Ark? All he did was seal the entrance way as a "going away present". An act which was moronic in retrospect because he ran out of ammo when he tried to usurp Megatron later and because Megatron seemed to plan on returning the Ark later.

Sealed the entrace? It seemed like only his last shot hit rock. His going away present seemed to be a volley of gunfire to me. Remember how much he wanted to destroy the autobots during the trip to earth? Same thing. Megatron wanted to return to the ark? Then wouldn't he have mentioned that, instead of his over-confident blabbering about the autobots taking their last flight. Sounds like he thinks it's a waste of energy, since the autobots are "clearly" dead. And wasn't the attack in question after several other battles, in which we see Starscream firing multiple times and even using his Null Rays. Yeah, it's a dumb idea, because he's going to suddenly run out of energy, despite that not being a problem in the past.

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As the ranking Decepticon there, Starscream could have just ignored Shockwave's suggestion and executed Prime and Elita-1 on the spot. Obviously he thought that Shockwave's idea was a good one or else he would not have gone along with it

WRONG. Revenge of Bruticus:

"We can resume control of Cybertron." - Starscream
"I am guardian of Cybertron; Megatron appointed me."

Now, if Starscream was Shockwave's superior, he could have immediately pulled rank and told him off. So what stopped him? His humbleness? Nope; he had no authority; Shockwave is the kingfish on Cybertron (unless Megs shows up.)

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How was Meatron supposed to know that Chip Chase was immune to acid rain?

Here's a better question; why give your enemies any opportunity to win? Remember; KILL YOUR ENEMIES.

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"Sure, Screamer seemed incompetent at times"

How about all the time.

Hmm; all the time...nope. Megatron lead successful retreats; that's it. But I guess Starscream was really incompetent for not counting on Unicron being there when he dumped Megs overboard from Astrotrain. Or not counting on Megatron surviving an explosion that knocked a metal planet out of Earth's orbit. Or not counting on Mirage sabotaging their space cruiser.

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And comparing Starscream to Scourge?! Did you WATCH the show?!!

Yes.

Hmm...no you didn't.

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I am asssuming that most the movie and Season 3 characters were also on Cybertron during this time. Ultra Magnus is supposed to be very good at defensive warfare. The earthbound Autobots also presumably made an effort to stop Megatron. Optimus Prime probably would not leave Cybertron as weakly defended as you seem to think.

I don't buy it, because we never saw them at all (because they were made for the movie, and hence didn't exist.) The movie characters came from the same place the season II characters did.

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Yet many of his plans worked despite their inherent stupidity, just watch Megatron's Master Plan.

So Megs managed to trick the Humans. He still didn't destroy the autobots and he lost in the end, as usual. So that's one partially-successful plan. Look the pathetic failures of the others. Starscream had lots of those that were far more brilliant, and you think he's a moron.

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There were some episodes, such as SOS Dinobots where he did show that trait.

Not very well as I recall. What did he do...oh yeah, he wasted time (and energon) chaining up the autobots instead of just shooting them on sight.

You have to remember; this is the guy who disected Optimus Prime, and just tossed his head away instead of using it for target practice upon removal.

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Considering that Starscream still had not overthrown Megatron after twenty freakin years, I have to say that the Screamer's lack of success could be attributed to a little more than bad luck.

Considering how much luck Megatron had, I'm amazed at how an uppercut and a fall from a cliff managed to almost do him in, considering how he bumbled his way through his plans. Remember, a ship loaded with energon cubes explodes with enough force to knock Cybertron, a metal planet, out of it's orbit around earth, but doesn't kill Megs. Right...
 
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Old 2002-05-01, 07:38 PM   #20
Sixswitch
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Quote:
Originally posted by Snake

They could have dumped them in the volcano's magma (or just move them away from Teletran for that matter.) Or they could simply open up the autobots and vaporize their personality components and lasercores/sparks. Teletran couldn't have fixed them with that kind of damage. And Teletran couldn't have fixed anything if they'd have used it for target practice. The Cons could have found power on their own; it's not that hard. They probably only went back to Teletran because of the autobots' revival; with the bots back, they have to move quick. They could have taken their time if the autobots were destroyed.
Yes, but if they did this, guess which cartoon we wouldn't be debating right now?

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Quote:
Sealed the entrace? It seemed like only his last shot hit rock. His going away present seemed to be a volley of gunfire to me.
Don't you think it's rather futile for Starscream to try and destroy a shuttle (which was half entombed in rock anyway) with his arm lasers? He'd need much more powerful weapons to do that. A bit dumb of him, I would think.

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Quote:
WRONG. Revenge of Bruticus:

"We can resume control of Cybertron." - Starscream
"I am guardian of Cybertron; Megatron appointed me."

Now, if Starscream was Shockwave's superior, he could have immediately pulled rank and told him off. So what stopped him? His humbleness? Nope; he had no authority; Shockwave is the kingfish on Cybertron (unless Megs shows up.)
WRONG: Countdown to Extinction:

Starscream: Megatron is no more, I now lead the Decepticons... <snip>. From now on, you will take orders from me, and my first command is: No further attempts to contact Earth.

So yes, Starscream WAS Shockwave's superior.

Quote:
Hmm; all the time...nope. Megatron lead successful retreats; that's it. But I guess Starscream was really incompetent for not counting on Unicron being there when he dumped Megs overboard from Astrotrain.
Yes, if he really wanted him destroyed, he should have simply opened up Megatron and destroyed his personality circuits. Or dumped him into a sun.

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Hmm...no you didn't.
That's such a stupid statement, I'm not even going to bother talking about it.

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I don't buy it, because we never saw them at all (because they were made for the movie, and hence didn't exist.) The movie characters came from the same place the season II characters did.
It's absolutely rediculous to think that there were only six Autobots left on the entire planet. I know you're trying to justify an arguement here, but it's just unreasonable...

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So Megs managed to trick the Humans. He still didn't destroy the autobots and he lost in the end, as usual. So that's one partially-successful plan. Look the pathetic failures of the others. Starscream had lots of those that were far more brilliant, and you think he's a moron.
Starscream never defeated the Autobots, not once. In fact, in Roll For It, the Decepticons get their rear ends handed to them by the Autobots under Starscream's leadership.
Thundercracker: Some leader you turned out to be, Starscream.

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Not very well as I recall. What did he do...oh yeah, he wasted time (and energon) chaining up the autobots instead of just shooting them on sight.

You have to remember; this is the guy who disected Optimus Prime, and just tossed his head away instead of using it for taget practice upon removal.
Granted, two good examples of Megatron's bad leadership. Gotta remember though, that it's an 80s kids show, the bad guys HAVE to lose.

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Quote:
Considering how much luck Megatron had, I'm amazed at how an uppercut and a fall from a cliff managed to almost do him in, considering how he bumbled his way through his plans.
See my comment above.

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Remember, a ship loaded with energon cubes explodes with enough force to knock Cybertron, a metal planet, out of it's orbit around earth, but doesn't kill Megs. Right...
Agreed, this was stupid. Very stupid. Bad Writers!

Now, if BW Megatron were here, he'd have wiped the floor with those Autolosers, especially if he had his TM2 form... But this is the wrong forum.

-Ss
 


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