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Old 2014-08-27, 08:38 PM   #21
Denyer
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Originally Posted by Terome View Post
From the dialogue, Nightbeat and Nautica seem to be completely unaware of anything happening.
Mmm. It's not necessarily an "undo" process... but the narrative device is at best an approximation because each frame plays forward. Possibly the user has to take specific action to change things -- they're stood still, which might have some bearing. Possibly the length of the rewind is controllable.

Odds are if it's a reset there's evidence in previous issues.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dalek
Maybe Ravage will be doing that next month?
Rule 35.

edit:

Do we think the DJD have an off switch?

Tangent -- Nightbeat looks better here than as a Generations figure.
 

Last edited by Denyer; 2014-08-27 at 08:53 PM.
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Old 2014-08-27, 09:27 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by Denyer View Post
Odds are if it's a reset there's evidence in previous issues.
No doubt by midnight an excitable TFWiki editor will have laid it all out.

Quote:

Do we think the DJD have an off switch?
Megatron would have to be insane not to have included one but then he probably wasn't in the healthiest frame of mind when he made the DJD. He might even have set them up with the intention that he himself would eventually meet gruesome Decepticon Justice. That line about them being 'loyal to the Decepticon cause' especially puts me in that opinion...

But then this whole set-up makes me think that there will be a much more interesting resolution to the DJD problem than a shootout or a secret password. Megatron expects Tarn to come for him so odds are it won't be that simple.
 
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Old 2014-08-27, 10:09 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by Terome View Post
But then this whole set-up makes me think that there will be a much more interesting resolution to the DJD problem than a shootout or a secret password. Megatron expects Tarn to come for him so odds are it won't be that simple.
Anyone placing odds on the crew and perhaps Ravage talking Megatron into getting a new body made, a non-poisoned and strong one, so he can properly fight the DJD? Maybe Brainstorm would give him the inter-dimensional circuitry to syphon anti-matter from a black hole finally.
 
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Old 2014-08-28, 01:30 PM   #24
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The Megatron/Ravage stuff is the best stuff! It's great, great character work and does pretty well to make the leap from the Megatron that's all 'rawr die Autobots' prior to Chaos Theory to the rather nihilistic one from Chaos and RID and the Autobot Megatron in Dark Cybertron and MTMTE. It's not perfect, but damn I do love that scene.

RAVAGEEEEEE

Ravage is my new favourite character. Holy shit Ravageeee

You could just feel the anger and disappointment and hope and loyalty in his scenes with Megatron. My god, I haven't read a good Ravage story since like Beast Wars. RAVAGE

ME LIKEY

The horror stuff is fun, the scenes as the DJD murders the alternate crew is pretty spine-chilling (Perceptor being grinded to dust reaching for his ripped arm gets me very much, the corpses and other stuff not really), and the fact that it seems to be an alternate Lost Light that the DJD went after... how the hell is there two of them now? And wasn't the Rodimus corpse they found last time said to be from the future? Did the alternate lost light travel to the future and then back to the past? What about Crosscut's play? This is so full of confusingness.

Are the people who left the Lost Light during Dark Cybertron like Cosmos and Fizzle around too as corpses?

Are these the Magnus, Hound and Drift which the Necrobot lists? Though that would mean the Necrobot has a grossly incomplete list.

I like the DJD and this makes them look godawfully terrifying. If Agent 113 is one of the main five then, shit, guy's a massive shit who I hope gets put down with the rest.

I did have fun trying to identify the alternate-mode corpses... Huffer, Blaster, Strafe and Trailbreaker are pretty obvious, and what I think are Inferno and Highbrow are on the right and maybe Atomizer is on the left. No idea who the big bulldozer is, the only one I can think of is Scoop but he's elsewhere. A couple of generic-looking space cars and a jet I don't recognize. There is a Pretender's altmode too which I assumed is Waverider.

We saw Magnus (and I do like the fake-out that Megatron might be the one to do this in the future), Whirl, Swerve, Tailgate, Perceptor, Ratchet, Drift and Hound... but absent from among the main cast are Chromedome and Cyclonus, but also Red Alert, who's easily forgotten. Also Pipes, who I guess just died twice horribly. Man.

How did the alternate Lost Light get created anyway? Timey-wimey stuff with Shock Ore getting caught up in the engine? How did Rewind get on board 'our' Lost Light last issue/a couple issues back? Will the two Rewinds meet up and have a trivia showdown?

Also, between Skids talking about his friend that has a similar addiction it's safe to say that Tarn is Roller unless it's a deliberate red herring.

Brainstorm's briefcase, even when it's empty, is all crazy and shit. Not trying to think up of any theories so I can be surprised.

Whatever the hell happened to First Aid and all the other people who weren't on the Rodpod but wasn't part of the original Lost Light crew?

Nightbeat is great, Nautica's great... I even liked Skids and Riptide here, even if Riptide is Roberts' stock snarky jerk character far more than anyone else, but really, they kind of pale next to Megatron and Ravage.

Pretty great issue, actually.
 
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Old 2014-08-28, 03:07 PM   #25
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even if Riptide is Roberts' stock snarky jerk character far more than anyone else,
He does serve the same function as Swerve when Swerve is not around, although he's quite different as a character.
 
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Old 2014-08-28, 04:07 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by Terome View Post
He does serve the same function as Swerve when Swerve is not around, although he's quite different as a character.
Honestly don't think Riptide's done anything to make him stand out -- Swerve at least has that 'I joke around to deal with my internal angst/crippling depression/self-worth image' thing going on, as well as the bar thing.

Riptide has the snark that many Roberts characters, not just Swerve (at least on top of my head Nightbeat, Whirl, Skids, Drift, Ratchet and Brainstorm engage in Swerve-esque snarking pretty often, just not as frequently or all the time), share, but without contributing much else.

I mean, he's been around for like two issues or so, but all he's done is being a jerk to Trailbreaker and Megatron, drop a couple of information tidbits here and there and that's it.
 
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Old 2014-08-28, 05:22 PM   #27
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I mean, he's been around for like two issues or so, but all he's done is being a jerk to Trailbreaker and Megatron, drop a couple of information tidbits here and there and that's it.
He is a jerk and a prankster - not a huge stand-out in this crowd - but we also know that he's a professional soldier, isn't terribly bright or well-educated, gets into fights readily, isn't easy to shock and is quick to get bored. As you say, he's not been around long and hasn't really done much but he's not a blank slate beyond the standard jerkiness.

We have yet to see why a new character needed to invented wholecloth for him though. He needed to have not been on the Lost Light for the first season but there must be some other purpose for him we've yet to see.

Also, is Drift snarky? Genuine question - I've got the impression that he's overbearingly nice, eager to show that he doesn't mind people patronising him and is competent but clueless.
 
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Old 2014-08-28, 05:56 PM   #28
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Riptide is a tool.

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Originally Posted by Blackjack View Post
The Megatron/Ravage stuff is the best stuff! It's great, great character work and does pretty well to make the leap from the Megatron that's all 'rawr die Autobots' prior to Chaos Theory to the rather nihilistic one from Chaos and RID and the Autobot Megatron in Dark Cybertron and MTMTE. It's not perfect, but damn I do love that scene.
I have to agree with this. The two or three pages of them alone in their makeshift cell were the best parts not just of the issue, but of the whole second "season" so far. And I do wonder if it's intentional that the supposed bad guys are almost the most sympathetic characters of the bunch -- Nightbeat, Riptide, Skids and Getaway are all jerks. Nautica is likeable though, so it's probably an accident.

The story is really starting to pick up now, and the "duplicate ship" plot is (like I thought) proving to be way more interesting than the "everyone acts out of character to explain why Megatron is captain" three-parter. I'm very curious to find out the cause of the mystery.

Rewind being the only survivor of the massacre is mighty convenient. It really reeks of the DS9 episode "Visionary", where they killed off Chief O'Brien only to replace him with a duplicate from an alternate future and nobody remarked on it again for the length of the show. I really hope there's more it it than just putting the "happy" couple back together and giving Chromedome another chance to do things right.

I'm also glad that the DJD only show up in flashbacks, because they're a terrible idea and the less they interact with the series' actually entertaining characters, the better. It's just a shame that they're destined to return so that Megatron can have a confrontation with them.
 
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Old 2014-08-28, 07:48 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by Blackjack View Post
Are the people who left the Lost Light during Dark Cybertron like Cosmos and Fizzle around too as corpses?

How did the alternate Lost Light get created anyway? Timey-wimey stuff with Shock Ore getting caught up in the engine? How did Rewind get on board 'our' Lost Light last issue/a couple issues back? Will the two Rewinds meet up and have a trivia showdown?
The implication seems to be the quantum jump... thing did the old Star Trek standby of a transporter duplication accident, two ships, two crews both flying about the Universe having adventures unawares of one another. So dead bodies of those who were originally onboard should be about, but not any of the new boys.

The main clue is the bar not being a bar- presumably as this duplicate ship never picked up Skids he and Swerve didn't break out of their suite and find the place during the Spark Eater event, so Crosscut discovered it first and turned it into a theatre.

Quote:
Whatever the hell happened to First Aid and all the other people who weren't on the Rodpod but wasn't part of the original Lost Light crew?
The wiki theory was that, as everyone else was on shuttles that had been part of the original ship's compliment they get sucked off with the ship they were on. But as the Rod Pod was a new addition only those aboard from the original crew got affected.

Quote:
Rewind being the only survivor of the massacre is mighty convenient. It really reeks of the DS9 episode "Visionary", where they killed off Chief O'Brien only to replace him with a duplicate from an alternate future and nobody remarked on it again for the length of the show. I really hope there's more it it than just putting the "happy" couple back together and giving Chromedome another chance to do things right.
There was a Voyager episode with a duplicate ship where they killed Harry Kim and replaced him with the only survivor of the doubles as well wasn't there?

Wouldn't it be a mind **** if one of the previous issues turned out to be an adventure of the duplicate crew after all? Can't think if one would easily fit off the top of my head though.

Ohhhhhhhhh, and with Nightbeat now being written as Sherlock Holmes, does that make Nautica his Irene Addler?

Mind, if he was still being done as a Chandler style detective The Woman Wot Done Him Wrong would be likely to show up sooner or later as well...
 
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Old 2014-08-28, 08:23 PM   #30
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Took some time to read, re-read etc

First thought----probably going to stay away from tweets, reports from tweets etc. They not only overhyped this issue too much for its own good, they did NOT live up to its potential.

I am very sorry Milne, but when you hype something this much, it better have more than 3-4 scenes of carnage, said carnage being on the level or less than LSOTW.

Furthermore, it's probably by choice, but the damn solicitations are so tip toeing around spoilers, they basically have NOTHING to do with the issue in hand. Is it like the 4th issue in a row [S2 strictly], it's getting annoying now.

Anyways, onto the issue...

Again, for an issue so f*cking hyped about the carnage and how it's going to make us "cry" by being so graphic, it's shocking how the best scene is of Megatron and Ravage enclosed in a closet.

Not really a fan of Nightbeat and Nautica as other people are, I actually prefer Furman's more serious, macabre Nightbeat to this one.

Lots of neat side-effects...Tarn appears to know of the Magnus secret, Skids appears to instantly be frightened and able to tell Tarn's work apart, and had a "friend" who was addicted to morphing around...I'm guessing we're soon due for a dual reveal of Agent 113 [Skids] and Roller [Tarn].

Kind of funny that this past weekend I read Chaos Theory and thought that Megatron was too far "gone" from his current self, or the other way around, and Roberts kind of reconciled this on this issue. Still doesn't make up for the G1-esque master plan he had in RID S1.

Can't wait for the big RESET button they'll hit in the coming issues to reconcile all this---no matter how grand and brutal it is, they flat out spell that it's an alternate/future crew that's dead like that.

And, seriously, the DJD killed EVERYBODY? They were having their hands full with the Scavengers in issue 8, but they made short work of a crew of 200 bots, among them Magnus and Whirl? Rodimus and Sunstreaker? Perceptor? Magnus alone is probably stronger than the four DJD non main dudes anyway.

Most powerful scene was the DJD facing Overlord with a chainsaw to the head. The fact that you can't see Overlord's expression makes it even better.
 

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Old 2014-08-28, 09:12 PM   #31
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Oh, I keep forgetting the Roller stuff...Again, something I've missed. He was in the Chaos flashbacks and Shadowplay. I'll have to re-read those.

Have to agree with Knightdramon's assessment that there's a big reset button coming up...anything that whiffs of terrible future/ alternate events never usually comes to pass (with all the cast dead, it would mean the end of the book after all), which makes their telling a bit redundant. Unless its The Terminator.

I am concerned with Rewind coming back from the dead. After the harrowing nature of his departure his return as an alternate version of what we know would suck balls. And be as bad as all the X-Men books that pull this kind of sh*t off on a regular basis. One of the big things that turns me off of a lot of mainstream comic books is their lack of consequence and its a bit of a shame that we seem to be heading down that route somewhat at the moment.

I am sure this will all turn out alright, but still...
 
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Old 2014-08-28, 09:49 PM   #32
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I am concerned with Rewind coming back from the dead. After the harrowing nature of his departure his return as an alternate version of what we know would suck balls. And be as bad as all the X-Men books that pull this kind of sh*t off on a regular basis. One of the big things that turns me off of a lot of mainstream comic books is their lack of consequence and its a bit of a shame that we seem to be heading down that route somewhat at the moment.

I am sure this will all turn out alright, but still...
Assuming it's actually a quantum duplicate thing instead of time travel shenanigans (which looks to be the case as apparently dead Tailgate was suffering from cybercrosis still), I'm hoping instead of a simple turning back of the clock or re-appearance of our versions, we get a merging of the two versions of everyone. So anyone who lived through one version will be alive, but have the memory of both sets of events. So almost everyone would be alive again, but it wouldn't quite be status quo. There'd be all the trauma of dying, trying to live with two different sets of memories, etc.
 
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Old 2014-08-28, 10:06 PM   #33
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What if instead of being a quantum duplicate thing it's actually the universe/timeline being re-edited (a la Nightbeat's suggestion) It would tie in with Rung's comments in his conversation with Megatron, and possibly with Brainstorm's briefcase as well?

Opening the briefcase could have been construed as editing the panel structure (ie timeline) on that page, maybe it had been opened some other time and that's what started all he disappearances? You could easily imagine riptide doing something that stupid, in spite of, or because of Brainstorm's warnings? I can't remember off the top of my head whether he had the briefcase when he "died" with hardhead before he Lost Light set off, if he didn't maybe this was how he was working on getting himself back to life?

Maybe that was the last message from issue one? Tailgate was quite close to the briefcase, what if he was trying to use it to edit a message, including the final one which would be don't open the briefcase, but the DJD skewered him before he could finish?

I'm sure one of the upcoming solicitations could tie in with that theory as we'll issue 34 maybe?

Quite why it wouldn't do anything with the late arrivals I don't know, so maybe that blows my idea out of the water...

Ugh, I don't know any more. Either way, I am liking this issue more the more I read it.

Also, the "Information Creep" poster maybe had a nice sly little joke at/with the reader? "How long can you go without answers?", pretty much describes the slow drip of reveals to lots of early set ups...
 

Last edited by MikeB; 2014-08-28 at 10:12 PM. Reason: Typo
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Old 2014-08-29, 12:18 AM   #34
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Again, for an issue so f*cking hyped about the carnage and how it's going to make us "cry" by being so graphic, it's shocking how the best scene is of Megatron and Ravage enclosed in a closet.
This is a good thing.
 

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Old 2014-08-29, 04:22 AM   #35
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Okay, got a moment now...

Not much more I have to add regarding Megatron and Ravage's moment, aside from how happy I am to see the latter have a more active presence. A new core cast member I hope...?

As I said earlier, some rare insight from both characters. Megatron seems penitent -- or is at least he's trying to be -- and is uncertain of who (or what) he wants to be. The exchange is actually quite touching without devolving into Marvel Optimus Prime brand of self-pitying.

Yeah, this was the real heart of the issue (not that I didn't enjoy the horror/mystery aspect of the story -- it was great!)

I'm still enjoying Nautica, even if she has replaced Tailgate as the audience surrogate. She's so damn adorable. Like, well, Tailgate.

Not too bothered by Nightbeat either. I kind of find his lack of tact amusing. For now anyway. Could see it getting old. Overall, the last couple issues have taken the opportunity to showcase Nightbeat and Nautica. They're really coming into their own as characters.

Riptide... not so much.


Will have to agree with the sentiments regarding the DJD. Namely, that a crew of 200-odd Autobots -- most of which are war veterans themselves, with a few heavy-hitters among them -- are massacred by the five, stupidly overpowered members of the DJD.

Hell, a brain-damaged Grimlock managed to clock that **** Tarn a few times, but 200-odd Autobots? Pfft, they never had a chance.

Wait, what?!

How did the Decepticons lose the war again?

Agree with Terome, though -- this was a fairly effective use of them. Came across as more of threat than the parody we got during their first appearance.

On a related note; surprised that Drift and Overlord's bodies we're left relatively intact, all things considered. Figured they'd be in far worse condition since they were on the DJD's naughty list.
 
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Old 2014-08-29, 04:58 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by Terome View Post
He is a jerk and a prankster - not a huge stand-out in this crowd - but we also know that he's a professional soldier, isn't terribly bright or well-educated, gets into fights readily, isn't easy to shock and is quick to get bored.
Yeah, we know stuff about him but not much in lieu of characterization beyond 'jerk' and 'prankster'. It's like knowing that Swerve is an Autobot, Swerve owns a bar, Swerve used to work in Kimia, Swerve likes to watch Blurr race, but if he doesn't have that couple of moments where it's shown that he's dealing with depression and crippling self-worth issue and that delusion he has with Blurr, he would be nothing but a one-note jokester which would be annoying as hell.

Ditto for, say, Rodimus, Whirl, Magnus or Brainstorm. Backstories and all are nice, but if they don't react to it, didn't show character beyond being 'ineffective leader', 'psychopath', 'OCD schoolteacher' and 'jealous of Perceptor' none of them would hold our attention so much. It's when they deviate from their normal gimmicks that they truly become human.

Sometimes, like Nightbeat, it comes off as a unique gimmick even if cribbed from Sherlock, but Riptide is just being a jerk like everyone else.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Terome
We have yet to see why a new character needed to invented wholecloth for him though. He needed to have not been on the Lost Light for the first season but there must be some other purpose for him we've yet to see.
He could've been replaced with, oh, Bluestreak or someone... but no, we need another new character. And unlike Nautica or Rung or the DJD, they don't serve anything particularly unique that no one else can give.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Terome
Also, is Drift snarky? Genuine question - I've got the impression that he's overbearingly nice, eager to show that he doesn't mind people patronising him and is competent but clueless.
Sorry, Rodimus. I meant to type Rodimus.

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Originally Posted by Warcry View Post
I have to agree with this. The two or three pages of them alone in their makeshift cell were the best parts not just of the issue, but of the whole second "season" so far.
Yeah, I think it's the first issue from the second season which brings up the 'whoa it's bloody good' feeling that the previous two or three issues lack. I mean, they're still good, but they lack the punch that this one has.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Warcry
And I do wonder if it's intentional that the supposed bad guys are almost the most sympathetic characters of the bunch -- Nightbeat, Riptide, Skids and Getaway are all jerks.
The Lost Light is full of jerks, though, as I said above. The only ones that aren't an asshole in some kind or form are probably Magnus, Nautica, Rewind and Tailgate.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Warcry
"everyone acts out of character to explain why Megatron is captain" three-parter.
Arguably this thing right here helps to explain Megatron's change of heart really well... though why everyone else accepts it beyond 'Optimus says so' kind of eludes me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Warcry
I really hope there's more it it than just putting the "happy" couple back together and giving Chromedome another chance to do things right.
Please let Rewind and Chromedome not get together happily? I mean, I like the two, but it feels too much lie a cop-out to that emotional punch to the gut that was the Gloaming. Even if they do I want Chromedome to deal with his darker sides and bring in some of that good ol' angst and feels.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Warcry
I'm also glad that the DJD only show up in flashbacks, because they're a terrible idea and the less they interact with the series' actually entertaining characters, the better.
Man, you guys really hate the DJD, don't you? I seem to be the only ones who find them entertaining at least as disposable villains that still exude a threat. Do agree that the implication that they slaughtered everyone else (somehow) does make them feel a lot scarier than the rather poor showing they had in their first arc.

It probably isn't as seamless as the flashbacks show it to be, though, unless there's something else like a traitor or something.

Chromedome and Cyclonus are missing, need I remind you, and the Cyclonus in the alternate Lost Light might not have had the morality pet that is Tailgate.

Quote:
Originally Posted by inflatable dalek
The wiki theory was that, as everyone else was on shuttles that had been part of the original ship's compliment they get sucked off with the ship they were on. But as the Rod Pod was a new addition only those aboard from the original crew got affected.
So right now First Aid and Bluestreak and Sky High and all the rest are like hovering in space, folding their hands and muttering about how stupid it is...

Quote:
Originally Posted by inflatable dalek
Wouldn't it be a mind **** if one of the previous issues turned out to be an adventure of the duplicate crew after all? Can't think if one would easily fit off the top of my head though.
SPOTLIGHT: HOIST

Though practically everything else had Skids and all the other newcomers around, so I'm pretty sure there's nothing unless, you know, if I'm wrong.

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Originally Posted by Knightdramon View Post
First thought----probably going to stay away from tweets, reports from tweets etc. They not only overhyped this issue too much for its own good, they did NOT live up to its potential.
I stay away from everything and not take them at face value other than the previews. Makes reading the actual thing so much better.

I think... Remain in Light, one of the issues, as well as the one with Overlord breaking out of the cell, were all spoiled to me because of reading a tweet or solicitation.

Same thing with movies -- either you get fake trailers that get you pissed off for something that doesn't show up in the movie, or you get half the movie spoiled from the trailer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Knightdramon
I'm guessing we're soon due for a dual reveal of Agent 113 [Skids] and Roller [Tarn].
Never considered Skids to be agent 113, but that might actually work... sort of? I'm still under the impression that one of the main DJD five is Agent 113.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Knightdramon
Still doesn't make up for the G1-esque master plan he had in RID S1.
Dude's in a bad place and that was the best he could come up with?

Though there is a lot of things I basically just pretend never happen in RID season 1, so screw all that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Knightdramon
Most powerful scene was the DJD facing Overlord with a chainsaw to the head. The fact that you can't see Overlord's expression makes it even better.
This, this.

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Originally Posted by Skyquake87 View Post
I am concerned with Rewind coming back from the dead.
Also this.

NEED ANGST OR KEEP HIM DEAD

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Originally Posted by Unicron View Post
(which looks to be the case as apparently dead Tailgate was suffering from cybercrosis still)
Oh, good eye!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Unicron
we get a merging of the two versions of everyone. So anyone who lived through one version will be alive, but have the memory of both sets of events. So almost everyone would be alive again, but it wouldn't quite be status quo. There'd be all the trauma of dying, trying to live with two different sets of memories, etc.
That might work, though with everybody but these few getting extra memories I'm not sure how well-explored it would be.

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Originally Posted by MikeB View Post
I can't remember off the top of my head whether he had the briefcase when he "died" with hardhead before he Lost Light set off, if he didn't maybe this was how he was working on getting himself back to life?
Wasn't the briefcase around, just not strapped to his wrist? I can't really remember.

Quote:
Originally Posted by zigzagger
As I said earlier, some rare insight from both characters. Megatron seems penitent -- or is at least he's trying to be -- and is uncertain of who (or what) he wants to be. The exchange is actually quite touching without devolving into Marvel Optimus Prime brand of self-pitying.
This.

Self-pitying is a really easy way to make me instantly think the character doesn't have business leading in the first place. It's a really strong scene all around and I would've loved the issue if it was only these three pages, but there's, you know, everything else.

Quote:
Originally Posted by zigzagger
I'm still enjoying Nautica, even if she has replaced Tailgate as the audience surrogate. She's so damn adorable. Like, well, Tailgate.
But without Tailgate's "I will pretend to be a bomb disposal despite it endangering everything else" thing... that always didn't sit right with me.

Also, Nautica reads as being fairly older than Tailgate... Tailgate feels like just this little tagalong kid, whereas Nautica feels younger than, say, Ratchet or Magnus or Megatron, but still around as old as the younger Autobots like Swerve or Brainstorm.

Quote:
Originally Posted by zigzagger
Not too bothered by Nightbeat either. I kind of find his lack of tact amusing. For now anyway. Could see it getting old.
Yeah, for now I still like him, but it has the potential to become irritating real quick.

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Originally Posted by zigzagger
Hell, a brain-damaged Grimlock managed to clock that **** Tarn a few times, but 200-odd Autobots? Pfft, they never had a chance.

Wait, what?!

How did the Decepticons lose the war again?
Because the DJD were busy hunting down all the other big hitters among their cause like Black Shadow and Drift instead of, you know, going after the Autobots. Wonder where the DJD were after AHM when their help would really be appreciated.

Whereas the Autobots sent their own great assets like Metroplex INTO SPACE for stupid reasons.

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Originally Posted by zigzagger
On a related note; surprised that Drift and Overlord's bodies we're left relatively intact, all things considered. Figured they'd be in far worse condition since they were on the DJD's naughty list.
Maybe they just didn't have time? Maybe something else happened other than the DJD? Keep in mind what we're seeing are all hypotheses by the characters. For all we know the Autobots managed to kill everyone but Tarn, or that there were more Decepticons than those five. Maybe something else caused the ship to be disabled, like Brainstorm's device in Spotlight: Trailcutter and the DJD just waltzed in and trashed everyone when they're static.
 
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Old 2014-08-29, 05:08 AM   #37
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On a related note; surprised that Drift and Overlord's bodies we're left relatively intact, all things considered. Figured they'd be in far worse condition since they were on the DJD's naughty list.
It's not known if Drift is actually on the list, it's just assumed because of him being a defector and all. It's theoretically possible he's not on the list, either because they don't know Drift was Deadlock or perhaps because he's officially an Autobot. I think the latter is actually an option, given that Ambulon wasn't hunted down despite being at Delphi which was quite near DJD territory. (Of course, Pharma's deal with Tarn may have given Ambulon some protection.)
 
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Old 2014-08-29, 06:03 AM   #38
inflatable dalek
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In terms of how five beat 200 when they didn't instantly kill the Scavengers...


It's worth remembering we've previously seen them in action in the open on a planetary surface where their opponents could unleash everything they had at the DJD.

Fighting within the confines of a spaceship is a very different thing. Think of the original Alien, where the screenwriter didn't want to create an unbeatable monster, just to put a very tough one within an environment where it's prey would have limited options in terms of what they could do. Or the fight against Overlord, where despite there being more Autobots than he faced in Wreckers and him being unarmed he still was making good work through the crew before Magnus and Maximus intervened (IIRC the crew weren't using much in the way of energy weapons there, mainly going for physical attacks and pointy things, presumably because of the fear of damaging the ship).

So, times Overlord by five (at least), this time heavily armed and probably dedicated enough to not be bothered if they destroy the ship around them, fighting in a tight contained environment where the Autobots have to attack in small lines, and can't risk unleashing their full fire power too many wrong shots could blow up the Lost Light. That would be what gives them the edge once they've gotten aboard.

In terms of Rewind, if he stays around, I suspect the fact that he saw Chromedome's mistake kill everyone will create a tension to their relationship.

Mind, a big theme of this series is friendship and how it can act as a redemptive force, so I've little doubt they'll work through those differences.

Mind, I suspect it'll be more of a Sophie's Choice thing, bring back "Their" crew but they have to sacrifice Rewind to do it.
 
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Old 2014-08-29, 07:09 AM   #39
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Also, element of surprise. It's probably pretty important. The Scavengers, loser Decepticons as they are, had relatively ample time to prepare against the DJD and was able to set up a trap in the form of Grimlock -- Tarn was probably so arrogant he didn't even have the notion that the other loser Decepticons would even deign to set up a trap for him, or even have access to a bruiser like Grimlock or that giant thing Crankcase was piloting.

(And the DJD themselves were taken by surprise as well. They didn't manage to kill anyone but Flywheels, but it took some time for them to recover)

If the DJD did attack the Lost Light, they would be wholly unprepared. By the time the alarms went all AWOOGA AWOOGA the DJD would've been on board and probably slaughtered through a lot of the B-listers like Overlord did. Who would expect the DJD to come, anyway? The only difference is that Overlord didn't take the time to execute them or make sure they died before Maximus and Magnus interrupted. And while we only see two on-screen deaths with Overlord (Pipes and Rewind) further issues establish that there are several other casualties and Overlord's just playing around. The DJD are probably out for blood.

Of course, the question is why they were so crap against the Scavengers but other than the element of surprise you're just going to have to assume Krok has a really strong face.

And while the Lost Light is filled with war veterans, short of Ultra Magnus and former Wreckers Perceptor (who's more of a sniper anyway -- in actual physical combat against Overlord he was taken out pretty swiftly) and Whirl, I don't see who would really stand up against the DJD. Rodimus is a major character but doesn't seem to be stronger in battle than anyone. Drift will probably shit his pants and probably die in fear. Whatever Brainstorm could do it's liable to blow up in his face.

And assuming Magnus and Tarn has history, who knows what happened in the battle between them? There might not be a fight as Tarn goes, oh, "MINIMUS I AM ROLLER" or "MINIMUS I AM YOUR FATHER" or "MINIMUS I AM YOUR BROTHER DOMINUS"

(Maybe it's why Rewind survived? Tarn is Dominus Ambus instead of Roller like we all thought? Not inconceivable for Skids to know Dominus Ambus in the past.)

The other big hitters on board the Lost Light... Cyclonus is unaccounted for, and they never encountered Fortress Maximus or Skids in this alternate timeline.

That leaves people like Red Alert and Chromedome and Atomizer and Hoist and Trailcutter to fight against a bunch of Sixshot-level threats, and while I doubt they could take down two hundred like it's cakewalk, a combination of surprise, power levels and all those factors Dalek's lined up makes it pretty conceivable.
 
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Old 2014-08-29, 07:14 AM   #40
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Thats fine, but I think bringing back Rewind isn't a good move...it just undoes that whole turmoil he and Chromedome went through and personally I am just against undoing horrific events becasue a character/ relationship worked really well. Its just the worst and once you've done that and had all the cliche's of 'I know you but you're not the same/ getting to know each other all over again/mistrust/redemption/blah' where do you go?

I dunno, it just feels like the whole Spider-Man thing with Mary Jane and Brand New Day. Its just fiddling with something for shock value/ sales and it just feels wrong to me to tamper with one of MTMTE's most powerful moments. I know its only comics and these are shooty space robots, but still...I dunno, it just robs me of my emotional involvement in those characters and I don't like how it makes me feel. That may very well be the point, but having seen this kind of 'back from the dead' cobblers many times over elsewhere its just disappointing. Plus, it turns Rewind into a plot point. Boo.

Sometimes, you have to leave things behind and move on.

Also : I like the DJD and have no problems with them and when I saw that splash of them, it made me shudder! And like Dalek eloquently said, I can see how they overpowered the crew. Magnus clearly taken out by ripping Ambus out of the armour.

I like Nautica too. See Mr Furman, this is how you write female Transformers! They are not some mad psychopath transsexual experiment but just part of the mix and that is fine.

Why people have this hang up about sex in a techno-organic race of beings is beyond me...!
 

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